The end of serfdom in America?

I recall reading that serfdom in America was officially abolished on April 25, 1848.
But I find myself struggling to understand how we, as a people, allowed ourselves to effectively reinstate it in the 21st century—and not even in its original form, but in an even more predatory variation.

Back then, the situation was this: "...The tax obligations of peasant serfs varied from one landlord to another, yet their dues generally amounted to one-ninth of the land's produce given to the feudal lord and one-tenth given to the Church. All in all, the position of the peasant serf was by no means comfortable, as these dues had to be settled regardless of weather conditions, poor harvests, or the diseases that frequently devastated an already malnourished population."
On top of that, the peasant was also required to pay state taxes, which could be both regular and extraordinary..." — copied from Wikipedia.

So, 10% to the church, 11% to the government, plus whatever emergency levies they decide to slap on us... That’s a minimum of 21% of one's income gone.

It seems to me that we are currently in the process of reverting back to being nothing more than serfs.
With sales tax sitting at 23%, and once you factor in gross pay deductions, I’m looking at a 25% levy right off the top...

Historically, serfs worked land that belonged to the feudal lords. So, aren't we just moving backward? It makes me wonder just how much real estate today is actually owned by major banks or tied up in mortgages.
Essentially, the church remains the church, and the feudal lords have simply been replaced by banks. And those banks will likely transfer ownership to foreign interests, or lease it back to modern American serfs under absolutely lethal terms.

I recently bought a small item online, and it ended up costing me $67 including shipping... On top of that, there were postal fees, customs, and God knows who else I had to pay $34! We are talking about a 50% markup in levies! I called several numbers at the post office, and every time I asked for the full name of the official I was speaking with, I was met with nothing but a first name, or worse, a dismissive "Oh, it doesn't matter, I'm just a clerk"... Well, there you have it, the lady clerk...
Why is it that in this country, nobody wants to take any actual responsibility for what they do?

Where are we headed? I am profoundly disillusioned with this country.

Back in the 1800s, there was no Social Security, no pension plans, and certainly no healthcare coverage. Farmers didn't receive government subsidies, veterans didn't have benefits, and we didn't have the massive public administration or the mountain of regulations and entitlements we see today. And, of course, someone always has to foot the bill for all of it.

William Nelson15 said:I recall reading that serfdom in America was officially abolished on April 25, 1848.
But I find myself struggling to understand how we, as a people, allowed ourselves to effectively reinstate it in the 21st century—and not even in its original form, but in an even more predatory variation.

Back then, the situation was this: "...The tax obligations of peasant serfs varied from one landlord to another, yet their dues generally amounted to one-ninth of the land's produce given to the feudal lord and one-tenth given to the Church. All in all, the position of the peasant serf was by no means comfortable, as these dues had to be settled regardless of weather conditions, poor harvests, or the diseases that frequently devastated an already malnourished population."
On top of that, the peasant was also required to pay state taxes, which could be both regular and extraordinary..." — copied from Wikipedia.

So, 10% to the church, 11% to the government, plus whatever emergency levies they decide to slap on us... That’s a minimum of 21% of one's income gone.

It seems to me that we are currently in the process of reverting back to being nothing more than serfs.
With sales tax sitting at 23%, and once you factor in gross pay deductions, I’m looking at a 25% levy right off the top...

Historically, serfs worked land that belonged to the feudal lords. So, aren't we just moving backward? It makes me wonder just how much real estate today is actually owned by major banks or tied up in mortgages.
Essentially, the church remains the church, and the feudal lords have simply been replaced by banks. And those banks will likely transfer ownership to foreign interests, or lease it back to modern American serfs under absolutely lethal terms.

I recently bought a small item online, and it ended up costing me $67 including shipping... On top of that, there were postal fees, customs, and God knows who else I had to pay $34! We are talking about a 50% markup in levies! I called several numbers at the post office, and every time I asked for the full name of the official I was speaking with, I was met with nothing but a first name, or worse, a dismissive "Oh, it doesn't matter, I'm just a clerk"... Well, there you have it, the lady clerk...
Why is it that in this country, nobody wants to take any actual responsibility for what they do?

Where are we headed? I am profoundly disillusioned with this country.

Back in 1990, nobody even knew what a stock was.
Thieves and rebranded communists who had been rigging the system for generations just grabbed the reins of power.
Do you have any idea what happens to a country when former party hacks who lived off everyone else for decades—scammers and grifters—suddenly take over, and a few naive honest folks follow along with them?
They don't know anything besides how to steal. They really don't. And honestly, neither do we. The ones who actually know better either left or refuse to step into the mud with these scammers.
America didn't deserve this, but A. Stračević made it pretty clear forty years after 1848 exactly who these people are and how they think.

It feels like we’re being squeezed from both sides. Even our healthcare coverage seems to be shrinking by the day, forcing us to stack one supplemental insurance policy on top of another just to maintain a decent standard of care. And don't even get me started on the pension system; it’s completely nonsensical. You end up in this paradoxical trap where the more years you put in and the longer you delay retirement, the less you actually have to show for it at the end.
That’s why I can’t help but feel like instead of moving forward, we’re actually sliding backward.

Don't forget, there were also peasant revolts against the feudal lords!

William Nelson15 said:It feels like we’re being squeezed from both sides. Even our healthcare coverage seems to be shrinking by the day, forcing us to stack one supplemental insurance policy on top of another just to maintain a decent standard of care. And don't even get me started on the pension system; it’s completely nonsensical. You end up in this paradoxical trap where the more years you put in and the longer you delay retirement, the less you actually have to show for it at the end.
That’s why I can’t help but feel like instead of moving forward, we’re actually sliding backward.

We are regressing because we sprinted toward massive debt far too quickly; in reality, our standard of living is still vastly inflated compared to what our actual economic productivity justifies. It’s that old adage about having it all one moment and nothing the next, though on a global scale, there is nothing particularly alarming about this correction.

William Nelson15 said:I recall reading that serfdom in America was officially abolished on April 25, 1848.
But I find myself struggling to understand how we, as a people, allowed ourselves to effectively reinstate it in the 21st century—and not even in its original form, but in an even more predatory variation.

Back then, the situation was this: "...The tax obligations of peasant serfs varied from one landlord to another, yet their dues generally amounted to one-ninth of the land's produce given to the feudal lord and one-tenth given to the Church. All in all, the position of the peasant serf was by no means comfortable, as these dues had to be settled regardless of weather conditions, poor harvests, or the diseases that frequently devastated an already malnourished population."
On top of that, the peasant was also required to pay state taxes, which could be both regular and extraordinary..." — copied from Wikipedia.

So, 10% to the church, 11% to the government, plus whatever emergency levies they decide to slap on us... That’s a minimum of 21% of one's income gone.

It seems to me that we are currently in the process of reverting back to being nothing more than serfs.
With sales tax sitting at 23%, and once you factor in gross pay deductions, I’m looking at a 25% levy right off the top...

Historically, serfs worked land that belonged to the feudal lords. So, aren't we just moving backward? It makes me wonder just how much real estate today is actually owned by major banks or tied up in mortgages.
Essentially, the church remains the church, and the feudal lords have simply been replaced by banks. And those banks will likely transfer ownership to foreign interests, or lease it back to modern American serfs under absolutely lethal terms.

I recently bought a small item online, and it ended up costing me $67 including shipping... On top of that, there were postal fees, customs, and God knows who else I had to pay $34! We are talking about a 50% markup in levies! I called several numbers at the post office, and every time I asked for the full name of the official I was speaking with, I was met with nothing but a first name, or worse, a dismissive "Oh, it doesn't matter, I'm just a clerk"... Well, there you have it, the lady clerk...
Why is it that in this country, nobody wants to take any actual responsibility for what they do?

Where are we headed? I am profoundly disillusioned with this country.

Well, you surely didn't think serfdom was abolished because incompetent peasants suddenly became capable overnight, did you? Systems evolve, but the reality remains that the capable always live off the incapable, regardless of the era or the system in place. Certain things merely adjust to soften the blow when the capable push a bit too hard; then, inevitably, a new set of "capable" individuals emerges from a different circle, followed closely by the usual crowd of incompetents, until the entire cycle resets itself once again.

Steven Allen9 said:Back in 1990, nobody even knew what a stock was.
Thieves and rebranded communists who had been rigging the system for generations just grabbed the reins of power.
Do you have any idea what happens to a country when former party hacks who lived off everyone else for decades—scammers and grifters—suddenly take over, and a few naive honest folks follow along with them?
They don't know anything besides how to steal. They really don't. And honestly, neither do we. The ones who actually know better either left or refuse to step into the mud with these scammers.
America didn't deserve this, but A. Stračević made it pretty clear forty years after 1848 exactly who these people are and how they think.

Sorry, but America absolutely deserved this!
Maybe it’s a mitigating factor that America was under someone else's boot back then (I wouldn't have put up with it) and things were messy at the start.
But this "cluelessness" excuse hasn't held water for over two decades now.
Couldn't the people who took power just copy the playbook from successful nations? There are plenty of them out there.
And doesn't the public just keep voting for the exact same crowd over and over?

It's like taking a German Shepherd that's been trained to attack, unchaining it, and letting it loose.
That's exactly what our lot is—twenty-one years of being off the leash and doing whatever they want, while they look us dead in the eye and lie about it.
How can you say America didn't deserve this?

Turns out being a peasant was actually a decent gig—you were walking away with about 19% of the total yield.
There’s no way you’d be seeing that kind of take as an hourly worker today!

nimblescout50 said:Turns out being a peasant was actually a decent gig—you were walking away with about 19% of the total yield.
There’s no way you’d be seeing that kind of take as an hourly worker today!

Well, if you strip away everything we pay for healthcare, public schools, Social Security, the police, and the entire social safety net, then sure—you might pay less. Or did you honestly believe those peasants had retirement funds and their kids went to free public school?

Modern-day feudalism still exists; we just use different labels for it now.

nimblescout50 said:Turns out being a peasant was actually a decent gig—you were walking away with about 19% of the total yield.
There’s no way you’d be seeing that kind of take as an hourly worker today!

The thing was, a serf couldn't just decide to quit his boss and pack up for somewhere else. He was legally tied to the land he had to farm. On top of handing over a tenth or a ninth of everything, he also had to pay all these various "taxes" whenever the local lord felt like inventing them. It always boiled down to the same thing: they took everything he owned, leaving him just enough to stay alive so they could squeeze him again next year.

If the lord wanted to build a fortress, the serfs were expected to do it for free—that was called corvée labor.

And if there was a shortage of soldiers, they’d just round up some peasants, hand them a pitchfork or a hoe, and send them toward the enemy's arrows. If luck was on your side, you might end up fighting other peasants; if not, you were staring down an actual army in full armor with real weapons. Honestly, this sounds a lot like our modern "rights and responsibilities" regarding military service. Come to think of it, not much has changed.

silverraven7 said:Sorry, but America absolutely deserved this!
Maybe it’s a mitigating factor that America was under someone else's boot back then (I wouldn't have put up with it) and things were messy at the start.
But this "cluelessness" excuse hasn't held water for over two decades now.
Couldn't the people who took power just copy the playbook from successful nations? There are plenty of them out there.
And doesn't the public just keep voting for the exact same crowd over and over?

It's like taking a German Shepherd that's been trained to attack, unchaining it, and letting it loose.
That's exactly what our lot is—twenty-one years of being off the leash and doing whatever they want, while they look us dead in the eye and lie about it.
How can you say America didn't deserve this?

The version of America that works for peanuts, can't afford to put their kids through school, and struggles just to survive in their own hometown? The one sitting there in angry silence because the local mayor is deep in bed with the mob? The guy waiting in line, trying to figure out where he went wrong—that brave kid who was actually in the trenches while the desk jockeys were busy playing games overseas... yeah, that America didn't deserve this.

But they earned one thing: they didn't let anyone fool them, and they knew exactly who was feeding them fairy tales versus who was telling the truth. And honestly, twenty years of running in circles is a long time for anyone to take.

We pay our taxes just so hundreds of thousands of people can get by on unemployment checks or "work" in government offices—with a few exceptions, of course.

Alexander Lewis said:The thing was, a serf couldn't just decide to quit his boss and pack up for somewhere else. He was legally tied to the land he had to farm. On top of handing over a tenth or a ninth of everything, he also had to pay all these various "taxes" whenever the local lord felt like inventing them. It always boiled down to the same thing: they took everything he owned, leaving him just enough to stay alive so they could squeeze him again next year.

If the lord wanted to build a fortress, the serfs were expected to do it for free—that was called corvée labor.

And if there was a shortage of soldiers, they’d just round up some peasants, hand them a pitchfork or a hoe, and send them toward the enemy's arrows. If luck was on your side, you might end up fighting other peasants; if not, you were staring down an actual army in full armor with real weapons. Honestly, this sounds a lot like our modern "rights and responsibilities" regarding military service. Come to think of it, not much has changed.

Only Americans used to arm the peasants, and even then, it was pretty rare.

crimsonhound54 said:Well, if you strip away everything we pay for healthcare, public schools, Social Security, the police, and the entire social safety net, then sure—you might pay less. Or did you honestly believe those peasants had retirement funds and their kids went to free public school?

Oh, absolutely!
I just don't quite follow the math—like, the local tax surcharge for Washington, D.C. alone sits at around 18%.
Then there's the income tax at 5%!
And don't even get me started on sales tax, which is basically impossible to dodge since it's baked into pretty much everything you buy.
And sure, I guess unemployment didn't really exist back then... unless you were counting the feudal lords.

nimblescout50 said:Oh, absolutely!
I just don't quite follow the math—like, the local tax surcharge for Washington, D.C. alone sits at around 18%.
Then there's the income tax at 5%!
And don't even get me started on sales tax, which is basically impossible to dodge since it's baked into pretty much everything you buy.
And sure, I guess unemployment didn't really exist back then... unless you were counting the feudal lords.

What do you mean, "how"? Just try calculating what it would actually cost an individual if we didn't have pensions, public schools, doctors, the police, firefighters, or any semblance of a social safety net!

Steven Allen9 said:Back in 1990, nobody even knew what a stock was.
Thieves and rebranded communists who had been rigging the system for generations just grabbed the reins of power.
Do you have any idea what happens to a country when former party hacks who lived off everyone else for decades—scammers and grifters—suddenly take over, and a few naive honest folks follow along with them?
They don't know anything besides how to steal. They really don't. And honestly, neither do we. The ones who actually know better either left or refuse to step into the mud with these scammers.
America didn't deserve this, but A. Stračević made it pretty clear forty years after 1848 exactly who these people are and how they think.

I believe you have overlooked one final category of people.

There are those who possess immense knowledge yet, somehow, chose to remain here in America, where they command a premium price for their expertise.

William Nelson15 said:I recall reading that serfdom in America was officially abolished on April 25, 1848.
But I find myself struggling to understand how we, as a people, allowed ourselves to effectively reinstate it in the 21st century—and not even in its original form, but in an even more predatory variation.

Back then, the situation was this: "...The tax obligations of peasant serfs varied from one landlord to another, yet their dues generally amounted to one-ninth of the land's produce given to the feudal lord and one-tenth given to the Church. All in all, the position of the peasant serf was by no means comfortable, as these dues had to be settled regardless of weather conditions, poor harvests, or the diseases that frequently devastated an already malnourished population."
On top of that, the peasant was also required to pay state taxes, which could be both regular and extraordinary..." — copied from Wikipedia.

So, 10% to the church, 11% to the government, plus whatever emergency levies they decide to slap on us... That’s a minimum of 21% of one's income gone.

It seems to me that we are currently in the process of reverting back to being nothing more than serfs.
With sales tax sitting at 23%, and once you factor in gross pay deductions, I’m looking at a 25% levy right off the top...

Historically, serfs worked land that belonged to the feudal lords. So, aren't we just moving backward? It makes me wonder just how much real estate today is actually owned by major banks or tied up in mortgages.
Essentially, the church remains the church, and the feudal lords have simply been replaced by banks. And those banks will likely transfer ownership to foreign interests, or lease it back to modern American serfs under absolutely lethal terms.

I recently bought a small item online, and it ended up costing me $67 including shipping... On top of that, there were postal fees, customs, and God knows who else I had to pay $34! We are talking about a 50% markup in levies! I called several numbers at the post office, and every time I asked for the full name of the official I was speaking with, I was met with nothing but a first name, or worse, a dismissive "Oh, it doesn't matter, I'm just a clerk"... Well, there you have it, the lady clerk...
Why is it that in this country, nobody wants to take any actual responsibility for what they do?

Where are we headed? I am profoundly disillusioned with this country.

Things were better back then! Well, unless you had a toothache. If you did, you'd just run barefoot to the barber in the next town over(25 miles). And bring plenty of cash. Not too bad, really. Then you just yell at him for not giving you a numbing injection. Thanks a lot, Mr. Barber!

William Nelson15 said:I recall reading that serfdom in America was officially abolished on April 25, 1848.
But I find myself struggling to understand how we, as a people, allowed ourselves to effectively reinstate it in the 21st century—and not even in its original form, but in an even more predatory variation.

Back then, the situation was this: "...The tax obligations of peasant serfs varied from one landlord to another, yet their dues generally amounted to one-ninth of the land's produce given to the feudal lord and one-tenth given to the Church. All in all, the position of the peasant serf was by no means comfortable, as these dues had to be settled regardless of weather conditions, poor harvests, or the diseases that frequently devastated an already malnourished population."
On top of that, the peasant was also required to pay state taxes, which could be both regular and extraordinary..." — copied from Wikipedia.

So, 10% to the church, 11% to the government, plus whatever emergency levies they decide to slap on us... That’s a minimum of 21% of one's income gone.

It seems to me that we are currently in the process of reverting back to being nothing more than serfs.
With sales tax sitting at 23%, and once you factor in gross pay deductions, I’m looking at a 25% levy right off the top...

Historically, serfs worked land that belonged to the feudal lords. So, aren't we just moving backward? It makes me wonder just how much real estate today is actually owned by major banks or tied up in mortgages.
Essentially, the church remains the church, and the feudal lords have simply been replaced by banks. And those banks will likely transfer ownership to foreign interests, or lease it back to modern American serfs under absolutely lethal terms.

I recently bought a small item online, and it ended up costing me $67 including shipping... On top of that, there were postal fees, customs, and God knows who else I had to pay $34! We are talking about a 50% markup in levies! I called several numbers at the post office, and every time I asked for the full name of the official I was speaking with, I was met with nothing but a first name, or worse, a dismissive "Oh, it doesn't matter, I'm just a clerk"... Well, there you have it, the lady clerk...
Why is it that in this country, nobody wants to take any actual responsibility for what they do?

Where are we headed? I am profoundly disillusioned with this country.

That’s just wrong. Serfdom means being tied to the land. It means you're stuck to the plot you work; you can't move, you can't do anything... honestly, it isn't that different from slavery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom

Also, serfdom wasn't actually abolished then. Joseph II ended it back in 1785, and Governor Jelačić just confirmed it because there was enough disagreement over whether it was officially gone or not. Even the Governor himself said the King had already abolished it and he was just providing confirmation.

Serfdom has nothing to do with taxes. Tax rates are more or less proportional to the services the government provides. For instance, taxes in the US are relatively low, but then you have to pay for healthcare, education, retirement... out of your own pocket, so you end up right back where you started.

To use your comparison, sales tax in Sweden, Denmark, Canada... is around 25%.

Payroll taxes and contributions are pretty much the same in America and Austria.

Social inequality is actually much lower in America than it is in Great Britain or the USA.