Student-teacher dynamics vs. parent-teacher dynamics

It just strikes me as odd—she missed six calls from her mother, yet later claims "we all have bad days"...😲

Paul Wilson72 said:Kids start socializing practically from the moment they are born. Parents play the biggest role here—how present they are, whether they actually react to behaviors the child shows toward other kids before preschool even starts, and whether those traits lean toward being anti-social, aggressive, or possessive. By the time a child enters kindergarten, parents have already paved the way for how that child will ultimately behave. There is only a tiny window left where character can truly be reshaped; everything else is just fine-tuning. They might learn to act socially acceptable when the situation demands it, but their true nature will always surface whenever they feel they can get away with it, including later on in high school.

Since there is often a massive gap between theory and reality, we shouldn't expect much from family counseling or child therapy, especially once they hit adolescence. However, you can at least influence how certain behaviors are sanctioned. These kids aren't stupid; they know exactly what might fly with their classmates but won't work with a teacher, and what might pass with a teacher but won't hold up with the principal. If they realize a teacher lacks the actual authority or means to restrain them, nothing will change. I doubt anyone is arrogant enough to argue with someone like a principal, because they know the power lies with them—the principal is the one who signs off on suspensions or expulsions. Usually, everyone behaves themselves in front of the administration, unless the parents are somehow "somebody" in town, in which case anything goes...

It isn’t realistic to expect students who are causing trouble right now to suddenly become model citizens or deeply principled adults in a few years. Besides, anyone who had solid moral values instilled in them during childhood isn't going to wake up one day and decide to go mug someone or commit a crime just because it's Saturday and they're bored. This behavior started long ago, well before elementary school, during those times when parents simply didn't step in. So, regardless of how much people philosophize here, a school relying on mere paperwork is essentially useless. It's like trying to wipe something with sandpaper; it's just not going to work.

That said, if anyone has a positive story, I’d love to hear it. If you knew a student who arrived in first grade as a little wild child but turned into a genuinely kind soul by eighth grade or their senior year of high school, please share. Honestly, my instinct is sometimes just to say, "let someone else deal with them," because dealing with these types is exhausting for everyone involved...

On a brighter note, I have to brag a little. Last week, I spent some time with a group of young men who truly earned their time and attention, and ultimately, the recognition for their hard work. That is the one beautiful side of education—that we can still devote proper attention to the kids who deserve it, rather than just focusing on the problems that seem to dominate every meeting and daily routine...

Spot on 👍
Parents are the foundation. External agencies—like schools, the legal system, social services—are supposed to be the safety net that kicks in when parents totally fail...

Keith Wells2 said:Spot on 👍
Parents are the foundation. External agencies—like schools, the legal system, social services—are supposed to be the safety net that kicks in when parents totally fail...

My take? It’s better to get kids from broken homes or repeat offenders into a facility early on that can actually fix their behavior. Give them actual vocational training so they can find a job later. Honestly, it might even save some of them from terrible living situations. It beats waiting for them to beat up teachers in school or start fights in the streets. Then you just read about them in the news as robbers, thieves, or drug dealers, and we end up overstuffing our prisons and rehab centers anyway.

Maybe I'm being utopian, but I wouldn't waste tax dollars building more prisons. I’d put that money into institutions designed to actually rehabilitate kids and teens with behavioral issues—turning them into functioning adults. Long-term, that would solve way more problems than what we're dealing with now. 😉

Look, people here are sharing their personal stories, and honestly, reading this is gut-wrenching 🤦
The scars from bullying don't just fade; they stay with you for life and can even drive someone to suicide.

Emily Gonzalez51 said:Look, people here are sharing their personal stories, and honestly, reading this is gut-wrenching 🤦
The scars from bullying don't just fade; they stay with you for life and can even drive someone to suicide.

It’s pathetic how much teachers and school counselors drop the ball when it comes to bullying. You won't believe this, but at a PTA meeting where we were actually discussing the issue, my high school principal straight up claimed the problem doesn't even exist at our school. 🙂
I couldn't help but laugh, while the school psychologist and counselor just sat there looking ashamed.
I told him that, statistically speaking, that's impossible, and he should just run a survey among the middle schoolers to see the real numbers.
It’s terrifying. This 21st-century plague isn't being treated, prevented, or even taken seriously enough.
Everyone looks the other way, then acts shocked when things finally boil over.
I don't get it. What's the actual problem?🤷

In the end, isn't it all just about the money? Isn't that perfectly obvious to everyone? ☕

I’m looking for some perspective on a situation that’s been weighing on me. About a week ago, two students came to me at school to complain that another student has been relentlessly targeting them with the most vile insults for quite some time now. As I looked into it, I discovered they weren't isolated cases; there are at least ten other students, regardless of gender, who have been enduring this same pattern of behavior from her on a daily basis—something I had no idea about until now.
I sat the student down and let her know that I had heard reports from several peers regarding her actions, even quoting specific things she had said during my conversations with others. I informed her that I intended to meet with her parents and warned her that if she tried to act out further or attempt any kind of retaliation against those who spoke up, she would be facing an official disciplinary summons from the administration.
Not long after, the girl's father called my personal cell phone around 10:00 PM. He was clearly agitated, claiming his child was being unfairly targeted and stating that he wouldn't tolerate this, going so far as to threaten my very livelihood.
Despite his unprofessional tone and the incredibly inappropriate hour of the call, I remained calm and told him that he should discuss the matter with his daughter first. I asked him to let me know what conclusions they reached, suggesting that if the family could address her behavior appropriately at home, formal school intervention might not even be necessary.
It has been a week since that conversation, and while the parents haven't shown up yet, they did reach out to say they would be coming in next week...

wanderinggardener12 said:I’m looking for some perspective on a situation that’s been weighing on me. About a week ago, two students came to me at school to complain that another student has been relentlessly targeting them with the most vile insults for quite some time now. As I looked into it, I discovered they weren't isolated cases; there are at least ten other students, regardless of gender, who have been enduring this same pattern of behavior from her on a daily basis—something I had no idea about until now.
I sat the student down and let her know that I had heard reports from several peers regarding her actions, even quoting specific things she had said during my conversations with others. I informed her that I intended to meet with her parents and warned her that if she tried to act out further or attempt any kind of retaliation against those who spoke up, she would be facing an official disciplinary summons from the administration.
Not long after, the girl's father called my personal cell phone around 10:00 PM. He was clearly agitated, claiming his child was being unfairly targeted and stating that he wouldn't tolerate this, going so far as to threaten my very livelihood.
Despite his unprofessional tone and the incredibly inappropriate hour of the call, I remained calm and told him that he should discuss the matter with his daughter first. I asked him to let me know what conclusions they reached, suggesting that if the family could address her behavior appropriately at home, formal school intervention might not even be necessary.
It has been a week since that conversation, and while the parents haven't shown up yet, they did reach out to say they would be coming in next week...

You’re writing this in the first person—and honestly, if you were actually trying to handle this situation entirely on your own, I suspect that might not be the best move, for several reasons, I suppose.

Furthermore, I can't help but think it would have been wiser to contact the parents "officially" right away, rather than passing along the invitation through the child itself.

wanderinggardener12, mistake number one here is that if someone starts making threats against you privately at home, you absolutely should have contacted the police immediately.
Second, since you aren't currently cooperating with the school counseling department, you need to draft a formal letter detailing everything you’ve just written and send it in this specific order:
- City Hall
- Child Protective Services
- FBI

You desperately need a paper trail proving your father threatened you because it is fundamentally insane for a parent to call your house at 10:00 PM and start hurling threats... whatever the case may be. They don't have that right, and frankly, they likely know where you live, so please, think about your safety...
I don't want to scare you—it's probably just some frustrated loser who thinks he's a big man over the phone—but you must report everything and demand written confirmation of receipt!!

Nicholas King said:You’re writing this in the first person—and honestly, if you were actually trying to handle this situation entirely on your own, I suspect that might not be the best move, for several reasons, I suppose.

Furthermore, I can't help but think it would have been wiser to contact the parents "officially" right away, rather than passing along the invitation through the child itself.

Exactly—everything needs to be handled through official channels. Being cautious is paramount. Always make calls and insist on receiving follow-up documentation. There is a protocol that must be followed. If the parents fail to respond, the center must be notified because parents are legally obligated to respond to a summons at the school.
You can never be too careful.

Charles Murphy6 said:wanderinggardener12, mistake number one here is that if someone starts making threats against you privately at home, you absolutely should have contacted the police immediately.
Second, since you aren't currently cooperating with the school counseling department, you need to draft a formal letter detailing everything you’ve just written and send it in this specific order:
- City Hall
- Child Protective Services
- FBI

You desperately need a paper trail proving your father threatened you because it is fundamentally insane for a parent to call your house at 10:00 PM and start hurling threats... whatever the case may be. They don't have that right, and frankly, they likely know where you live, so please, think about your safety...
I don't want to scare you—it's probably just some frustrated loser who thinks he's a big man over the phone—but you must report everything and demand written confirmation of receipt!!

Exactly—everything needs to be handled through official channels. Being cautious is paramount. Always make calls and insist on receiving follow-up documentation. There is a protocol that must be followed. If the parents fail to respond, the center must be notified because parents are legally obligated to respond to a summons at the school.
You can never be too careful.

The problem is, a father can spin a narrative in a heartbeat—he’ll claim he only called as soon as he got off work because his daughter was clearly spiraling and in tears, and that he wasn't "threatening her job," but rather expressing his opinion that certain educators deserve to be fired, or saying he might report them to the school board, or hoping they lose their positions... or some other variation of that. It always ends up being his word against hers.

And then there's wanderinggardener12, who filed a police report and—well, nothing happened.

Regardless of how that parent chose to phrase things—calling a teacher at their house at 10:00 PM is just plain wrong. No, it isn't normal. Look, I get it, his kid is upset, but what exactly did he hope to accomplish at that hour? And then he goes and switches from singular to plural mid-sentence—honestly, who cares about the grammar when the behavior is this erratic.
I would absolutely make sure there is a written record of this encounter, and I say that based on my own lived experience.
The official report should be filed with the school board; you’d coordinate with the administration to draft a formal memo for everyone I mentioned.

Charles Murphy6 said:Regardless of how that parent chose to phrase things—calling a teacher at their house at 10:00 PM is just plain wrong. No, it isn't normal. Look, I get it, his kid is upset, but what exactly did he hope to accomplish at that hour? And then he goes and switches from singular to plural mid-sentence—honestly, who cares about the grammar when the behavior is this erratic.
I would absolutely make sure there is a written record of this encounter, and I say that based on my own lived experience.
The official report should be filed with the school board; you’d coordinate with the administration to draft a formal memo for everyone I mentioned.

It certainly isn't normal, but I’d argue that the sheer fact of it being weird isn't quite enough to justify calling the police.

I’m offering these suggestions based purely on my own experience, but at this stage, the final call on how to proceed rests entirely with her.
Regarding filing a police report, it’s a bit late to start playing catch-up now—though, as Nicholas King rightly pointed out, dealing with the police is often an uphill battle regardless—but as I’ve already laid out, the situation has shifted into a completely different animal than if she had just filed a report herself instead of letting the school get involved in the middle of it.
What we're looking at now is something that needs to be handled strictly at the school administration level.

I honestly don't get these parents. Is it some desperate need to flex their "power" and act like they actually matter? Or are they just arrogant enough to think they can bulldoze through anything with their connections? Maybe it's just pure vanity regarding their little "princess"—the one at home who’s supposedly "polite," "hardworking," and gets "straight A's." Dad’s just too full of himself to handle anyone upsetting his precious girl. If someone can make her cry, then fine, he can be an arrogant jerk and harass people at 10 PM. (God, I hope it's the latter). Twenty years ago, if someone had called this girl's parents into the principal's office, they would've been there in a heartbeat to hear what was going on—and she would've gotten two ear-pullings before they even walked through the door, because where there's smoke, there's fire.
That’s my point: schools still haven't "grown up" enough to handle these problems properly. Principals are useless (even with the law on their side and a clear procedure in place), but what can you actually do when you're dealing with an "influential" dad? Who knows what will actually happen, especially when the principal is up for reelection this year. It sucks, but that's just how it is. Everyone gets intimidated when someone starts making a scene, forgetting that most of the time, it's just all bark and no bite.

Jessica Howard5 said:I honestly don't get these parents. Is it some desperate need to flex their "power" and act like they actually matter? Or are they just arrogant enough to think they can bulldoze through anything with their connections? Maybe it's just pure vanity regarding their little "princess"—the one at home who’s supposedly "polite," "hardworking," and gets "straight A's." Dad’s just too full of himself to handle anyone upsetting his precious girl. If someone can make her cry, then fine, he can be an arrogant jerk and harass people at 10 PM. (God, I hope it's the latter). Twenty years ago, if someone had called this girl's parents into the principal's office, they would've been there in a heartbeat to hear what was going on—and she would've gotten two ear-pullings before they even walked through the door, because where there's smoke, there's fire.
That’s my point: schools still haven't "grown up" enough to handle these problems properly. Principals are useless (even with the law on their side and a clear procedure in place), but what can you actually do when you're dealing with an "influential" dad? Who knows what will actually happen, especially when the principal is up for reelection this year. It sucks, but that's just how it is. Everyone gets intimidated when someone starts making a scene, forgetting that most of the time, it's just all bark and no bite.

The sheer amount of aggression and the constant advocacy for violence that keeps bubbling up in your posts is honestly terrifying. You seem to be glorifying some imaginary disciplinary method from twenty years ago as if it were somehow a desirable model for us today.

If you came home from work to find a child crying and upset, I suppose you'd start things off with those "two preventive swats" 🤦 just because you saw a little bit of smoke? Or is that kind of treatment reserved strictly for other, evil children?

Nicholas King said:The sheer amount of aggression and the constant advocacy for violence that keeps bubbling up in your posts is honestly terrifying. You seem to be glorifying some imaginary disciplinary method from twenty years ago as if it were somehow a desirable model for us today.

If you came home from work to find a child crying and upset, I suppose you'd start things off with those "two preventive swats" 🤦 just because you saw a little bit of smoke? Or is that kind of treatment reserved strictly for other, evil children?

Hahaha, what a demagogue you are, seriously. Yeah, I was raised that way back in the day. They taught us teachers were like second parents and they were always right, even when they weren't. And yeah, I messed up once (I'm emphasizing *once*) at school and a note went home for my parents to come in for a meeting. My dad—who wasn't exactly well-educated—gave me two swats first (there was no official code of conduct back then). He went to the school and found out I had been running in the hallway and accidentally slammed into the geography teacher who was walking out of class holding a globe. She got bruised up and the globe shattered. Dad went out and bought a new globe with his blue-collar wages, I apologized to the teacher, forgot all about getting those two swats, and school life went on.
Your demagoguery in these posts is becoming totally irritating. Everything is always black or white, hot or cold with you. It's right on par with those demagogic questions of yours about "losers" 😂

Jessica Howard5 said:Hahaha, what a demagogue you are, seriously. Yeah, I was raised that way back in the day. They taught us teachers were like second parents and they were always right, even when they weren't. And yeah, I messed up once (I'm emphasizing *once*) at school and a note went home for my parents to come in for a meeting. My dad—who wasn't exactly well-educated—gave me two swats first (there was no official code of conduct back then). He went to the school and found out I had been running in the hallway and accidentally slammed into the geography teacher who was walking out of class holding a globe. She got bruised up and the globe shattered. Dad went out and bought a new globe with his blue-collar wages, I apologized to the teacher, forgot all about getting those two swats, and school life went on.
Your demagoguery in these posts is becoming totally irritating. Everything is always black or white, hot or cold with you. It's right on par with those demagogic questions of yours about "losers" 😂

But let’s set my supposed demagoguery aside for a moment.

Looking back at my entire post, you haven't actually addressed the most critical—and frankly, most interesting—point: if you were to walk through your front door after work, find your daughter in tears and completely distraught, and then receive a notification that you need to head straight to her school... would you have already given her two preventative ear drops just in case? Because, well, where there's smoke, there's fire, I suppose.

Nicholas King said:But let’s set my supposed demagoguery aside for a moment.

Looking back at my entire post, you haven't actually addressed the most critical—and frankly, most interesting—point: if you were to walk through your front door after work, find your daughter in tears and completely distraught, and then receive a notification that you need to head straight to her school... would you have already given her two preventative ear drops just in case? Because, well, where there's smoke, there's fire, I suppose.

Did you even read my post? Twenty years ago. If someone had called that girl’s parents into the principal's office, they would've shown up instantly. They wouldn't have missed it. And let me tell you, before they even stepped foot on campus, she would've been ear-marked for a serious lecture at home. You know how it goes—where there's smoke, there's fire.
I bolded my point for you.
If you’ve been following my posts, I’ve already made myself clear: hitting kids is wrong. It isn't discipline; it’s just a pathetic outburst of frustration when you've run out of options. It’s about parenting, plain and simple. I have never laid a hand on my child, and I never will.
I’d listen to my kid, probably feeling pretty frustrated, and try to calm them down. I'd tell them every problem has a solution. No way am I calling a teacher at 10 PM. Instead, I’d head straight to the school to talk to the teacher face-to-face. If I heard what actually happened from their perspective, I’d be crushed. My first thought wouldn't be blaming anyone else—it would be looking in the mirror and asking myself how I failed to raise my child to act that way. I’d realize I dropped the ball on the parenting front and I'd go out and find professional help immediately.
Is that answer any clearer now?🙂

Jessica Howard5 said:Did you even read my post? Twenty years ago. If someone had called that girl’s parents into the principal's office, they would've shown up instantly. They wouldn't have missed it. And let me tell you, before they even stepped foot on campus, she would've been ear-marked for a serious lecture at home. You know how it goes—where there's smoke, there's fire.
I bolded my point for you.
If you’ve been following my posts, I’ve already made myself clear: hitting kids is wrong. It isn't discipline; it’s just a pathetic outburst of frustration when you've run out of options. It’s about parenting, plain and simple. I have never laid a hand on my child, and I never will.
I’d listen to my kid, probably feeling pretty frustrated, and try to calm them down. I'd tell them every problem has a solution. No way am I calling a teacher at 10 PM. Instead, I’d head straight to the school to talk to the teacher face-to-face. If I heard what actually happened from their perspective, I’d be crushed. My first thought wouldn't be blaming anyone else—it would be looking in the mirror and asking myself how I failed to raise my child to act that way. I’d realize I dropped the ball on the parenting front and I'd go out and find professional help immediately.
Is that answer any clearer now?🙂

Of course I read your post.

In that post—much like most of yours, I suppose—you spend your time declaring those days from twenty years ago to be the "good old days" simply because "there was order," because teachers acted a certain way, students were different, and parents were different... as opposed to these supposedly terrible modern times where everything is awful and everyone is terrible, including the installation of these weird AC units in classrooms that only seem to cool down the "glamorous teachers in low-cut tops" (seriously, where? where exactly? 🙂), while the students in the same room are basically wilting in the hundred-degree heat.

So, here is my point: if those were such "good old days," why are you suddenly abandoning the very things that made them what they were? If you are glorifying an era defined by different pedagogy and different parenting styles, yet you simultaneously apply modern parenting methods yourself (which, let me be clear, is actually desirable and commendable), then you are either being inconsistent in how you judge the past versus the present, or you are being hypocritical—especially since you’re advocating for those "two stern lectures" for someone else's kids.

Jessica Howard5 said:My take? It’s better to get kids from broken homes or repeat offenders into a facility early on that can actually fix their behavior. Give them actual vocational training so they can find a job later. Honestly, it might even save some of them from terrible living situations. It beats waiting for them to beat up teachers in school or start fights in the streets. Then you just read about them in the news as robbers, thieves, or drug dealers, and we end up overstuffing our prisons and rehab centers anyway.

Maybe I'm being utopian, but I wouldn't waste tax dollars building more prisons. I’d put that money into institutions designed to actually rehabilitate kids and teens with behavioral issues—turning them into functioning adults. Long-term, that would solve way more problems than what we're dealing with now. 😉

That’s one way to look at it, but aren't there professionals who actually study this? It's common knowledge that pulling a kid away from their environment isn't usually the first recommendation. Instead, experts try to work with the child right where they are whenever possible. There are different levels of intervention—like increased supervision or part-time/full-time programs at a childcare center—that don't require totally isolating them.
Copied from this page
"The goal of this program is to support the user and their family in overcoming educational hurdles and social integration issues through socialization, rehabilitation, and vocational training."
There is also the option of being referred to a childcare center:
"A court (like a local or county court) may order this measure when they feel short-term intervention is necessary to influence a minor's personality and behavior. The court can send a minor to a childcare center for a set number of hours per day or for a continuous stay lasting up to 3 months."

Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I wouldn't sink money into building more prisons. I'd rather invest in facilities that actually focus on rehabilitating troubled kids and teens in a humane way, helping them finally become productive members of society.

You can't just decide a family is beyond help and ship a kid off somewhere far away, hoping some magic wand will turn them into a good person. This only works if we don't isolate them in these "facilities" that basically act like prisons anyway.
Sure, I agree we need to invest in these projects and institutions—because let's face it, some kids eventually have to be removed if nothing else works—but the real issue is that there doesn't seem to be any money to spend. Or maybe someone thinks things like gold reserves or redesigning the Flowerbed are more important?
It was supposed to be standard long ago for every school to have a social worker to help kids showing signs of trouble at home or behavioral issues. Failing to make that happen was a huge oversight. If you catch it early in elementary school, you have a much better shot at helping them grow into decent adults. By the time they end up in those "rehab" centers, it's often too late; very few actually find their way back.