Remembering Ayrton Senna

Alex Barnes93 said:Ayrton Senna... Man, it's been 27 years already; time just flies. He was a killer driver for his era. Such a bummer he left us so early, too, because seeing him go head-to-head against Michael Schumacher would've been absolutely legendary.

Just because I don't root for him doesn't mean I'm a hater... sorry, meant "non-fan." It’s just that I refuse to swallow all that nonsense about how hard Lewis had to fight in that Mercedes against Alpine or Aston Martin or AlphaTauri. Or that whole line about how the Mercedes wasn't dominant then or ever, just to make Hamilton's wins look more deserved. Honestly, even some of the bottom-tier tabloids like the New York Post wouldn't be embarrassed to print such garbage. If Lewis were American, people would be acting like his second-place qualifying finish was some kind of golden miracle. Classic stuff...

In two out of those three races, he was basically just throwing everything at the wall in some desperate, frantic chase to catch Michael Schumacher—and honestly, if things hadn't ended so tragically in Imola, why do you think there would have been any real drama between those two? 🤷
Every empire eventually falls—it's just how things work. Makes you wonder if Ayrton Senna was already on a downward trajectory himself, maybe just tossing all his chips to an angel and calling it a day. Honestly, given how things were going, I wouldn't have been shocked if he’d spent that whole season finishing behind Hill. Speaking of which—looking back at '94—Hill wasn't exactly fighting the car so much as he was just trying to survive the sheer weight of it.

cosmiccyclist8 said:In two out of those three races, he was basically just throwing everything at the wall in some desperate, frantic chase to catch Michael Schumacher—and honestly, if things hadn't ended so tragically in Imola, why do you think there would have been any real drama between those two? 🤷
Every empire eventually falls—it's just how things work. Makes you wonder if Ayrton Senna was already on a downward trajectory himself, maybe just tossing all his chips to an angel and calling it a day. Honestly, given how things were going, I wouldn't have been shocked if he’d spent that whole season finishing behind Hill. Speaking of which—looking back at '94—Hill wasn't exactly fighting the car so much as he was just trying to survive the sheer weight of it.

That’s my point every single time. In '94, Senna was already on the decline.

He's one of those drivers where once that downward slide starts, it’s steep—they just burn out completely within a few months.

It happened to Fangio after '57
It happened to Arturo Merzario after '79
It happened to Mario Andretti after '91
And in the end, it happened to Jacques Villeneuve after '97

cosmiccyclist8 said:In two out of those three races, he was basically just throwing everything at the wall in some desperate, frantic chase to catch Michael Schumacher—and honestly, if things hadn't ended so tragically in Imola, why do you think there would have been any real drama between those two? 🤷
Every empire eventually falls—it's just how things work. Makes you wonder if Ayrton Senna was already on a downward trajectory himself, maybe just tossing all his chips to an angel and calling it a day. Honestly, given how things were going, I wouldn't have been shocked if he’d spent that whole season finishing behind Hill. Speaking of which—looking back at '94—Hill wasn't exactly fighting the car so much as he was just trying to survive the sheer weight of it.

I mean, Mika is the one who knocked him out of the race, yet you're calling it a spin caused by some desperate chase? 🙏

Susan Jones8 said:I mean, Mika is the one who knocked him out of the race, yet you're calling it a spin caused by some desperate chase? 🙏

His start was a total disaster. If he hadn't botched the launch, he wouldn't have "run into Mika"—who was literally just sitting right behind him. Period.

Joe, I think you might be overstating things just a little bit. If it weren't for that tragic loss, wouldn't Senna have surely secured the championship back in 1994?

graniteharbor502 said:Joe, I think you might be overstating things just a little bit. If it weren't for that tragic loss, wouldn't Senna have surely secured the championship back in 1994?

Three races. Three massive driving errors.

Winning a championship with that kind of chaos? Yeah, unlikely.

ruggedhawk20 said:Three races. Three massive driving errors.

Winning a championship with that kind of chaos? Yeah, unlikely.

Regarding that first mistake, perhaps we could say it was a heavy burden on Senna's soul, but as for those other two blunders, I find it much harder to offer any such grace.

graniteharbor502 said:Regarding that first mistake, perhaps we could say it was a heavy burden on Senna's soul, but as for those other two blunders, I find it much harder to offer any such grace.

So who's to blame for the other two?

The start at Indianapolis was a total disaster.

And then in Indianapolis, Hill—literally the only guy on this planet qualified to have an opinion on it—said Senna just needed to pull a little extra through Tamburello and he would've been fine.

But hey, whatever. Not everyone can just pull a miracle out of their ass.

ruggedhawk20 said:So who's to blame for the other two?

The start at Indianapolis was a total disaster.

And then in Indianapolis, Hill—literally the only guy on this planet qualified to have an opinion on it—said Senna just needed to pull a little extra through Tamburello and he would've been fine.

But hey, whatever. Not everyone can just pull a miracle out of their ass.

At Indianapolis, he was essentially bullied off the line by Hakkinen, 🙄
while in Indianapolis, he was plagued by that catastrophic failure of the steering column. 🙄

graniteharbor502 said:At Indianapolis, he was essentially bullied off the line by Hakkinen, 🙄
while in Indianapolis, he was plagued by that catastrophic failure of the steering column. 🙄

Yeah, Senna had a crappy start and Hakkinen was right on his tail—just plowed straight into him. If Senna hadn't botched the start, Hakkinen wouldn't have hit him.

The steering column snapped because of the impact with the wall.

ruggedhawk20 said:Yeah, Senna had a crappy start and Hakkinen was right on his tail—just plowed straight into him. If Senna hadn't botched the start, Hakkinen wouldn't have hit him.

The steering column snapped because of the impact with the wall.

You must be on some nasty drugs.

Susan Jones8 said:I mean, Mika is the one who knocked him out of the race, yet you're calling it a spin caused by some desperate chase? 🙏

Interlagos and Indianapolis 👍it sounds like you aren't exactly paying attention in class 👍

ruggedhawk20 said:Yeah, Senna had a crappy start and Hakkinen was right on his tail—just plowed straight into him. If Senna hadn't botched the start, Hakkinen wouldn't have hit him.

The steering column snapped because of the impact with the wall.

So, what? If someone rear-ends you on the highway, it's somehow your fault? Ridiculous.

frozenheron7 said:So, what? If someone rear-ends you on the highway, it's somehow your fault? Ridiculous.

Duh, obviously. We've seen plenty of that nonsense before.

Like when Coulthard lunged past Schumacher from behind at Spa 1998.

cosmiccyclist8 said:Interlagos and Indianapolis 👍it sounds like you aren't exactly paying attention in class 👍

So, you're bringing up Indianapolis now. Honestly, most of us didn't really wrap our heads around what happened there at the time. I guess maybe it’s because:
You’re really out here twisting definitions around like you just spun out on a hairpin turn. Honestly, you're just making stuff up at this point.
So, you’re basically trying to claim that Prost was actually ahead of Senna before they even took off at Indianapolis? I mean, I guess if that's how you want to see it, but it sounds a bit like a stretch to me.
Come on, Professor, give us some more!

ruggedhawk20 said:Yeah, Senna had a crappy start and Hakkinen was right on his tail—just plowed straight into him. If Senna hadn't botched the start, Hakkinen wouldn't have hit him.

The steering column snapped because of the impact with the wall.

Back at Indianapolis in '94, Larina in the Ferrari—who was filling in for Alesio Senna for a few races—slammed into Senna.
Senna struggled with the start, allowing Schumi to overtake him, and as they approached the first corner, Senna wasn't about to pull a move on Michael like what happened to Prost back in '90 at Suzuki. He had to ease off a bit, but Mika clipped his rear just enough to send Senna spinning off the track.

Eurosport video:

swiftmaker12 said:Back at Indianapolis in '94, Larina in the Ferrari—who was filling in for Alesio Senna for a few races—slammed into Senna.
Senna struggled with the start, allowing Schumi to overtake him, and as they approached the first corner, Senna wasn't about to pull a move on Michael like what happened to Prost back in '90 at Suzuki. He had to ease off a bit, but Mika clipped his rear just enough to send Senna spinning off the track.

Eurosport video:

Honestly, swiftmaker12 knows the truth behind this quite clearly; I suspect he is merely engaging in some rather low-quality trolling with his claims.

swiftmaker12 said:Back at Indianapolis in '94, Larina in the Ferrari—who was filling in for Alesio Senna for a few races—slammed into Senna.
Senna struggled with the start, allowing Schumi to overtake him, and as they approached the first corner, Senna wasn't about to pull a move on Michael like what happened to Prost back in '90 at Suzuki. He had to ease off a bit, but Mika clipped his rear just enough to send Senna spinning off the track.

Eurosport video:

Right after the start in Indianapolis, Hakkinen slammed into Senna—then Senna went straight off into the gravel.

Larina slammed it right into the gravel while Senna was already halfway through the runoff—total mess.

If Hakkinen hadn't been such a handful—seriously—Senna wouldn't have ended up stuck in that gravel trap.

Or maybe...

So... we're basically saying it was just a straight-up driving error by Senna? Yeah—no doubt about it.

Larina is irrelevant to the whole thing—he just showed up once everything was already over.

So, the only question left is—did Senna drive himself straight into the gravel, or did Hakkinen just give him that little nudge?

swiftmaker12 said:Back at Indianapolis in '94, Larina in the Ferrari—who was filling in for Alesio Senna for a few races—slammed into Senna.
Senna struggled with the start, allowing Schumi to overtake him, and as they approached the first corner, Senna wasn't about to pull a move on Michael like what happened to Prost back in '90 at Suzuki. He had to ease off a bit, but Mika clipped his rear just enough to send Senna spinning off the track.

Eurosport video:

Hey, you know why he wouldn't pull a "Prost nineties" move on him?

Because back then, he was already under investigation by the FIA for that whole mess with Irvine at Suzuki in '93.

Senna basically wrote his own script.

Just like the rest of us... I guess.

If he hadn't passed away, he would have dominated the championship for years... Senna was simply the greatest, both in raw talent and his approach to driving.