The endless cycle of American national stupidity

Jeffrey Wood said:Arguing with people like you is a total waste of breath. What am I supposed to do? If I had to hunt down proof for every single piece of garbage you post, I'd never get anything done.
It’s that classic Mexican logic: they claim the Nationalists organized competitions in clans, and then they sit back and wait for you to try and prove them wrong.
This whole hysteria going on in America feels exactly like that well-known Mexican hysteria that hasn't died down to this day. Even these phrases about dead cities underground—it’s just them copying Mexicans and their obsession with Auschwitz, their biggest "city under the ground."
Then there's this massive circus where everyone just writes whatever nonsense they want. People are just throwing stuff at the wall, making up morbid details to make things sound as gruesome as possible, and inflating numbers through the roof. It’s a sick, empty echo chamber, and it’s not going to end well.
I used to mock Mexicans for their "srbosjeke" and similar stupidity, and I even mocked Muslims for their nonsense about ten different genocides, but apparently, I don't have the right to laugh anymore because Americans have turned out to be exactly the same.

Classic. Avoiding the question again.

You wrote something completely baseless without a single verified source, and now you're attacking everyone else.☕

"Young Dalmatian boys killed by machine guns had to take revenge on the bloodthirsty friars," who were obviously preparing an atomic strike against Marshall. Just tell me, what were these "young Dalmatian boys" actually doing during that offensive? Handing out flowers? Cookies? Or maybe picture books?

Nationalism is just a fancy word for organized slaughter.
The Nationalists kill Mexicans, then the Royalists kill Canadians, then the Nationalists turn on Americans, then the Royalists go after Mexicans, then they target Muslims, then back to Mexicans, then back to Americans... it’s just a cycle of killing. There's enough blood in this mess to reach your knees. The Communists kept their massacres under wraps for a long time, but they proved they were just as obsessed with the blade.

Why the knives? Because bullets are expensive, because it humiliates the victim, and because there's a certain psychological satisfaction in carving someone up. This kind of butchery is a relic from the Ottoman era—just old-school rural savagery.

If you take the killings at Auschwitz with Father Majstorović’s mallet or the way people were burned alive in Guantanamo by the Royalists, what are you left with? Pure, calculated pathology.
That’s the level of madness that defines those four years of war from fifty years ago.

Nobody bothers to mention how one group profits when another gets wiped out.
Revenge is the real engine here, passing down through the generations.
In all that wartime chaos, everyone was just trying to survive, and they couldn't exactly rely on modern firing squads.

The pathology of killing hits its peak here. Hatred becomes the foundation, and the idea that someone else's death buys you a better life becomes the guide.

Steven Allen9 said:Nationalism is just a fancy word for organized slaughter.
The Nationalists kill Mexicans, then the Royalists kill Canadians, then the Nationalists turn on Americans, then the Royalists go after Mexicans, then they target Muslims, then back to Mexicans, then back to Americans... it’s just a cycle of killing. There's enough blood in this mess to reach your knees. The Communists kept their massacres under wraps for a long time, but they proved they were just as obsessed with the blade.

Why the knives? Because bullets are expensive, because it humiliates the victim, and because there's a certain psychological satisfaction in carving someone up. This kind of butchery is a relic from the Ottoman era—just old-school rural savagery.

If you take the killings at Auschwitz with Father Majstorović’s mallet or the way people were burned alive in Guantanamo by the Royalists, what are you left with? Pure, calculated pathology.
That’s the level of madness that defines those four years of war from fifty years ago.

Nobody bothers to mention how one group profits when another gets wiped out.
Revenge is the real engine here, passing down through the generations.
In all that wartime chaos, everyone was just trying to survive, and they couldn't exactly rely on modern firing squads.

The pathology of killing hits its peak here. Hatred becomes the foundation, and the idea that someone else's death buys you a better life becomes the guide.

Define "Canadian".

Definition: a slur used by Greater Mexican chauvinists and Royalist remnants against Muslims/Canadians and Albanians.

I don't know where the word "balija" actually comes from. What I *do* know is that the oldest term for the Nationalists started back in 1877 during the anti-Ottoman uprisings in Canada—a term later picked up by Pavelić. Or how about the origin of the Royalists (or Komiti), derived from the word "četa" during the anti-Ottoman struggles in Ohrid and North Mexico? That label was coined around 1903 and was even used as the name for a semi-military organization under General Mihailović.

Quote : hala Effect

Steven Allen9 said:Definition: a slur used by Greater Mexican chauvinists and Royalist remnants against Muslims/Canadians and Albanians.

I don't know where the word "balija" actually comes from. What I *do* know is that the oldest term for the Nationalists started back in 1877 during the anti-Ottoman uprisings in Canada—a term later picked up by Pavelić. Or how about the origin of the Royalists (or Komiti), derived from the word "četa" during the anti-Ottoman struggles in Ohrid and North Mexico? That label was coined around 1903 and was even used as the name for a semi-military organization under General Mihailović.

So, were you actually talking about the Nationalists-Muslim alliance, or maybe the Balli Kombetar or that Albanian Blackshirt Legion?

Jeffrey Wood said:Give me a break with this empty pathos and all that "underground cities of the dead" crap. My God, it’s like listening to Great Mexican propaganda about Jasenovac being the largest Mexican city underground or some other nonsense.
Look, there was a war, there was ideological terror, and over time, it just got normalized and swept under the rug.
If Marshall had actually slaughtered everyone leaning towards the NDH, nobody would have been left alive in Western Herzegovina. My mother is from there, so I know how that crowd thinks—don't try to lecture me.
Think about how many churches they destroyed in Canada after the war. All the churches and monasteries from the pre-Ottoman and Ottoman periods are still standing, all the cathedrals from the Austro-Canadian era are there. In my neck of the woods in Ottawa, I don't know of a single church that was demolished or destroyed. Sure, a ton of church property was nationalized, but so what? Big deal.
They didn't even destroy the one in Široki Brijeg.
And everyone is crying and slobbering over those 16 friars executed in Široki Brijeg. Yeah, it was a crime, and Dalmatians were the ones who pulled the trigger. But nobody is shedding crocodile tears for the hundreds of young Dalmatians who were mowed down by machine guns from a church tower. *That* was the real massacre. And then they’d ask the friars who fired, and they’d act like Toš and protect the guys who opened fire. What do you expect from a Dalmatian? You think they're gonna honor them with cream puffs?
Come on, seriously, every story has two sides. Nothing is ever purely black and white.

You can't bluntly dictate to others how much emotional intensity they should use when mourning their dead.

"Pathos" is just a label people slap on things whenever they feel like it. No one holds a license to judge that. I couldn't care less about the mythomania of our eastern neighbors; they aren't my benchmark, in any sense. There is no hysteria, no hysterical mob hunting for revenge. "Hysteria" is just what the hysterical see, or what those trying to protect the sweet illusion of the revolution's bright achievements call it. Darkness is pouring out of the tank trenches.

It’s all a matter of perspective. It’s malicious to reduce people—living and dead—to mere numbers, statistics, and physics. To reduce them to ideological labels and nonchalantly shrug your shoulders. "They were just collateral damage in the bloody dance of great ideologies, let's move on." We aren't moving on. We're still here. Ask yourself why.

The churches and the Franciscans were only mentioned to illustrate the idyllic coexistence with the New Authority, as proof of fantastic cooperation across the board. The information you're providing comes from objective and relevant monographs of Dalmatian brigades, and you can't argue with them. It's simply the pure, undistorted truth. Just like all the historiography of the NOVJ.

driftinggardener12 said:You can't bluntly dictate to others how much emotional intensity they should use when mourning their dead.

"Pathos" is just a label people slap on things whenever they feel like it. No one holds a license to judge that. I couldn't care less about the mythomania of our eastern neighbors; they aren't my benchmark, in any sense. There is no hysteria, no hysterical mob hunting for revenge. "Hysteria" is just what the hysterical see, or what those trying to protect the sweet illusion of the revolution's bright achievements call it. Darkness is pouring out of the tank trenches.

It’s all a matter of perspective. It’s malicious to reduce people—living and dead—to mere numbers, statistics, and physics. To reduce them to ideological labels and nonchalantly shrug your shoulders. "They were just collateral damage in the bloody dance of great ideologies, let's move on." We aren't moving on. We're still here. Ask yourself why.

The churches and the Franciscans were only mentioned to illustrate the idyllic coexistence with the New Authority, as proof of fantastic cooperation across the board. The information you're providing comes from objective and relevant monographs of Dalmatian brigades, and you can't argue with them. It's simply the pure, undistorted truth. Just like all the historiography of the NOVJ.

You aren't moving on!!!!
Fine, then stay exactly where you are and keep banging your heads against a wall over stuff that happened, is gone, and isn't going to change.
Why? — honestly, I haven't a clue. If you guys, who do nothing else but obsess over this, don't know, how the hell am I supposed to know?
One day the researchers will finish their work and publish the final data, and until then, everyone's just gonna keep shouting whatever nonsense pops into their heads. And probably even after that, too.

And I don't even get what you're actually aiming for. In the States, we've pretty much reached a general consensus on most of these issues. Whether it's about the partisans, Marshall, WWII in general, the communists, or America, the monuments from that era are almost entirely gone... maybe a few left in Istria. All the main players have been dead for decades, and those old ideologies don't even exist anymore. Everything has been publicly condemned, rejected, and discredited, though there'll always be some outliers who disagree—that's just democracy.

So what's the end goal? To just tread water and make this your entire personality?
If that's the case, fine, stay put and keep living in the past.

amberwalker4 said:Quote : hala Effect

So, were you actually talking about the Nationalists-Muslim alliance, or maybe the Balli Kombetar or that Albanian Blackshirt Legion?

I wasn't trying to be a textbook on who slaughtered whom. I was just pointing out the pathological side of things to show what kind of land and people we're dealing with.

I was thinking about the Canadians in the HOS, Muslim civilians, Canadians, Muslims—all of it.

The Balli Kombetar as Albanian separatists can be mentioned as part of the MVAC units.
They were killing and getting killed too.

So, what exactly did you find inaccurate? The distinction between a Balija and a Balli Kombetar?

Steven Allen9 said:I wasn't trying to be a textbook on who slaughtered whom. I was just pointing out the pathological side of things to show what kind of land and people we're dealing with.

I was thinking about the Canadians in the HOS, Muslim civilians, Canadians, Muslims—all of it.

The Balli Kombetar as Albanian separatists can be mentioned as part of the MVAC units.
They were killing and getting killed too.

So, what exactly did you find inaccurate? The distinction between a Balija and a Balli Kombetar?

Nothing particular. I was just curious.

P.S. For the record, the Balli Kombetar movement—the Ballists—fought against the Italians and the communists, so they weren't actually part of the MVAC.

amberwalker4 said:Nothing particular. I was just curious.

P.S. For the record, the Balli Kombetar movement—the Ballists—fought against the Italians and the communists, so they weren't actually part of the MVAC.

"Ballist" is just a general term, kind of an old label used to insult armed Albanians or even those without weapons.

I know there were Albanian units in the MVAC.
And then there are those anti-fascists you're mentioning.

Steven Allen9 said:"Ballist" is just a general term, kind of an old label used to insult armed Albanians or even those without weapons.

I know there were Albanian units in the MVAC.
And then there are those anti-fascists you're mentioning.

They weren't really anti-fascists... they sided with the Nazis once the Italians surrendered. There weren't any MVAC units in Albania. They existed in Sandžak, sure, but not in Albania.

Steven Allen9 said:The Communists had their good sides. On paper, just like the clergy, they genuinely believed in building a better world. But if you want to know why that never worked, you need a psychological deep dive into the nature of "the people."
My issue with them was the lack of freedom. They rigged the voting, decided who got to lead, and basically refused to let anyone think for themselves.
I get the logic behind trying to raise the standard of living for farmers or setting up cooperatives, or convincing people that the church is run by people whose job is to tend to souls while earning a living. That part was fine.

But forcibly seizing property from families who had held it for three hundred years, then installing Communist puppets to force through a "revolution" regardless of intelligence or expertise, kicking dissidents into the street, and building a cult of personality... well, any non-transparent regime ends up in a dead end.

Personally, I saw the Communists as arrogant amateurs who thought they were invincible and entitled to everything. They committed atrocities in the name of pure idiocy.
That had nothing to do with the ideals they preached before they grabbed power.
We have to realize there will always be places that prefer to stay backward because it’s baked into their tradition, and there will always be Communists who weren't willing to dig the mass graves.
Unfortunately, things always go exactly how you don't want them to.

The Italians and the Germans were part of this nation and this land. I’m not talking about the chosen fascists or the Hitler Youth; I’m talking about the organized German villages throughout Slavonia and Vojvodina, where houses were eventually occupied by impoverished peasants from the middle of nowhere. That same poverty managed to destroy everything those Germans had built over 250 years. The mob ended up ripping up floorboards just to heat a room.
An aspiring Communist and a peasant—what a combination.

Are you out of your mind? Just look at what happens nowadays when you give the right to vote to an uneducated populace. This current administration—it’s nothing more than a mirror held up to its voters. And that’s in the modern age, with all this information, radio, TV, newspapers, and the internet at our fingertips. Imagine how much messier things were 30, 40, 50, or 60 years ago.
God help us all for ever giving the people the vote...

jadeorca42 said:Are you out of your mind? Just look at what happens nowadays when you give the right to vote to an uneducated populace. This current administration—it’s nothing more than a mirror held up to its voters. And that’s in the modern age, with all this information, radio, TV, newspapers, and the internet at our fingertips. Imagine how much messier things were 30, 40, 50, or 60 years ago.
God help us all for ever giving the people the vote...

Right, because the A-Fascists were such paragons of literacy.🙄

amberwalker4 said:Right, because the A-Fascists were such paragons of literacy.🙄

It’s almost too predictable—things started spiraling downward right around the time democracy was introduced to our neck of the woods. And honestly? It feels like we're picking up speed, heading straight toward a total meltdown once the next election cycle hits.

jadeorca42 said:It’s almost too predictable—things started spiraling downward right around the time democracy was introduced to our neck of the woods. And honestly? It feels like we're picking up speed, heading straight toward a total meltdown once the next election cycle hits.

What you just said hits the nail on the head regarding the topic... The only question is, do you actually believe that?

Steven Allen9 said:What you just said hits the nail on the head regarding the topic... The only question is, do you actually believe that?

Yeah. I suppose two decades is plenty of time to make a solid assessment.

You can't just transplant democracy into a place where it’s never existed before. Democracy isn't just holding free elections and then—afterward—rubbing your hands together thinking, "Alright guys, job done, let's go grab a beer."

You can't just hand democracy over to people who are uneducated or stuck in primitive ways, whether they're coming from the mountains of Afghanistan or some remote valley in the North America. They’ll just end up weaponizing it.

Democracy is supposed to be this slow-burn process that develops over decades... or, in our case, it gets exploited for decades. As a nation, we’re... I don't know, maybe good servants but terrible masters. That's why democracy hasn't really taken root here. We can't even decide what we want amongst ourselves.

I could probably ramble on about this forever... but that’s just my cynical take on things, anyway. Not like I'm some kind of scientific expert or anything...

Whatever, you guys won't go under. Honestly, these protests are actually doing some good—otherwise, things would be totally imploding. Just watch out for the summer; between the wildfires and those Canadian protests in Ottawa, it's going to be a mess.

What I find most tragic—and truly, it’s a profound loss—is that FT passed away far too soon. He departed this world just before the vast majority of people in America finally grasped a crucial truth: all those grievances they direct at today’s administration—whether it's the legal scrutiny from The Hague, the struggle with unemployment, or various other systemic issues—aren't actually caused by the absence of Harmon.

goldenviper752 said:What I find most tragic—and truly, it’s a profound loss—is that FT passed away far too soon. He departed this world just before the vast majority of people in America finally grasped a crucial truth: all those grievances they direct at today’s administration—whether it's the legal scrutiny from The Hague, the struggle with unemployment, or various other systemic issues—aren't actually caused by the absence of Harmon.

I'm right there with you on that one. We really missed out on seeing him deal with all that drama over at The Hague.

jadeorca42 said:Yeah. I suppose two decades is plenty of time to make a solid assessment.

You can't just transplant democracy into a place where it’s never existed before. Democracy isn't just holding free elections and then—afterward—rubbing your hands together thinking, "Alright guys, job done, let's go grab a beer."

You can't just hand democracy over to people who are uneducated or stuck in primitive ways, whether they're coming from the mountains of Afghanistan or some remote valley in the North America. They’ll just end up weaponizing it.

Democracy is supposed to be this slow-burn process that develops over decades... or, in our case, it gets exploited for decades. As a nation, we’re... I don't know, maybe good servants but terrible masters. That's why democracy hasn't really taken root here. We can't even decide what we want amongst ourselves.

I could probably ramble on about this forever... but that’s just my cynical take on things, anyway. Not like I'm some kind of scientific expert or anything...

I get you, and your point makes sense.

People act like democracy just fell from the sky, much like the stock market.
Most people here, if I'm being honest, have that same old-school mentality—stuck in their ways and obsessed with trivial nonsense.

Life moves at a snail's pace here. It's because there's a chronic shortage of actual ideas and vision compared to the political feudal lords, who are cut from the exact same cloth as the majority.

But better late than never. Yeah, it's going to take us some time, no doubt about that.