Enlightened Jeff

electricdriver33 said:Is it just me, or is everyone else missing how much The Unknown is totally trolling enlightened Jeff and the whole idea of enlightenment itself... 😕
If nothing else, that opening post he made to start this thread was actually being pretty mild. 😍 😂

I mean, he straight up titled the thread "enlightened" Jeff...

Anthony Perez9 said:If that's how you want to take it, fine, but that wasn't my point. 😉

People have turned "reaching realization" into this sacred little fetish.

It’s like someone obsessing over being "cured" when they're actually just a hypochondriac. In that case, the "desire to be cured" is the actual sickness.

The only thing that makes sense is realizing you've been acting like an idiot the whole time.
Asking "How do I get there? What are the steps? How can I speed this up?" is just another hypochondriac trick to drag out the "treatment period" until death—which means never.

Convincing a hypochondriac that running from doctor to doctor (guru, books, saints, altars) is somehow "deeply meaningful" just lines the pockets of spiritual scammers who peddle their holy guidance at the local spirituality/faith/religion market for cash and ego.

***

Then there’s Krein’s "Watch Destroyer." He probably just gave in to total laziness.
That guy is even worse than the hypochondriacs. 😁

Summary: we've got spiritual

1. active hypochondriacs.
2. gullible believers who blindly follow authority figures.
3. lazy slackers.

The third group is the absolute worst. 😂

________________________________________
* slacker/lazy state.

Just a common way to describe that low-energy, lethargic vibe...

I don't get why you're coming for the slackers like they're the bottom of the barrel. If they were shaved bald and wearing orange, would they suddenly be more valuable to you? 🤷
Besides, isn't it better to have a slacker as a neighbor than some loudmouth who spends every weekend blasting country music or whatever other way they find to annoy everyone nearby... 😕 😍

Anthony Perez9 said:If that's how you want to take it, fine, but that wasn't my point. 😉

People have turned "reaching realization" into this sacred little fetish.

It’s like someone obsessing over being "cured" when they're actually just a hypochondriac. In that case, the "desire to be cured" is the actual sickness.

The only thing that makes sense is realizing you've been acting like an idiot the whole time.
Asking "How do I get there? What are the steps? How can I speed this up?" is just another hypochondriac trick to drag out the "treatment period" until death—which means never.

Convincing a hypochondriac that running from doctor to doctor (guru, books, saints, altars) is somehow "deeply meaningful" just lines the pockets of spiritual scammers who peddle their holy guidance at the local spirituality/faith/religion market for cash and ego.

***

Then there’s Krein’s "Watch Destroyer." He probably just gave in to total laziness.
That guy is even worse than the hypochondriacs. 😁

Summary: we've got spiritual

1. active hypochondriacs.
2. gullible believers who blindly follow authority figures.
3. lazy slackers.

The third group is the absolute worst. 😂

________________________________________
* slacker/lazy state.

Just a common way to describe that low-energy, lethargic vibe...

So where do the Jeffs fit into your little categories? The ones making a living off of

- seminars
- enlightenment intensives
- retreats
- podcasts and iPhone apps
- selling selfies
- peddling books about their "insights"
- posting those beaming, "enlightened" smiles on their websites

Where are the people actually earning money because they finally figured out who they are? To me, what these guys say often feels like just a remix of someone else's New Age mental gymnastics—pseudo-enlightened rambling that just leaves seekers more confused. They think they can stop searching because these Jeffs will use their texts, lectures, essays, and aphorisms to explain how "searching" isn't even necessary. Charging money to tell you how things work (or don't) is called one thing: business. Even if Jeff probably prefers to call it his "mission" or his "calling."

Sandra Morgan2 said:So where do the Jeffs fit into your little categories? The ones making a living off of

- seminars
- enlightenment intensives
- retreats
- podcasts and iPhone apps
- selling selfies
- peddling books about their "insights"
- posting those beaming, "enlightened" smiles on their websites

Where are the people actually earning money because they finally figured out who they are? To me, what these guys say often feels like just a remix of someone else's New Age mental gymnastics—pseudo-enlightened rambling that just leaves seekers more confused. They think they can stop searching because these Jeffs will use their texts, lectures, essays, and aphorisms to explain how "searching" isn't even necessary. Charging money to tell you how things work (or don't) is called one thing: business. Even if Jeff probably prefers to call it his "mission" or his "calling."

👍
On the flip side, Jeff, Steve, or whoever he's going by today, is still a lot more honest than these types:
http://www.nytimes.com/news/scandal-article-link ☕

electricdriver33 said:👍
On the flip side, Jeff, Steve, or whoever he's going by today, is still a lot more honest than these types:
http://www.nytimes.com/news/scandal-article-link ☕

Yeah... that’s straight-up blackmail.
Just take a quick look at the bottom right corner of Jeff's website to see how much he's actually pulling in. Between January 20th and February 2nd—just 12 days!—Jeff has already sold out two lecture halls, two small group meetups that aren't even pre-sold, and his private Skype sessions are fully booked. And all of that at just $40 a head. If he does just one lecture a month with 200 people attending, that's $8,000 per talk. So, you tell me how rewarding it is to spread some enlightenment...🙄

electricdriver33 said:I don't get why you're coming for the slackers like they're the bottom of the barrel. If they were shaved bald and wearing orange, would they suddenly be more valuable to you? 🤷
Besides, isn't it better to have a slacker as a neighbor than some loudmouth who spends every weekend blasting country music or whatever other way they find to annoy everyone nearby... 😕 😍

Look, I’d much rather live next to a guy stuck in the past than a rock star. Or a junkie.🙂 It’s just not ideal having one of those "enlightened" types in the family. That’s where things get messy. I actually have a distant cousin like that—really thinks he’s seen the light. He rolls out of bed at 10 AM, sure, but then he spends the rest of his life babbling. He found this group of retired intellectuals, and they sit around debating philosophy until 3 in the morning. 😍
His father is 74 years old and still pulling shifts at the plant just to feed this 42-year-old son who does nothing but philosophize all day.
The old man doesn't have issues in the bedroom, but he certainly has them dealing with his "enlightened" offspring!

http://www.otok-ist.comxa.com/razno221.html

I wrote a bit about this whole "enlightenment" issue over here:

Benjamin Taylor6 said:Look, I’d much rather live next to a guy stuck in the past than a rock star. Or a junkie.🙂 It’s just not ideal having one of those "enlightened" types in the family. That’s where things get messy. I actually have a distant cousin like that—really thinks he’s seen the light. He rolls out of bed at 10 AM, sure, but then he spends the rest of his life babbling. He found this group of retired intellectuals, and they sit around debating philosophy until 3 in the morning. 😍
His father is 74 years old and still pulling shifts at the plant just to feed this 42-year-old son who does nothing but philosophize all day.
The old man doesn't have issues in the bedroom, but he certainly has them dealing with his "enlightened" offspring!

http://www.otok-ist.comxa.com/razno221.html

I wrote a bit about this whole "enlightenment" issue over here:

So I guess WatchBreaker isn't exactly a loser since he actually practices self-control... how long he works or what he does when he's off the clock is his business and nobody else's. That's just called freedom, I guess... 😍

electricdriver33 said:So I guess WatchBreaker isn't exactly a loser since he actually practices self-control... how long he works or what he does when he's off the clock is his business and nobody else's. That's just called freedom, I guess... 😍

That’s exactly right. His father basically pulled him back from the brink—literally saved his life—and then made sure he was set for good by leaving him both that farmhouse out in the sticks and a condo in the city. Honestly, for someone like him, that's more than enough. $500 To the moon.

Oh, great. Just what we needed—another "enlightened" genius among us. Honestly, this guy is in a league of his own. Truly a special case. I honestly don't see why people are getting so worked up about this—it’s almost comical, really. We’ve been through this loop before, haven't we? It’s like watching a rerun of a bad sitcom where you already know the punchline, yet everyone keeps laughing at the setup. I was talking to a friend over at Starbucks the other day—just a casual conversation, mind you—and he brought up the exact same point regarding how much energy we waste arguing over things that have zero impact on our daily lives. And he’s right. It’s all noise. Pure, unadulterated noise. Benjamin Taylor6 seems to think there’s some grand logic at play here, but if you actually sit down and look at the data—and I mean *really* look at it, not just the headlines—the whole argument falls apart. It’s flimsy. It’s thin. It’s like trying to build a skyscraper on a foundation of wet sand. You can pretend the structure is solid all you want, but eventually, gravity wins. And then you have Lisa Morales4 chiming in with those predictable takes... honestly, it's exhausting. It feels like we're just circling the drain at this point. We need to stop reacting emotionally to every single little shift in the wind and start looking at the actual mechanics of the situation. But I suppose that requires a level of patience most people simply don't possess anymore. Everything is so instant now, so reactionary. We've lost the ability to just... sit with an idea. It's frustrating, truly.
And then there’s this guy... I honestly don't see why everyone is getting so worked up about this—it’s almost laughable at this point. We have people acting like we've never seen a bit of chaos before, but let's be real: the way things are being handled right now is just... messy. It lacks any kind of cohesive vision. I was talking to a friend of mine the other day—he works in logistics over in Chicago—and he was telling me how even the most basic supply chain issues can derail an entire operation if there isn't a clear head at the helm. And that’s exactly what we’re seeing here. There’s no direction. It’s just a bunch of people running around trying to fix problems that shouldn't have existed in the first place if anyone had bothered to plan ahead. And don't get me started on what Benjamin Taylor6 was saying earlier. I mean, I respect his input, I really do, but some of these takes are just wildly disconnected from the reality on the ground. You can't just ignore the fundamental mechanics of how these systems work and expect a different result. It’s basic math, really. It feels like we’re constantly waiting for some massive "force of rescue" to swoop in and sort everything out, but newsflash: nobody is coming to save us. If we want things to actually function, someone needs to step up and apply some actual logic instead of just reacting to every little spark like it's a forest fire. It’s exhausting to watch, frankly. Just exhausting.

What do people mean when they talk about the Himalayas or India? Honestly, it’s a bit much—all that lofty talk about spiritual enlightenment being tucked away in some far-off corner of the world. I live on a tiny island with maybe 150 souls total, and let me tell you, we have several truly enlightened individuals right here among us. It doesn't take a trek across the globe to find wisdom.

Every singer has their own audience, and every preacher earns their place in the world

No matter how uncomfortable it might feel for some, God knows why He allows certain things to happen. Jeff is... a trumpeter
He plays the role of the horn, reaching those very people that nothing else—and no other way—could ever touch;
he’s essentially prepping souls for that final trumpet blast when time finally runs out..
I wonder when people will instantly recognize the Truth, and when their internal compasses will be sharp enough to follow that magnetic Force of Rescue

I actually really dig his newsletter on non-duality. I love how he explains oneness by circling around the edges rather than just knocking on the front door—moving away from simple monism by interpreting oneness through the lens of multiplicity and all that. But hey, God works in mysterious ways; there are certain people who will find that exact approach makes everything click..
It's just like those folks who won't believe a single word a Bishop says unless his cathedral doors are plated in solid gold (EEK!) 🙂

In the end, it's all going to be gathered back into the One

Paul Jones7 said:Expectation is maybe natural when you're looking at something where success feels pretty much guaranteed, but how do you manage expectations when the outcome is totally uncertain—especially when we aren't even great at judging whether we're actually making progress or not?

In that case, maybe a better alternative to expectation is hoping. Though, honestly, it might not be that much better—it's probably following the same mistake, since hope is also just staring into a virtual world of an imagined future, which isn't really living in the present.

With our own awareness, we can dismantle and break down these mental states of expectation, realizing they're just byproducts rather than essential players in the process of following a path. They are just results of us imagining outcomes, but we don't actually *need* to imagine the result (the success) in order to pursue the goal. That necessity just doesn't exist.

The guy who constantly checks his compass against his actual destination is the one who's going to take the shortest route possible.

In that case, hoping is probably a better alternative to expectation. Though, honestly, it’s not much better—it’s basically making the same mistake because you're still staring at some imaginary future instead of just living in the now.

I actually think hoping is worse because it forces this "positive thinking" vibe. When you're working toward a goal, the first thing you should realize is that there aren't really "positive" or "negative" attributes to the path itself. Plus, hoping relies on some external force coming in to save us, which is always a bad move. It either knocks you off track or just drags out the whole process.

We can use our own awareness to break down those mental states of expectation, recognizing they're just side effects rather than essential parts of following the path. They come from us visualizing results, but we don't actually *need* to visualize success to stay on course. That necessity just isn't real.

I wasn't saying visualization has to be a conscious act.
I definitely agree with what was written here!

wearyhawk83 said:The guy who constantly checks his compass against his actual destination is the one who's going to take the shortest route possible.

In that case, hoping is probably a better alternative to expectation. Though, honestly, it’s not much better—it’s basically making the same mistake because you're still staring at some imaginary future instead of just living in the now.

I actually think hoping is worse because it forces this "positive thinking" vibe. When you're working toward a goal, the first thing you should realize is that there aren't really "positive" or "negative" attributes to the path itself. Plus, hoping relies on some external force coming in to save us, which is always a bad move. It either knocks you off track or just drags out the whole process.

We can use our own awareness to break down those mental states of expectation, recognizing they're just side effects rather than essential parts of following the path. They come from us visualizing results, but we don't actually *need* to visualize success to stay on course. That necessity just isn't real.

I wasn't saying visualization has to be a conscious act.
I definitely agree with what was written here!

I just wanted to point out that even in situations like this, people tend to build up expectations, imagining their chances and making assumptions. That irrational part of us is just as real as the rational side, I guess. It happens that we start expecting things if we perceive that there’s something we can realistically achieve.

Then there’s the other scenario—the "imperative." It’s that sneaky bit of "information" used to screw you over: telling you that time is running out, that it’s now or never. Either you reach enlightenment, or your soul is stuck in an endless cycle of reincarnating somewhere even worse. 😉But hey, the forces of light are helping right now! The odds are higher than ever! Enlightenment is being offered at a massive discount! 😉 Save your spiritual ass in the next few years, or join the crowd that’ll be paying karmic debts through another Kali Yuga, or whatever. 😛

wearyhawk83 said:The guy who constantly checks his compass against his actual destination is the one who's going to take the shortest route possible.

In that case, hoping is probably a better alternative to expectation. Though, honestly, it’s not much better—it’s basically making the same mistake because you're still staring at some imaginary future instead of just living in the now.

I actually think hoping is worse because it forces this "positive thinking" vibe. When you're working toward a goal, the first thing you should realize is that there aren't really "positive" or "negative" attributes to the path itself. Plus, hoping relies on some external force coming in to save us, which is always a bad move. It either knocks you off track or just drags out the whole process.

We can use our own awareness to break down those mental states of expectation, recognizing they're just side effects rather than essential parts of following the path. They come from us visualizing results, but we don't actually *need* to visualize success to stay on course. That necessity just isn't real.

I wasn't saying visualization has to be a conscious act.
I definitely agree with what was written here!

Maybe hope leans a bit more into the emotional component, while expectation focuses more on the mental side—though neither is really on "clean ground," since they both bleed into one another. So, hope isn't necessarily forced—think back to how much hope you had as a kid, and how unforced that felt. As for what you said about hope summoning a force to help... hmm... I can't say for sure if it does, but doesn't expectation do the exact same thing? Maybe the link is that clear vision of fulfillment that acts as a companion to a future realization, but then again, you can't have a vision like that without being transcendentally whole across all levels of the self. And thirdly... what "external" force? In the spirit of unitarism, there is no outside force; it's just as internal as it is external, since everything is all-pervading. 🤷

We're getting into deeper territory here; I'm just tossing these thoughts out there for you to chew on, just passing through.

wearyhawk83 said:The guy who constantly checks his compass against his actual destination is the one who's going to take the shortest route possible.

In that case, hoping is probably a better alternative to expectation. Though, honestly, it’s not much better—it’s basically making the same mistake because you're still staring at some imaginary future instead of just living in the now.

I actually think hoping is worse because it forces this "positive thinking" vibe. When you're working toward a goal, the first thing you should realize is that there aren't really "positive" or "negative" attributes to the path itself. Plus, hoping relies on some external force coming in to save us, which is always a bad move. It either knocks you off track or just drags out the whole process.

We can use our own awareness to break down those mental states of expectation, recognizing they're just side effects rather than essential parts of following the path. They come from us visualizing results, but we don't actually *need* to visualize success to stay on course. That necessity just isn't real.

I wasn't saying visualization has to be a conscious act.
I definitely agree with what was written here!

I guess once you actually bring something into focus, it becomes conscious—it's right there. It's kind of like how expectation stops being this subconscious reflex and becomes something else entirely. That internal observer we all have... they can finally see what's actually going down.

Paul Jones7 said:I just wanted to point out that even in situations like this, people tend to build up expectations, imagining their chances and making assumptions. That irrational part of us is just as real as the rational side, I guess. It happens that we start expecting things if we perceive that there’s something we can realistically achieve.

Then there’s the other scenario—the "imperative." It’s that sneaky bit of "information" used to screw you over: telling you that time is running out, that it’s now or never. Either you reach enlightenment, or your soul is stuck in an endless cycle of reincarnating somewhere even worse. 😉But hey, the forces of light are helping right now! The odds are higher than ever! Enlightenment is being offered at a massive discount! 😉 Save your spiritual ass in the next few years, or join the crowd that’ll be paying karmic debts through another Kali Yuga, or whatever. 😛

Maybe hope leans a bit more into the emotional component, while expectation focuses more on the mental side—though neither is really on "clean ground," since they both bleed into one another. So, hope isn't necessarily forced—think back to how much hope you had as a kid, and how unforced that felt. As for what you said about hope summoning a force to help... hmm... I can't say for sure if it does, but doesn't expectation do the exact same thing? Maybe the link is that clear vision of fulfillment that acts as a companion to a future realization, but then again, you can't have a vision like that without being transcendentally whole across all levels of the self. And thirdly... what "external" force? In the spirit of unitarism, there is no outside force; it's just as internal as it is external, since everything is all-pervading. 🤷

We're getting into deeper territory here; I'm just tossing these thoughts out there for you to chew on, just passing through.

I guess once you actually bring something into focus, it becomes conscious—it's right there. It's kind of like how expectation stops being this subconscious reflex and becomes something else entirely. That internal observer we all have... they can finally see what's actually going down.

It’s all just nonsense. I said it briefly to a high-ranking Buddhist once, but he wouldn't hear it:

The world is an illusion, right up until a horse steps on your foot.
As long as it's just a horse, maybe it’s not the end of the world.
But the worst case scenario is if an elephant steps on your knee while you're sleeping out in the wilderness 🙂

I’m with you there, Benjamin Taylor6! Thinking about oneness strictly on a physical level is just total nonsense, honestly.

I mean, obviously, if you consider that spiritual unity really does transcend our day-to-day existence—since we're all so much more than just meat and bone, I guess.

So, we’ve got this little bit of a muddle going on here...

Paul Jones7 said:I’m with you there, Benjamin Taylor6! Thinking about oneness strictly on a physical level is just total nonsense, honestly.

I mean, obviously, if you consider that spiritual unity really does transcend our day-to-day existence—since we're all so much more than just meat and bone, I guess.

So, we’ve got this little bit of a muddle going on here...

Do you have any actual advice on how to transcend all this? I’ve tried everything under the sun, but nothing seems to stick:

Maybe there's a piece of the puzzle I'm missing.

I haven't the slightest clue. I mean, the physical level stays physical—it’s just another great (if painful) example of that. Maybe there's some kind of expert in here who knows how to meditate through physical pain? Because I certainly don't. 😉

Paul Jones7 said:I just wanted to point out that even in situations like this, people tend to build up expectations, imagining their chances and making assumptions. That irrational part of us is just as real as the rational side, I guess. It happens that we start expecting things if we perceive that there’s something we can realistically achieve.

Then there’s the other scenario—the "imperative." It’s that sneaky bit of "information" used to screw you over: telling you that time is running out, that it’s now or never. Either you reach enlightenment, or your soul is stuck in an endless cycle of reincarnating somewhere even worse. 😉But hey, the forces of light are helping right now! The odds are higher than ever! Enlightenment is being offered at a massive discount! 😉 Save your spiritual ass in the next few years, or join the crowd that’ll be paying karmic debts through another Kali Yuga, or whatever. 😛

Maybe hope leans a bit more into the emotional component, while expectation focuses more on the mental side—though neither is really on "clean ground," since they both bleed into one another. So, hope isn't necessarily forced—think back to how much hope you had as a kid, and how unforced that felt. As for what you said about hope summoning a force to help... hmm... I can't say for sure if it does, but doesn't expectation do the exact same thing? Maybe the link is that clear vision of fulfillment that acts as a companion to a future realization, but then again, you can't have a vision like that without being transcendentally whole across all levels of the self. And thirdly... what "external" force? In the spirit of unitarism, there is no outside force; it's just as internal as it is external, since everything is all-pervading. 🤷

We're getting into deeper territory here; I'm just tossing these thoughts out there for you to chew on, just passing through.

I guess once you actually bring something into focus, it becomes conscious—it's right there. It's kind of like how expectation stops being this subconscious reflex and becomes something else entirely. That internal observer we all have... they can finally see what's actually going down.

Look, you’ve gotta have an assumption if you want to get anything done in this life. You have to be able to visualize it first. Seriously, you need to wrap your head around that concept completely!
The real issue with people claiming to be on a "spiritual path" is that they completely skip the most important part of the journey. They don't actually stop to audit their own progress or measure how far they really are from the actual goal. Honestly, if people were just more consistent about checking their own growth, we wouldn't see so many people obsessed with astral projection, lucid dreaming, and all that other peripheral stuff. Most of those things are just distractions that pull you away from the core experience. Instead of actually facing reality, people end up using these experiences as an escape hatch!

The second you actually realize what’s happening, it becomes conscious. It’s like that—once you catch on, expectation stops being this mindless, unconscious habit. You finally get that inner observer stepping up to watch the whole show unfold!

That’s the Truth right there! But honestly, that’s just one specific expectation. If we actually took a second to tune in and listen to ourselves a bit more deeply, we’d realize there is a massive mountain of other expectations chasing us around every single day. They constantly dictate our moods and how we feel, and half the time, we don't even realize they're there!

"Quote:"

Benjamin Taylor6 said:It’s all just nonsense. I said it briefly to a high-ranking Buddhist once, but he wouldn't hear it:

The world is an illusion, right up until a horse steps on your foot.
As long as it's just a horse, maybe it’s not the end of the world.
But the worst case scenario is if an elephant steps on your knee while you're sleeping out in the wilderness 🙂

I honestly don't get why people are calling out Fazlije like this. From what I can see in his posts, he doesn't even claim to be a Buddhist!
He isn't even pushing that whole "world is an illusion" thing, and honestly, I'm pretty sure nobody serious actually does. It's quite the opposite, really!

Anyway, regardless of what anyone says about labels, I honestly think this guy is the one forum member who’s totally missing from this PDF. Aside from his "informative" posts, his take on life is something you can actually learn from. Seriously, almost every single thing he writes is pure gold.

Sandra Morgan2 said:@ Daniel Castillo11 My deepest respects... seriously impressive recent posts.

As for enlightened Jeff and all his sermons, websites, podcasts, and whatnot—it actually reminded me of this joke:

God and the devil are looking down from above at a man who just reached enlightenment:
- He's saved, says God. He's finally enlightened; he knows exactly who he is.
There's nothing you can do to him now...
- Hehe, on the contrary, now the real work begins, says the devil. Now I get to help him
get organized, build a following, and preach everything he's discovered.

👍

As for enlightened Jeff and his whole setup—the site, the podcasts, all that—it actually reminds me of this joke:

God and the devil are looking down from above at a guy who just hit enlightenment:
- He’s saved, God says. He’s finally enlightened and knows who he really is,
so there's nothing you can do to him now...
- Heh, quite the opposite. Now the real work begins, the devil says. I’m going to help him
get organized, build a following, and preach everything he just realized.

Hmm. There’s a version of that joke attributed to Jiddu Krishnamurti. He used to talk about how God and the devil watched a man find the Truth and grab hold of it. God turns to Satan and asks:

"Does that bother you?"

To which the prince of darkness replies: "Not at all. I'll help him organize it."

It's a jab at religious institutions—all those hierarchies, dogmas, and massive buildings. Jeff’s talks don't fall into that bucket. Neither did Krishnamurti's. Why shouldn't someone share what they've experienced and then just be quiet? Sure, he charges for it, but that's just covering overhead. If he started acting like an authority figure or let people turn him into a guru, he’d be falling right into the trap of those religious hustlers and the general human laziness that craves a leader to follow. I don't think that's his style.

So, the joke doesn't really fit our Jeff. 🙂
But it definitely hits the likes of Sai, Osho Rajneesh, Maharishi, Saint Paul, Mahaguru, Muhammad, and those other fakes.

Anthony Perez9 said:👍

As for enlightened Jeff and his whole setup—the site, the podcasts, all that—it actually reminds me of this joke:

God and the devil are looking down from above at a guy who just hit enlightenment:
- He’s saved, God says. He’s finally enlightened and knows who he really is,
so there's nothing you can do to him now...
- Heh, quite the opposite. Now the real work begins, the devil says. I’m going to help him
get organized, build a following, and preach everything he just realized.

Hmm. There’s a version of that joke attributed to Jiddu Krishnamurti. He used to talk about how God and the devil watched a man find the Truth and grab hold of it. God turns to Satan and asks:

"Does that bother you?"

To which the prince of darkness replies: "Not at all. I'll help him organize it."

It's a jab at religious institutions—all those hierarchies, dogmas, and massive buildings. Jeff’s talks don't fall into that bucket. Neither did Krishnamurti's. Why shouldn't someone share what they've experienced and then just be quiet? Sure, he charges for it, but that's just covering overhead. If he started acting like an authority figure or let people turn him into a guru, he’d be falling right into the trap of those religious hustlers and the general human laziness that craves a leader to follow. I don't think that's his style.

So, the joke doesn't really fit our Jeff. 🙂
But it definitely hits the likes of Sai, Osho Rajneesh, Maharishi, Saint Paul, Mahaguru, Muhammad, and those other fakes.

My mistake, Jeff actually learns about the Light from Saint Paul, just like how the others learned about spirituality from Paul.🙂

Lisa Morales4 said:My mistake, Jeff actually learns about the Light from Saint Paul, just like how the others learned about spirituality from Paul.🙂

Of course. And I assume this is all backed up by scientific research arriving via FedEx (Alpha Centauri) straight from the Pleiades.😍

Anthony Perez9 said:👍

As for enlightened Jeff and his whole setup—the site, the podcasts, all that—it actually reminds me of this joke:

God and the devil are looking down from above at a guy who just hit enlightenment:
- He’s saved, God says. He’s finally enlightened and knows who he really is,
so there's nothing you can do to him now...
- Heh, quite the opposite. Now the real work begins, the devil says. I’m going to help him
get organized, build a following, and preach everything he just realized.

Hmm. There’s a version of that joke attributed to Jiddu Krishnamurti. He used to talk about how God and the devil watched a man find the Truth and grab hold of it. God turns to Satan and asks:

"Does that bother you?"

To which the prince of darkness replies: "Not at all. I'll help him organize it."

It's a jab at religious institutions—all those hierarchies, dogmas, and massive buildings. Jeff’s talks don't fall into that bucket. Neither did Krishnamurti's. Why shouldn't someone share what they've experienced and then just be quiet? Sure, he charges for it, but that's just covering overhead. If he started acting like an authority figure or let people turn him into a guru, he’d be falling right into the trap of those religious hustlers and the general human laziness that craves a leader to follow. I don't think that's his style.

So, the joke doesn't really fit our Jeff. 🙂
But it definitely hits the likes of Sai, Osho Rajneesh, Maharishi, Saint Paul, Mahaguru, Muhammad, and those other fakes.

I agree that Jiddu Krishnamurti doesn't fit that mold. In fact, he dismantled the very organization that was built around his persona. For reasons explained in one of his jokes, of course. But Jeff? He fits.

Why shouldn't he share his experiences? And why stay silent? Of course, he’ll charge for them just to cover expenses. If he clings to authority, or allows himself to be turned into a guru, then he’d be wrong—falling right into the trap of religious merchants and gurus, tapping into that general human laziness and craving for security in authority. I don't think he falls into that.

I'm with you on covering hall costs being fine. Krishnamurti was an international speaker, but people invited him to teach and made sure all his expenses were taken care of.

Jeff, however, has an organization that handles all of that for him, promoting him online (and who knows how else, since he isn't exactly a household name) and charging $40 per head for every single talk.

Beyond that, his frantic weekly schedule is pretty suspicious; it keeps changing from the moment you posted the link. Basically, the guy runs four different operations: hall lectures, small group sessions (private settings), Skype consultations, and retreats. All of them are $40 per person. The retreats are probably even pricier.

Just imagine... say Raman had posted Jeff's price list at the entrance of his ashram:
- Large lecture: $40
- Small group session: $40
- Private consultation in a little room: $40
- Retreat: $100

Raman would have said he turned self-realization into a business. But he didn't... he never took a single cent from anyone. He gave spiritual guidance as a gift; in fact, he went out of his way to feed those who came to visit him. For free.

Nisargadatta Swami lived by working at a newsstand. He sold tobacco. When he had free time, people would come to his house, and he would share his insights. Free of charge. That didn't stop him from becoming internationally known or his teachings from traveling the world.

If an enlightened being charges for their help, advice, or sharing—and does so through an organized system with even minimal administration—then they are living off their talk about self-realization. If, on top of that, someone like Jeff is frantically scrambling for cash, then to me, that is the most vulgar form of materialism there is.