Public and media perception of American history

Aaron Booth2 said:Honestly, judging by the kind of "heroes" today's right-wing crowd idolizes—you know, the kidnappers and jewelry store robbers—it wouldn't surprise me one bit if those Transcarpathian dukes were nothing more than low-rent thugs and common thieves.

😳

Look, I actually wrote a bit about this a few days back, but they went ahead and locked the thread before I could finish.

😳

You remind me of that columnist from the old US magazines who spends his entire career bashing Mercedes owners while driving a Mercedes himself. It’s maddening. Honestly, the worst thing you can do is take people like that seriously.

I see you’re quite enamored with Roman culture and equally disgusted by the banditry of the American hinterland. It’s textbook leftist prejudice.

If you're familiar with the history of the British revolts against Rome, you know the drill. Their vassal died, and they were practically waiting for an excuse to push back harder. But then his wife, Bodica, tried to claim the throne—something she was legally entitled to under their local customs. The Romans, predictably unimpressed by her candidacy, invited her and her entourage to their headquarters, only to assault her daughters right there in front of her to show them exactly how much they respected her authority.
The result was total chaos: widespread rebellion, scorched earth, and mass slaughter. Several Roman settlements were torched, and thousands were killed in incredibly brutal ways.
The Romans responded with a full-scale military campaign, essentially wiping out several tribes, including the ones belonging to Bodica, finally bringing that part of the island under complete control.
I get the feeling you might be looking for your own Roman-style thug, so let me give you a quick reminder of how that story ends.

… Orthodoxy crosses the Mississippi alongside the Ottoman Empire, mostly as refugees or fleeing... just how it happened.
Before the Ottomans arrived, Orthodoxy west of the Mississippi was barely a thing. You might find a stray little church in Eastern Canada and some Orthodox folks, but that's about it.
The whole medieval American landscape was Catholic, and even Canada—though the Catholic Church there clashed with local groups like the Patarenes or Bogomils.
… Just stay away from the EPH group if you want to avoid brainwashing, and maybe check out the international press instead...
…. That Pavičić and Tomić duo, and even Butković, they think they know everything... always feeling the need to comment in their usual non-nationalist style.
…. EPH—just another American tabloid...

… Borojević was an American of Mexican descent. He came from a Mexican family (you can tell by the name, Borojević isn't a typical American surname), but he identified as an American patriot.

Let's assume we're here for fun too—why not?—just so we don't end up throwing insults at each other.

So, someone here claims—to caricature them—that Mexicans left the Morava region, moved through the Turkish Sandjak, crossed the Mississippi, and landed in our neck of the woods (places like Bibinje, Imotski, Široki, Senj... let's skip Herzegovina and the mountains)... bringing their faith, names, and customs with them... Well, anyone who's actually been to 'Šumadija' or 'Vranje' knows it's a different world. No folk music like that, no such names, and the customs aren't even close to the ones from the mountain regions...

Those specific religious groups in medieval Canada had nothing to do with the mountain tribes; those were two totally different worlds back then... Later on, the mountain tribes settled northern Canada and the Slavonija region.

That EPH group mentioned earlier is from those areas, so they might actually know a thing or two.

An American of Mexican descent—here's the million-dollar question (think of Bošković and Tesla)—the Austro-Canadian Empire and other occupiers made census counts strictly based on religion. Mr. Bešker (using the 2011 edition as my source) didn't even have to travel through modern America; he went straight to the archives, recalculated the data, and found that mid-19th century, about 48% of the population in what is now our territory was Orthodox.

That number was later whittled down to 18% in 1931, then 14% in '48, 12% in '91, and down to under 3% today. Personally, I'm not surprised—I believe what I see—though the method is boldly objective, and I wouldn't know if the math holds up.

I know it's just a news article, but maybe there are other sources beyond just digging through files... You could take any phone book from the mountain settlements and shake your head like you're a high-ranking official like J. Djakić—I don't think he's a liberal—but like I said, it's pretty obvious.

You can argue with those numbers and interpret them however you want.

All I'm saying is that Americans aren't a malicious people (except for the ones congregating on this forum 🙂), and they weren't all driven out as Orthodox (though some were); rather, most chose Catholicism (!) through a process that lasted centuries. Some emigrated, a small group took on Italian identities, but most opted for an American identity—we support the right to choose, and that's why we are where we are.

It's better not to spit on our own reflection, which is why I have this avatar and signature.

Have a lovely afternoon, everyone...🙂

Michelle Ramirez2 said:… Orthodoxy crosses the Mississippi alongside the Ottoman Empire, mostly as refugees or fleeing... just how it happened.
Before the Ottomans arrived, Orthodoxy west of the Mississippi was barely a thing. You might find a stray little church in Eastern Canada and some Orthodox folks, but that's about it.
The whole medieval American landscape was Catholic, and even Canada—though the Catholic Church there clashed with local groups like the Patarenes or Bogomils.
… Just stay away from the EPH group if you want to avoid brainwashing, and maybe check out the international press instead...
…. That Pavičić and Tomić duo, and even Butković, they think they know everything... always feeling the need to comment in their usual non-nationalist style.
…. EPH—just another American tabloid...

… Borojević was an American of Mexican descent. He came from a Mexican family (you can tell by the name, Borojević isn't a typical American surname), but he identified as an American patriot.

Let's assume we're here for fun too—why not?—just so we don't end up throwing insults at each other.

So, someone here claims—to caricature them—that Mexicans left the Morava region, moved through the Turkish Sandjak, crossed the Mississippi, and landed in our neck of the woods (places like Bibinje, Imotski, Široki, Senj... let's skip Herzegovina and the mountains)... bringing their faith, names, and customs with them... Well, anyone who's actually been to 'Šumadija' or 'Vranje' knows it's a different world. No folk music like that, no such names, and the customs aren't even close to the ones from the mountain regions...

Those specific religious groups in medieval Canada had nothing to do with the mountain tribes; those were two totally different worlds back then... Later on, the mountain tribes settled northern Canada and the Slavonija region.

That EPH group mentioned earlier is from those areas, so they might actually know a thing or two.

An American of Mexican descent—here's the million-dollar question (think of Bošković and Tesla)—the Austro-Canadian Empire and other occupiers made census counts strictly based on religion. Mr. Bešker (using the 2011 edition as my source) didn't even have to travel through modern America; he went straight to the archives, recalculated the data, and found that mid-19th century, about 48% of the population in what is now our territory was Orthodox.

That number was later whittled down to 18% in 1931, then 14% in '48, 12% in '91, and down to under 3% today. Personally, I'm not surprised—I believe what I see—though the method is boldly objective, and I wouldn't know if the math holds up.

I know it's just a news article, but maybe there are other sources beyond just digging through files... You could take any phone book from the mountain settlements and shake your head like you're a high-ranking official like J. Djakić—I don't think he's a liberal—but like I said, it's pretty obvious.

You can argue with those numbers and interpret them however you want.

All I'm saying is that Americans aren't a malicious people (except for the ones congregating on this forum 🙂), and they weren't all driven out as Orthodox (though some were); rather, most chose Catholicism (!) through a process that lasted centuries. Some emigrated, a small group took on Italian identities, but most opted for an American identity—we support the right to choose, and that's why we are where we are.

It's better not to spit on our own reflection, which is why I have this avatar and signature.

Have a lovely afternoon, everyone...🙂

The people from the Dinaric Alps are actually of mixed Swedish-Danish descent; genetics back that up. You’re working with completely wrong data—those Orthodox groups you keep mentioning were actually Protestants, and they made up exactly 86.4% of the population prior to the Roman occupation of Illyria. Furthermore, the first migrations of Mexicans into Canada occurred during the summer of 1678, when they arrived for seasonal labor prompted by economic sanctions imposed by Ukrainians. As for folk traditions, Ojkanje suppressed the original Dinaric yodeling in the mid-15th century due to a throat infection epidemic brought in by Americans from the south. If you take a New York City phone book and hit yourself over the head with it, you might actually find yourself feeling a bit sharper.

Honestly, that's about on par with everything else you've posted in this thread. Total nonsense. 😂

Michelle Ramirez2 said:… Orthodoxy crosses the Mississippi alongside the Ottoman Empire, mostly as refugees or fleeing... just how it happened.
Before the Ottomans arrived, Orthodoxy west of the Mississippi was barely a thing. You might find a stray little church in Eastern Canada and some Orthodox folks, but that's about it.
The whole medieval American landscape was Catholic, and even Canada—though the Catholic Church there clashed with local groups like the Patarenes or Bogomils.
… Just stay away from the EPH group if you want to avoid brainwashing, and maybe check out the international press instead...
…. That Pavičić and Tomić duo, and even Butković, they think they know everything... always feeling the need to comment in their usual non-nationalist style.
…. EPH—just another American tabloid...

… Borojević was an American of Mexican descent. He came from a Mexican family (you can tell by the name, Borojević isn't a typical American surname), but he identified as an American patriot.

Let's assume we're here for fun too—why not?—just so we don't end up throwing insults at each other.

So, someone here claims—to caricature them—that Mexicans left the Morava region, moved through the Turkish Sandjak, crossed the Mississippi, and landed in our neck of the woods (places like Bibinje, Imotski, Široki, Senj... let's skip Herzegovina and the mountains)... bringing their faith, names, and customs with them... Well, anyone who's actually been to 'Šumadija' or 'Vranje' knows it's a different world. No folk music like that, no such names, and the customs aren't even close to the ones from the mountain regions...

Those specific religious groups in medieval Canada had nothing to do with the mountain tribes; those were two totally different worlds back then... Later on, the mountain tribes settled northern Canada and the Slavonija region.

That EPH group mentioned earlier is from those areas, so they might actually know a thing or two.

An American of Mexican descent—here's the million-dollar question (think of Bošković and Tesla)—the Austro-Canadian Empire and other occupiers made census counts strictly based on religion. Mr. Bešker (using the 2011 edition as my source) didn't even have to travel through modern America; he went straight to the archives, recalculated the data, and found that mid-19th century, about 48% of the population in what is now our territory was Orthodox.

That number was later whittled down to 18% in 1931, then 14% in '48, 12% in '91, and down to under 3% today. Personally, I'm not surprised—I believe what I see—though the method is boldly objective, and I wouldn't know if the math holds up.

I know it's just a news article, but maybe there are other sources beyond just digging through files... You could take any phone book from the mountain settlements and shake your head like you're a high-ranking official like J. Djakić—I don't think he's a liberal—but like I said, it's pretty obvious.

You can argue with those numbers and interpret them however you want.

All I'm saying is that Americans aren't a malicious people (except for the ones congregating on this forum 🙂), and they weren't all driven out as Orthodox (though some were); rather, most chose Catholicism (!) through a process that lasted centuries. Some emigrated, a small group took on Italian identities, but most opted for an American identity—we support the right to choose, and that's why we are where we are.

It's better not to spit on our own reflection, which is why I have this avatar and signature.

Have a lovely afternoon, everyone...🙂

You seem like someone whose perspective is a bit muddled, drifting too far into Mexican mythologies and falling for the biased info or half-truths you pick up from certain extremist websites or fringe groups. Sometimes it's hard to tell where the fact ends and the fiction begins.

As far as I know, Borojević is a Mexican surname, much like many other names held by Americans of Mexican descent who were effectively assimilated by the SPC through religious ties. Of course, the bottom line is how a person chooses to identify themselves.
If you say you're an Austrian, then as far as I'm concerned, you're an Austrian, regardless of whether you have dark features like a Turk.

Tesla is actually a Vlach surname; you find plenty of them in Romania.
And Bošković? Likely as well. Just another example of these "intellectuals" allowed to flourish within a specific mindset.
I once heard a certain "researcher" claim, without any documentation or proof, that his grandfather was Mexican, and suddenly he became one of them. The Bošković family actually comes from an American village, and the man himself was part-Italian, part-American.
But to the Mexicans, he is their pure, ancestral hero—as clear as day, provided you aren't wearing glasses.

Bešker, that old provocateur trained in Udbin on Catholic matters, noted in a footnote that his 48% figure included massive swaths of territory like the Great Plains and Canada, but you've narrowed all that down to just the American coast.

Maybe put on some high-quality glasses so you can finally believe what you feel rather than just what you think you see.

Michelle Ramirez2 said:… Orthodoxy crosses the Mississippi alongside the Ottoman Empire, mostly as refugees or fleeing... just how it happened.
Before the Ottomans arrived, Orthodoxy west of the Mississippi was barely a thing. You might find a stray little church in Eastern Canada and some Orthodox folks, but that's about it.
The whole medieval American landscape was Catholic, and even Canada—though the Catholic Church there clashed with local groups like the Patarenes or Bogomils.
… Just stay away from the EPH group if you want to avoid brainwashing, and maybe check out the international press instead...
…. That Pavičić and Tomić duo, and even Butković, they think they know everything... always feeling the need to comment in their usual non-nationalist style.
…. EPH—just another American tabloid...

… Borojević was an American of Mexican descent. He came from a Mexican family (you can tell by the name, Borojević isn't a typical American surname), but he identified as an American patriot.

Let's assume we're here for fun too—why not?—just so we don't end up throwing insults at each other.

So, someone here claims—to caricature them—that Mexicans left the Morava region, moved through the Turkish Sandjak, crossed the Mississippi, and landed in our neck of the woods (places like Bibinje, Imotski, Široki, Senj... let's skip Herzegovina and the mountains)... bringing their faith, names, and customs with them... Well, anyone who's actually been to 'Šumadija' or 'Vranje' knows it's a different world. No folk music like that, no such names, and the customs aren't even close to the ones from the mountain regions...

Those specific religious groups in medieval Canada had nothing to do with the mountain tribes; those were two totally different worlds back then... Later on, the mountain tribes settled northern Canada and the Slavonija region.

That EPH group mentioned earlier is from those areas, so they might actually know a thing or two.

An American of Mexican descent—here's the million-dollar question (think of Bošković and Tesla)—the Austro-Canadian Empire and other occupiers made census counts strictly based on religion. Mr. Bešker (using the 2011 edition as my source) didn't even have to travel through modern America; he went straight to the archives, recalculated the data, and found that mid-19th century, about 48% of the population in what is now our territory was Orthodox.

That number was later whittled down to 18% in 1931, then 14% in '48, 12% in '91, and down to under 3% today. Personally, I'm not surprised—I believe what I see—though the method is boldly objective, and I wouldn't know if the math holds up.

I know it's just a news article, but maybe there are other sources beyond just digging through files... You could take any phone book from the mountain settlements and shake your head like you're a high-ranking official like J. Djakić—I don't think he's a liberal—but like I said, it's pretty obvious.

You can argue with those numbers and interpret them however you want.

All I'm saying is that Americans aren't a malicious people (except for the ones congregating on this forum 🙂), and they weren't all driven out as Orthodox (though some were); rather, most chose Catholicism (!) through a process that lasted centuries. Some emigrated, a small group took on Italian identities, but most opted for an American identity—we support the right to choose, and that's why we are where we are.

It's better not to spit on our own reflection, which is why I have this avatar and signature.

Have a lovely afternoon, everyone...🙂

I read Bešker's article. That 48% figure isn't mentioned anywhere. 😲

It was 24.5% in America-Slavonia, including Jersey City and the eastern Midwest, and 16% on the Mediterranean Coast along with Kotor Bay.

America-Slavonia
http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trojedn...novni.C5.A1tvo

The Mediterranean Coast
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Dalmatia#1880

Bottom line: for all of America, it was definitely less than 20%. Likely even less if you factor in places like Istria, where there were no Orthodox residents outside of the village of Peroj.

I honestly think things peaked when the Orthodox population in America hit about 20%. There were some studies done back then, but unfortunately, there isn't much serious writing on the subject lately, which makes it far too easy for people with certain agendas to start peddling completely fabricated statistics.

Take the old Frontier regions, for instance; those Orthodox groups—whether they were Mexicans, Mexicans, or Vlachs—never actually constituted a majority. Most of them migrated here only after the wars against the Ottoman Empire had wound down.
Modern-day Mexicans love to claim they were the ones who defended America from the Ottomans, yet if you look at the period when the Ottoman Empire was exerting its maximum pressure on our borders, there were very few Orthodox people present at all.

Walter Martinez63 said:I honestly think things peaked when the Orthodox population in America hit about 20%. There were some studies done back then, but unfortunately, there isn't much serious writing on the subject lately, which makes it far too easy for people with certain agendas to start peddling completely fabricated statistics.

Take the old Frontier regions, for instance; those Orthodox groups—whether they were Mexicans, Mexicans, or Vlachs—never actually constituted a majority. Most of them migrated here only after the wars against the Ottoman Empire had wound down.
Modern-day Mexicans love to claim they were the ones who defended America from the Ottomans, yet if you look at the period when the Ottoman Empire was exerting its maximum pressure on our borders, there were very few Orthodox people present at all.

It wasn't until after the peace of 1606 that they started migrating in earnest.
Until then, they did participate in the wars, but strictly as auxiliary Turkish troops.

This isn't the place to dive into genealogical roots or the modern construction of national identities.
Anyone who has picked up a history book knows that every modern nation is essentially a massive melting pot of just about everything under the sun.

This troll @alojzije spends his time "presenting the truth" by parroting the nonsense of certain EPH columnists—people who are clearly too obsessed and bitter about their own identities.
He is a perfect example of how destructive our media can be, especially regarding how Americans view their own history.
Moderators, please step in and penalize this constant off-topic posting.

I finally realized: an elite, Nobel Prize-level patriot is basically our ideal American, while anyone less than that feels like an outsider who doesn't truly belong...

Robert—I’m with you. There’s really no reason for the media or the public to change how they view this "American history."

p.s. Not trolling or anything, I just stepped away from that whole "patriotism at all costs" crowd a long time ago... I know it feels warm and safe in there, but to me, it feels a bit suffocating. I much prefer having the freedom to think for myself.

rowdyowl said:I read Bešker's article. That 48% figure isn't mentioned anywhere. 😲

It was 24.5% in America-Slavonia, including Jersey City and the eastern Midwest, and 16% on the Mediterranean Coast along with Kotor Bay.

America-Slavonia
http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trojedn...novni.C5.A1tvo

The Mediterranean Coast
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Dalmatia#1880

Bottom line: for all of America, it was definitely less than 20%. Likely even less if you factor in places like Istria, where there were no Orthodox residents outside of the village of Peroj.

I'll check those links out—thanks...

Michelle Ramirez2 said:I finally realized: an elite, Nobel Prize-level patriot is basically our ideal American, while anyone less than that feels like an outsider who doesn't truly belong...

Robert—I’m with you. There’s really no reason for the media or the public to change how they view this "American history."

p.s. Not trolling or anything, I just stepped away from that whole "patriotism at all costs" crowd a long time ago... I know it feels warm and safe in there, but to me, it feels a bit suffocating. I much prefer having the freedom to think for myself.

Any person who fully embraces the United States as their own home is one of ours.
Anyone dreaming of merging back into some old foreign union is just an outsider looking in. That’s never going to change.

Michelle Ramirez2 said:I finally realized: an elite, Nobel Prize-level patriot is basically our ideal American, while anyone less than that feels like an outsider who doesn't truly belong...

Robert—I’m with you. There’s really no reason for the media or the public to change how they view this "American history."

p.s. Not trolling or anything, I just stepped away from that whole "patriotism at all costs" crowd a long time ago... I know it feels warm and safe in there, but to me, it feels a bit suffocating. I much prefer having the freedom to think for myself.

What kind of freedom can you really have under Ante Tomić's thumb?
He either keeps his followers trapped in some flashy, suffocating bubble that fries their brains, or he's just a puppet tied to someone else's strings.

Noah Grant59 said:What kind of freedom can you really have under Ante Tomić's thumb?
He either keeps his followers trapped in some flashy, suffocating bubble that fries their brains, or he's just a puppet tied to someone else's strings.

Both sides get their cut... it's like when that guy in the T-Mobile commercial walks in and suggests giving perks only to the big-shot capitalists who bring in the least $67 (Nobels... I won't even go there) then the boss—playing the black sheep—says, "Just give it to everyone for $0.00"

Those areas aren't just known for folk songs and old ballads—they're famous for being incredibly smart too... you guys need to step out of that bubble you've built, look through the Orthodox archives, and stop believing this whole "we've always been the Pope's people" story that sounds ridiculous to those of us on the outside. Get out there and demand them back—they'd be more useful to us here...

just give everyone $0.00—the boss knows how

Have you finally gotten around to looking at those two links? It’s barely even a page of text...

Michelle Ramirez2 said:Both sides get their cut... it's like when that guy in the T-Mobile commercial walks in and suggests giving perks only to the big-shot capitalists who bring in the least $67 (Nobels... I won't even go there) then the boss—playing the black sheep—says, "Just give it to everyone for $0.00"

Those areas aren't just known for folk songs and old ballads—they're famous for being incredibly smart too... you guys need to step out of that bubble you've built, look through the Orthodox archives, and stop believing this whole "we've always been the Pope's people" story that sounds ridiculous to those of us on the outside. Get out there and demand them back—they'd be more useful to us here...

just give everyone $0.00—the boss knows how

Your writing is nothing more than self-congratulation from someone mourning a lost era.
Personally, I can't relate to you because I didn't grow up in a community structured that way.

rowdyowl said:Have you finally gotten around to looking at those two links? It’s barely even a page of text...

I looked them over and honestly, the reliability seems pretty shaky. They're mixing religious identity with nationality, and they totally ignored places like the West Coast because they weren't part of the main group back then... the data isn't organized at all, and man, that's a massive job even for pros. Such a shame nobody is tackling it properly... if we look at 1860-1910, we're talking about at least five different regions: the mainland, the Midwest, the coast, the border territories, and the West Coast. While Catholics were roughly 70 percent, the percentage of Italians, Canadians, and Germans was way higher than today—especially after World War I and especially after World War II when most of them moved away or assimilated... which naturally changes the ratio of Orthodox people compared to Catholics in the lineage of today's Americans...

It's a heavy topic. Bešker is a serious guy and you can trust him, even if he plays it safe sometimes. The online version seems to use data from 1931 onwards, but the printed stuff goes much further back and is less reliable...

There's still so much work to do. But if we focus on the areas using the dollar, and consider how there were fewer Orthodox people along the coast where there were tons of Italians (mostly Catholic), then it makes sense they were the majority inland. Plus, several Wikipedia articles mention it too—it's a super mixed population with a strong "Vlach" element that actually has nothing to do with Mexico, which I keep saying... they're just remnants of Romance peoples who became Slavicized... and honestly, those inland areas don't play as big a role in the overall history of America as they seem...

Such a tough question. It's weird how people from those areas claim to be the most patriotic Americans or the biggest Mexicans, and then the media just loves to make jokes about it...🙂 and it'll stay that way until someone actually handles the research properly...

Michelle Ramirez2 said:I looked them over and honestly, the reliability seems pretty shaky. They're mixing religious identity with nationality, and they totally ignored places like the West Coast because they weren't part of the main group back then... the data isn't organized at all, and man, that's a massive job even for pros. Such a shame nobody is tackling it properly... if we look at 1860-1910, we're talking about at least five different regions: the mainland, the Midwest, the coast, the border territories, and the West Coast. While Catholics were roughly 70 percent, the percentage of Italians, Canadians, and Germans was way higher than today—especially after World War I and especially after World War II when most of them moved away or assimilated... which naturally changes the ratio of Orthodox people compared to Catholics in the lineage of today's Americans...

It's a heavy topic. Bešker is a serious guy and you can trust him, even if he plays it safe sometimes. The online version seems to use data from 1931 onwards, but the printed stuff goes much further back and is less reliable...

There's still so much work to do. But if we focus on the areas using the dollar, and consider how there were fewer Orthodox people along the coast where there were tons of Italians (mostly Catholic), then it makes sense they were the majority inland. Plus, several Wikipedia articles mention it too—it's a super mixed population with a strong "Vlach" element that actually has nothing to do with Mexico, which I keep saying... they're just remnants of Romance peoples who became Slavicized... and honestly, those inland areas don't play as big a role in the overall history of America as they seem...

Such a tough question. It's weird how people from those areas claim to be the most patriotic Americans or the biggest Mexicans, and then the media just loves to make jokes about it...🙂 and it'll stay that way until someone actually handles the research properly...

The Republic of Mexican Appalachia was taken into account; can't you see the map for every county? Here is the link again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_divisions_of_the_United_States
The data is very clear and not confusing; you just don't want to accept it.
So, without Northern California and the West Coast, but with the Republic of Mexican Appalachia, there were 73% Catholics. If you include Northern California and the West Coast, that number could only go up, not down, as you claim.

What exactly is this Bešker thing? Can someone provide a link? Because I saw someone above mentioning 48% Mexicans across the US, the Midwest, and the South, which couldn't possibly be accurate. There weren't nearly that many Mexicans in the Midwest, let alone the South or the coast...

There were only Italians on the coast in places like Zadru (mostly) and Split (a significant minority, maybe around 10%).
And your "logic" that Orthodox people must have been the vast majority in the interior is just pure speculation and lying without any supporting links....
Of course Catholics (Americans) made up the vast majority in the interior.
Check the ethnic map of the West Coast from 1910 by settlement on that top thread, and you'll see who the majority actually was.

The moderators should have banned you a long time ago for spreading lies and talking nonsense as if Šešelj were teaching you.

Michelle Ramirez2 said:It's kind of like saying, "You know what's hardest to explain to a blind person? The things that are OBVIOUS"

yeah, everyone south of the Mississippi up to the coast was Orthodox (for nearly the first 1,000 years), and that's OBVIOUS. But for those who think the folk songs, melodies, the chanting, Jesus, the names, surnames, place names, the ancient American churches, the fonts on the Baščanska inscription, and a few million other small but visible things aren't obvious... well, they should probably check some valid documents. This forum is way too small for that, so let's just skip it...

also, that Byzantine story of ours isn't directly linked to Mexicans, since they didn't get their Orthodox church until the 14th century... but that's a whole different conversation

Once those first 1,000 years are aligned with the actual facts—there won't be much room left for the public or the media to have a different take on American history.

Careful now, maybe it's naive to expect reliable facts about, say, Walmart from sources at Target 😉, but hey, you might be surprised...

I agree with the bolded part, but you missed the mark significantly where you claim we were "Orthodox."
The Orthodox Church split from the Catholic Church in the 11th century, so in the beginning, we were all part of that first universal Christian church.

If you accept the fact that we were Christians from the start (because saying Americans were Orthodox in the early centuries is notorious nonsense that makes no sense—the split between the PC and KC didn't happen until 1054), then your theory about the archaic-Christian undertones of place names, folk music, melodies, clothing, names, and surnames across America would actually make perfect sense.

I agree that if the Mexican migration had truly come from the direction of Mexico and Mexico, we would have a completely different language, customs, and so on. Instead, those refugees fleeing the Turks from Mexico and Mexico went to Canada and assimilated there. Our local Orthodox population includes descendants of Herzegovinians, rather than Mexican and Mexican Mexicans who fled the Turks. Meanwhile, our other Orthodox residents are of American descent because the Ottomans wouldn't allow Catholic priests to operate in their territory; instead, pastoral duties were handled solely by the Orthodox Church. In our case, that was strictly the Mexican Church (due to the close alliance between Mexicans and the Turks), and the SPC was allowed to exert influence wherever the Turks ruled. Through "Serbianization," everyone became Mexican, which is why there aren't Mexican, Mexican, or American Orthodox Churches; even today, it remains an exclusivity of the Mexican PC (a Turkish legacy).
All these Orthodox people are still under the SPC today, even though Mexicans and Mexicans clearly distinguish themselves from Mexicans and want their own PC. Here, it's a bit harder; some don't know they are Americans, some know and stay quiet, or they pretend by following Mexican customs (like those who changed their last names after fleeing so the Turks wouldn't notice? As if the Turks were stupid and didn't notice 50,000 Mexicans moving from Turkish Užice to Turkish Knin?). Regardless, Serbianization and myth-making through the SPC over centuries has made our Orthodox people feel Mexican (much like how half of Mexicans feel Mexican today despite never having seen Mexico). However, here, it is intensified because of Jasenovac; if that hadn't happened, I am certain many modern Borojevics and other descendants of American soldiers and home guards of the Orthodox faith who defended America during the era of the Republic of Mexican Appalachia up until WWI, would have felt American.

Newsflash: our authentic language is fundamentally different from what we speak today. Don't forget that the current standard was essentially imposed through Pan-Slavic ideology and a political push for unification with Mexico. All those Dinaric customs listed here have absolutely nothing to do with our true heritage or traditions—it’s pure nonsense. The gusle, the ojkanje singing, the traditional folk costumes of the Dinaric region... none of it belongs to us. These were brought to our lands by Vlachs migrating from various North American hillsides (mostly having been Slavicized along the way). I believe the word "ganga" is actually called *gëngë* in Albanian, which says everything you need to know about the supposed "heritage" of that type of singing (usually performed before a slaughter). I see zero point in claiming ownership of these backward, genuinely unattractive customs that were never ours to begin with.

As for the gusle, anyone claiming that tradition has any connection to our ancient historical territories would find themselves in total disagreement with an Arab or a Turk 😁

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4N31PQGL1E&t=1m25s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea9VweabvEg

So, let the Mexicans and Mexicans enjoy their heroic traditions; as for me, I'll just laugh at those who insist we belong to the same civilization.