What's the point of required reading?

Jamie Davis9 said:and I suppose you're just tossing out information claiming that isn't how things are done?

If that’s the case, then what’s the point of reading these works in their entirety? (Most people just skim excerpts from massive stuff like the Bible, the Iliad, or the Odyssey...)

Why don't we just assign more contemporary books for school reading lists? I mean, books actually tailored to a kid's age group—don't give me that excuse that a seventeen-year-old's biggest life experience is dealing with the DMV—books where they can actually relate to the characters, or stories that tackle issues they could seriously benefit from understanding (there are plenty of great books out there about abusive relationships, for instance*) 🤷 the classics aren't really doing much for them here 🤷

*I have to admit, everything I've read lately has been in English; most of it is pretty recent, so I'm not even sure if there are American translations coming out anytime soon. But regardless, the point is that these are topics teenagers would find way more relatable and engaging.

I suppose I should address the recent outbursts from James Perez54... though why anyone bothers listening to such incessant noise is beyond my comprehension. It seems some people simply cannot exist without the need to perform for an audience, turning every minor disagreement into a grand, theatrical tragedy. If you insist on being loud, at least try to be coherent. kaže:
God, I’ve finished high school, I’ve finished college, and yet I still can't tell which dialect was used to write Equinox. Honestly, I should have just stayed in middle school...

So much interest from a teenager in such works... ☕

Back in high school, I actually took music appreciation classes. We spent our time diving into different historical eras of music and listening to various period-specific compositions. We even had exams where we were tested on our ability to identify specific musical works just by hearing them played...
At the end of the hour, if there was any time left—which, let's be honest, there almost always was—the professor would practically beg us to bring in our own cassette tapes... God, I was actually in school back during the era of cassette tapes. 🤣Every single hour, we’d sit there listening to whatever tape some student had picked out...
Why is it simply impossible to get things right with American grammar and books—the editors, the punctuation, those damn hyphens...
I have yet to hear of a single high school teacher in my entire life who would ever demand or even permit something like that during their class. I experienced it back in elementary school, sure, but certainly not in high school... 🤷

Back in high school, I had this English teacher—the one from that old story about Smith—who actually cared about what we were reading. He loved getting into real discussions with us about our books, which somehow managed to turn even the most tedious required reading into something genuinely intriguing...

He was constantly spinning yarns and anecdotes about various authors and their masterpieces; he could hold the attention of even those restless kids in the back of the class who usually spent the entire period sleeping...

Unfortunately, my son doesn't have a teacher like that; instead, he's stuck with some uninspired, rule-following nerd...

No, I’m not complaining. My little one pulled an A on his test, and he isn't struggling with his reading assignments at all right now. Besides, we're talking about elementary school, not high school...😉)

Peter Doyle2 said:How can you say that?
Let's—and this is what I’ve been saying all along, even if nobody really listens to me—let's focus on the era we actually live in. We need to look at the media surrounding us, which, especially for kids and teenagers, is way more engaging and attractive than books.
In that context, shouldn't the required reading be adapted to the times to actually encourage kids to read? Why not offer them stories that are actually relevant and interesting to them—something they *have* to read, unfortunately—so they can see that reading has its own charm, rather than just mindlessly staring at a screen?
Do they really think they'll get that from reading the Iliad, the Odyssey, or Proust? Seriously?
No.

General culture and knowledge? I think standard literature covers that well enough. In an age where reading habits are dying out, the current state of high school reading lists—which has been like this for a long, long time—just makes kids want to run away from reading even faster.

I agreed earlier that the curriculum needs a serious modernization, but blaming the reading list as the primary reason why kids hate reading is a complete miss. Kids don't want to read because they struggle to focus on a single thing for long enough; their brains are wired for multitasking, and books generally fail to hold their interest because they demand a level of concentration and patience that is increasingly rare.
I agree that this is something we should address, and I certainly agree that some books are deathly boring, but I disagree that the selection offered to them is inherently bad or unnecessary. In fact, it’s quite the opposite.

Peter Doyle2 said:If that’s the case, then what’s the point of reading these works in their entirety? (Most people just skim excerpts from massive stuff like the Bible, the Iliad, or the Odyssey...)

Why don't we just assign more contemporary books for school reading lists? I mean, books actually tailored to a kid's age group—don't give me that excuse that a seventeen-year-old's biggest life experience is dealing with the DMV—books where they can actually relate to the characters, or stories that tackle issues they could seriously benefit from understanding (there are plenty of great books out there about abusive relationships, for instance*) 🤷 the classics aren't really doing much for them here 🤷

*I have to admit, everything I've read lately has been in English; most of it is pretty recent, so I'm not even sure if there are American translations coming out anytime soon. But regardless, the point is that these are topics teenagers would find way more relatable and engaging.

Domestic abuse! 🙄 😁Even Laura was being abusive to Ed, for God's sake. 🤣

The whole idea is to examine the process, to witness the transformation. Transformation is a much simpler concept to grasp. Honestly, I think it would be a crime to strip Kafka from the curriculum.
Fortunately, they don't bother asking parents. 😛

Peter Doyle2, you seem to be an English professor, or maybe something along those lines.

Could you please answer the question from the thread title?
What is the actual purpose of required reading?
I mean—is there even a concrete definition for it?

Peter Doyle2 said:How can you say that?
Let's—and this is what I’ve been saying all along, even if nobody really listens to me—let's focus on the era we actually live in. We need to look at the media surrounding us, which, especially for kids and teenagers, is way more engaging and attractive than books.
In that context, shouldn't the required reading be adapted to the times to actually encourage kids to read? Why not offer them stories that are actually relevant and interesting to them—something they *have* to read, unfortunately—so they can see that reading has its own charm, rather than just mindlessly staring at a screen?
Do they really think they'll get that from reading the Iliad, the Odyssey, or Proust? Seriously?
No.

General culture and knowledge? I think standard literature covers that well enough. In an age where reading habits are dying out, the current state of high school reading lists—which has been like this for a long, long time—just makes kids want to run away from reading even faster.

I agree.

(And let's throw Kafkaesque "process" onto that list, too.)

Peter Doyle2 said:Peter Doyle2, you seem to be an English professor, or maybe something along those lines.

Could you please answer the question from the thread title?
What is the actual purpose of required reading?
I mean—is there even a concrete definition for it?

Assigned reading exists solely so that Jamie Davis9 and their little group of colleagues can pretend they possess actual intelligence. 🙂

Jamie Davis9 said:Domestic abuse! 🙄 😁Even Laura was being abusive to Ed, for God's sake. 🤣

The whole idea is to examine the process, to witness the transformation. Transformation is a much simpler concept to grasp. Honestly, I think it would be a crime to strip Kafka from the curriculum.
Fortunately, they don't bother asking parents. 😛

Not quite.
I've read through both the process and the transformation—I guess you could say I've seen the whole evolution.
A standard high school.
The transformation was easy enough to follow. Personally, I thought it was actually quite good—though I know it wasn't everyone's cup of tea. To each their own, I guess.
But the process...
I’m so lost right now—honestly, I’m at the point where I’d probably track down Kafka just to rip his fingernails out. 🤣 Man, I was only 17 back then. 🤣 I guess a whole lot of people seem to agree with me when it comes to how this process works—especially regarding how it's treated as some kind of staple for a seventeen-year-old.

Jamie Davis9 said:Assigned reading exists solely so that Jamie Davis9 and their little group of colleagues can pretend they possess actual intelligence. 🙂

So, what's the point of all this 😛
? I'm asking because, I don't know, it actually interests me—really. I think I've asked about this on this thread maybe a dozen times now.

Honestly, I think the Gleam family story works way better as a movie than it ever did as a book.

Sure, maybe Laura wasn't played by anyone legendary, and Ljubica Jović didn't quite nail the Barunic role like Ena Begović might have, so there's a question of whether it would've hit as hard without them.

But hey, why not just run an experiment? Let them adapt a classic into a series or a film, and if people actually want to read the original, they can do that and then compare the two.

Peter Doyle2 said:Not quite.
I've read through both the process and the transformation—I guess you could say I've seen the whole evolution.
A standard high school.
The transformation was easy enough to follow. Personally, I thought it was actually quite good—though I know it wasn't everyone's cup of tea. To each their own, I guess.
But the process...
I’m so lost right now—honestly, I’m at the point where I’d probably track down Kafka just to rip his fingernails out. 🤣 Man, I was only 17 back then. 🤣 I guess a whole lot of people seem to agree with me when it comes to how this process works—especially regarding how it's treated as some kind of staple for a seventeen-year-old.

Over the last decade, they've been pushing *The Transformation* pretty hard, even showing up on AP exams. But forget *The Process*; this year, one of the essay prompts was actually about Hemingway’s shorter works. Truly complex literature, I’ll give you that—perhaps a bit too dense for your average high schooler. But here is what I did: I read them aloud to the class, fully committing to "performing" every single character😁, and let me tell you, they were floored. They loved the stories and the style. It really goes to show how little effort some teachers put in.
If they hadn't tackled those classics in school, there's a massive chance ninety percent of them would never have voluntarily picked up anything that profound or beautiful. It's hardly a loss, though, because I certainly won't be recommending it to anyone who hasn't already experienced it.
And that's my answer to your second question.

Larry Walker24 said:Honestly, I think the Gleam family story works way better as a movie than it ever did as a book.

Sure, maybe Laura wasn't played by anyone legendary, and Ljubica Jović didn't quite nail the Barunic role like Ena Begović might have, so there's a question of whether it would've hit as hard without them.

But hey, why not just run an experiment? Let them adapt a classic into a series or a film, and if people actually want to read the original, they can do that and then compare the two.

Well, my students actually watched Gatsby for their required reading assignment. I have to admit, it really is a cinematic masterpiece. 👍

Jamie Davis9 said:Over the last decade, they've been pushing *The Transformation* pretty hard, even showing up on AP exams. But forget *The Process*; this year, one of the essay prompts was actually about Hemingway’s shorter works. Truly complex literature, I’ll give you that—perhaps a bit too dense for your average high schooler. But here is what I did: I read them aloud to the class, fully committing to "performing" every single character😁, and let me tell you, they were floored. They loved the stories and the style. It really goes to show how little effort some teachers put in.
If they hadn't tackled those classics in school, there's a massive chance ninety percent of them would never have voluntarily picked up anything that profound or beautiful. It's hardly a loss, though, because I certainly won't be recommending it to anyone who hasn't already experienced it.
And that's my answer to your second question.

I am one of those people who pointed out how vital it is to have a high-quality, dedicated teacher if you want kids to actually love reading, yet you mocked that by bringing up math, calculus, underachieving students, and how parents always end up blaming the teachers and all that nonsense.

Now you're just contradicting yourself.🤷

James Perez54 said:I am one of those people who pointed out how vital it is to have a high-quality, dedicated teacher if you want kids to actually love reading, yet you mocked that by bringing up math, calculus, underachieving students, and how parents always end up blaming the teachers and all that nonsense.

Now you're just contradicting yourself.🤷

I am not retracting my position; rather, it seems you are approaching these posts as if they were required reading for a literature exam. My point remains exactly what I stated: parents most frequently blame subpar teachers for everything that goes wrong, conveniently choosing to ignore their own failures and the inherent limitations of their children.

James Perez54 said:I am one of those people who pointed out how vital it is to have a high-quality, dedicated teacher if you want kids to actually love reading, yet you mocked that by bringing up math, calculus, underachieving students, and how parents always end up blaming the teachers and all that nonsense.

Now you're just contradicting yourself.🤷

I’m reading her latest post directed at me, and I guess it comes across as being somewhat... condescending? It feels like she's basically saying, "I'm the expert here—don't bother questioning me or challenging my opinion because I clearly know best."
I guess I can't help but wonder how she’d actually feel—you know, as a mom with a little one just starting daycare—if I were the one looking after her kid. It makes me think about how I should probably approach all those questions she has about the preschool. 🤷
We all have our own niche expertise, I guess.
Alright.
Look, I did ask some very specific questions here.
The title of this thread is actually a VERY specific question—one that I don't think any actual expert has managed to answer yet. 🤷
Required reading.
I don't really care about the definition of the American language as an academic subject—nor am I particularly interested in the supposed importance of "great literary works" throughout history.

I’m curious about what exactly defines "required reading"—and more importantly, what we should actually be aiming to deliver to our students through it.
If the answer boils down to reading comprehension or something similar—forgive me—but I honestly think about 90% of high school required reading just isn't clicking for most students. And we have to remember, this curriculum is pretty much identical across the board, whether you're attending a standard public high school or a specialized prep academy.

I’ve noticed that Mima brings up the SATs and how well she did on them quite a bit.
We aren't talking about that.
We’re talking about required reading here—you know, those books kids are forced to slog through. Is that really the whole point? Just checking boxes to get into college? It feels like there's zero actual value in the reading itself if that's the case. And why does a book have to be some massive, "highly acclaimed" literary masterpiece just to qualify? Why is it the exact same list for every student, whether they're planning to become a professor or just heading off to trade school to work on HVAC systems? 🤷

What exactly does a high schooler lose if they don't read the entirety of Godot and instead just get a classroom summary? I mean—let’s be more specific—what is that student actually missing out on if they spend their study hall reading Tolkien and having deep discussions about him instead?

Or maybe we look at it this way:
I have to admit, I always tend to view required reading through the lens of my own memories—how we used to handle it back in school. It was mostly just talking through the books during study halls, no actual writing involved. I keep forgetting that most students today still actually write about what they read.
In that spirit, wouldn't it be perfectly fine to give students a list of, say, five mandatory books per year, and let them pick the rest themselves? They could write about their own choices, dive into characterizing the characters that actually resonated with them, or pull out favorite quotes and explain why those lines stuck. That’s exactly what I felt was missing when we studied literature—that sense of personal connection, you know? Just focusing on what *I* personally found meaningful in the work.
You never know—maybe a teacher might even discover a new, fascinating book through a student's recommendation 😬
.
The last time that happened to me was back in middle school. After that, nobody ever asked me, "What did you read? What did you like? Why?"
It was always just "you have to do this" 🤷
. (A little side story regarding that 8th-grade era: near the end of the school year, my cousin showed up in a total panic because of her reading assignments, begging to copy mine. Being a good person, I let her copy the mandatory ones, but I definitely didn't let her touch "my" books. I'm being totally serious 😬)
.
Is that really the point of required reading? Especially (again) in this day and age?

Good grief, it’s hopeless; most plumbers aren't exactly out here reading Beckett. 🙄 Even if they did, I doubt it would actually change their lives for the better. 🙂
I mention the SATs because those standardized tests place such an immense weight on teachers, and the specific book we're discussing is chosen specifically to align with the essay prompts students face during testing season.
Regardless, I just wasted my entire afternoon trying to explain what this book is and why reading it actually matters, but since I was talking to you, it felt like a complete exercise in futility. Now, imagine when one of your kids—already hardened by your own skepticism—walks into my classroom; I have to work ten times harder just to convince them that studying the classics isn't a total waste of time. They've already been told by their own mother that skipping these books doesn't cost them a thing, so honestly...

🤣
Don't worry—if my kids ever end up under my roof, they'll have to read Waiting for Godot because it’s just—well, it's just how it is. 🤣 But I'll probably end up treating them with some modern, age-appropriate stuff instead. I have a daughter now. Twilight rules. 🤣 Honestly, I wish I had a mother who treated me with more relevant material when I was 17; the whole process left me pretty traumatized. Or whatever. Ugh, goosebumps. Forget it.
Anyway, it seems equally obvious to me that the curriculum and state testing put an insane amount of pressure on teachers. It's a mess...

But hey, we're on a forum. We aren't in a meeting with the Secretary of Education. Let's just, for a second, talk about what would be "ideal."
What should required reading actually serve in this day and age?
College students can process things at their own pace.
A person's relationship with books and reading is—in my opinion—something built over a lifetime.
And when it comes to high school reading lists, there are way more people who found them revolting than those who actually appreciate them. At least if you try to step into a teenager's shoes (and yeah, even at 30, with all this frustration toward the political establishment, I’d probably value the process more. When I was 17, it just left me with trauma).

Let's talk—even if we're just barking at the moon—about what needs to happen so that the voices of us mere mortals, the students and parents, are actually heard regarding this whole reading list issue.
As a book.
As a medium that is dying out.
As something many of us truly loved, but were taught to hate because of school assignments.
(I'm not the only one—again, Peter Doyle2, look back through the posts).

We live in mediocre times in a mediocre country with mediocre principles that seem stuck in the dark ages. Can we at least talk here about what isn't working? What could be better?
Maybe one day someone from this group will become the Secretary of Education and remember that adding fantasy to the curriculum would be a great idea. 🤣

Btw, my kid is years away from any kind of reading list, let alone high school level. Peace—I hope they don't even have to deal with it in this country this year. But still. This forum is for discussion. Let's talk about what's wrong.
And btw 2, my husband isn't a gas technician, but he is a graphic editor, and he had to wait for Godot 😬 how or why, beats me 🤷

Look, you haven't actually said anything. You're talking a lot, but there's zero substance here. My bad. 🤷

amberskipper3 said:Actually, I disagree.
The whole point of required reading is to give students a roadmap of literary movements, history, theory, language, and the specific styles that defined different eras.
We pick these specific works because they’re the clearest examples of those concepts in action. It's about teaching the fundamentals through representative classics.

Here’s my take—I think this is a pretty clear explanation of what required reading is actually for.
I don't really get why people are complaining so much about the book selection available to students.
Is it just so we have more time to read Harry Potter, Twilight, or Fifty Shades of Grey? 🤣

Personally, I feel like any book from a specific movement exists so that through reading, you can experience the era, the history, the society, the philosophy... you feel the author and the movement itself.
Reading these books builds an understanding of that time period and helps you form your own opinion on the movement, the writer, and so on.
Literary movements are part of the curriculum, just like they are for art, music, philosophy, or history.

Honestly, I don't see how you can learn any of this from just reading summaries.
Sure, you might pick up bits and pieces from a summary, but if the goal is just to memorize that there was some Romanticism era where a guy wrote letters to his sweetheart, or some Realist in a trench coat copying texts, then it's probably better not to study at all.
The more condensed a summary is, the faster you forget it.
That’s just how our brains work.

I understand what some people are trying to say—that certain teachers made them hate their required reading, which then made them hate reading in general. But even if we assume the reading list is optional, a bad English teacher isn't going to change, nor will they significantly help someone develop a love for reading.

And I'm not sure why everyone is focusing solely on the English teachers. Our history teacher used to constantly introduce us to various writers and incredible works... he’d even talk about movies, music, and fine art. He really went out of his way to broaden our general culture and encourage us to read and explore.
It was the same thing in our foreign language class, though we were all a bit disinterested back then, and since it was a language we were still learning, our ability to debate it was pretty limited. We just didn't have the capacity for it.
For me, though, I heard about plenty of great books during those classes that kept my motivation alive.

In fact, I know very few people who actually stopped loving reading because of a school assignment.🤷

Usually, what kills my zest for life (not just reading!) is spending eight hours straight reading piles of reports, plans, and all sorts of politically correct nonsense...
In moments like those, those old-fashioned, boring high school dramas, poems, or epics actually seem like little picture books compared to the harsh reality I actually have to deal with.

To practice reading comprehension, sometimes we have to read things we don't particularly enjoy or have high expectations for. We also need to encounter strange dialects or different writing styles and struggle with things that aren't immediately clear... to me, that’s exactly what good required reading is for—it's great exercise.

So, I do think that required reading in elementary school has lost its purpose. I'm afraid that most parents are getting too involved—helping with the reading, the writing, pushing their own views on the book before and after it's read. As a result, the child becomes a little robot just trying to snag another A, without ever actually attempting to think about what they read (if they even read it at all).