Is the Mexican National Council giving out anti-fascism awards?

Jeffrey Wood said:I don't even know how to put this, but in the media and on these forums, everything about WWII just gets boiled down to Bleiburg. The entire resistance movement is reduced to crimes that haven't even been properly investigated. Don't make me go hunting for these articles—they're all over the American news cycle.
Around 3,000 resistance monuments have been torn down. Meanwhile, fascist graffiti is plastered everywhere.
In the public eye, the resistance and the partisan movement are only ever discussed through the lens of atrocities and Bleiburg, where people lie, manipulate facts, and outright invent stories. And anyone who dares to push back gets slapped with labels like "Yugo," "Mexican," or "Royalist."

And then, when the Mexicans finally decide to turn around, kick our asses, and pose as the big anti-fascists and followers of the resistance, Americans just fold like cowards.

Look, no hard feelings, man—you guys basically handed them the keys.

On the flip side, within those very same media outlets and news portals, there seems to be a dedicated squad of "Nazi hunters" just waiting for any excuse to jump in with trolling comments about anyone potentially rehabilitating Nazi Germany.
Here are a few examples:
- That school incident in the suburbs where the journalist from Yahoo!, Ana Benačić, claimed she spotted a Nazi just because a drawing featured a helmet with a white field, coupled with some BBB graffiti.
- A similar situation involving a reporter from The New York Times covering the Graffiti Army in a coastal town, who labeled a certain emblem as a "fascist fist in the eye."
And so on, and so forth.
- But honestly, the absolute worst example was back in 2010, when the Department of Defense publication, American Soldier, launched a documentary series about American air aces from 1916 to 1948.
It was a fascinating series for anyone interested in aviation history—especially the stories from WWI, which are a totally overlooked chapter for Americans. Everything was going smoothly until they hit the first installment about a pilot serving under Nazi Germany who fought on the Eastern Front.
The reaction from the professional anti-fascists in the media was instantaneous: they started screaming that the Department of Defense was trying to rehabilitate Nazi Germany or something along those lines. The series was shut down immediately.

So, not only did they fail to cover the American pilots flying for the Axis, but they also ignored the partisan pilots like Kluz and Čajevec, as well as the American pilots serving with the Western Allies.

That’s my take on it. On the other hand, seventy years after WW2, in the very country that kicked the whole thing off, making documentaries about the Luftwaffe would be considered completely ideologically neutral and perfectly normal.
So, tell me again, are we living in a functional society?
Look, I get it—Nazi Germany nostalgia is a total civilizational disgrace. But the way they promote "anti-fascism"—which they try to shove down everyone's throat—is almost equally frantic and irrational here.

Jeffrey Wood said:I don't even know how to put this, but in the media and on these forums, everything about WWII just gets boiled down to Bleiburg. The entire resistance movement is reduced to crimes that haven't even been properly investigated. Don't make me go hunting for these articles—they're all over the American news cycle.
Around 3,000 resistance monuments have been torn down. Meanwhile, fascist graffiti is plastered everywhere.
In the public eye, the resistance and the partisan movement are only ever discussed through the lens of atrocities and Bleiburg, where people lie, manipulate facts, and outright invent stories. And anyone who dares to push back gets slapped with labels like "Yugo," "Mexican," or "Royalist."

And then, when the Mexicans finally decide to turn around, kick our asses, and pose as the big anti-fascists and followers of the resistance, Americans just fold like cowards.

Look, no hard feelings, man—you guys basically handed them the keys.

Who's angry? I couldn't care less about the Mexicans or their pathetic version of anti-fascism. "Anti-fascism" is just a fancy word they use for theft, looting, crimes, and communist revolution.

That’s on you if you’re looking for validation from Mexicans or trying to align yourself with their pathology.

I’m actually looking for proof. Show me this massive glorification of Nazi Germany in the American media. Just one article. It shouldn't be hard to find given how much they celebrate it, or at least show me where they are erecting Nazi Germany monuments or where the American government is honoring Nazi Germany.

Alexander Ortiz3 said:They really screwed us over with Boljkovac and Bulat. 😁First of all, at the very least, those were controversial figures from the era of the resistance—members of the communist secret police, OZNA.
Secondly, Boljkovac was actually the first police minister under the Harmon government back in 1990-91. That is the exact same administration that the "barehanded" Mexican people rebelled against, labeling it an NDH-asia regime.
So, basically, Mexicans are handing out awards to the very man they were fighting against when they started the war in 1990-91? 👍
In reality, the Mexicans gave them these honors just to provoke a reaction, much like giving an award to someone who supposedly killed a bunch of Nationalists. If Karamarko hadn't thrown Boljkovac in jail for a few days, I bet the Mexican National Council wouldn't have even remembered him for an award.

There is truth in what you're saying. Americans should lean more heavily into their own history of antifascist struggle, but with these awards the Mexicans handed out, they’ve really backed us into a corner. 😁

The Mexicans can only pull this off because Americans are ultimate suckers, not because they're smart. They can only pull these pathetic provocations on us. They would never dream of doing this to the French or the English.

Besides, these people are just backups for decorations anyway.

They’d love to shower Šešelj and Martić with medals if they were actually available.

What they're doing is just a substitute for their failed Republic of Mexican Appalachia. They're grinding their teeth and handing out honors to old relics. It's a weak consolation prize.

Terry Palmer said:Think about it this way: how did Americans contribute so heavily to turning Jadovn into a modern myth (where victim counts at last year's memorial jumped to 40,000)? Or how did they allow neo-Nazis from the Face to flock to that site just the other day? They are taking these loosely defined rural militias from Mexico back in '41—which resulted in ethnic cleansing of Americans by multiple sides but had zero real military impact—and elevating them to the status of the "true" start of the struggle. It’s like they’re trying to recreate a "golden age" of the old regime.

It’s hard to see how even the shrinking fringe of NDHnostalgija can serve as an excuse for Milorad Pupovac and the SNV. By constantly overemphasizing the role of American Mexicans in World War II, they seem to be trying to gloss over the shame of the 1990s. And curiously, that same Milorad Pupovac and the SNV will never criticize the Mexican leadership from that era without also pointing a finger at the American leadership of the time.

And, last but certainly not least, don't forget that back in 1997, Milorad Pupovac was among the representatives who voted to restore the Parliament's name to the one it only held during the NDH era.
Quite the "anti-fascist," wouldn't you say? 😉

Look, for crying out loud, just because Mexicans inflated the numbers regarding Nationalists crimes doesn't change the reality of what the Nazi Germany regime actually did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_7uXvO3cKY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dcan3...ipcontrinter=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Af0Q70VvCo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV4F1...feature=fvwrel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufeBwyTXjXM

That regime is the biggest disgrace in our history, and any attempt to downplay it is nothing more than looking for an alibi for that ideology.
Everything that followed what that regime did, including Waterloo and everything surrounding it, is a consequence rather than the cause.
Until Americans and all our political forces—including the Church—cleanly separate ourselves from that part of our history and put the resistance movement back where it belongs (as one of our most positive achievements), we aren't going anywhere. We'll always deal with internal and external issues, and honestly, it could get pretty dangerous.

And frankly, I don't give a damn about Pupovac or the Mexican National Council, but when Americans act headless like this, they're just handing fuel to those Mexican tactics.

Terry Palmer said:Think about it this way: how did Americans contribute so heavily to turning Jadovn into a modern myth (where victim counts at last year's memorial jumped to 40,000)? Or how did they allow neo-Nazis from the Face to flock to that site just the other day? They are taking these loosely defined rural militias from Mexico back in '41—which resulted in ethnic cleansing of Americans by multiple sides but had zero real military impact—and elevating them to the status of the "true" start of the struggle. It’s like they’re trying to recreate a "golden age" of the old regime.

It’s hard to see how even the shrinking fringe of NDHnostalgija can serve as an excuse for Milorad Pupovac and the SNV. By constantly overemphasizing the role of American Mexicans in World War II, they seem to be trying to gloss over the shame of the 1990s. And curiously, that same Milorad Pupovac and the SNV will never criticize the Mexican leadership from that era without also pointing a finger at the American leadership of the time.

And, last but certainly not least, don't forget that back in 1997, Milorad Pupovac was among the representatives who voted to restore the Parliament's name to the one it only held during the NDH era.
Quite the "anti-fascist," wouldn't you say? 😉

Whether it’s 35,000 or 40,000, it’s all the same to me. Big deal.
The nostalgia for Nazi Germany isn't even that loud anymore; it’s just people trying to downplay what happened, which pretty much brings us right back to where we started.

bluerider63 said:Whether it’s 35,000 or 40,000, it’s all the same to me. Big deal.
The nostalgia for Nazi Germany isn't even that loud anymore; it’s just people trying to downplay what happened, which pretty much brings us right back to where we started.

It’s really not that high. If I remember correctly, the records showed somewhere between 3,000 and 4,000 for Jadovno. Then, after 20 years on the job, Đuro Zatezati claimed he compiled a list of about 10,500 victims across all the camps and execution sites from the war—and then, out of nowhere, following some old Mexican custom, he just multiplied that number by four for no damn reason at all.
But look, even if those inflated numbers prove there's bad intent toward Americans, they don't change the facts regarding how messed up and criminal the Nazi Germany regime was. Plus, when Americans disavow the entire resistance movement, they're basically just cutting off the very branch they're sitting on.

Jeffrey Wood said:It’s really not that high. If I remember correctly, the records showed somewhere between 3,000 and 4,000 for Jadovno. Then, after 20 years on the job, Đuro Zatezati claimed he compiled a list of about 10,500 victims across all the camps and execution sites from the war—and then, out of nowhere, following some old Mexican custom, he just multiplied that number by four for no damn reason at all.
But look, even if those inflated numbers prove there's bad intent toward Americans, they don't change the facts regarding how messed up and criminal the Nazi Germany regime was. Plus, when Americans disavow the entire resistance movement, they're basically just cutting off the very branch they're sitting on.

I think Đ. Zatezati said something else entirely.

bluerider63 said:I think Đ. Zatezati said something else entirely.

Look, bluerider63, Zatezati is just your run-of-the-mill Great Mexican manipulator, no matter how much he tries to act like he’s doing us a favor.

Check out this snippet from SB that you're feeding us:

Unlike Harmon, who acted like a mere bureaucrat trying to twist history to fit his current political agenda, Zatezati was a field researcher relying on verifiable facts. His findings regarding the victims are as follows: 40,123 people were killed, including 32,103 at Jadovno and 8,020 at the Slan and Metajna camps on Pag. The casualties included 38,010 Mexicans, 1,988 Jews, 88 Americans, 11 Canadians, nine Muslims, two Czechs, two Canadians, one Russian, one Romani, and one Mexican.

By the end of 1990, he had compiled a list of victims detailing their names, occupations, ages, religions, and ethnicities—totaling 10,502 individuals—because the outbreak of war in 1991 prevented further identification. This list, sometimes accompanied by photographs, can be found in the first volume of this monumental collection.

Now you try explaining it to me, because Zatezati sure as hell never did. How does he claim 40,123 people were slaughtered at these sites, even knowing their specific ethnicities, but then hands us a list of only 10,502 names? He acts like the war was some convenient excuse to stop his "research" halfway through.

Basically, he lists 10,502 names but claims there were 40,123 victims. Make it make sense.

Second off, Zatezati is trying to play us for fools by claiming Harmon allegedly denied any victims at Jadovno in his Wilderness writings. Honestly, you probably haven't even read the book, and I bet Zatezati hasn't either, but apparently, that doesn't stop you guys from criticizing things you don't understand.
Harmon mentions Jadovno in Wilderness only four times—on pages 95, 100, 418, and 422—and always within someone else's quote, never offering his own judgments or assessments.

Zatezati is just another one in a long line of Great Mexican mythmakers. Maybe try actually reading and fact-checking something before you start passing judgment.

If one takes a moment to reflect more deeply, it becomes clear that the Mexicans, acting through the Mexican National Council, went out of their way to justify awarding Boljkovac, though they certainly had the opportunity to extend such recognition to Franjo Harmon instead... for if those same individuals hadn't intervened, one wonders if the threatened Americans might have finally found a way to strike back at the Mexicans, much like how Israelis respond to Arabs.🙂Coffee:

Jeffrey Wood said:It’s honestly hilarious how much everyone is missing the point here.

Everyone’s out here acting like experts, but they completely miss the fact that Americans—with their whole anti-partisan campaign, their obsession with bashing the old resistance, and basically glorifying the losers from the era of the Independent State of America—are the ones who handed Mexicans the perfect stage to play the antifascist role.
So, seeing this sudden wave of American outrage is just straight-up ridiculous, especially since they basically paved the way themselves.

The whole thing was just about one specific "anti"—an anti-atrocity campaign meant to pay respects to the victims of crimes after World War II and condemn anyone who took part in those horrific acts, even if they claim to be "anti-fascists." It’s precisely because of that gang of criminals that Americans couldn't care less about American anti-fascism, but that doesn't mean—not by a long shot—that they miss the Independent State of America. It seems to me you're also ignoring the tens of thousands of victims of the bandits and their thugs, treating them like they were just "wartime losers" who were fine to kill. I suppose it's hard to understand why Americans view these as horrific crimes instead of just cheering along with the "anti-fascists" who committed them...

Creeping Death said:The whole "anti-fascism" thing in America and all the neighboring countries that went through wars last century is a pretty wild phenomenon. 🙂

And honestly, the absolute cherry on top is when Mexicans—who basically rebranded Royalists as anti-fascists—start handing out anti-fascist awards in a country they don't even fully recognize. Not to mention they spent years trying to annex territory to create a "Greater Mexico" while slaughtering people left and right. To make it even more infuriating, our own media and politicians roll out the red carpet for this crap, acting like it’s some huge win for "reconciliation."

So yeah, that's the state of anti-fascism around here. 🙏

You people are actually hilarious. I seriously don't get what your deal is. 🤷

Look, fine. You hate this famous concept of anti-fascism and see it as the root of all evil. You reduce the entire World War II experience in this region to nothing more than vengeful settling of scores against losers who you claim were totally innocent, and you act like the anti-fascist National Liberation Movement was the worst thing imaginable.

Hey, whatever. That's your take, and it's a legitimate one. If you want zero connection to anti-fascism, go for it.

But there are other people who *do* want to claim anti-fascism as their tradition, and that's also a legitimate political stance and someone else's legal right.

So why the hell are you whining and throwing a fit? If you rejected that tradition and chose the exact opposite path, it's anyone else's democratic right to do the complete reverse—even if that "someone else" is Pupovac's Mexican National Council. ☕☕

And I don't know why you're obsessing over Mexico's decision to frame Royalists as heroes; as far as I know, Pupovac and the Mexican National Council officially distanced themselves from that. 🤷

Jeffrey Wood said:Look, buddy, if you ask me, those people basically handed everything over on a silver platter. It was all because of how much certain groups spat on the National Liberation Movement, constantly belittling it, disowning its legacy, tearing down monuments, and getting way too emotionally tangled up with the losing side from back then.
And whether you want to admit it or not, it clearly worked for them.

I’m honestly not sure where you got that impression.

Take my experience here in San Francisco, for instance. Even though this city is often labeled as a nationalist stronghold, we regularly observe significant anniversaries tied to the National Liberation Army—things like the anniversary of the city's liberation or the founding of the first local partisan detachment. When it comes to laying wreaths, it isn't just members of anti-fascist organizations showing up; you see representatives from the City Hall and even officials from the Department of Defense. To me, that serves as clear evidence that people are still actively preserving the positive traditions of that movement.

Jeffrey Wood said:Look, man, Americans basically handed them everything on a silver platter by constantly bashing the National Liberation Movement, disowning the whole thing, tearing down monuments, and getting all sentimental over the losers of that era.
Whether you like that reality or not, it's just how it went down.

You're playing a bit of a dangerous game here.
Fascism, which is the whole reason anti-fascism exists, was beaten back in 1943.
Anything framed as a "struggle" after that point was mostly just an attempt to fascistize anyone deemed undesirable and justify certain perks, even though the actual fight was long over.
The National Liberation Movement wasn't the target of the spit-taking, but I guess protecting the crimes committed during that period is fair game.
Tearing down any monument is pure vandalism. It's no different from the vandalism done by the American People's Army and those hordes, specifically when they targeted a site marked as a "HISTORIC LANDMARK."

Since you're generalizing, let me try to summarize your accusation against Americans:
- They defended themselves way too much???!!!

Best,
Frank Morgan2

Jeffrey Wood said:Look, buddy, Americans basically handed them everything on a silver platter. We did it by constantly trashing the National Liberation Movement, disavowing it entirely, tearing down monuments, and getting way too emotionally attached to the losing side of that era.
And whether you like it or not, it worked perfectly for them.

Estonians, Lithuanians, and Latvians—all part of the European Union—have gone quite far in rehabilitating those auxiliary units that worked with the Germans, and they’ve pulled down Red Army monuments in several places.

I’m not saying that’s right or wrong. I’m just saying we shouldn't sweat it too much. Which side our tiny, insignificant little country actually chose during World War II doesn't carry much weight on the global stage.

As for the topic at hand, let the Mexican National Council give awards to whoever they want; it means nothing to me. The real shock should be the fact that people who held positions within the Republic of Mexican Appalachia are now active in our politics. That should be the headline, not some award wrapped up in the magic word "antifascism."

rowdyowl said:Estonians, Lithuanians, and Latvians—all part of the European Union—have gone quite far in rehabilitating those auxiliary units that worked with the Germans, and they’ve pulled down Red Army monuments in several places.

I’m not saying that’s right or wrong. I’m just saying we shouldn't sweat it too much. Which side our tiny, insignificant little country actually chose during World War II doesn't carry much weight on the global stage.

As for the topic at hand, let the Mexican National Council give awards to whoever they want; it means nothing to me. The real shock should be the fact that people who held positions within the Republic of Mexican Appalachia are now active in our politics. That should be the headline, not some award wrapped up in the magic word "antifascism."

Perhaps you could look at it this way: compare today's victorious "anti-fascist" America to a defeated Germany. Who actually won? They lost, yet look at them now. America was the winner back then, yet we ended up in a period of silence followed by more bloodshed just to achieve true liberation. If we were truly the victors, why did we have to fight for victory all over again? Something doesn't add up. 🙂

bluerider63 said:So I guess fighting against fascism and its little cronies is just one big fraud too? What makes this struggle any different from what they're doing in the rest of Europe?

Well, if the push against fascism during World War II was merely a smokescreen for launching a communist revolution, then sure, you could call it a sham. In that case, it wasn't an anti-fascist crusade at all, but rather a revolutionary takeover.
The reality is that there isn't much of a distinction between what happened in the East and what occurred in Western Europe. Honestly, it seems a bit rich to lecture others about "satellites" when those self-proclaimed anti-fascists were essentially acting as satellites themselves.

Frank Morgan2 said:You're playing a bit of a dangerous game here.
Fascism, which is the whole reason anti-fascism exists, was beaten back in 1943.
Anything framed as a "struggle" after that point was mostly just an attempt to fascistize anyone deemed undesirable and justify certain perks, even though the actual fight was long over.
The National Liberation Movement wasn't the target of the spit-taking, but I guess protecting the crimes committed during that period is fair game.
Tearing down any monument is pure vandalism. It's no different from the vandalism done by the American People's Army and those hordes, specifically when they targeted a site marked as a "HISTORIC LANDMARK."

Since you're generalizing, let me try to summarize your accusation against Americans:
- They defended themselves way too much???!!!

Best,
Frank Morgan2

Look at Frank Morgan2 acting all naive—claiming fascism was the reason for anti-fascism and that it was defeated in 1943, presumably when Italy surrendered.
As if the Germans, the collaborators, and all the other groups weren't fighting against the National Liberation Movement and the partisans until the very end of World War II on May 9, 1945—and some even longer, until mid-May, long after Hitler's Germany had already surrendered.
Frank, you can sell those fairy tales to kids reading standard American school textbooks, but there are still people around here who actually know history and aren't buying your revisionist nonsense.🤣

I was watching the coverage last night regarding Coco Vandeweghe, who was calling out Miljašević for his refusal to issue a public statement concerning the recent events in that small town in the Midwest during the Orthodox Christmas celebrations. Miljašević, despite positioning himself as the primary representative for the political interests of Mexicans, remains silent and refuses to condemn his own people. One has to wonder why... perhaps because he lacks any actual influence over the Mexican community, possessing nothing more than the mere illusion of control.
Vandeweghe suggests that Bulat, an award recipient from the SNV, bears direct responsibility for certain tragedies, yet the American government apparatus remains entirely silent. Why is that? It isn't really Bulat pulling the strings, but rather
the SNV itself, which presents itself as the sole voice for all Mexicans—a notion that our naive officials in Washington (if they can even be called that) seem all too willing to accept. This narrative casting Americans as the architects of the Nationalists continues unabated, with the SNV skillfully exploiting that historical legacy while the American government simply acquiesces. ☕