My eternal self

It has been quite some time since my last update. In the interval since we last spoke, my life circumstances have undergone a profound transformation. I have experienced significant shifts on a fundamental, physical level. I have unlearned the habit of being tethered to this world—the constant attachment to money, success, and power—and by deepening my faith, I have used religion to find true meaning in the very things I write about.
The spiritual awakening I’ve experienced prompted me to unconsciously let certain people drift out of my life, while simultaneously deepening connections with others who opened up to me or simply stepped into my path. To be clear, looking at things from a purely material standpoint, everything hasn't been perfect. I have faced some heavy setbacks. I had to endure certain sacrifices, letting go of my old life to make room for the new. Yet, I have embraced those struggles too. They are essential parts of the reality I chose so that I could become who I am meant to be, allowing me to ignite that eternal flame within and live by its light.

I finally realized that I spent my entire life trying to reach some distant destination, chasing happiness at the finish line instead of actually enjoying the journey itself. For me, the process was always a chore, while the goal promised a happiness that either never arrived or vanished almost instantly. Even my actions in the physical world were always geared toward some "greater" objective. I see now how much I was mistaken. It was always: just finish high school, just get through college, just land a job, just find a partner, just get married, just have kids, just earn this much or buy that... and *then* I will be happy. A third of my life was spent merely waiting for the next thing. Now that I have achieved those milestones only to realize the emptiness within them, I feel as though I have finally woken up. This doesn't mean there was no point in doing those things, nor does it mean I should have sat around doing nothing for years. Quite the opposite—I needed to be active and engaged. It was simply that the journey itself should have been the reward, not just a means to an end. Today, I strive to do things for their own sake. If I read, I read for the sake of reading, not to acquire knowledge or to prove I am smarter than someone else. If I write, I write because I love the act of writing, not to pen the greatest novel ever written or to seek praise and glorification from readers.

I work for the sake of working, I live to truly live, I wake up to enjoy the morning, I run for the joy of running, I write because I love to write, I drive for the sake of driving, I socialize to connect, and I love simply for the sake of love. I have learned to observe beauty in the constant flux of the world and the perpetual evolution of myself.

Drew Gray4....great topic here 😁

Anyway, since I started hanging out in this sub and reading through all these accounts of enlightenment, spiritual awakenings, and wild visions... it feels to me like it all eventually boils down to just grasping how simple life actually is. It’s about accepting whatever comes our way without getting too caught up in endless philosophical gymnastics or trying to run away from who we really are 🤷

I'm definitely not trying to offend anyone; if anything, reading these threads is actually quite motivating for me personally 😉

crimsonfox26 said:Drew Gray4....great topic here 😁

Anyway, since I started hanging out in this sub and reading through all these accounts of enlightenment, spiritual awakenings, and wild visions... it feels to me like it all eventually boils down to just grasping how simple life actually is. It’s about accepting whatever comes our way without getting too caught up in endless philosophical gymnastics or trying to run away from who we really are 🤷

I'm definitely not trying to offend anyone; if anything, reading these threads is actually quite motivating for me personally 😉

That highlighted point is the core observation: accepting what life brings is synonymous with achieving a certain spiritual tranquility.

Some individuals navigate this through a belief in the supernatural, divine events, or higher beings, while others remain fully prepared to accept reality without any such framework.

This explains why only a select few truly achieve inner peace or reach a state of being "awake"... and if you think about it, they are incredibly rare, appearing across all spectrums of both the faithful and the atheists.

This phenomenon suggests that neither organized religion nor spiritual movements serve as a guarantee for a meaningful spiritual life. If they did, we would see a vast majority of Americans who identify as religious enjoying total inner peace, yet we can clearly see that is not the case.

urbanwalker72 said:That highlighted point is the core observation: accepting what life brings is synonymous with achieving a certain spiritual tranquility.

Some individuals navigate this through a belief in the supernatural, divine events, or higher beings, while others remain fully prepared to accept reality without any such framework.

This explains why only a select few truly achieve inner peace or reach a state of being "awake"... and if you think about it, they are incredibly rare, appearing across all spectrums of both the faithful and the atheists.

This phenomenon suggests that neither organized religion nor spiritual movements serve as a guarantee for a meaningful spiritual life. If they did, we would see a vast majority of Americans who identify as religious enjoying total inner peace, yet we can clearly see that is not the case.

That doesn't mean the principles found within spiritual teachings aren't essential tools for getting there. The people who truly manage to find that kind of inner stability—those who have actually achieved it—tend to work toward it systematically and with purpose, almost always through meditation.

Drew Gray4 said:Hey everyone, just wanted to check in briefly. It’s not that I’ve gone MIA on you, I truly just haven't been able to find a spare moment to sit down and write.

Work has been consuming more than a week straight now, draining a massive amount of my energy and time from sunrise to sunset, and when the weekend finally rolls around, my priority is spending quality time with my kid. This past week brought plenty of tests; I handled some well, and others were a bit more of a struggle, but regardless, I'm no longer living purely on autopilot. Now, if I do happen to slip back into those old subconscious patterns, I can "wake up" from that state almost immediately and return to acting from a place of conscious awareness—meaning I'm not being driven by negative emotions like anger or jealousy anymore.

Of course, nothing is perfect, but I’m accepting things exactly as they are. I intentionally shared quite a bit about myself, and I noticed some people interpreted my illness in a different light. I don't really know what to say to that; I was honest about everything. Yes, I am ill, I am undergoing treatment, and I am taking medication—I've actually changed my prescriptions quite a bit recently. On top of all that, I manage a high-responsibility, mentally taxing job with long hours, all while providing for my family, supporting my parents, and working incredibly hard to balance it all. Right now, my feet are firmly planted on the ground. I'm not falling for any illusions regarding reality; self-awareness doesn't necessitate immediate change, though it could, and it will be interesting to see how things unfold and what my true self decides to choose. To be honest, I don't see any signs of mania or bipolar phases in myself. That said, I'm staying cautious and not forcing anything. Life feels just as heavy as it did before, except for me—I've become spiritually unburdened, and because I'm carrying so little spiritual baggage despite all these hardships, life feels much easier to navigate.

It’s a beautiful day today; make sure to get out into nature and engage all your senses.

With all due respect to your insights—and please don't take this the wrong way—it truly warmed my heart to read how you’ve emerged from that mental hell directly into the light. Purely out of curiosity, though, because I'm fascinated by the link between consciousness and the brain... I can't help but ask: did such a radical shift coincide with a change in your medication?

Besides, you were pretty vague when you replied to Maria Fox4—who exactly fell in love with your soul?

Sandra Morgan2: No, I haven't swapped them out in three years. I went through them pretty frequently during those first three years... and generally speaking, yeah, they wouldn't have lasted nearly this long.

To address the question I missed earlier... I'm not exactly an expert at articulating things in such a spiritual sense, nor have I devoured enough literature to pull sophisticated phrases out of thin air. What I was trying to convey is that I've finally learned to love myself. I’ve come to realize my own depth—an unspeakable depth that was previously obscured by my physical appearance, which I used to loathe and feel ashamed of (I'm referring to my looks, my financial standing, and things of that nature).

crimsonfox26, you hit the nail on the head: acceptance. It's about not fighting everything around you or within you. Life isn't a battle. So many people pay a heavy price for that mindset because they view everything as a struggle, and when you frame life as a fight, there's always the risk of losing. But personally, I can't lose anything, because I don't own anything besides myself—and since I am timeless, I can't possibly lose who I am. Something like that. :-)

Drew Gray4 said:Sandra Morgan2: No, I haven't swapped them out in three years. I went through them pretty frequently during those first three years... and generally speaking, yeah, they wouldn't have lasted nearly this long.

To address the question I missed earlier... I'm not exactly an expert at articulating things in such a spiritual sense, nor have I devoured enough literature to pull sophisticated phrases out of thin air. What I was trying to convey is that I've finally learned to love myself. I’ve come to realize my own depth—an unspeakable depth that was previously obscured by my physical appearance, which I used to loathe and feel ashamed of (I'm referring to my looks, my financial standing, and things of that nature).

crimsonfox26, you hit the nail on the head: acceptance. It's about not fighting everything around you or within you. Life isn't a battle. So many people pay a heavy price for that mindset because they view everything as a struggle, and when you frame life as a fight, there's always the risk of losing. But personally, I can't lose anything, because I don't own anything besides myself—and since I am timeless, I can't possibly lose who I am. Something like that. :-)

Should you decide to pursue reading, I would be happy to suggest some titles; however, my intention would not be to provide you with catchy phrases, but rather to help you navigate away from logical paradoxes..

Drew Gray4 said:Sandra Morgan2: No, I haven't swapped them out in three years. I went through them pretty frequently during those first three years... and generally speaking, yeah, they wouldn't have lasted nearly this long.

To address the question I missed earlier... I'm not exactly an expert at articulating things in such a spiritual sense, nor have I devoured enough literature to pull sophisticated phrases out of thin air. What I was trying to convey is that I've finally learned to love myself. I’ve come to realize my own depth—an unspeakable depth that was previously obscured by my physical appearance, which I used to loathe and feel ashamed of (I'm referring to my looks, my financial standing, and things of that nature).

crimsonfox26, you hit the nail on the head: acceptance. It's about not fighting everything around you or within you. Life isn't a battle. So many people pay a heavy price for that mindset because they view everything as a struggle, and when you frame life as a fight, there's always the risk of losing. But personally, I can't lose anything, because I don't own anything besides myself—and since I am timeless, I can't possibly lose who I am. Something like that. :-)

Exactly right.

I actually have a few good links regarding this topic.😉

urbanwalker72, go ahead and drop those reading recommendations; there are plenty of us interested in diving deeper.😁

Drew Gray4 said:Sandra Morgan2: No, I haven't swapped them out in three years. I went through them pretty frequently during those first three years... and generally speaking, yeah, they wouldn't have lasted nearly this long.

To address the question I missed earlier... I'm not exactly an expert at articulating things in such a spiritual sense, nor have I devoured enough literature to pull sophisticated phrases out of thin air. What I was trying to convey is that I've finally learned to love myself. I’ve come to realize my own depth—an unspeakable depth that was previously obscured by my physical appearance, which I used to loathe and feel ashamed of (I'm referring to my looks, my financial standing, and things of that nature).

crimsonfox26, you hit the nail on the head: acceptance. It's about not fighting everything around you or within you. Life isn't a battle. So many people pay a heavy price for that mindset because they view everything as a struggle, and when you frame life as a fight, there's always the risk of losing. But personally, I can't lose anything, because I don't own anything besides myself—and since I am timeless, I can't possibly lose who I am. Something like that. :-)

Whether life is a struggle really depends on the hand you're dealt. If you're married and have three kids, you don't have much of a choice until you get those children on their feet. You have to grind away at some company that you might hate, where the conditions are absolute garbage—where you're constantly being belittled or miserable. Though, technically, you shouldn't experience it as "misery." The true misery only hits at the end of the month when you pick up your paycheck and realize you won't even be able to buy your kids a decent backpack. They'll just have to carry their books in a plastic grocery bag.
Here's a fresh example of a real struggle: a young engineer colleague of mine just had twins ten days ago. And yesterday, his wife had surgery for anal cancer in Washington, D.C. Now, he and his wife are facing a brutal fight—just for basic survival.
Mind you, he has a good salary and his parents help him out. But if he were living like a hardline religious zealot like many people I know, it would be one massive, overwhelming struggle. 😢😲

And here is another case where maybe spirituality helped a family stay out of a mental asylum:

On top of all that nonsense, fate decides to throw this crap at you too:

The only people I've ever met who live without any kind of life struggle are these two:
But they aren't enlightened souls; they're mostly just idiots!

To a friend of mine, life isn't a struggle—it's just pure bullshit:

Benjamin Taylor6 said:Whether life is a struggle really depends on the hand you're dealt. If you're married and have three kids, you don't have much of a choice until you get those children on their feet. You have to grind away at some company that you might hate, where the conditions are absolute garbage—where you're constantly being belittled or miserable. Though, technically, you shouldn't experience it as "misery." The true misery only hits at the end of the month when you pick up your paycheck and realize you won't even be able to buy your kids a decent backpack. They'll just have to carry their books in a plastic grocery bag.
Here's a fresh example of a real struggle: a young engineer colleague of mine just had twins ten days ago. And yesterday, his wife had surgery for anal cancer in Washington, D.C. Now, he and his wife are facing a brutal fight—just for basic survival.
Mind you, he has a good salary and his parents help him out. But if he were living like a hardline religious zealot like many people I know, it would be one massive, overwhelming struggle. 😢😲

And here is another case where maybe spirituality helped a family stay out of a mental asylum:

On top of all that nonsense, fate decides to throw this crap at you too:

The only people I've ever met who live without any kind of life struggle are these two:
But they aren't enlightened souls; they're mostly just idiots!

To a friend of mine, life isn't a struggle—it's just pure bullshit:

These are quite interesting perspectives on existence; one would think they were so vastly different.

Benjamin Taylor6: I get that people are bitter about their circumstances. Some just brought it on themselves by choosing to view life as an endless uphill battle. And when you live like that, you end up fighting...

I don't want to overshare, but if you think six years of mental illness just appeared out of thin air, you’re mistaken. It’s the same with my own life—it has been a constant struggle just to maintain our family's basic existence (the way we’ve understood survival since early childhood), dealing with health issues in the immediate circle, pulling ourselves out of various messes, and things like that. Everyone has a story. There’s a book by Viktor Frankl—'Man's Search for Meaning'—about a man who found purpose even in the depths of Auschwitz. If you want to compare existential hardships, there will always be someone who had it worse than you.

Ultimately, I don't believe any of those people or children are actually starving. They aren't dying of hunger. At the very least, they could get a meal at a local soup kitchen and meet their most basic needs for existence—which, if we're talking about the bare essentials, is just food and water. Everything else is an upgrade—Maslow's hierarchy of needs, if I recall correctly from school. I might be caricaturing a bit here, but I hope you see my point.

Take Željko Mavrović, for example. He has a young daughter who, from what I gather, has cerebral palsy. If you look him up online—check out his interview on a major US Sunday morning news program—you'll see he isn't someone stuck in a victim mentality. He doesn't waste time asking "Why me?", "What did I do to God?", or "How can everyone else live normally?" while venting like most people do when tragedy strikes. Instead, he offers a profound, deeply considered reflection on everything he’s faced, from his boxing career to failed businesses and the fear of losing his child multiple times.

Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to check the links you sent because I'm at work, but I'm sure they all represent heavy burdens and difficult fates. However, a burden can be carried with grace if it's carried out of love. Out of a genuine love for life itself.

urbanwalker72: On the contrary, feel free to send them.

urbanwalker72 said:Should you decide to pursue reading, I would be happy to suggest some titles; however, my intention would not be to provide you with catchy phrases, but rather to help you navigate away from logical paradoxes..

I assume you’re probably planning to suggest reading this:

😁

Drew Gray4 said:Benjamin Taylor6: I get that people are bitter about their circumstances. Some just brought it on themselves by choosing to view life as an endless uphill battle. And when you live like that, you end up fighting...

I don't want to overshare, but if you think six years of mental illness just appeared out of thin air, you’re mistaken. It’s the same with my own life—it has been a constant struggle just to maintain our family's basic existence (the way we’ve understood survival since early childhood), dealing with health issues in the immediate circle, pulling ourselves out of various messes, and things like that. Everyone has a story. There’s a book by Viktor Frankl—'Man's Search for Meaning'—about a man who found purpose even in the depths of Auschwitz. If you want to compare existential hardships, there will always be someone who had it worse than you.

Ultimately, I don't believe any of those people or children are actually starving. They aren't dying of hunger. At the very least, they could get a meal at a local soup kitchen and meet their most basic needs for existence—which, if we're talking about the bare essentials, is just food and water. Everything else is an upgrade—Maslow's hierarchy of needs, if I recall correctly from school. I might be caricaturing a bit here, but I hope you see my point.

Take Željko Mavrović, for example. He has a young daughter who, from what I gather, has cerebral palsy. If you look him up online—check out his interview on a major US Sunday morning news program—you'll see he isn't someone stuck in a victim mentality. He doesn't waste time asking "Why me?", "What did I do to God?", or "How can everyone else live normally?" while venting like most people do when tragedy strikes. Instead, he offers a profound, deeply considered reflection on everything he’s faced, from his boxing career to failed businesses and the fear of losing his child multiple times.

Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to check the links you sent because I'm at work, but I'm sure they all represent heavy burdens and difficult fates. However, a burden can be carried with grace if it's carried out of love. Out of a genuine love for life itself.

urbanwalker72: On the contrary, feel free to send them.

I'm at work right now, so I'm typing this fast and it's probably full of typos. Anyway, I actually wrote about Frankl on my blog:

But I wrote it in a very depressing way! !!!!!!!!!!!

Otherwise, I was writing about Mavrović a few days ago:www.forum.hr/showthread.php?p=45315438

Benjamin Taylor6, haha, look at that—I guess I just happened to land on the exact same points by pure coincidence. And no, I haven't actually read your threads or posts, truly. :-) Regardless, I believe helping people through financial support is vital; I do what I can whenever the opportunity arises, especially participating in charity drives for sick children, though that’s not really the focus here. It’s all quite minor to me because I only give from my surplus, much like the biblical story of the widow offering her two small coins. I don't view it as some grand achievement that warrants any kind of glorification.

What truly matters is that we, as a civilization, forge a better future through a spiritual path and advance our collective consciousness. What good is a billionaire living in a skyscraper if he’s so miserable that he’s looking for a window to jump out of? Similarly, through some side work I used to do, I had the chance to enter some incredibly impoverished homes, yet they were filled with such laughter and sense of community that I was left absolutely stunned... it was beautiful. There was nothing like that in my own household.

Regarding material wealth, I have witnessed some truly paradoxical situations. You see people with several million dollars sitting in their bank accounts, yet they are popping antidepressants and losing sleep because they are terrified of losing it all—worried about market crashes or the collapse of the European Union. They are paralyzed by indecision over where to invest or what to do; the anxiety literally eats them alive. Then you have the opposite extreme: people who have nothing to eat and no jobs, which leads them to the exact same level of suffering...

It reminds me of that old tale about the Emperor searching for happiness, only for a wise man to tell him he would find it once he put on a poor man's shirt... only for the punchline to be that the man is naked and has no shirt to give. 🙂

I see you've reached 10,000 posts and are incredibly active on this forum; it’s great to see that. Personally, I’ve never felt the urge to write excessively, but with this thread, I simply wanted to share my feelings and reflections—things I felt were too important to just keep to myself.

Drew Gray4 said:Benjamin Taylor6, haha, look at that—I guess I just happened to land on the exact same points by pure coincidence. And no, I haven't actually read your threads or posts, truly. :-) Regardless, I believe helping people through financial support is vital; I do what I can whenever the opportunity arises, especially participating in charity drives for sick children, though that’s not really the focus here. It’s all quite minor to me because I only give from my surplus, much like the biblical story of the widow offering her two small coins. I don't view it as some grand achievement that warrants any kind of glorification.

What truly matters is that we, as a civilization, forge a better future through a spiritual path and advance our collective consciousness. What good is a billionaire living in a skyscraper if he’s so miserable that he’s looking for a window to jump out of? Similarly, through some side work I used to do, I had the chance to enter some incredibly impoverished homes, yet they were filled with such laughter and sense of community that I was left absolutely stunned... it was beautiful. There was nothing like that in my own household.

Regarding material wealth, I have witnessed some truly paradoxical situations. You see people with several million dollars sitting in their bank accounts, yet they are popping antidepressants and losing sleep because they are terrified of losing it all—worried about market crashes or the collapse of the European Union. They are paralyzed by indecision over where to invest or what to do; the anxiety literally eats them alive. Then you have the opposite extreme: people who have nothing to eat and no jobs, which leads them to the exact same level of suffering...

It reminds me of that old tale about the Emperor searching for happiness, only for a wise man to tell him he would find it once he put on a poor man's shirt... only for the punchline to be that the man is naked and has no shirt to give. 🙂

I see you've reached 10,000 posts and are incredibly active on this forum; it’s great to see that. Personally, I’ve never felt the urge to write excessively, but with this thread, I simply wanted to share my feelings and reflections—things I felt were too important to just keep to myself.

It’s really cool of you to open up and share something so beautiful with us. 🙂

Drew Gray4 said:Benjamin Taylor6, haha, look at that—I guess I just happened to land on the exact same points by pure coincidence. And no, I haven't actually read your threads or posts, truly. :-) Regardless, I believe helping people through financial support is vital; I do what I can whenever the opportunity arises, especially participating in charity drives for sick children, though that’s not really the focus here. It’s all quite minor to me because I only give from my surplus, much like the biblical story of the widow offering her two small coins. I don't view it as some grand achievement that warrants any kind of glorification.

What truly matters is that we, as a civilization, forge a better future through a spiritual path and advance our collective consciousness. What good is a billionaire living in a skyscraper if he’s so miserable that he’s looking for a window to jump out of? Similarly, through some side work I used to do, I had the chance to enter some incredibly impoverished homes, yet they were filled with such laughter and sense of community that I was left absolutely stunned... it was beautiful. There was nothing like that in my own household.

Regarding material wealth, I have witnessed some truly paradoxical situations. You see people with several million dollars sitting in their bank accounts, yet they are popping antidepressants and losing sleep because they are terrified of losing it all—worried about market crashes or the collapse of the European Union. They are paralyzed by indecision over where to invest or what to do; the anxiety literally eats them alive. Then you have the opposite extreme: people who have nothing to eat and no jobs, which leads them to the exact same level of suffering...

It reminds me of that old tale about the Emperor searching for happiness, only for a wise man to tell him he would find it once he put on a poor man's shirt... only for the punchline to be that the man is naked and has no shirt to give. 🙂

I see you've reached 10,000 posts and are incredibly active on this forum; it’s great to see that. Personally, I’ve never felt the urge to write excessively, but with this thread, I simply wanted to share my feelings and reflections—things I felt were too important to just keep to myself.

My colleagues and I have been hit by what I call the Jewish curse. It’s one of those things where you had it, and then suddenly, you don't. We went from a company that was actually solid back in the days of state-run industry to being absolute garbage now. As Karl Marx said: it isn't our consciousness that determines our being, but our material reality.
Personally, I have a massive allergy to all this talk about "helping people."
Again, thanks to Marx. See, my father spent twenty years working for free to help renovate the local waterfront. His labor was worth maybe $50,000, yet he walked away with about $3,000 in his pocket. In kind, mostly. 😢😲😁
While other dads were out fishing or tending to their olive groves, he was driven by this stubborn, pointless pride.
But hey, we should all be satisfied: at least he could spend his money on bourbon instead of model trains.😲

As a civilization, it’s important that we achieve a better future through a spiritual path—that we progress in awareness. What good is a billionaire’s skyscraper if they are so miserable inside that they're looking for the nearest window to jump out of? It was the same with side jobs; I used to step into these incredibly poor households, but there was so much laughter and sense of community that it left me breathless... such beautiful things. My own life hasn't seen nearly that much of it.

Regarding material wealth, I’ve truly seen the paradoxes. You have people with a few million dollars sitting in their bank accounts who are popping antidepressants and losing sleep because they're terrified of losing it all—terrified the dollar will collapse or the European Union will fall apart—not knowing where to invest or what to do, literally eaten alive by anxiety. Then you have the opposite extreme: people who have nothing to eat and no work, which leads them to the exact same level of suffering...

It reminds me of that story about the emperor searching for happiness, only for a wise man to tell him he'll be happy once he puts on a poor man's shirt... except the catch is the man is naked and doesn't even own a shirt. 🙂

If you ask me, it’s better to have a fat wallet than to be scavenging through the trash. I’m not trying to channel anyone's inner krishnamurtija U. g.:

I see you've racked up 10,000 posts—you’re practically a permanent fixture around here. It's impressive, really. Personally, I’ve never felt much of an urge to post constantly, but with this particular thread, I felt a sudden, pressing need to get my thoughts out there. There are certain reflections and feelings that just feel too vital to keep locked away inside my own head...

It’s the truth. Honestly, this whole thing—this absolute graphomania—has been gripping me for quite some time now!😁

Drew Gray4 said:Sandra Morgan2: No, I haven't swapped them out in three years. I went through them pretty frequently during those first three years... and generally speaking, yeah, they wouldn't have lasted nearly this long.

To address the question I missed earlier... I'm not exactly an expert at articulating things in such a spiritual sense, nor have I devoured enough literature to pull sophisticated phrases out of thin air. What I was trying to convey is that I've finally learned to love myself. I’ve come to realize my own depth—an unspeakable depth that was previously obscured by my physical appearance, which I used to loathe and feel ashamed of (I'm referring to my looks, my financial standing, and things of that nature).

crimsonfox26, you hit the nail on the head: acceptance. It's about not fighting everything around you or within you. Life isn't a battle. So many people pay a heavy price for that mindset because they view everything as a struggle, and when you frame life as a fight, there's always the risk of losing. But personally, I can't lose anything, because I don't own anything besides myself—and since I am timeless, I can't possibly lose who I am. Something like that. :-)

Phrases? Come on now... that wasn't very kind of you. You can find real depth and wisdom in plenty of books—spiritual or otherwise. They can be informative or even transformative, especially since many great works were written by people with highly developed spirits, high intelligence, and broad educations. We can learn so much from their experiences! Plus, as we know, you're actually writing a book yourself—that’s why you started this thread in the first place, right?

I've never felt the need to write extensively, but with this thread, I wanted to share my feelings and thoughts—things I feel are too important to just keep to myself.

I just wanted to say that by falling in love with myself, I realized my own depth—this unspeakable depth that was hidden behind the superficial physical level I used to inhabit, which I hated and felt ashamed of (referring to my looks, material status, and things like that).

So... what exactly is this "depth"?
What is it made of,
whose is it,
and who is it that discovered it?

When you squeeze an orange, you get orange juice.
An orange can't produce anything other than what is already inside it.

You can't squeeze an orange and get strawberry juice.

So, when you start squeezing a person, what comes out is exactly what they hold inside.
The public persona of a public figure is rarely the same as what lies within.

My questions are meant to squeeze you—to see what is truly inside you. Are you peaceful in the way most non-neurotic, mentally stable people are, or is your peace the kind that comes from true self-realization?

crimsonfox26 said:Exactly right.

I actually have a few good links regarding this topic.😉

urbanwalker72, go ahead and drop those reading recommendations; there are plenty of us interested in diving deeper.😁

Drew Gray4 said:Benjamin Taylor6: I get that people are bitter about their circumstances. Some just brought it on themselves by choosing to view life as an endless uphill battle. And when you live like that, you end up fighting...

I don't want to overshare, but if you think six years of mental illness just appeared out of thin air, you’re mistaken. It’s the same with my own life—it has been a constant struggle just to maintain our family's basic existence (the way we’ve understood survival since early childhood), dealing with health issues in the immediate circle, pulling ourselves out of various messes, and things like that. Everyone has a story. There’s a book by Viktor Frankl—'Man's Search for Meaning'—about a man who found purpose even in the depths of Auschwitz. If you want to compare existential hardships, there will always be someone who had it worse than you.

Ultimately, I don't believe any of those people or children are actually starving. They aren't dying of hunger. At the very least, they could get a meal at a local soup kitchen and meet their most basic needs for existence—which, if we're talking about the bare essentials, is just food and water. Everything else is an upgrade—Maslow's hierarchy of needs, if I recall correctly from school. I might be caricaturing a bit here, but I hope you see my point.

Take Željko Mavrović, for example. He has a young daughter who, from what I gather, has cerebral palsy. If you look him up online—check out his interview on a major US Sunday morning news program—you'll see he isn't someone stuck in a victim mentality. He doesn't waste time asking "Why me?", "What did I do to God?", or "How can everyone else live normally?" while venting like most people do when tragedy strikes. Instead, he offers a profound, deeply considered reflection on everything he’s faced, from his boxing career to failed businesses and the fear of losing his child multiple times.

Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to check the links you sent because I'm at work, but I'm sure they all represent heavy burdens and difficult fates. However, a burden can be carried with grace if it's carried out of love. Out of a genuine love for life itself.

urbanwalker72: On the contrary, feel free to send them.

If anyone is interested in exploring how the world's leading cognitive scientists and philosophers define the concept of the "self"—specifically whether such an entity can exist, or if your idea of an "eternal self" might be reconciled without falling into the trap of heavy dualism—I would suggest the following readings:

Available in English:

- Douglas Hofstadter: 'I Am a Strange Loop'
- Steven Pinker: 'The Blank Slate'

For those comfortable with the original English texts:

- Douglas Hofstadter and Daniel Dennett: 'Minds I'
- Daniel Dennett: 'Kinds of Mind'
- Steven Pinker: 'How the Mind Works'
- Ray Kurzweil: 'How to Create a Mind'
- Marvin Minsky: 'The Society of Mind'

Sandra Morgan2 said:Phrases? Come on now... that wasn't very kind of you. You can find real depth and wisdom in plenty of books—spiritual or otherwise. They can be informative or even transformative, especially since many great works were written by people with highly developed spirits, high intelligence, and broad educations. We can learn so much from their experiences! Plus, as we know, you're actually writing a book yourself—that’s why you started this thread in the first place, right?

I've never felt the need to write extensively, but with this thread, I wanted to share my feelings and thoughts—things I feel are too important to just keep to myself.

I just wanted to say that by falling in love with myself, I realized my own depth—this unspeakable depth that was hidden behind the superficial physical level I used to inhabit, which I hated and felt ashamed of (referring to my looks, material status, and things like that).

So... what exactly is this "depth"?
What is it made of,
whose is it,
and who is it that discovered it?

When you squeeze an orange, you get orange juice.
An orange can't produce anything other than what is already inside it.

You can't squeeze an orange and get strawberry juice.

So, when you start squeezing a person, what comes out is exactly what they hold inside.
The public persona of a public figure is rarely the same as what lies within.

My questions are meant to squeeze you—to see what is truly inside you. Are you peaceful in the way most non-neurotic, mentally stable people are, or is your peace the kind that comes from true self-realization?

I don't think it's quite that straightforward. When we discuss the concept of self-knowledge, self-reference is logically indispensable. Your analogy regarding the orange and its juice lacks that necessary element of self-reference.

If I were to draft a formal mathematical or logical definition of a self-referential system, I doubt anyone would bother reading it, so instead, I will rely on more familiar, illustrative examples:

Let's start with something simple:

Consider the statement: 'This sentence is false.'

Is this statement true or false? If it is true, then by its own definition, it is false. Conversely, if it is false, then it must be true.

Now, for something slightly more complex:

Imagine there is a town with only one male barber; let's assume all men in this town are regularly shaved. Some men shave themselves, while others go to the barber. We can establish a rule: The barber shaves all those, and only those, men who do not shave themselves. Given these parameters, we face a question: Does the barber shave himself?

As it turns out, the scenario described is actually impossible.

If the barber does not shave himself, then according to the rule, he must shave himself, because he is the one tasked with shaving everyone who doesn't shave themselves.
But if he does shave himself, then according to the rule, he must stop, because he no longer falls into the group of people he is permitted to shave.

Self-referential concepts inherently harbor paradoxes, regardless of the subject matter—a fact that was spectacularly proven through formal logic by Kurt Gödel and Gregory Chaitin.

Any system that possesses enough complexity to speak about itself must, by necessity, contain paradoxes.

Therefore, if you intend to logically analyze someone's self-discovery, your analysis must be built upon concepts involving self-reference, rather than the juice of an orange.

Good luck with your search. 😁

urbanwalker72 said:I don't think it's quite that straightforward. When we discuss the concept of self-knowledge, self-reference is logically indispensable. Your analogy regarding the orange and its juice lacks that necessary element of self-reference.

If I were to draft a formal mathematical or logical definition of a self-referential system, I doubt anyone would bother reading it, so instead, I will rely on more familiar, illustrative examples:

Let's start with something simple:

Consider the statement: 'This sentence is false.'

Is this statement true or false? If it is true, then by its own definition, it is false. Conversely, if it is false, then it must be true.

Now, for something slightly more complex:

Imagine there is a town with only one male barber; let's assume all men in this town are regularly shaved. Some men shave themselves, while others go to the barber. We can establish a rule: The barber shaves all those, and only those, men who do not shave themselves. Given these parameters, we face a question: Does the barber shave himself?

As it turns out, the scenario described is actually impossible.

If the barber does not shave himself, then according to the rule, he must shave himself, because he is the one tasked with shaving everyone who doesn't shave themselves.
But if he does shave himself, then according to the rule, he must stop, because he no longer falls into the group of people he is permitted to shave.

Self-referential concepts inherently harbor paradoxes, regardless of the subject matter—a fact that was spectacularly proven through formal logic by Kurt Gödel and Gregory Chaitin.

Any system that possesses enough complexity to speak about itself must, by necessity, contain paradoxes.

Therefore, if you intend to logically analyze someone's self-discovery, your analysis must be built upon concepts involving self-reference, rather than the juice of an orange.

Good luck with your search. 😁

Urbanwalker72, you total party pooper 🙂

Now they know exactly how to checkmate me.

You've got a point...

but

even if you can't identify someone who is self-aware,
spotting someone who isn't is easy enough.

In that regard, Drew Gray4 is definitely the latter.

Sandra Morgan2 said:Urbanwalker72, you total party pooper 🙂

Now they know exactly how to checkmate me.

You've got a point...

but

even if you can't identify someone who is self-aware,
spotting someone who isn't is easy enough.

In that regard, Drew Gray4 is definitely the latter.

😁

but

even if one has achieved self-realization, they might go unnoticed, whereas someone lacking it remains easy to overlook,
it is no easier to find those without it

in this regard, Drew Gray4 falls into the latter category.

Let us address this systematically. It matters little whether an individual is considered 'self-realized' within the context of your specific interpretation of spirituality.

Any person possessing self-awareness—that is, a conscious understanding of oneself, capable of grasping the concept of 'I' and recognizing their own identity—can be defined as self-aware.

Setting aside any metaphysical nuances, from a purely biological, intellectual, and logical standpoint, the principle remains identical. Self-reference applies to anyone with an internal life complex enough to sustain a system of symbols that includes the concept of 'self.'

One cannot escape this fundamental reality, nor can it be analyzed solely through the lens of the 'enlightened.' This condition applies to all human beings, and perhaps even to certain animals.