Do a therapist's personal beliefs actually matter?

mistymason1 said:Uh! Great topic. But pretty hard to reach a conclusion. Maybe redharbor9 will correct me, but I suspect that with psychodynamic approaches, you actually need to know as little as possible. At least at the start. As for whether they *should* know or not, it’s not really a simple answer.

Heh, a clash of beliefs is obvious enough; the choice is clear. Either they can accept it or they can't. But what about countertransference that the therapist fails to recognize?

There is no undisputed or clear etiology for either homosexuality or pedophilia. There are correlations and various hypotheses, but nothing is definitively proven. So, your stance that things are as you described is really just another belief, unsupported by anything other than prejudice (that's just how it is; there's no scientific proof).

Exactly. It’s a complicated mess. But at the end of the day, I guess no therapist should ever be crossing that line, regardless of what they think. Professional or otherwise.

Political correctness makes this a taboo subject nowadays, but it’s far from simple. Most gay people eventually face a conflict between their sexual orientation and the instinct to have children. Fifty years ago, there was no way to resolve that tension other than just pretending to be straight. Today, technically, you have options like IVF, egg donation, or surrogacy—but that doesn't change the fact that it remains a deep social and moral issue. Things used to be much more complicated than what today's quasi-liberal society tries to force on us through hypocritical political correctness.

Removing homosexuality from the DSM and the ICD isn't exactly without its controversies. As Beljki pointed out, it’s more of a consensus than some kind of definitive scientific discovery, since we still don't really know the causes behind homosexuality. I guess.

I wouldn't be surprised if most psychodynamic practitioners still view homosexuality as a sexual deviation. Technically speaking, that’s where it sits—specifically regarding homosexuality rather than bisexuality—within that same diagnostic category used for pedophilia. I guess it's just how the classifications work.

And what about "learned" biases?

I get the feeling most psychodynamic therapists still view it as a disorder, even if they don't say it out loud. Is that how you see it too? And what happens when there's a conflict between sexual drive and the drive for reproduction? Doesn't the solution usually just end up aligning with the therapist's own personal—or maybe even moral—convictions?

My take? It’s got nothing to do with which school of thought you follow...

And what happens when there's a clash between sexual drive and the urge to reproduce? Isn't the answer always just based on the therapist's own personal beliefs? Or even their morals?

That assumes things are way too linear. Like, "client has a problem, therapist has the fix." Sure, people do that in therapy sometimes, but it's definitely not the rule...

In a spot like that, you gotta dig into the options with the client. It doesn't have to be one way or the other. There's always a gray area, or you can just dive into their emotions and desires until they see things differently. That's how it works.

Essentially, what you’re describing will become reality if the proposed psychotherapy legislation passes. The current Secretary is pushing to define psychotherapy strictly as medical treatment. Until then, we remain stuck in this legal gray area where the wording is open to interpretation, which explains the current chaos.

That would be absolute madness. If they managed to push through the regulations for MPOs, I wouldn't be surprised if they forced this nonsense through as well.

mistymason1 said:Uh! Great topic. But pretty hard to reach a conclusion. Maybe redharbor9 will correct me, but I suspect that with psychodynamic approaches, you actually need to know as little as possible. At least at the start. As for whether they *should* know or not, it’s not really a simple answer.

Heh, a clash of beliefs is obvious enough; the choice is clear. Either they can accept it or they can't. But what about countertransference that the therapist fails to recognize?

There is no undisputed or clear etiology for either homosexuality or pedophilia. There are correlations and various hypotheses, but nothing is definitively proven. So, your stance that things are as you described is really just another belief, unsupported by anything other than prejudice (that's just how it is; there's no scientific proof).

Exactly. It’s a complicated mess. But at the end of the day, I guess no therapist should ever be crossing that line, regardless of what they think. Professional or otherwise.

Political correctness makes this a taboo subject nowadays, but it’s far from simple. Most gay people eventually face a conflict between their sexual orientation and the instinct to have children. Fifty years ago, there was no way to resolve that tension other than just pretending to be straight. Today, technically, you have options like IVF, egg donation, or surrogacy—but that doesn't change the fact that it remains a deep social and moral issue. Things used to be much more complicated than what today's quasi-liberal society tries to force on us through hypocritical political correctness.

Removing homosexuality from the DSM and the ICD isn't exactly without its controversies. As Beljki pointed out, it’s more of a consensus than some kind of definitive scientific discovery, since we still don't really know the causes behind homosexuality. I guess.

I wouldn't be surprised if most psychodynamic practitioners still view homosexuality as a sexual deviation. Technically speaking, that’s where it sits—specifically regarding homosexuality rather than bisexuality—within that same diagnostic category used for pedophilia. I guess it's just how the classifications work.

And what about "learned" biases?

I get the feeling most psychodynamic therapists still view it as a disorder, even if they don't say it out loud. Is that how you see it too? And what happens when there's a conflict between sexual drive and the drive for reproduction? Doesn't the solution usually just end up aligning with the therapist's own personal—or maybe even moral—convictions?

The rule of thumb is not to overthink it. That's why in classic psychoanalysis, the client just lies on the couch while the therapist sits off to the side so they don't even see them... but in the real world, it mostly just comes down to the therapist's own personality...

Heh, the clash of beliefs is obvious right away, so that part is clear. They either can accept it or they can't. But what about countertransference that the therapist fails to catch?

And the same goes for everything else a therapist misses... nobody is perfect and nobody has this flawless ability to spot everything and deal with it... therapy is just a process of two people learning together....

driftinggull21 said:

Essentially, what you’re describing will become reality if the proposed psychotherapy legislation passes. The current Secretary is pushing to define psychotherapy strictly as medical treatment. Until then, we remain stuck in this legal gray area where the wording is open to interpretation, which explains the current chaos.

That would be absolute madness. If they managed to push through the regulations for MPOs, I wouldn't be surprised if they forced this nonsense through as well.

And what you said... if that MPO stuff actually passed, I wouldn't be shocked at all. I did some digging into how things work over in Europe, and honestly, it's just a total circus everywhere. You've got countries where psychiatrists aren't even allowed to be psychotherapists—only psychologists have the monopoly there. Then you've got places where the psychiatrists hold the whole monopoly. Some spots let anyone who finishes psychotherapy practice, while in others, psychologist-therapists are ranked right up there with psychiatrists in hospitals. It's a mess.

Then you look at America, where psychologists fought their way into being able to prescribe meds. I don't get how or why that happened, or how that even works in practice...

It feels like there isn't a single decent legal model to point to, because the whole system is just a joke everywhere.

Take Canada, for example. Psychotherapy is legally defined there, but it's so incredibly rigid that it’s going to tank the number of available therapists relative to the population. Non-psychology specialists have to finish this massive preparatory course first, and to get certified, you need documented personal therapy, supervision... endless hours of it, and it costs a fortune. They're out of their minds.

Sure, it "professionalizes" the field on one hand, but on the other, it guts the pool of potential therapists, which is definitely going to drive prices through the roof.

driftinggull21 said:My apologies to the mods for jumping back in after being offline, but I have more to add.
It doesn't mean non-medical professionals can't perform high-quality psychotherapy once they complete the necessary education and meet all requirements. They are doing it right now, though they cannot officially call themselves psychotherapists; instead, they label it "counseling," even when it is effectively psychotherapy. I was referring to Rebecca Scott3's point, which is correct—any number of people claim to practice "psychotherapy." That is precisely why this field requires strict legal regulation, so there is a clear distinction regarding who is authorized to practice. I am speaking specifically about officially recognized psychological disciplines, not some fringe "XYZ" therapies.

I completely agree with you. I have nothing against someone practicing if they are truly qualified, but there has to be a set of criteria, specific prerequisites, and an authoritative governing body that officially certifies someone as a therapist. There also needs to be some level of oversight.

As things stand, you see people just deciding one day to write "I am a psychotherapist." We’ve even seen posts claiming, "I cured someone of psychosis and several other disorders after everyone else gave up on them." It’s the same kind of thing you see with those self-proclaimed miracle workers peddling snake oil. That's my take on it.

driftinggull21 said:

I wouldn't be surprised if most psychodynamic practitioners still classify homosexuality as a sexual deviation—which, strictly speaking, it is (referring specifically to homosexuality rather than bisexuality); thus placing it within the same diagnostic category (F.65) as pedophilia.

Roughly 90% of psychiatrists consider homosexuality to be a disorder.
Source: unofficial office chatter.

And one certainly cannot argue that 9 out of 10 psychiatrists are failing at their profession.

Now, if you look at it from a strictly biological standpoint—why males and females are predominantly attracted to one another—you could argue there's a "disorder" there. But if someone is naturally homosexual, regardless of the reason, that is simply who they are. Trying to "cure" it is pointless. Being gay doesn't mean a person is mentally ill; it just means they are biologically different.
The only actual mental health issues these individuals face usually stem from being rejected by society.

IMHO

"Quote:"

Kyle Lee7 said:I completely agree with you. I have nothing against someone practicing if they are truly qualified, but there has to be a set of criteria, specific prerequisites, and an authoritative governing body that officially certifies someone as a therapist. There also needs to be some level of oversight.

As things stand, you see people just deciding one day to write "I am a psychotherapist." We’ve even seen posts claiming, "I cured someone of psychosis and several other disorders after everyone else gave up on them." It’s the same kind of thing you see with those self-proclaimed miracle workers peddling snake oil. That's my take on it.

Come on now, Kyle Lee7—don't be like that! Some guy claims he can fix everything—including homosexuality.😂😂😂

Not too long ago, left-handedness was actually something people tried to "cure." To be honest, I'm still not entirely sure what the goal was there. Generally speaking, humans just struggle with embracing anything that falls outside the norm. Because of that, I have high expectations for psychotherapists; at the very least, their education should include a core lesson that their job is to support the individual, not to attempt to "reprogram" them or force their own personal beliefs onto a patient, regardless of what those beliefs might be. Doing the latter isn't just a matter of having a "flexible therapeutic style"—it’s a straight-up violation of medical ethics.

Kyle Lee7 said:I completely agree with you. I have nothing against someone practicing if they are truly qualified, but there has to be a set of criteria, specific prerequisites, and an authoritative governing body that officially certifies someone as a therapist. There also needs to be some level of oversight.

As things stand, you see people just deciding one day to write "I am a psychotherapist." We’ve even seen posts claiming, "I cured someone of psychosis and several other disorders after everyone else gave up on them." It’s the same kind of thing you see with those self-proclaimed miracle workers peddling snake oil. That's my take on it.

Look, you have to distinguish between saying "I cured them" and actually working with someone who seemed impossible to help. I can't stand it when clients thank me for "curing" them, "saving" them, or "rebirthing" them. I always use the bridge metaphor: therapists just build the bridge, but the clients are the ones with the guts to walk across it—plus they're the ones providing the materials to build it.

But hardly anyone gets that. It's something I'm still wrestling with... I don't know why I have such a hard time accepting that the success rests on my shoulders, or why it bugs me that people struggle to realize the success is primarily theirs. But that's a whole different conversation.

As for getting results with "lost causes," I don't get how you lump that in with self-proclaimed miracle workers. If you'd actually read the massive amount of professional literature mentioned here on the forum, you'd see plenty of famous cases regarding the miraculous recovery of "lost causes" that people always bring up—like Ericsson and George, or Linder and Kirk. There's a clear pattern where the cause of these successes is always unconventionality, and the experiences shared on this forum point directly to that issue within modern therapy.

redharbor9 said:I think this is a perfect example of why this whole debate just goes in circles... Just because one trait exists doesn't mean it wipes out an entire set of skills or professional competence...

I know therapists who view homosexuality as an illness, but when they’re actually working with gay clients, they don't bring it up or try to "fix" them—they just accept their orientation. There's a gray area here...

People here are obsessed with this nonsense idea that therapists have to be perfect, and even more ridiculous is the thought that they need to make sure a client is satisfied right out of the gate. driftinggull21 made a decent point with the barber analogy... you go, you aren't happy, you don't go back. Should a barber have to hire a model to demonstrate his skills before he touches your hair just so you don't walk away unhappy? It’s not about the money, but with a therapist...

This is that classic case of having totally unrealistic expectations for psychotherapy...

...honestly, if a psychologist or therapist claims that therapy is exactly the same thing as getting a haircut (where if you're unhappy, you just walk away and move on without consequence), then they're being a total fraud. Because if those two things are truly comparable, then that therapist isn't providing any real service other than acting as a trendy way to drain someone's bank account... they're basically just a luxury item for making money...
....I've always believed that a therapist should be doing much more serious work than that......to be fair, almost every psychologist I've met so far....except for one guy.....seemed to be at that level of just trying to pad their own pockets.....granted, I haven't been a patient of theirs, we were just friends......but I don't buy into the "expertise" of therapy if the person behind it lacks the basic personality traits to be stable, mature, and genuinely driven to help others rather than trying to dominate or manipulate them......

...Look, I'm not saying a therapist needs to be perfect......but should they really be a racist, a sexist, a patriarchal manipulator... an egoist, or a narcissist?
....Maybe that's asking too much, I guess. But can someone please tell me if you're honestly okay with a person seeking out a psychotherapist for help, only to have that person do nothing but take their money...
I mean... maybe that's fine with you guys... but it isn't for me. Because if that's the case, it means the whole profession is just smoke and mirrors... that there's absolutely nothing behind it... nothing meant to actually help the person...
.....If that's true, then a hair stylist is actually better... or at least cheaper... by anywhere from three to fifteen times. I mean, a haircut might cost $20 at some places and $80 at the really good ones... but you aren't paying $250 at just any salon... unless you're hitting up some high-end Hollywood spot...

Therapy is a deeply serious undertaking, both for the therapist and the client alike.

It seems like many people on this thread—including those who have been on both sides of the couch—are still stuck on the idea that therapists need to be flawless. There’s this notion that they should be perfect not just in the office, but in their private lives too, as if being human would somehow compromise their ability to work. But I know plenty of professionals who function incredibly well precisely because they aren't perfect; they admit they're constantly working on themselves, just like anyone else...

As for the billing aspect... I haven't noticed anyone else being judged for working for a paycheck or having a career that pays the bills.

....maybe it's unrealistic to expect more....but can someone tell me if you're truly okay with seeing a psychotherapist who does nothing more than take your money......

That’s why you start with an initial consultation. You lay out your concerns, learn how the process works, discuss what you expect from them, and what they expect from you. From there, you both decide if it's a good fit to move forward together.

Rebecca Scott3 said:...honestly, if a psychologist or therapist claims that therapy is exactly the same thing as getting a haircut (where if you're unhappy, you just walk away and move on without consequence), then they're being a total fraud. Because if those two things are truly comparable, then that therapist isn't providing any real service other than acting as a trendy way to drain someone's bank account... they're basically just a luxury item for making money...
....I've always believed that a therapist should be doing much more serious work than that......to be fair, almost every psychologist I've met so far....except for one guy.....seemed to be at that level of just trying to pad their own pockets.....granted, I haven't been a patient of theirs, we were just friends......but I don't buy into the "expertise" of therapy if the person behind it lacks the basic personality traits to be stable, mature, and genuinely driven to help others rather than trying to dominate or manipulate them......

...Look, I'm not saying a therapist needs to be perfect......but should they really be a racist, a sexist, a patriarchal manipulator... an egoist, or a narcissist?
....Maybe that's asking too much, I guess. But can someone please tell me if you're honestly okay with a person seeking out a psychotherapist for help, only to have that person do nothing but take their money...
I mean... maybe that's fine with you guys... but it isn't for me. Because if that's the case, it means the whole profession is just smoke and mirrors... that there's absolutely nothing behind it... nothing meant to actually help the person...
.....If that's true, then a hair stylist is actually better... or at least cheaper... by anywhere from three to fifteen times. I mean, a haircut might cost $20 at some places and $80 at the really good ones... but you aren't paying $250 at just any salon... unless you're hitting up some high-end Hollywood spot...

You’re gonna stay stuck like this until you actually start reading what people write instead of just looking for everyone to agree with you...

Most of your points have already been shut down with solid arguments (go read driftinggull21 again) and clear explanations, but you just keep circling back to the same tired ideas without ever budging...

Michelle Evans said:Therapy is a deeply serious undertaking, both for the therapist and the client alike.

It seems like many people on this thread—including those who have been on both sides of the couch—are still stuck on the idea that therapists need to be flawless. There’s this notion that they should be perfect not just in the office, but in their private lives too, as if being human would somehow compromise their ability to work. But I know plenty of professionals who function incredibly well precisely because they aren't perfect; they admit they're constantly working on themselves, just like anyone else...

As for the billing aspect... I haven't noticed anyone else being judged for working for a paycheck or having a career that pays the bills.

....maybe it's unrealistic to expect more....but can someone tell me if you're truly okay with seeing a psychotherapist who does nothing more than take your money......

That’s why you start with an initial consultation. You lay out your concerns, learn how the process works, discuss what you expect from them, and what they expect from you. From there, you both decide if it's a good fit to move forward together.

Exactly. And nobody even bothers to mention one of the biggest rules for keeping a therapist sane: don't be a therapist 24/7. You need to step away from the job during your free time and actually live your life like a normal person...

From where I'm sitting, this whole discussion is heading toward a place where therapists aren't allowed to be human beings outside of their sessions...

It honestly fascinates me how people will tolerate some jerk acting like an idiot once he takes off his tie, but they expect mental health pros to maintain perfect professional behavior 24/7...

And regarding the billing... I haven't noticed anyone else being expected to work for free or pretend their job isn't their livelihood.

I think the real issue here is just pure frustration over prices. Hardly anyone understands the massive grind it takes to become a therapist, the cost of training, the endless continuing education, and just how hard the work actually is. But the ones complaining the loudest are usually the same people spending $133 on makeup or $833 on shoes, or taking out loans just to go on a ski trip, etc.

That’s why you do an intake interview at the start of therapy. You lay out the problem, get the lowdown on how the process works, what you want from them, and what they expect from you. Then, both sides decide if they actually want to work together.

And that’s all there is to it.🙂

So, about that barber guy who keeps twisting my words...

Look, a psychotherapist is just a pro. Just like a plumber, a surgeon, a chef, a teacher, or a contractor. We’re the clients. We pay the bills, and if we aren't feeling it, we move on. If I don't like a guy, it doesn't mean he sucks—it just means he wasn't for me. Someone else might think he's great. It's that simple.

Take this for example: three years ago, I messed up my head and went to see a neurologist. I wasn't happy with her because I felt like I had to basically tell her how to do her job just to see any progress. So, I walked out and found someone else. End of story. Some people love her, but she didn't click with me and I didn't feel like she could actually help. Same thing would've happened if I'd gone to a private clinic and paid out of pocket—if the service isn't worth the price tag, you leave and find a better deal elsewhere.

The point isn't about the specific job title; it's about how professional services work in general.

redharbor9 said:And what you said... if that MPO stuff actually passed, I wouldn't be shocked at all. I did some digging into how things work over in Europe, and honestly, it's just a total circus everywhere. You've got countries where psychiatrists aren't even allowed to be psychotherapists—only psychologists have the monopoly there. Then you've got places where the psychiatrists hold the whole monopoly. Some spots let anyone who finishes psychotherapy practice, while in others, psychologist-therapists are ranked right up there with psychiatrists in hospitals. It's a mess.

Then you look at America, where psychologists fought their way into being able to prescribe meds. I don't get how or why that happened, or how that even works in practice...

It feels like there isn't a single decent legal model to point to, because the whole system is just a joke everywhere.

Take Canada, for example. Psychotherapy is legally defined there, but it's so incredibly rigid that it’s going to tank the number of available therapists relative to the population. Non-psychology specialists have to finish this massive preparatory course first, and to get certified, you need documented personal therapy, supervision... endless hours of it, and it costs a fortune. They're out of their minds.

Sure, it "professionalizes" the field on one hand, but on the other, it guts the pool of potential therapists, which is definitely going to drive prices through the roof.

My take? They have to pass the same rigorous board exams and earn their licenses just like everyone else. No one is born with that level of expertise; it’s something you have to actually work for and acquire through years of study.

redharbor9 said:Exactly. And nobody even bothers to mention one of the biggest rules for keeping a therapist sane: don't be a therapist 24/7. You need to step away from the job during your free time and actually live your life like a normal person...

From where I'm sitting, this whole discussion is heading toward a place where therapists aren't allowed to be human beings outside of their sessions...

It honestly fascinates me how people will tolerate some jerk acting like an idiot once he takes off his tie, but they expect mental health pros to maintain perfect professional behavior 24/7...

And regarding the billing... I haven't noticed anyone else being expected to work for free or pretend their job isn't their livelihood.

I think the real issue here is just pure frustration over prices. Hardly anyone understands the massive grind it takes to become a therapist, the cost of training, the endless continuing education, and just how hard the work actually is. But the ones complaining the loudest are usually the same people spending $133 on makeup or $833 on shoes, or taking out loans just to go on a ski trip, etc.

That’s why you do an intake interview at the start of therapy. You lay out the problem, get the lowdown on how the process works, what you want from them, and what they expect from you. Then, both sides decide if they actually want to work together.

And that’s all there is to it.🙂

Oh, please—that really comes down to them and their own ability to draw a line between work and life. It would actually be pretty tragic if they were expected to be "on" 24/7 for just one client; if that happened, nobody would actually benefit...

I think the real issue here is just pure frustration over the price tag. Very few people actually understand the grueling process a therapist goes through to get certified—the sheer cost of training, the endless continuing education, and how taxing this job truly is. But, in my experience, the loudest critics are usually the ones who spend $133 on designer makeup or $833 on high-end shoes, or even take out loans just to go on a luxury ski trip.

I'm with you there—the second money is involved, people get incredibly sensitive. Especially when it's for mental health! People act like paying for therapy is just throwing cash down the drain, which is honestly wild...🙄

goldenscout14 said:My take? They have to pass the same rigorous board exams and earn their licenses just like everyone else. No one is born with that level of expertise; it’s something you have to actually work for and acquire through years of study.

I’m talking about how this actually works on the ground, not just some theoretical way they 🙂 I tried looking for an actual training program or a list of what they can actually do, but I can't find anything... it's all too vague for me to wrap my head around...

I'm ready to get to work. Just send over the text you need me to transform, and I'll handle the rest—reworking everything into a natural, conversational American voice while sticking strictly to your substitution rules. I'll make sure the setting feels right at home in the States and that the tone stays true to the original poster's personality. Standing by for your first post.

redharbor9 said:So, about that barber guy who keeps twisting my words...

Look, a psychotherapist is just a pro. Just like a plumber, a surgeon, a chef, a teacher, or a contractor. We’re the clients. We pay the bills, and if we aren't feeling it, we move on. If I don't like a guy, it doesn't mean he sucks—it just means he wasn't for me. Someone else might think he's great. It's that simple.

Take this for example: three years ago, I messed up my head and went to see a neurologist. I wasn't happy with her because I felt like I had to basically tell her how to do her job just to see any progress. So, I walked out and found someone else. End of story. Some people love her, but she didn't click with me and I didn't feel like she could actually help. Same thing would've happened if I'd gone to a private clinic and paid out of pocket—if the service isn't worth the price tag, you leave and find a better deal elsewhere.

The point isn't about the specific job title; it's about how professional services work in general.

Just because someone else messes up doesn't mean it’s acceptable when a psychologist or therapist gets it wrong. It's one thing if a regular person slips up, but when those mistakes aren't just accidents—when they're actually rooted in their own deep-seated biases or beliefs—that’s a whole different story. That's where you start questioning if they're even legitimate. I mean, we're talking about someone who holds a master's degree and is out here running therapy sessions. If their core perspective is flawed, how can they be trusted to guide anyone?
You can’t honestly sit there and tell me that’s the same thing as just getting a bad haircut. I mean, seriously? It’s like saying a botched hairstyle is comparable to a young woman being sent right back into the hands of an abusive husband she had already moved away from. She trusted him—she actually believed he knew what he was doing when she listened to him—only to end up in the ER a few days later with injuries. There is no comparison. One is a minor annoyance; the other is a life-altering tragedy.
Imagine this scenario: a school psychologist—someone who’s put in the work to earn their Master's degree—is sitting down for a session with a student. During that conversation, the kid opens up and reveals they’re planning to take their own life. But instead of stepping up, the therapist starts preaching. They start throwing around all this stuff about God, hell, and sin, basically using fear tactics to lecture the kid. Because they're more focused on those religious warnings than actual clinical intervention, they end up just shutting the kid out entirely. And because that professional failed to act, the child goes on to take their own life. It's a terrifying breakdown of how things should work.
So... was the kid actually in the wrong? I mean, should they have just gone out and hunted down some other therapist? Like, grab their own cash out of a student budget and just pay to move on? It’s a tough one.
....
I mean, honestly... how is it that nobody in America thinks we need actual regulations in place? We really need to figure out how to stop these bullies from using their positions in society to harass people under the guise of "treating" homosexuality. It’s just wrong that they can abuse their authority like that without any oversight.
Do you really think people who get locked up and "treated" in those places should be expected to just find their own way out? I mean, we’re talking about psychiatric wards—basically prisons under a different name. Where exactly were they keeping that young girl while they tried to "cure" her of being gay? It's hard to imagine someone finding an exit when they're held in a place like that.
I mean, seriously... where exactly was the oversight in all of this?
From what I can tell, it seems like psychologists around here only head off to supervision when they feel like they have some extra cash lying around—you know, basically whenever they decide it’s actually worth parting with their own money.
....
I’ve never actually sat on a therapist's couch myself... but I have plenty of friends and acquaintances who hold their master's and doctor degrees in psychology. I also know quite a few people who are currently in therapy. Honestly, after hearing about the sheer volume of issues people deal with, it’s hard to wrap my head around the fact that there isn't more oversight in place. You'd think there would be stricter regulations governing the practice, especially when it comes to ensuring patients have a right to know exactly who is sitting across from them providing that care.

Maybe I didn't mean everything I threw out there in that list... honestly, it was mostly just food for thought. A little bit of a provocation to get things moving... but, well...
Honestly, I couldn’t imagine ever stepping foot in a place run by someone who’s a religious fanatic, a racist, or stuck in that old-school patriarchal mindset. To me, those things just don't mesh with how I live my life. It’s hard to wrap my head around how anyone could hold those views while still claiming to respect basic human rights and how the world actually works today. It's just a total mismatch with my values.

I honestly don't think private psychotherapy is accessible to the average person here in the States. And let's be real—it’s definitely not cheap. It’s certainly not like dropping a few bucks at a local barbershop; it’s way more than that. For most people, the cost is just eye-watering, making it something only a small fraction of the population can actually afford. The way the system is set up feels pretty broken, too. The government basically covers a handful of sessions a year, but usually only for those who aren't even in the workforce. That’s such a tiny percentage of people. Everyone else is just left to figure it out on their own. Most people end up just heading to their primary care doctor, getting a prescription for some meds, and calling it a day. That’s really where the support ends.

redharbor9 said:You’re gonna stay stuck like this until you actually start reading what people write instead of just looking for everyone to agree with you...

Most of your points have already been shut down with solid arguments (go read driftinggull21 again) and clear explanations, but you just keep circling back to the same tired ideas without ever budging...

...okay... maybe you've got a point there. It’s entirely possible I’m just skimming right past those high-quality responses without even realizing it. Could you do me a huge favor and point them out? Just highlight the ones you mean... specifically pull them out for me. Please... I’m reading through everything, but I'm just not seeing them.🤷

Rebecca Scott3 said:I'm ready to get to work. Just send over the text you need me to transform, and I'll handle the rest—reworking everything into a natural, conversational American voice while sticking strictly to your substitution rules. I'll make sure the setting feels right at home in the States and that the tone stays true to the original poster's personality. Standing by for your first post.

Just because someone else messes up doesn't mean it’s acceptable when a psychologist or therapist gets it wrong. It's one thing if a regular person slips up, but when those mistakes aren't just accidents—when they're actually rooted in their own deep-seated biases or beliefs—that’s a whole different story. That's where you start questioning if they're even legitimate. I mean, we're talking about someone who holds a master's degree and is out here running therapy sessions. If their core perspective is flawed, how can they be trusted to guide anyone?
You can’t honestly sit there and tell me that’s the same thing as just getting a bad haircut. I mean, seriously? It’s like saying a botched hairstyle is comparable to a young woman being sent right back into the hands of an abusive husband she had already moved away from. She trusted him—she actually believed he knew what he was doing when she listened to him—only to end up in the ER a few days later with injuries. There is no comparison. One is a minor annoyance; the other is a life-altering tragedy.
Imagine this scenario: a school psychologist—someone who’s put in the work to earn their Master's degree—is sitting down for a session with a student. During that conversation, the kid opens up and reveals they’re planning to take their own life. But instead of stepping up, the therapist starts preaching. They start throwing around all this stuff about God, hell, and sin, basically using fear tactics to lecture the kid. Because they're more focused on those religious warnings than actual clinical intervention, they end up just shutting the kid out entirely. And because that professional failed to act, the child goes on to take their own life. It's a terrifying breakdown of how things should work.
So... was the kid actually in the wrong? I mean, should they have just gone out and hunted down some other therapist? Like, grab their own cash out of a student budget and just pay to move on? It’s a tough one.
....
I mean, honestly... how is it that nobody in America thinks we need actual regulations in place? We really need to figure out how to stop these bullies from using their positions in society to harass people under the guise of "treating" homosexuality. It’s just wrong that they can abuse their authority like that without any oversight.
Do you really think people who get locked up and "treated" in those places should be expected to just find their own way out? I mean, we’re talking about psychiatric wards—basically prisons under a different name. Where exactly were they keeping that young girl while they tried to "cure" her of being gay? It's hard to imagine someone finding an exit when they're held in a place like that.
I mean, seriously... where exactly was the oversight in all of this?
From what I can tell, it seems like psychologists around here only head off to supervision when they feel like they have some extra cash lying around—you know, basically whenever they decide it’s actually worth parting with their own money.
....
I’ve never actually sat on a therapist's couch myself... but I have plenty of friends and acquaintances who hold their master's and doctor degrees in psychology. I also know quite a few people who are currently in therapy. Honestly, after hearing about the sheer volume of issues people deal with, it’s hard to wrap my head around the fact that there isn't more oversight in place. You'd think there would be stricter regulations governing the practice, especially when it comes to ensuring patients have a right to know exactly who is sitting across from them providing that care.

Maybe I didn't mean everything I threw out there in that list... honestly, it was mostly just food for thought. A little bit of a provocation to get things moving... but, well...
Honestly, I couldn’t imagine ever stepping foot in a place run by someone who’s a religious fanatic, a racist, or stuck in that old-school patriarchal mindset. To me, those things just don't mesh with how I live my life. It’s hard to wrap my head around how anyone could hold those views while still claiming to respect basic human rights and how the world actually works today. It's just a total mismatch with my values.

I honestly don't think private psychotherapy is accessible to the average person here in the States. And let's be real—it’s definitely not cheap. It’s certainly not like dropping a few bucks at a local barbershop; it’s way more than that. For most people, the cost is just eye-watering, making it something only a small fraction of the population can actually afford. The way the system is set up feels pretty broken, too. The government basically covers a handful of sessions a year, but usually only for those who aren't even in the workforce. That’s such a tiny percentage of people. Everyone else is just left to figure it out on their own. Most people end up just heading to their primary care doctor, getting a prescription for some meds, and calling it a day. That’s really where the support ends.

What even counts as a mistake? Who gets to decide what a mistake is? What you call a blunder might actually be the solution for someone else, right?

....you can't tell me this is the same as a bad haircut. If a therapist sends a young woman back to an abusive husband she already moved out from—thinking she knows what she's doing—only for her to end up in the ER with injuries a few days later...

How the hell is he supposed to know she’ll end up in the ER? How can any therapist predict the outcome of any intervention they make? Ever heard of paradoxical intention in psychotherapy? Are you even familiar with systemic approaches, specifically the ones that focus on keeping families intact and finding ways to make them functional again? How do you know his move wasn't part of the process or some idea they arrived at together?

You're looking at this example through the lens of divorce and leaving a husband, refusing to see any other explanation. There are plenty of possibilities, but you won't admit them because you think you're right and the therapist isn't. And how do you even know this stuff? Were you actually in the session, or just listening to someone else recount it?

....or if a school psychologist (who also has a Master's) talks to a kid and learns they plan to kill themselves... and then the therapist scares them with God, hell, and sin, ignores them because of it, and the kid ends up dead...
....Is the kid at fault then? Should they have just pulled cash out of their own college fund and gone find another therapist?

What if the school psychologist scares a suicidal kid with God and hell, and since the kid was raised in a strict Christian household, they actually get scared enough to stay alive? Or what if the psychologist *doesn't* use that tactic, and the kid kills themselves because they were so religious that fear of hell was the only thing holding them back? What then? Doesn't that cross your mind?

No, it doesn't, because you're being one-sided just to prove your point... Is there some magic way a therapist is supposed to know everything about a client instantly? Because if there were, there wouldn't be any room for actual exploration in therapy.

From what I see with people on these forums, they explore themselves alongside the therapist. Whether the questions or the direction of the sessions are "good" or not, that's why you keep exploring...

And since you're bringing up suicide, how much do you actually know about suicide in psychotherapy? Pick up a textbook on ethical issues in psych, read the section on suicide, and then come back with these conclusions. You'd see the impossible position it puts therapists in.

Quincy:

Seriously... how is nobody in America calling for actual regulations here? We need laws to stop these predators from abusing their positions in society just to "treat" gay people. It's straight-up harassment and it needs to be shut down.

Everyone thinks that way, but the people actually calling the shots? They're all on the same page. Our society is nowhere near where it needs to be. It’s a mess.

Quincy:

You seriously think those people locked up in "treatment centers" were just gonna find their own way out of those psych wards? Please. And where exactly were they keeping that young girl while they tried to "cure" her of being gay? Give me a break.

They had her locked up in a psych ward. Look, you're free to suggest how we stop this and actually punish the doctors responsible. Give me something concrete. I want exact solutions.

Quincy:

Where was the oversight in all this? Seriously. As far as I know, these psychologists only go for supervision when they feel like blowing cash. Basically, they only pay up when they decide they actually need to.

Supervision isn't some forced requirement—it’s usually driven by how much a therapist actually gives a damn about their work. In my experience, the pros who are actually serious about growing and leveling up are the ones constantly hunting for it. Meanwhile, the hacks? They won't touch it because they think they've already got it all figured out.

Quincy:

I’ve never personally sat on a therapist's couch, but I know plenty of people who have—including friends with actual Master's and Doctoral degrees in psychology. I also know tons of people currently in therapy. Honestly, after hearing about all the issues out there, it blows my mind that there isn't more regulation in this field. Patients deserve to actually know who they're dealing with when they hand over their money.

Nobody's forcing him to sit through therapy with someone who won't even open up. 🙂

Quincy:

I wouldn't be caught dead stepping foot in the house of anyone who's a religious fanatic, a racist, or some patriarchal dinosaur. Those things just don't mesh with how I live my life or how I see basic human rights. Period.

Me neither.

Quincy:

Look, private therapy isn't exactly accessible to the average person here in the States. I don't buy the idea that it's cheap enough to be like a trip to the barber. It’s insanely expensive around here. Most people just can't swing it. Plus, the government only covers a handful of sessions a year, and even then, it's mostly for people who aren't even in the workforce—which is a tiny fraction of the population. Everyone else is basically on their own. You go to your GP, they hand you some pills, and that's the end of it.

Everything's overpriced here, but you see how fast people dig up cash when their backs are against the wall. Anyway, this whole debate about psychotherapy rates is getting old, and I’m just not in the mood to deal with it.