Wage garnishments and collections

Gary King5 said:Been down this road before and we managed to work things out, but the rules have changed and now? I doubt they'll even listen.
I just need to push back this collection for 6 months until my business gets back on its feet, but I haven't got any legal leg to stand on with the IRS.

I don't get it. Who exactly is supposed to be meeting you halfway?
Just have him pay you in cash instead of direct deposit. Nobody is going to go after him for that unless you decide to report him for non-payment.

It’s critical for me to be able to defer this levy for six months while I get my business back on its feet, but I don't have any legal grounds to use against the IRS.

I doubt any deal like that will actually hold. They’ve been relentless lately. But go ahead and try; you've got nothing to lose.

Jesse Sanchez90 said:Wait, so you guys never even received a formal warning before they went straight to enforcement?

No.
We paid the debt. Account is unlocked now. Just waiting on the refund from the damn IRS.

How long does it usually take before you get served with a writ for not paying your Verizon bill?

It took about a month and a half for me...

I was supposed to have it paid by September, so by the 20th... but I still haven't gotten anything yet...

So, I have a legal question regarding a business matter. At the end of July 2013, we fulfilled an order for a client based on their purchase order and the corresponding delivery receipt. We mailed the invoice two days later. Our payment terms are Net 60, which means the balance was due at the end of September 2013.

A week after we sent that initial invoice, the customer returned it, claiming there was an error in their Tax ID. We corrected the mistake and resubmitted the new invoice immediately, which landed on the first day of August. Toward the end of November, I called the company to follow up on some other business matters, and they told me our delivery receipt was still sitting on their desk without an invoice attached. I found it somewhat strange that they hadn't reached out for two months regarding unpaid goods, but I decided to move past it and simply emailed them a digital copy of the invoice. Today—which is two and a half months since the actual delivery—I called to check on the payment status.

Their response was that they don't have the invoice and never received it. In all my years doing this, we have never encountered a situation quite like this. I played it cool and sent another digital copy via the same email thread we use for everything else—including drafts and proposals they had already accepted. They are still insisting they haven't received it.

Fine. Yesterday, we sent a hard copy of the invoice via certified mail with a return receipt requested. It is blatantly obvious that this company is playing games and trying to screw us over. In 20 years of operating this business, we have never dealt with such nonsense.
I have a strong suspicion they are intentionally avoiding the invoice so they can claim they have nothing to pay against. Once we receive the confirmation from the USPS that they have officially received the document, I want to know about the process for pursuing a judgment.

Our plan is to send a formal demand letter first, and if that fails, we will head to a notary to initiate a summary proceeding to collect against their account. We have all the necessary documentation, and the debt stands at approximately $0.50.
The notary indicated he would issue a notice to them, giving them 8 days to either settle the debt or file a formal objection, which would then move the matter to court. If they don't object and don't pay, the next step is a direct seizure of funds from their account.

What I am specifically wondering is this: if they decide to contest this in court, could they argue that because we didn't provide the invoice for two and a half months, they were unable to fulfill the payment? Is there any realistic possibility that a judge would rule in their favor, despite the fact that we have proof of sending the invoice twice via email and once via certified mail?

The bottom line is that they haven't paid us in two and a half months, and by the time we actually start the collection process, it will be three months. That is more than enough time for any reasonable business to handle a payment.

Is our legal standing solid here, or am I missing something? 😕

So, here's the deal: Verizon blocked my account back on August 19th, but since I wasn't even in the States at the time, I only just managed to get into my protected account yesterday. Can anyone walk me through the fastest way to get those two specific amounts back—specifically the September and October STIPENDS—which shouldn't have been subject to any seizure in the first place, yet they just grabbed them anyway. The bank is telling me this whole process could drag on for a month or more, assuming they even bother to return it at all. Who exactly am I supposed to reach out to at Verizon? And how do I go about getting back the extra fees taken from my stipend by FIFA (those collection costs)? Any advice would be appreciated.

redmaker33 said:So, I have a legal question regarding a business matter. At the end of July 2013, we fulfilled an order for a client based on their purchase order and the corresponding delivery receipt. We mailed the invoice two days later. Our payment terms are Net 60, which means the balance was due at the end of September 2013.

A week after we sent that initial invoice, the customer returned it, claiming there was an error in their Tax ID. We corrected the mistake and resubmitted the new invoice immediately, which landed on the first day of August. Toward the end of November, I called the company to follow up on some other business matters, and they told me our delivery receipt was still sitting on their desk without an invoice attached. I found it somewhat strange that they hadn't reached out for two months regarding unpaid goods, but I decided to move past it and simply emailed them a digital copy of the invoice. Today—which is two and a half months since the actual delivery—I called to check on the payment status.

Their response was that they don't have the invoice and never received it. In all my years doing this, we have never encountered a situation quite like this. I played it cool and sent another digital copy via the same email thread we use for everything else—including drafts and proposals they had already accepted. They are still insisting they haven't received it.

Fine. Yesterday, we sent a hard copy of the invoice via certified mail with a return receipt requested. It is blatantly obvious that this company is playing games and trying to screw us over. In 20 years of operating this business, we have never dealt with such nonsense.
I have a strong suspicion they are intentionally avoiding the invoice so they can claim they have nothing to pay against. Once we receive the confirmation from the USPS that they have officially received the document, I want to know about the process for pursuing a judgment.

Our plan is to send a formal demand letter first, and if that fails, we will head to a notary to initiate a summary proceeding to collect against their account. We have all the necessary documentation, and the debt stands at approximately $0.50.
The notary indicated he would issue a notice to them, giving them 8 days to either settle the debt or file a formal objection, which would then move the matter to court. If they don't object and don't pay, the next step is a direct seizure of funds from their account.

What I am specifically wondering is this: if they decide to contest this in court, could they argue that because we didn't provide the invoice for two and a half months, they were unable to fulfill the payment? Is there any realistic possibility that a judge would rule in their favor, despite the fact that we have proof of sending the invoice twice via email and once via certified mail?

The bottom line is that they haven't paid us in two and a half months, and by the time we actually start the collection process, it will be three months. That is more than enough time for any reasonable business to handle a payment.

Is our legal standing solid here, or am I missing something? 😕

Does anyone happen to be available to offer some legal advice? 🙂

Nicholas Cruz7 said:So, here's the deal: Verizon blocked my account back on August 19th, but since I wasn't even in the States at the time, I only just managed to get into my protected account yesterday. Can anyone walk me through the fastest way to get those two specific amounts back—specifically the September and October STIPENDS—which shouldn't have been subject to any seizure in the first place, yet they just grabbed them anyway. The bank is telling me this whole process could drag on for a month or more, assuming they even bother to return it at all. Who exactly am I supposed to reach out to at Verizon? And how do I go about getting back the extra fees taken from my stipend by FIFA (those collection costs)? Any advice would be appreciated.

Oh boy... honestly, I doubt you'll get that money back just by having a conversation—you’re probably looking at needing some legal help here.... and as for those IRS fees? Just forget about them. In my opinion, the IRS actually really messed things up rather than the lawyers did, because the garnishment order was for all assets, not specifically excluding your stipend. The IRS really should have been watching for that, though I guess they don't care. I suppose it’s a bit of a "you reap what you sow" situation too—if you aren't paying your bills, you're basically asking for trouble, and now you're seeing the fallout. I'm thinking—and I might be wrong here—that if you had your permanent residence registered outside of the US, you probably should have had a designated temporary representative appointed.

redmaker33 said:Does anyone happen to be available to offer some legal advice? 🙂

Honestly, I’d say just go ahead and file for the garnishment—there isn't any requirement for a formal warning from Quincy, you know? You simply need to submit the proposal for the garnishment against Quincy, and if they decide to push back, well, then they can try to prove the validity of your invoice in court. Sometimes, you just have to fight those jerks all the way to the end! As for a warning, you can always send one yourself if you want—it's really just a gesture of good faith before you start the actual legal process, so to speak. Does that make sense?

I really appreciate you taking the time to get back to me. 👍

One more thing; regarding the motion for attachment, I’m planning to move for an attachment on the transaction account (like a standard checking account), so I wanted to check if the wording I drafted for this section looks correct;

Since the debtor has failed to satisfy their obligation voluntarily, the creditor requests that the notary, pursuant to Sections 28, 35(2), and 37, all in conjunction with Sections 252b and 252c and Section 14 of the US Bankruptcy Code regarding enforcement costs, issue the following:

.

I have a question regarding some tax debt left over from my father’s small business, which he closed down back at the end of 2007 when he retired.
He just received a notice yesterday stating that if he doesn't settle up within 8 days, they’ll move straight to a collection order. A good chunk of this should be past the statute of limitations, and realistically, everything should be cleared by the time we hit about two and a half months from now... but I'm stuck on the best way to handle this. Should I file a request for the statute of limitations based solely on this recent notice? Or would it be smarter for him to head down to the IRS office first to get an official itemized list showing exactly how far back these debts go? Is it possible to request a document like that? If I can get that breakdown, I could then submit the formal request for the statute of limitations with much more certainty.
Also, I'm wondering—if I don't react to this specific notice right now, and instead wait until they actually issue the collection order, will I still be able to file the request for the statute of limitations then? Honestly, I just want to make sure we time this perfectly to get the relief we deserve.
Thanks a bunch!

Nicholas Cruz7 said:So, here's the deal: Verizon blocked my account back on August 19th, but since I wasn't even in the States at the time, I only just managed to get into my protected account yesterday. Can anyone walk me through the fastest way to get those two specific amounts back—specifically the September and October STIPENDS—which shouldn't have been subject to any seizure in the first place, yet they just grabbed them anyway. The bank is telling me this whole process could drag on for a month or more, assuming they even bother to return it at all. Who exactly am I supposed to reach out to at Verizon? And how do I go about getting back the extra fees taken from my stipend by FIFA (those collection costs)? Any advice would be appreciated.

Abandon all hope... as they say...

(1) Under Section 204, Subsection 1 of this Law, if the debtor receives income or benefits under Section 172 or amounts exempt from garnishment under Section 173, the debtor is required to notify the Agency.

The law is written to put the debtor at a disadvantage... let’s be clear... you're supposed to open a protected account *before* the garnishment happens, notify the Federal Reserve about which income is exempt, and only then can you actually access it... if the funds accidentally land in a frozen account... well, kiss it goodbye.

To wrap this up... only brute force brings justice... hopefully it's clear where you stand in this situation....

I’m trying to wrap my head around how the Federal Reserve actually goes after a retiree who missed a cable bill... I mean, doesn't the Federal Reserve wait for proof before they start seizing assets—like, doesn't CBS have to actually prove the payment was never made? How does a creditor like CBS even demonstrate that...

So, I’ve got this garnishment order right here. It’s a full-blown payroll deduction from a major employer, complete with the creditor info, the debtor's details (SSN, bank account, all that), the amount, the due date, the transaction numbers, an authorized signature, and the corporate seal... basically everything you'd need if the Department of Labor were looking over their shoulder...

But apparently, the Federal Reserve is just making things up as they go along. Their whole excuse is, "How are we supposed to know if the debtor already settled this?" Which, honestly, could they not just check our bank statements or something?...

So now, I’m stuck acting as the creditor with all this official paperwork in hand, yet somehow I'm the one who has to prove the employer didn't pay the debt.🙂
I know I could just take this to court, but man, I was really hoping for a quicker way through the bureaucracy...

steelheron47 said:I have a question regarding some tax debt left over from my father’s small business, which he closed down back at the end of 2007 when he retired.
He just received a notice yesterday stating that if he doesn't settle up within 8 days, they’ll move straight to a collection order. A good chunk of this should be past the statute of limitations, and realistically, everything should be cleared by the time we hit about two and a half months from now... but I'm stuck on the best way to handle this. Should I file a request for the statute of limitations based solely on this recent notice? Or would it be smarter for him to head down to the IRS office first to get an official itemized list showing exactly how far back these debts go? Is it possible to request a document like that? If I can get that breakdown, I could then submit the formal request for the statute of limitations with much more certainty.
Also, I'm wondering—if I don't react to this specific notice right now, and instead wait until they actually issue the collection order, will I still be able to file the request for the statute of limitations then? Honestly, I just want to make sure we time this perfectly to get the relief we deserve.
Thanks a bunch!

Sorry if I'm being a bit much, but...

Well, steelheron47, there are honestly a million different ways to play this—it’s quite a bit to juggle! I guess you could file an appeal once you actually receive the decision regarding the enforcement, and then maybe you could try invoking the statute of limitations if... well, if that applies. But, if you ask me, the best move might just be to play dumb—you know, act like you haven't a clue until the very last second! If you decide to go the statute of limitations route during the initial warning phase, you can certainly try to cite it, though—and I should mention this—they aren't strictly obligated to honor that request.

Aaron Cooper said:I’m trying to wrap my head around how the Federal Reserve actually goes after a retiree who missed a cable bill... I mean, doesn't the Federal Reserve wait for proof before they start seizing assets—like, doesn't CBS have to actually prove the payment was never made? How does a creditor like CBS even demonstrate that...

So, I’ve got this garnishment order right here. It’s a full-blown payroll deduction from a major employer, complete with the creditor info, the debtor's details (SSN, bank account, all that), the amount, the due date, the transaction numbers, an authorized signature, and the corporate seal... basically everything you'd need if the Department of Labor were looking over their shoulder...

But apparently, the Federal Reserve is just making things up as they go along. Their whole excuse is, "How are we supposed to know if the debtor already settled this?" Which, honestly, could they not just check our bank statements or something?...

So now, I’m stuck acting as the creditor with all this official paperwork in hand, yet somehow I'm the one who has to prove the employer didn't pay the debt.🙂
I know I could just take this to court, but man, I was really hoping for a quicker way through the bureaucracy...

According to CBS—not a chance. You’re the one who has to prove you actually paid them.
Business statements are treated as valid legal documents for enforcement, so you have to prove whatever they claim is wrong. That’s why some "idiots" like me keep every single paid receipt from the last ten years, even though the statute of limitations is only one year. You never know. I print out all my statements regularly because the bank only keeps them available in online banking for a year—after that, you have to pay just to see them.

And you think that’s how you actually get paid? YOU HAVE TO. Go ahead and trigger the garnishment using that document, unless you decide to settle with the debtor privately. You don't have to sue the employer anymore; a pay stub marked "unpaid" is enough now. The debtor will probably fight it, dragging things into municipal court to dispute the unpaid wages or challenge the validity of your claim. If the employer can't prove they actually paid you—kind of like what happened with CBS—then you'll see. I'll let you answer your own last comment on that one. 😉The judge rules in your favor, and only once that decision becomes final can they actually start enforcing the garnishment. Just watch out for the statute of limitations on wage claims.

And one last thing. The Federal Reserve isn't an investigator, a judge, or a jury. They're just the collector. Executing. Not even once she determines that a specific action has been taken. Done. The garnishment is being lifted. Pay the creditor directly. It doesn't notify. In that case, the creditor has to pull the garnishment from the Federal Reserve.
It’s pretty obvious that the Federal Reserve is just an executioner. They don't care about anything else; they just swing the axe whenever the law tells them to.

John Clark6 said:Well, steelheron47, there are honestly a million different ways to play this—it’s quite a bit to juggle! I guess you could file an appeal once you actually receive the decision regarding the enforcement, and then maybe you could try invoking the statute of limitations if... well, if that applies. But, if you ask me, the best move might just be to play dumb—you know, act like you haven't a clue until the very last second! If you decide to go the statute of limitations route during the initial warning phase, you can certainly try to cite it, though—and I should mention this—they aren't strictly obligated to honor that request.

Thanks. I guess I'm just wondering—once that garnishment order is actually issued, am I still able to file a request based on the statute of limitations? I'm a little worried that if I wait until then, the window might have already closed.

steelheron47 said:Sorry if I'm being a bit much, but...

You aren't being annoying; you just don't have the data. Tax debt is a completely different beast than a late utility bill from the local water department.

Basically, tax debt from January 2006 doesn't expire in January 2011 (assuming a 5-year statute of limitations—just using that as an example). The clock actually starts running from January 2007, which is where people mess up...
I'm not positive, but I think sending out notices can extend the statute of limitations, making it harder to argue based on the original due date...
Check exactly what’s expired and how much, then follow what Opak wrote... just play dumb. When the collection notice hits—file an objection in 3 or 4 copies. In the objection, cite the statute of limitations (and make sure to request a waiver for court costs—you'll need an IRS certificate proving you aren't a registered taxpayer). Also, definitely object to the attorney and notary fees—if most of the claims are already past the statute of limitations, those collection costs should be lower.

Daniel Martinez9 said:According to CBS—not a chance. You’re the one who has to prove you actually paid them.
Business statements are treated as valid legal documents for enforcement, so you have to prove whatever they claim is wrong. That’s why some "idiots" like me keep every single paid receipt from the last ten years, even though the statute of limitations is only one year. You never know. I print out all my statements regularly because the bank only keeps them available in online banking for a year—after that, you have to pay just to see them.

And you think that’s how you actually get paid? YOU HAVE TO. Go ahead and trigger the garnishment using that document, unless you decide to settle with the debtor privately. You don't have to sue the employer anymore; a pay stub marked "unpaid" is enough now. The debtor will probably fight it, dragging things into municipal court to dispute the unpaid wages or challenge the validity of your claim. If the employer can't prove they actually paid you—kind of like what happened with CBS—then you'll see. I'll let you answer your own last comment on that one. 😉The judge rules in your favor, and only once that decision becomes final can they actually start enforcing the garnishment. Just watch out for the statute of limitations on wage claims.

And one last thing. The Federal Reserve isn't an investigator, a judge, or a jury. They're just the collector. Executing. Not even once she determines that a specific action has been taken. Done. The garnishment is being lifted. Pay the creditor directly. It doesn't notify. In that case, the creditor has to pull the garnishment from the Federal Reserve.
It’s pretty obvious that the Federal Reserve is just an executioner. They don't care about anything else; they just swing the axe whenever the law tells them to.

I have a similar legal instrument right now to collect from an employer (the employer issued a Statement at the request of the Department of Labor).

The Federal Reserve is refusing to execute the collection against the employer, mostly because they interpret the accounting regulation differently than the Department of Labor does. I'm still sitting here waiting for someone to tell me if the Statement needs to be printed on pink paper or blue paper.🙂

I have a mountain of emails (and direct phone calls at the director and chief levels) regarding forced collections involving the Department of Labor (who wrote the regulation), the Department of the Treasury (specifically the director overseeing the Federal Reserve), and the Department of Justice (where I'm seeking a formal interpretation). Every single one of them understands my point, but nobody offers a solution. When I ask them to just coordinate and fix the discrepancy between themselves, they dodge it by claiming it would be an illegal interference in another department's business???

The Department of Labor refuses to demand a new Statement from the employer because they claim the current "Statement is sufficient for collection."

Do I even need to mention that the employer has connections to the highway department!!!
Yeah, several lawyers have reviewed everything and they say I'd win in court on the first try.

But I just don't get why I, despite having all the paperwork in order, can't collect from this employer through the Federal Reserve, yet anyone else—a worker, a retiree, or just some regular citizen—can get it done without this headache???

Daniel Martinez9 said:You aren't being annoying; you just don't have the data. Tax debt is a completely different beast than a late utility bill from the local water department.

Basically, tax debt from January 2006 doesn't expire in January 2011 (assuming a 5-year statute of limitations—just using that as an example). The clock actually starts running from January 2007, which is where people mess up...
I'm not positive, but I think sending out notices can extend the statute of limitations, making it harder to argue based on the original due date...
Check exactly what’s expired and how much, then follow what Opak wrote... just play dumb. When the collection notice hits—file an objection in 3 or 4 copies. In the objection, cite the statute of limitations (and make sure to request a waiver for court costs—you'll need an IRS certificate proving you aren't a registered taxpayer). Also, definitely object to the attorney and notary fees—if most of the claims are already past the statute of limitations, those collection costs should be lower.

grba, tax debts aren't collected through the court system or via standard garnishment laws. But you're totally right to ask generally about the type of debt involved, since it could be a three-year statute plus the year the ruling was issued.
Lauren, what is this debt for?