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High School Guide: Admissions, reviews, and advice

Started by wanderinggardener12 · · 👁 13 views · 1.9K replies

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Participants wanderinggardener12rowdyviper42Nicholas KingSusan JamesAlex Ross5goldenjackal43Rachel Jones8Michelle Ward3swiftbear86hiddenjackal17redridge13Larry Walker24Jason MorganAmanda Hughes37Christian Lee13dustymarlin10Jessica Chavez4Jamie Newman5Chloe Rodriguez74rowdypanther12Bryan Jones82Sarah James4Dana Diaz8copperpuma11 …
rowdypanther12 rowdypanther12 Regular
894 messages
joined Jul 2012
#81 ·
Susan James said:A 4.2 or 4.3🤔

He mentioned that it’s definitely better for a high school to see all four years of schooling rather than just two.
If you’re looking strictly at GPA (rather than actual knowledge), a school gets a much more realistic view of a student's progress over time if they look beyond just the last two years.

On one hand, kids can totally hit a wall during their teenage years and let everything they worked hard for slide, while others might finally find their footing just as high school applications are due.

There are so many students who arrive for tutoring in 7th or 8th grade without even knowing the basics, like reading comprehension or multiplication tables, just to try and save their grade and boost their average.
I really want to believe that kids will start waking up earlier and making up for those "lost" moments before it's too late.

4.2 😳
🤣
I won't even bother mentioning 7; the only thing worse than that score is his number of absences (though they might be justified, sending love to you, Doc)😂😂
Rachel Jones8 Rachel Jones8 Active Member
220 messages
joined Dec 2011
#82 ·
rowdypanther12 said:That’s actually why I think this approach works better—having one bad year only account for 25% instead of 50% feels much fairer.
Personally, I would have preferred being judged on my junior and senior years, where I barely scraped by with a C, rather than just looking at my freshman year and my later grades where I really struggled.😂

But honestly, there should be a way for students to pivot whenever they want. If they realize their current path isn't working, they should be able to switch majors and head in a new direction if they have the drive.
It used to feel like there was more flexibility here to balance school with a job, which gave people a real chance to pursue an education or change careers even into their 30s, no matter how tough things got.
With the way the current credit system is set up, that kind of work-study balance is pretty much gone.

True... but there's still that big turning point when they move from elementary to middle school. That’s when the pressure hits because you've got to start sweating those grades if you want to get into a good high school in a few years.
If we're looking at all six years, there really isn't much room for error. And let's be real—you can't force a kid to obsess over grades, and you definitely can't rely on teachers giving out handouts. I think this system actually makes it easier to achieve what matters: honest grading. It starts from day one without all that frantic scrambling later just to meet enrollment requirements...
Over those six years, you see who's actually capable, smart, or driven... even if they aren't perfect every single year. Plus, a lot of them won't qualify for those elite prep schools, which is probably for the best anyway.

but there definitely needs to be a way for kids to pivot and change direction whenever they want if they have the drive and interest.

For sure.
rowdypanther12 rowdypanther12 Regular
894 messages
joined Jul 2012
#83 ·
Man, if I’d just been among those top four students with all those honor roll certificates and awards, things might have gone differently 😂
I'm mostly kidding, but honestly, back in high school, I saw firsthand what happens when you mess up at thirteen or fourteen. And while Nicholas King says he doesn't really know which kids end up ruining their own prospects, I actually know quite a few. Even more than that, I know plenty of people who had parents who made some poor life choices early on, leading them to enroll in schools they didn't even have the grades for—but then those kids actually pulled themselves together during high school and started working hard.

(I don't love the phrase "ruining your future" because life is about so much more than just a career or a job, but it definitely limits your options and narrows your path)
Rachel Jones8 Rachel Jones8 Active Member
220 messages
joined Dec 2011
#84 ·
rowdypanther12 said:Man, if I’d just been among those top four students with all those honor roll certificates and awards, things might have gone differently 😂
I'm mostly kidding, but honestly, back in high school, I saw firsthand what happens when you mess up at thirteen or fourteen. And while Nicholas King says he doesn't really know which kids end up ruining their own prospects, I actually know quite a few. Even more than that, I know plenty of people who had parents who made some poor life choices early on, leading them to enroll in schools they didn't even have the grades for—but then those kids actually pulled themselves together during high school and started working hard.

(I don't love the phrase "ruining your future" because life is about so much more than just a career or a job, but it definitely limits your options and narrows your path)

It's true, you can definitely screw up at 13 or 14. You can even mess up later on; it's always an option.
But honestly, it's pretty hard to mess up between ages 6 and 12. I don't think a kid could go through all those years and get such a skewed impression of themselves that they struggle later, only to find out they're actually a genius. Or that someone who breezes through the early grades isn't actually cut out for a top-tier prep school. (Theoretically, sure, anything can happen).

In my opinion, those grades from 1st through 6th grade are a much more realistic indicator than whatever chaos happens during 7th and 8th.
A kid who isn't quite there academically usually knows by 6th grade, and they—along with their parents—won't be aiming for those elite private schools or high-end academies.
Nicholas King Nicholas King Regular
716 messages
joined Jan 2023
#85 ·
rowdypanther12 said:Man, if I’d just been among those top four students with all those honor roll certificates and awards, things might have gone differently 😂
I'm mostly kidding, but honestly, back in high school, I saw firsthand what happens when you mess up at thirteen or fourteen. And while Nicholas King says he doesn't really know which kids end up ruining their own prospects, I actually know quite a few. Even more than that, I know plenty of people who had parents who made some poor life choices early on, leading them to enroll in schools they didn't even have the grades for—but then those kids actually pulled themselves together during high school and started working hard.

(I don't love the phrase "ruining your future" because life is about so much more than just a career or a job, but it definitely limits your options and narrows your path)

First off, we started this whole discussion talking about "ruining an entire generation's future," and somehow—I don't know how—we've drifted into much milder territory.

Secondly—and this is the part that actually matters—I still haven't received a straight answer to my simple question: what is the fair and just way to handle kids who, for one reason or another, completely slack off during middle school? Every single time someone gets into a high school they didn't earn through their own merit, it means some other kid—who actually earned that spot with their hard work—gets pushed out. But, well, let's be honest, not everyone has parents with deep pockets or political connections.

There are certain academies where you can get in with lower scores. There are vocational schools where a "reformed" student can independently prepare for the SATs. There are ways to fix this—it’s just that, more often than not, it seems people would rather just pretend the middle school screw-ups never happened and sweep them under the rug...
Dana Diaz8 Dana Diaz8 Member
17 messages
joined Dec 2012
#86 ·
Rachel Jones8 said:It's true, you can definitely screw up at 13 or 14. You can even mess up later on; it's always an option.
But honestly, it's pretty hard to mess up between ages 6 and 12. I don't think a kid could go through all those years and get such a skewed impression of themselves that they struggle later, only to find out they're actually a genius. Or that someone who breezes through the early grades isn't actually cut out for a top-tier prep school. (Theoretically, sure, anything can happen).

In my opinion, those grades from 1st through 6th grade are a much more realistic indicator than whatever chaos happens during 7th and 8th.
A kid who isn't quite there academically usually knows by 6th grade, and they—along with their parents—won't be aiming for those elite private schools or high-end academies.

Just because you enroll in and graduate from an elite prep school doesn't mean you're some kind of genius. Honestly, all you need is a compliant attitude to survive there. ☕Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule!
Dana Diaz8 Dana Diaz8 Member
17 messages
joined Dec 2012
#87 ·
Nicholas King said:First off, we started this whole discussion talking about "ruining an entire generation's future," and somehow—I don't know how—we've drifted into much milder territory.

Secondly—and this is the part that actually matters—I still haven't received a straight answer to my simple question: what is the fair and just way to handle kids who, for one reason or another, completely slack off during middle school? Every single time someone gets into a high school they didn't earn through their own merit, it means some other kid—who actually earned that spot with their hard work—gets pushed out. But, well, let's be honest, not everyone has parents with deep pockets or political connections.

There are certain academies where you can get in with lower scores. There are vocational schools where a "reformed" student can independently prepare for the SATs. There are ways to fix this—it’s just that, more often than not, it seems people would rather just pretend the middle school screw-ups never happened and sweep them under the rug...

But what exactly does "bullshit" entail in this context? 😕
Rachel Jones8 Rachel Jones8 Active Member
220 messages
joined Dec 2011
#88 ·
Dana Diaz8 said:Just because you enroll in and graduate from an elite prep school doesn't mean you're some kind of genius. Honestly, all you need is a compliant attitude to survive there. ☕Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule!

Did I really say that?
But honestly, if you aren't sharp, getting through an elite high school is going to be a struggle. Especially at a place like Phillips Exeter.
And even if you *are* smart, you won't coast through if you're lazy and couldn't care less about studying. If you didn't learn how to hit the books during middle school, or if you never actually showed any interest or effort... basically, if you never proved you had what it takes, you're stuck.je
rowdypanther12 rowdypanther12 Regular
894 messages
joined Jul 2012
#89 ·
Nicholas King said:First off, we started this whole discussion talking about "ruining an entire generation's future," and somehow—I don't know how—we've drifted into much milder territory.

Secondly—and this is the part that actually matters—I still haven't received a straight answer to my simple question: what is the fair and just way to handle kids who, for one reason or another, completely slack off during middle school? Every single time someone gets into a high school they didn't earn through their own merit, it means some other kid—who actually earned that spot with their hard work—gets pushed out. But, well, let's be honest, not everyone has parents with deep pockets or political connections.

There are certain academies where you can get in with lower scores. There are vocational schools where a "reformed" student can independently prepare for the SATs. There are ways to fix this—it’s just that, more often than not, it seems people would rather just pretend the middle school screw-ups never happened and sweep them under the rug...

What about the three-year programs? And do you honestly think a 15 or 16-year-old is capable of teaching themselves advanced placement material? 😕Especially subjects their specific school doesn't even offer. 🤷
We shouldn't just ignore the problem, but we shouldn't create a barrier that almost nobody can overcome either.
And why couldn't everyone go to a preparatory academy if they wanted to? 🤷
That’s how it used to be a long time ago. If someone wants to try, let them, and if they can't hack it, they can switch to a less demanding school later.
Besides, not everyone wants to aim for a top-tier academy anyway. 🤷
Dana Diaz8 Dana Diaz8 Member
17 messages
joined Dec 2012
#90 ·
I don't know what to tell you. Some things just never change, do they? It’s the same old cycle, over and over again. Why does everyone act so surprised when the inevitable happens? Honestly, I'm just exhausted by the whole thing. kaže:
Did I actually write that?
Look, if you aren't exactly a genius, surviving high school is going to be an uphill battle. Especially if you end up at one of those elite prep schools where the pressure is relentless. And honestly? Even the kids who think they're smarter than everyone else aren't going to breeze through it that easily either. je He might be brilliant, sure, but he’s lazy and has zero interest in actually hitting the books. If he hasn't figured out how to study by the end of sixth grade—if he hasn't shown any genuine curiosity or passion for a subject, or if his grades are just trashed because he simply refuses to try—then what are we looking at? Basically, if he hasn't found a way to actually demonstrate that intelligence of his, does it even matter?

That’s just how I saw it.

Look, I agree that laziness and pure negligence will absolutely ruin you, but I’m still standing by my point: you don't need to be some kind of genius just to graduate high school, and finishing one certainly doesn't turn you into an overnight prodigy. I know plenty of people who went the vocational route—think trade schools or technical programs—who ended up being far more skilled and capable in their careers than those who spent four years in a traditional prep school. Does a diploma really define your intellect? Not always. I know a few seasoned tradespeople myself—guys who put in three years of solid vocational training—and I have to point to my neighbor, a master carpenter, whose skills are on another level. Honestly, most high school grads or even specialized vocational students would be absolutely embarrassed standing next to him. Even I’d feel a bit outclassed. I spent exactly one year studying geometry in high school, but unlike most people, I actually know how to apply what I learned. That’s the distinction between me and the straight-A types—the techies and the prep school kids who can recite formulas but couldn't solve a real-world problem if their lives depended on it. In my view, the ability to actually *use* knowledge is the only thing that matters if you want to survive in the job market, even if employers are too blind to value it. It seems to me that parents constantly push their kids toward those elite private academies because some outdated social standard convinced them it’s the only path to success. They think sending a kid to a top-tier preparatory school is a guaranteed ticket to stardom, but they’re dead wrong. Why can't we just let kids decide which path they want to take? We should let them make their own choice first, and then—only after they've weighed the options—offer our support, some actual advice, and maybe help them pivot toward a trade or a vocational program if we see they're heading for a dead end.
Nicholas King Nicholas King Regular
716 messages
joined Jan 2023
#91 ·
rowdypanther12 said:What about the three-year programs? And do you honestly think a 15 or 16-year-old is capable of teaching themselves advanced placement material? 😕Especially subjects their specific school doesn't even offer. 🤷
We shouldn't just ignore the problem, but we shouldn't create a barrier that almost nobody can overcome either.
And why couldn't everyone go to a preparatory academy if they wanted to? 🤷
That’s how it used to be a long time ago. If someone wants to try, let them, and if they can't hack it, they can switch to a less demanding school later.
Besides, not everyone wants to aim for a top-tier academy anyway. 🤷

And why on earth should the "community" foot the bill for some "15 or 16-year-old" who—let's be honest here—spent middle school messing around, only to suddenly decide, just when it’s too late, to start grinding away at prep work like a scholar? Even if funding for these things were unlimited—which it isn't—where is the logic in that?

How many of these "hidden geniuses" exist—kids who played around way too much during their elementary years? What percentage of the total population are we even talking about here?

and why can't everyone go to prep school? everyone who wants to? 🤷

Are you joking?

Since when was that ever the case? Since when did high-tier prep schools have unlimited enrollment quotas?

Even now, with strict enrollment caps and high GPA requirements, barely three months into the semester, heaps of kids and their parents are starting to realize they simply aren't cut out for it—yet you seem to think it's wise to let every single child—and especially every self-important parent—just "give it a shot" at an elite academy, and then what happens when they fail???

BTW, by that logic, should we also set unlimited quotas for universities "for anyone who wants to go"? If the answer is no, then what exactly is your solution for all those high school graduates who won't qualify for college?
rowdypanther12 rowdypanther12 Regular
894 messages
joined Jul 2012
#92 ·
I’m being completely serious here. Go ahead and enroll—if you can keep up with the curriculum, great; if not, you can always switch to a less demanding school.
The same goes for universities.
Education should be accessible to anyone who actually wants it.
Nicholas King Nicholas King Regular
716 messages
joined Jan 2023
#93 ·
rowdypanther12 said:I’m being completely serious here. Go ahead and enroll—if you can keep up with the curriculum, great; if not, you can always switch to a less demanding school.
The same goes for universities.
Education should be accessible to anyone who actually wants it.

So, let's just have everyone enroll in whatever they feel like, shall we? And the taxpayers will foot the bill for all of it—right up until the moment it becomes painfully obvious to everyone involved that those enrollments were a complete waste of time. And that realization? It usually takes years upon years upon years...

I suppose if I were to ask where the funding for this particular brand of "education" comes from—given that its entire foundation rests on waiting for people to eventually realize they are either incompetent, lazy, or simply unsuited for schooling—I would just be met with the usual collection of tired platitudes about how there is plenty of money out there, it's just being mismanaged.

In my view, there is no more egregious waste of taxpayer dollars than indulging every whim, every little daydream, and every academic utopia dreamt up by students and their parents. We can blame Coelho for all of this, I guess: the idea that if you just wish hard enough for an education, the whole world will somehow conspire to make it happen... as if that's how reality works.

Why is it such an insurmountable challenge to simply admit the truth? There are foolish kids, there are lazy kids, and there are kids who simply aren't cut out for certain paths—no matter how much they, or perhaps even more so, their parents might want them to be.
rowdypanther12 rowdypanther12 Regular
894 messages
joined Jul 2012
#94 ·
But why would it take years? 🤷 You can see things become very clear and obvious within the first year or so.
Honestly, this elitist attitude toward education is exactly what landed us where we are today.
Rachel Jones8 Rachel Jones8 Active Member
220 messages
joined Dec 2011
#95 ·
Dana Diaz8 said:
I don't know what to tell you. Some things just never change, do they? It’s the same old cycle, over and over again. Why does everyone act so surprised when the inevitable happens? Honestly, I'm just exhausted by the whole thing. kaže:
Did I actually write that?
Look, if you aren't exactly a genius, surviving high school is going to be an uphill battle. Especially if you end up at one of those elite prep schools where the pressure is relentless. And honestly? Even the kids who think they're smarter than everyone else aren't going to breeze through it that easily either. je He might be brilliant, sure, but he’s lazy and has zero interest in actually hitting the books. If he hasn't figured out how to study by the end of sixth grade—if he hasn't shown any genuine curiosity or passion for a subject, or if his grades are just trashed because he simply refuses to try—then what are we looking at? Basically, if he hasn't found a way to actually demonstrate that intelligence of his, does it even matter?

That’s just how I saw it.

Look, I agree that laziness and pure negligence will absolutely ruin you, but I’m still standing by my point: you don't need to be some kind of genius just to graduate high school, and finishing one certainly doesn't turn you into an overnight prodigy. I know plenty of people who went the vocational route—think trade schools or technical programs—who ended up being far more skilled and capable in their careers than those who spent four years in a traditional prep school. Does a diploma really define your intellect? Not always. I know a few seasoned tradespeople myself—guys who put in three years of solid vocational training—and I have to point to my neighbor, a master carpenter, whose skills are on another level. Honestly, most high school grads or even specialized vocational students would be absolutely embarrassed standing next to him. Even I’d feel a bit outclassed. I spent exactly one year studying geometry in high school, but unlike most people, I actually know how to apply what I learned. That’s the distinction between me and the straight-A types—the techies and the prep school kids who can recite formulas but couldn't solve a real-world problem if their lives depended on it. In my view, the ability to actually *use* knowledge is the only thing that matters if you want to survive in the job market, even if employers are too blind to value it. It seems to me that parents constantly push their kids toward those elite private academies because some outdated social standard convinced them it’s the only path to success. They think sending a kid to a top-tier preparatory school is a guaranteed ticket to stardom, but they’re dead wrong. Why can't we just let kids decide which path they want to take? We should let them make their own choice first, and then—only after they've weighed the options—offer our support, some actual advice, and maybe help them pivot toward a trade or a vocational program if we see they're heading for a dead end.

You got it wrong.
I agree laziness and neglect lead to ruin, but I still maintain you don't need to be a genius to graduate high school, nor does graduating make you some kind of mastermind.

But can't someone just be dumb, finish high school, and stay just as dumb... so what?
You can even finish college without being super smart. You just can't get people into certain universities if they didn't perform well earlier, while those who did perform better get in.
I know plenty of people who went to vocational school and then turned out to be way more skilled and sharper at college or on the job than the kids from prep schools.

Sure, there are always people taking the long or difficult route.
Nobody's claiming that kids passing middle school with straight A's are necessarily geniuses... but some kind of selection process has to happen.
I also know a few tradesmen (three-year programs), specifically my neighbor who's a carpenter—he could honestly put both prep school grads and vocational students to shame (myself included). The guy had one year of geometry in school, but he knows how to actually apply it, which is the real deal. Unlike the bookworms (whether they're vocational or prep school types), he actually uses what he learned, and applying knowledge is what matters most when you want to compete in the workforce (even if employers don't appreciate it).

And what was your point there?
The guy picked a trade, became an expert at it, and is a great craftsman. Was he supposed to go the academic route instead, or what?
Obviously, you have to apply what you know... and being good at your job means applying that knowledge. But to finish high school and college, you still have to study and pass exams.
I think parents push their kids toward prep schools because someone shoved the idea in their heads that it's the only way to success, making them think their kid will become a superstar instantly, but they're wrong.
Kids should be allowed to decide which school they want to attend. Once they make a choice, parents should support them, offer advice, and maybe even help them pivot to a different path if needed.

Yeah, all parents are clueless.
It doesn't occur to them that the kids are often the ones choosing the prep school route—either because they can (they have the grades) or because they have no idea what else to do.
goldenjackal43 goldenjackal43 Newcomer
8 messages
joined Aug 2011
#96 ·
Dana Diaz8 said:
I don't know what to tell you. Some things just never change, do they? It’s the same old cycle, over and over again. Why does everyone act so surprised when the inevitable happens? Honestly, I'm just exhausted by the whole thing. kaže:
Did I actually write that?
Look, if you aren't exactly a genius, surviving high school is going to be an uphill battle. Especially if you end up at one of those elite prep schools where the pressure is relentless. And honestly? Even the kids who think they're smarter than everyone else aren't going to breeze through it that easily either. je He might be brilliant, sure, but he’s lazy and has zero interest in actually hitting the books. If he hasn't figured out how to study by the end of sixth grade—if he hasn't shown any genuine curiosity or passion for a subject, or if his grades are just trashed because he simply refuses to try—then what are we looking at? Basically, if he hasn't found a way to actually demonstrate that intelligence of his, does it even matter?

That’s just how I saw it.

Look, I agree that laziness and pure negligence will absolutely ruin you, but I’m still standing by my point: you don't need to be some kind of genius just to graduate high school, and finishing one certainly doesn't turn you into an overnight prodigy. I know plenty of people who went the vocational route—think trade schools or technical programs—who ended up being far more skilled and capable in their careers than those who spent four years in a traditional prep school. Does a diploma really define your intellect? Not always. I know a few seasoned tradespeople myself—guys who put in three years of solid vocational training—and I have to point to my neighbor, a master carpenter, whose skills are on another level. Honestly, most high school grads or even specialized vocational students would be absolutely embarrassed standing next to him. Even I’d feel a bit outclassed. I spent exactly one year studying geometry in high school, but unlike most people, I actually know how to apply what I learned. That’s the distinction between me and the straight-A types—the techies and the prep school kids who can recite formulas but couldn't solve a real-world problem if their lives depended on it. In my view, the ability to actually *use* knowledge is the only thing that matters if you want to survive in the job market, even if employers are too blind to value it. It seems to me that parents constantly push their kids toward those elite private academies because some outdated social standard convinced them it’s the only path to success. They think sending a kid to a top-tier preparatory school is a guaranteed ticket to stardom, but they’re dead wrong. Why can't we just let kids decide which path they want to take? We should let them make their own choice first, and then—only after they've weighed the options—offer our support, some actual advice, and maybe help them pivot toward a trade or a vocational program if we see they're heading for a dead end.

See, there’s the double standard. You argue that someone can excel in a trade school and that prep schools aren't the only path to success, yet you seem to treat graduates from those elite academies as if they are one monolithic, superior group.

The reality is this: if someone successfully navigates a rigorous preparatory academy, they possess a certain baseline level of intelligence compared to the average student. It doesn't mean they are a genius, nor does it mean they are inherently smarter than everyone in a technical program, but if they can handle that academic workload, they could likely manage most vocational curricula as well (granted, there are niche trades requiring highly specific talents). The reverse isn't necessarily true, though I suspect a significant number of talented trade students could succeed in a top-tier prep school if they applied themselves accordingly.

I also know several master craftsmen—people who finished three-year programs—and I’m thinking specifically of my neighbor, a carpenter, whose skills could put both prep school grads and trade specialists alike to shame (myself included).

Fair enough. On the flip side, I know one particular prep school graduate who could make any trade specialist, any vocational instructor, and even most academy professors look incompetent by comparison. I hope you see now why these individual anecdotes are completely irrelevant to the core of this discussion.
Sarah James4 Sarah James4 Active Member
102 messages
joined Dec 2012
#97 ·
Nicholas King said:So, let's just have everyone enroll in whatever they feel like, shall we? And the taxpayers will foot the bill for all of it—right up until the moment it becomes painfully obvious to everyone involved that those enrollments were a complete waste of time. And that realization? It usually takes years upon years upon years...

I suppose if I were to ask where the funding for this particular brand of "education" comes from—given that its entire foundation rests on waiting for people to eventually realize they are either incompetent, lazy, or simply unsuited for schooling—I would just be met with the usual collection of tired platitudes about how there is plenty of money out there, it's just being mismanaged.

In my view, there is no more egregious waste of taxpayer dollars than indulging every whim, every little daydream, and every academic utopia dreamt up by students and their parents. We can blame Coelho for all of this, I guess: the idea that if you just wish hard enough for an education, the whole world will somehow conspire to make it happen... as if that's how reality works.

Why is it such an insurmountable challenge to simply admit the truth? There are foolish kids, there are lazy kids, and there are kids who simply aren't cut out for certain paths—no matter how much they, or perhaps even more so, their parents might want them to be.

They exist, right?

That’s on them and their parents, not the government.

We'll never shake this mindset of the state acting like a parent that handles everything and decides everything... then we wonder why nobody takes personal responsibility.

Education should be equal and accessible to everyone. Standards need to be the same for everybody (SATs, ACTs, national standards, etc.). Whatever someone chooses regarding the public school system will affect their life later—lower standard of living, fewer opportunities, etc. That's the individual's responsibility, not the government's job to tell a 14-year-old, "Hey, you're at this level, so you go here." The government's duty is just to provide the schooling (equally and under the same criteria) to everyone.

The Constitution (looks like Article 6, I think) clearly states that everyone has a right to free education (basic mandatory) that is available to all and under equal conditions... In my opinion, trying to track students starting at 14—and now even as early as 10 or 11—doesn't meet those constitutional requirements.
Sarah James4 Sarah James4 Active Member
102 messages
joined Dec 2012
#98 ·
rowdypanther12 said:But why would it take years? 🤷 You can see things become very clear and obvious within the first year or so.
Honestly, this elitist attitude toward education is exactly what landed us where we are today.

Exactly. Thanks for putting that so well.
Nicholas King Nicholas King Regular
716 messages
joined Jan 2023
#99 ·
I suppose I should probably start by saying that I don't usually take to these forums to air my grievances—it’s just not really my style—but lately, I’ve found myself feeling rather compelled to address certain... let's call them "unfortunate developments" regarding the current state of things. It feels like every time I turn around, there is some new attempt to chip away at the fundamental principles laid out in our Constitution—which, if we are being honest, is the only thing keeping this whole chaotic experiment from falling apart entirely. It's frustrating, really. I mean, I know everyone has an opinion, but there seems to be a growing trend of people just ignoring the actual framework we agreed upon. It’s almost as if the rules only apply when they are convenient for one side or the other—which, I guess, is exactly what we were warned about. I find myself constantly hedging my bets on whether we can actually course-correct, or if we are simply drifting toward something much more disorganized. Maybe I'm being too cynical? Perhaps. But looking at the way institutions are being handled lately, it’s hard not to feel a bit heated about the lack of consistency. kaže:
The Constitution—specifically Article 65, if I’m reading my memory correctly—lays it out pretty clearly: everyone is entitled to free education. It's supposed to be mandatory at the elementary level, accessible to everyone, and... well, it's meant to be equitable. If we were operating under a level playing field... The way they’re handling vocational tracking—starting kids at 14—is one thing, but pushing that age down to 10 or 11? It just doesn't sit right with me. Honestly, I don't think it even meets the basic standards set by our Constitution.

Could you possibly walk me through the specific components that make up an admissions policy—and, if I’m being honest, which one actually carries the most weight? And yet—this applies to absolutely every single child.From the specific selection criteria all the way down to how the tender was actually publicized—does this whole mess violate the cited section of the Constitution? 😕 "Equal educational opportunities" doesn't mean that everyone gets a free pass into a top-tier prep school or a prestigious university—it’s just not that simple, I suppose. What it actually means—if we are being precise about it—is that everyone should be standing on the same starting line, facing the exact same set of rules and hurdles when they compete for those spots. It's about fairness in the competition itself, not a guarantee of the outcome.

The only thing truly undermining the sense of equality here—and I really mean this—is how certain people are framing parental connections. They aren't just presenting them as standard family ties; they’re going so far as to suggest they are some sort of miraculous, life-saving remedy for children who are struggling. It's a bit much, I guess, and it honestly skews the entire debate.

Ultimately, this falls squarely on their own shoulders—and honestly, on the shoulders of their parents—rather than being some massive obligation for the federal government to step in and fix.

Doesn’t it feel like this entire sentence is at war with the idea that the government should be stepping in to fix the mess left by lazy, entitled kids? It’s—if I’m being honest—a total joke to act as if we can just ignore the fact that responsibility lies squarely with the parents, yet somehow expect the state (which, let’s be clear, is actually just the taxpayers) to foot the bill for parental negligence.
Rachel Jones8 Rachel Jones8 Active Member
220 messages
joined Dec 2011
#100 ·
rowdypanther12 said:But why would it take years? 🤷 You can see things become very clear and obvious within the first year or so.
Honestly, this elitist attitude toward education is exactly what landed us where we are today.

Hmm, every single year a massive wave of kids graduates high school... and everyone wants to go to college... should we just open the doors for everyone regardless of their grades and let them all in? Where would they even go? Where do they sit? How many professors would we need to hire just so everyone gets that one shot at freshman year?
And then next year, there's another batch of freshmen. So we'd have to let everyone study every year... build more campuses (meaning expand everything and hire three times the current faculty), just for 75% of them to drop out after the first year anyway?
Think that's actually doable? Or even a good idea?
Same goes for prep schools... if everyone needs to be in a prep school, we'd have to build new ones first since nobody fits in the current ones.
And then what happens to all those "almost" students who just wasted years instead of learning a skill? Are we really going to pay for them to go back later to become mechanics or hairstylists on the taxpayer's dime?
Honestly, I’d do the opposite—maybe do three years of trade school first... learn how to actually do something (just in case college isn't for you), then hit prep school, then head to university. 😁

Sarah James4 said:They exist, right?

That’s on them and their parents, not the government.

We'll never shake this mindset of the state acting like a parent that handles everything and decides everything... then we wonder why nobody takes personal responsibility.

Education should be equal and accessible to everyone. Standards need to be the same for everybody (SATs, ACTs, national standards, etc.). Whatever someone chooses regarding the public school system will affect their life later—lower standard of living, fewer opportunities, etc. That's the individual's responsibility, not the government's job to tell a 14-year-old, "Hey, you're at this level, so you go here." The government's duty is just to provide the schooling (equally and under the same criteria) to everyone.

The Constitution (looks like Article 6, I think) clearly states that everyone has a right to free education (basic mandatory) that is available to all and under equal conditions... In my opinion, trying to track students starting at 14—and now even as early as 10 or 11—doesn't meet those constitutional requirements.

Aren't they? 🤔

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