When you stare too long into the abyss, the abyss stares back into you

Let me put it this way: if you have an interest in the mob, if you start reaching out to them, if you actually go through the motions of joining the syndicate... after a while, you aren't the one running the game anymore. It’s the other way around. The organization begins to deal with you, and at that point, there is simply no escape.

wearyowl29 said:

I can't believe I'm actually saying this out loud, but sometimes you just have to lean into the chaos! It’s like that one time I was stuck in traffic on the I-95—just total gridlock, nothing moving, and I realized that if I didn't laugh, I’d probably lose my mind. Life is exactly like that. You try to plan everything out, you try to be so precise, and then *bam*, reality hits you right in the face. It's all about embracing the messiness of it all! Everything feels much more manageable when you stop fighting the current and just start swimming. Just a little thought for your Tuesday! kaže:
Let's get back to my buddy. How on earth does he actually break free from all those temptations?😛

Ha... Rilke!😍 He once said, "I’m terrified of driving away all my demons, just in case I end up driving away the angels, too..." It really makes you think, doesn't it? It's like when I was trying to declutter my garage last summer—I wanted to toss out all the old junk, the broken tools, the rusted scraps, thinking it would finally feel peaceful. But then I realized some of that "junk" actually held the memories of projects I loved! If I had been too aggressive with the cleanup, I might have lost the soul of the hobby itself. There’s a delicate balance between purging the darkness and accidentally tossing out the light. We need a little bit of chaos to stay human, I suppose!

So, honestly? Let them call upon their demons and their angels! Everyone should just go out there and take a stand based on what they believe. Paths open up and shut down right before our eyes—it’s all part of the dance. At the end of the day, life is really just a wild cocktail meant for the brave!

Well put. It’s essentially that parable from the Bible about the wheat and the weeds.
When the crop grows and yields fruit, the weeds show up too. That’s exactly how it plays out when we look at our own lives. We think we’ve planted nothing but wheat, but then we look at the field of our existence and realize it isn't just wheat—there are weeds in there, too.
When they asked if they should start pulling them, Jesus replied: NO, lest in gathering the weeds you uproot the wheat along with them.

If we spend our lives worrying about what is wheat and what is weed, constantly trying to weed everything out, we'll likely miss the whole point. It’s usually just ego masquerading as holiness—trying to force a version of perfection we invented ourselves. That isn't spirituality. It's just a need for control, driven by ego and a thirst for success. And there is nothing more dangerous than "spiritual success," because most of the time, it's just an illusion.

Ryan Wilson2 said:Let me put it this way: if you have an interest in the mob, if you start reaching out to them, if you actually go through the motions of joining the syndicate... after a while, you aren't the one running the game anymore. It’s the other way around. The organization begins to deal with you, and at that point, there is simply no escape.

Speaking from experience? 🤣

It's like standing on the edge of a skyscraper, staring down. At some point, you lose your sense of reality and the ground beneath your feet. You merge with the abyss, lose your balance, and fall...

Quincy:

Samarkand. Asks: Let's get back to my friend. How can he actually break free from temptation?😛

So, turn your gaze away from the abyss.

The mind is a wild place. Thoughts just fly through our heads like birds streaking across the sky—it happens to all of us. Some are just passing through, while others decide to nest and stay for a long, long time. Sometimes we cling to the ones we love most, even if they turn out to be incredibly toxic. It really comes down to this: which birds fly past, and which ones stick around? It all depends on which ones we choose to feed with our attention.

It feels like we’re just helpless slaves to our own thoughts, doesn't it? Like they just drift through our internal space and there's absolutely nothing we can do to stop them. And honestly? That's the truth. You can't stop them. There is no such thing as "fighting" your thoughts—in that war, you always lose. Why? Because by fighting them, you're actually just feeding them. You're giving them strength. Fighting your thoughts is really just another way of giving them your full attention.

The only way forward? Stop paying attention to those thoughts. Don't chase them when they pop up; just become indifferent to their arrival, their fluttering, and their departure. Don't feed them by engaging, and don't strengthen them by fighting back. Instead, we become a quiet corridor that they simply pass through—a space where things happen, a silence they can't touch.

Most people don't realize they have a choice. At any given moment, you can stop thinking—not by forcing your brain to go silent, but by simply refusing to give those thoughts any weight. You stop identifying with them. But the fascination is just too strong for most; that sense of self-identification is overwhelming. For the average person, obsessing over every passing thought becomes a compulsion. They end up hypnotized, essentially bullied by their own minds.

Ryan Wilson2 hits the nail on the head: you become who you surround yourself with. 😛

When you fixate on something, you start merging with whatever you're watching.
You begin to act just like the thing you're observing.
It’s a total assimilation.
You end up seeing yourself through their lens.
Basically, you become what you think about.

It makes me think of Paul. He was so obsessed with hunting down Jesus that he focused on him so intensely he basically "entered" him—until he ended up becoming just like Jesus himself.

Isn't that the same idea in Buddhism? By focusing on one thing, we merge with it so deeply that our whole personality shifts to absorb parts of what we're looking at.

I feel bad if I'm letting the thread starter down by not diving straight into the abyss or the dark side. It's honestly just because of 🙂—I've been trying so hard to stay positive and only focus on the good stuff (okay, maybe just some "good" demons, LOL). But the principle is exactly the same.

electrictrucker18 said:Just picture the scenario: suddenly, you find yourself drawn toward something that goes completely against everything you thought you believed in... maybe it's a sweet, wholesome girl fantasizing about a threesome, or a college professor at some big state university wondering if he should just surrender to a myth being dangled in front of him... you know what I mean? 😁

So, basically, a person finds themselves standing at a crossroads, facing a path they never imagined they'd even consider taking...

I actually have a friend who's dealing with a challenge right like this—something that could totally flip his entire life upside down—and honestly, I just don't think it's a smart move. How is a person even supposed to fight off a temptation like that?

N. argues everywhere that the world acts as your mirror... and the same goes for the abyss. Deep introspection can sometimes just lead back to pure nihilism—that empty space where there’s no false comfort found in various secondary rationalizations. But then again, someone might look at it differently: staring into the abyss isn't a fall. If the bottom is a bottomless pit with no end, then falling is actually more like flying or hovering... and that's how you transcend existential despair.

Brenda Cook4 said:N. argues everywhere that the world acts as your mirror... and the same goes for the abyss. Deep introspection can sometimes just lead back to pure nihilism—that empty space where there’s no false comfort found in various secondary rationalizations. But then again, someone might look at it differently: staring into the abyss isn't a fall. If the bottom is a bottomless pit with no end, then falling is actually more like flying or hovering... and that's how you transcend existential despair.

Aha! "Hovering" is certainly a convenient way to frame overcoming that existential dread. It’s the same elegant solution Nietzsche used when he threw himself into that seductive abyss staring back at him. He spent his final ten years falling into that void like a complete lunatic.

Sandra Morgan2 said:Aha! "Hovering" is certainly a convenient way to frame overcoming that existential dread. It’s the same elegant solution Nietzsche used when he threw himself into that seductive abyss staring back at him. He spent his final ten years falling into that void like a complete lunatic.

But Nietzsche didn't see it as some kind of free flight; he was actually terrified of nihilism. Whether you overcome it or not is entirely up to the individual. Some people can stomach it, others simply can't. You experience an existential crisis through deep, internal landscapes... and being called a "lunatic" is really just a label people slap on you.

Brenda Cook4 said:But Nietzsche didn't see it as some kind of free flight; he was actually terrified of nihilism. Whether you overcome it or not is entirely up to the individual. Some people can stomach it, others simply can't. You experience an existential crisis through deep, internal landscapes... and being called a "lunatic" is really just a label people slap on you.

He had plenty of reasons to be afraid. Nihilism? It’s absolutely devastating to the psyche.

Paul Jones7: "Quote:"

Whether someone overcomes it or not... that's entirely up to the individual. Some people can handle the weight, and some just can't.

I honestly don't see how anyone can stomach that nihilistic nonsense and still keep their sanity intact.

Paul Jones7:

Existential crisis? It’s really just an experience of deep, landscape-driven introspection.

If you’re talking about that crisis triggered by facing nothingness—that absolute void—then I am totally with you. You nailed it. You defined it perfectly with just one single sentence.

I don't see a leap into the abyss of nothingness and a plunge into a nihilistic void as being one and the same. One is an expansion of consciousness; the other is its darkening.

I also think the author of that opening post was dealing with some kind of third type of abyss in their mind. 🙂

Sandra Morgan2 said:He had plenty of reasons to be afraid. Nihilism? It’s absolutely devastating to the psyche.

Paul Jones7: "Quote:"

Whether someone overcomes it or not... that's entirely up to the individual. Some people can handle the weight, and some just can't.

I honestly don't see how anyone can stomach that nihilistic nonsense and still keep their sanity intact.

Paul Jones7:

Existential crisis? It’s really just an experience of deep, landscape-driven introspection.

If you’re talking about that crisis triggered by facing nothingness—that absolute void—then I am totally with you. You nailed it. You defined it perfectly with just one single sentence.

I don't see a leap into the abyss of nothingness and a plunge into a nihilistic void as being one and the same. One is an expansion of consciousness; the other is its darkening.

I also think the author of that opening post was dealing with some kind of third type of abyss in their mind. 🙂

...Sunyata definitely isn't nothingness or nihilism... obviously...

Now, whether someone can actually remain "balanced" through it all—whatever that means—is a whole different conversation...

Well, I suppose N. was quite specific about being "a certain kind of man," mostly so people wouldn't just twist his words to fit whatever narrative they felt like following. He definitely wasn't a nihilist—I mean, how could he be if he wrote "God is dead" and then actually took the time to stare into the void left behind by His absence? And you really can't just lazily label that void as "evil." Not when you consider he's the same author who penned "above good and evil" and spent so much of his life trying to construct a new system of values—something that sits above our usual concepts of "good" and "evil"—to distinguish what truly affirms life from what simply stifles it. Though, I guess the real struggle is even defining what "life" actually is, or what exactly it is that suffocates it. It’s possible that the author's own life, and the massive influence he exerts even after his physical passing, is actually what stifles him through over-analysis. Looking at the endless mountain of academic papers, essays, and various critiques regarding N., it feels as though he didn't just die physically; he died as an author too. He basically had to
eat interpretation.

dustyskipper3 said:Well, I suppose N. was quite specific about being "a certain kind of man," mostly so people wouldn't just twist his words to fit whatever narrative they felt like following. He definitely wasn't a nihilist—I mean, how could he be if he wrote "God is dead" and then actually took the time to stare into the void left behind by His absence? And you really can't just lazily label that void as "evil." Not when you consider he's the same author who penned "above good and evil" and spent so much of his life trying to construct a new system of values—something that sits above our usual concepts of "good" and "evil"—to distinguish what truly affirms life from what simply stifles it. Though, I guess the real struggle is even defining what "life" actually is, or what exactly it is that suffocates it. It’s possible that the author's own life, and the massive influence he exerts even after his physical passing, is actually what stifles him through over-analysis. Looking at the endless mountain of academic papers, essays, and various critiques regarding N., it feels as though he didn't just die physically; he died as an author too. He basically had to
eat interpretation.

The full thought goes like this:

Whoever fights monsters should look to make sure they don't become a monster themselves. And if you stare long enough into the abyss, the abyss stares back into you.

If you're going to interpret something, you've got to do it holistically.
But I want to bring Nemruth Dag into this regarding what was said about him "eating interpretation."

In the book "above good and evil," Nietzsche says:

"Every deep thinker fears being understood more than being misunderstood. The latter might bruise his pride, but the former wounds his heart—his compassion, which always asks, 'Why must you also suffer as I do?'"😁

electrictrucker18 said:Anyway, let's get back to my buddy. I guess the real question is, how can he actually find a way to break free from that temptation?😛>

It comes down to the strength of one's will. The very moment he decides that he won't give in, he has essentially already conquered the temptation and stripped it of its power.

The advice others have shared is also sound—choosing your inner circle carefully makes everything much easier.

Sandra Morgan2 said:He had plenty of reasons to be afraid. Nihilism? It’s absolutely devastating to the psyche.

Paul Jones7: "Quote:"

Whether someone overcomes it or not... that's entirely up to the individual. Some people can handle the weight, and some just can't.

I honestly don't see how anyone can stomach that nihilistic nonsense and still keep their sanity intact.

Paul Jones7:

Existential crisis? It’s really just an experience of deep, landscape-driven introspection.

If you’re talking about that crisis triggered by facing nothingness—that absolute void—then I am totally with you. You nailed it. You defined it perfectly with just one single sentence.

I don't see a leap into the abyss of nothingness and a plunge into a nihilistic void as being one and the same. One is an expansion of consciousness; the other is its darkening.

I also think the author of that opening post was dealing with some kind of third type of abyss in their mind. 🙂

signature

That first point you're responding to looks like nothing more than a collection of illogical scribbles to me... it just doesn't track.

Mark Torres14 said:The full thought goes like this:

Whoever fights monsters should look to make sure they don't become a monster themselves. And if you stare long enough into the abyss, the abyss stares back into you.

If you're going to interpret something, you've got to do it holistically.
But I want to bring Nemruth Dag into this regarding what was said about him "eating interpretation."

In the book "above good and evil," Nietzsche says:

"Every deep thinker fears being understood more than being misunderstood. The latter might bruise his pride, but the former wounds his heart—his compassion, which always asks, 'Why must you also suffer as I do?'"😁

Poor guy. 😢
He went searching for truth and only found misery.
He let himself eat interpretation, just like dustyskipper3 so beautifully put it...
That one sentence alone explains exactly why he ended up so incredibly frustrated.

Susan Price30 said:It comes down to the strength of one's will. The very moment he decides that he won't give in, he has essentially already conquered the temptation and stripped it of its power.

The advice others have shared is also sound—choosing your inner circle carefully makes everything much easier.

signature

That first point you're responding to looks like nothing more than a collection of illogical scribbles to me... it just doesn't track.

thanks .... for the signature
As for those "scribbles," let me explain...🙂

Actually, better not. I'll end up writing long essays,
suffocating both you and myself
and I've already typed out so much in private messages that I've used up
my entire weekly dose of EATING INTERPRETATION for this whole thing.
🙂

Mark Torres14 said:The full thought goes like this:

Whoever fights monsters should look to make sure they don't become a monster themselves. And if you stare long enough into the abyss, the abyss stares back into you.

If you're going to interpret something, you've got to do it holistically.
But I want to bring Nemruth Dag into this regarding what was said about him "eating interpretation."

In the book "above good and evil," Nietzsche says:

"Every deep thinker fears being understood more than being misunderstood. The latter might bruise his pride, but the former wounds his heart—his compassion, which always asks, 'Why must you also suffer as I do?'"😁

I suppose... it means that the moment you start fighting against something, you have to internalize it. All the real battles, I guess, they happen within the soul first and foremost. And Dostoevsky... he used to look at the human soul as if it were a battlefield.

Paul Jones7:

I suppose, if one is truly going to attempt an interpretation, it really ought to be done by looking at the whole picture. It seems to me that you shouldn't just pick at bits and pieces... it feels like you might end up trying to eat interpretation rather than actually understanding it, if that makes sense. One should probably consider the entirety of things. Well, I suppose I should probably quote Nemruth Dag here, specifically regarding what dustyskipper3 said about him having "eaten interpretation." Nietzsche says in his book "above good and evil": I suppose... I guess every true thinker might actually fear being understood more than they fear being misunderstood. It’s a strange thought, isn't it? Perhaps, if that's true, the fear of being understood is just a matter of pride—of vanity, really—but the fear of being misunderstood... well, that hits the heart. It stems from a sort of misplaced compassion. A sort of pity, maybe. Like they're looking at everyone else and thinking, "Oh, why would you want to go through the same struggle I have to endure?" It's a heavy way to live, I suppose.😁

So... there it is. I suppose any true deep thinker eventually has to trip themselves up—sort of jump into their own mouth, if that makes sense. It feels necessary, really, because you can't truly claim depth unless you're willing to be contradictory. Maybe. And then there’s this idea of "compassion," too. I've been thinking that maybe compassion is actually just a form of vanity. It's probably just a question of which type of vanity is more powerful. Or perhaps I'm overthinking it. I guess. 😬

electrictrucker18 said:That’s such an interesting quote from Nietzsche. I wonder, how would you guys go about explaining it?

When you stare at a forum long enough, the forum starts staring back at you.

If you start fighting monsters, you might just end up becoming one yourself. 😁

It’s essentially the threshold of hypnotic madness—any kind of intense observation can lead to insanity. It’s inexplicable, really... but those who have looked that deeply either know it, or they've already lost their minds. And then there are the madmen who know it too.

Sandra Morgan2 said:thanks .... for the signature
As for those "scribbles," let me explain...🙂

Actually, better not. I'll end up writing long essays,
suffocating both you and myself
and I've already typed out so much in private messages that I've used up
my entire weekly dose of EATING INTERPRETATION for this whole thing.
🙂

I wasn't referring to your specific post 😁- rather, I was addressing the post you are responding to, the one you are replying to right here.

I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve asked myself—likely because I unconsciously engineer these exact scenarios—why, once I finally commit to a path with total devotion, I realize that the thing diametrically opposed to my choice is actually what defines me... Perhaps some would argue it’s merely a matter of resolve; if we just stuck to that first impulse, we’d convince ourselves it was the "right" one. But that kind of logic is nothing more than running from the abyss—and you can’t truly stare into the void unless it stares back. Of course, there is a resonance there, but it’s our own internal echo that prevents us from actually falling. I often find myself standing on a balcony, staring down—it’s terrifying. It’s hypnotic, enough to make me consider stepping over the railing. I’ve come to suspect that Nietzsche didn't quite grasp the reality of staring into the abyss; he likely used the imagery just for the sake of a striking metaphor. An actual abyss doesn't resonate—it simply pulls you in. If you believe it’s still watching you, it means you haven't been swallowed yet.

Susan Price30 said:I wasn't referring to your specific post 😁- rather, I was addressing the post you are responding to, the one you are replying to right here.

Ah, I see... I just assumed you were talking about my last post.

Well, thank goodness I'm easygoing and self-aware! If I had a bigger ego, I probably would have taken offense at being called "scribbles." 🙂

Anyway, assumptions are the root of all trouble... both the little stuff and the massive stuff, like the very essence of the ABYSS. So, I'm sending you this poem as a gift to illustrate this profound truth.

Ryan Wilson2 said:Let me put it this way: if you have an interest in the mob, if you start reaching out to them, if you actually go through the motions of joining the syndicate... after a while, you aren't the one running the game anymore. It’s the other way around. The organization begins to deal with you, and at that point, there is simply no escape.

👍
Just to add a little nuance here—it’s not so much about you choosing the mob, but rather the mob choosing you, because we're talking about energies that are quite a bit more sophisticated, both in terms of scale and substance.
And it works the exact same way in reverse when you look at forces of light.
But Nietzsche gets down to that one deep, singular truth—one that probably applies most to those today who fancy themselves lone wolves or wise counselors to everyone else. The reason the world is stuck in its current state might be because of them: in reality, they actually belong to the lower astral plane, and they tend to react—either consciously or, more often, unconsciously—to every single anomaly within the system.
Luckily, the higher astral is incredibly refined these days, largely because of the existence of that lower plane, and it always steps in whenever a certain level of intervention is required.
Take someone like Zlatko sudac, for instance—he does plenty of good, even though he knows how to manage hordes of energetically dark forces (whether you call it nationalism, fascism, clericalism, or just the one "correct" spiritual path—you could easily swap that for atheism, liberalism, anarcho-communism, or even the Taliban's spiritual path—the result is identical: it’s all about development and control over that negative lower astral, which Zlatko sudac belongs to as a commander, even if his energy sits slightly higher than the rest).
Does humanity need to experience some kind of universal agony, perhaps through natural decay, just to realize how far off track it's gone?
Look, I don't take pleasure in anyone else's misfortune, and the weight of our collective future rests on all of us to change it... even if I happen to be a collective pessimist, while remaining a personal optimist, of course.
😉