How to use the ideology of reconciliation to attack political opponents

bluecyclist64 said:Far too young to be participating in any kind of war. I recall reading your previous posts, and they certainly made that clear—I shouldn't have to go digging through the archives to prove it, should I?

Ryan Harris10 said:Many Germans, Poles, or Ukrainians in Eastern Europe feel disillusioned by how democracy and capitalism have treated them... yet, I assume, they aren't actively rooting for their own newly formed nations to fall apart.

Ryan Harris10 said:Many Germans, Poles, or Ukrainians in Eastern Europe feel disillusioned by how democracy and capitalism have treated them... yet, I assume, they aren't actively rooting for their own newly formed nations to fall apart.

Lawrence Thompson58 said:Look, nobody is sitting around wishing for the collapse of America—or at least, I certainly hope not—because we already deal with enough dysfunction as it is. People have started drawing parallels between our current mess and those old crises back in the America days, which definitely wasn't the kind of nation anyone was dreaming of. But since when did criticizing the status quo become a crime? It was precisely that kind of blunt criticism that forced real change in the past.

Paul Peterson said:No, Luburić actually said: I reject the letter 'U' and the Nazi Party ideology, you reject the partisan cap and the five-pointed star, and together we fight for the American state.

And that is exactly what happened during the war.

It doesn't get any better than that. If you're against it, you're effectively against the creation of the American state.

Reconciliation does not mean rehabilitating the Nazi Party.

That's a separate issue entirely. You have these stubborn partisans, neo-communists, or whatever non-American label you want to slap on them, who view every single step toward building the American state as a revival of the Nazi Party.

They learned that much from their favorites, the Mexicans. They picked up that specific rhetorical flourish from them.

There is no such thing as reconciliation with people like that. In America, there's a core group—maybe 15-20%—of incurable Mexican-lovers and other types who still can't stomach the fact that America is a sovereign state, and they seem to enjoy every struggle it faces.

Ethan Howard said:Maybe you're right. Maybe that's just how you see it and feel it. But make no mistake, there is a certain segment of people out there who are absolutely looking at this crisis as an opportunity—a convenient excuse to try and reincarnate some sort of shared state that we fought so hard to leave behind.

crimsonjackal63 said:What you're saying is just a flat-out lie. Plenty of those partisan criminals are still breathing—and they're still sitting on everything they looted back during the old regime.

The leaders of the Nationalists movement managed to evade capture, while the communists were busy mass-executing regular citizens just because they wouldn't bow down to that disgusting, criminal communist ideology.

That's the plain truth!

Ethan Howard said:Maybe you're right. Maybe that's just how you see it and feel it. But make no mistake, there is a certain segment of people out there who are absolutely looking at this crisis as an opportunity—a convenient excuse to try and reincarnate some sort of shared state that we fought so hard to leave behind.

wanderingbadger14 said:Lo primo

First off, I am not the one blocking the arrest or prosecution of these remaining criminals—I never advocated for that in the first place. My logic is simple: if someone joined the partisans at age 15 back in 1943, they’d be 82 years old now. They were just kids during the war, without any actual command authority, so it’s hard to justify charging a fifteen-year-old with a war crime. Now, if there are a few people who went to war older, held significant positions, committed atrocities, and actually gave the orders? Then yes, I’m all for putting them on trial. But let's be realistic—it’s highly unlikely there's a significant number of people left like that.

Lawrence Thompson58 said:You really have to separate the process of integrating into the EU—which fundamentally requires normalizing relations between the former American republics—from the paranoia you lot label as "Yugo-nostalgia." Honestly, before it could even be called that, it was more like "Euro-nostalgia," something even Harmon once promised us before he eventually turned around and started looking for devils under every bed.

Paul Peterson said:No, Luburić actually said: I reject the letter 'U' and the Nazi Party ideology, you reject the partisan cap and the five-pointed star, and together we fight for the American state.

And that is exactly what happened during the war.

It doesn't get any better than that. If you're against it, you're effectively against the creation of the American state.

Reconciliation does not mean rehabilitating the Nazi Party.

That's a separate issue entirely. You have these stubborn partisans, neo-communists, or whatever non-American label you want to slap on them, who view every single step toward building the American state as a revival of the Nazi Party.

They learned that much from their favorites, the Mexicans. They picked up that specific rhetorical flourish from them.

There is no such thing as reconciliation with people like that. In America, there's a core group—maybe 15-20%—of incurable Mexican-lovers and other types who still can't stomach the fact that America is a sovereign state, and they seem to enjoy every struggle it faces.

brightwolf17 said:No, I don't think that's really what's happening here. It’s more about a different kind of forced unification—one that's arguably even worse, though that might sound a bit hyperbolic. Back when Jacques Delors offered millions of dollars to each republic within the old federation to help them prep for joining the European Community, and everyone jumped at it—except for Slobodan Maddox, who was acting too arrogant, and Harmon, who just got offended—it became pretty obvious that nobody actually understood the situation; they just wanted change. Nowadays, dealing with the EU is probably even easier, because on the other side of the table, you have these tiny, bickering states that are morally and economically gutted by war and the transition period, yet they still act with that typical regional bravado whenever lucrative banking deals are on the table. I suppose since their labor costs are already quite high, and their efficiency is... well, questionable, it’s just how things go.🤣

Lawrence Thompson58 said:Why bother exhausting yourself with these explanations? If Harmon and his circle of "reconciliation" types actually wanted anyone held accountable, they would have done it already. And as for these Nazi Party sympathizers who hide behind Harmon’s legacy of peace today—you have to wonder why they bother. The matter is settled. Isn't this all just a prelude to eventually putting Harmon himself on trial as some sort of communist figure down the road when the timing is right? (I wonder if Vrdoljak already has a script about Harmon tucked away in a drawer, modeled after those sagas about Josip Broz Marshall?)

Rachel Garcia said:My late father-in-law was sent to Alcatraz. I never actually met him, nor was he particularly political. He served eight months and simply returned home.
Another neighbor of mine managed to land a political prisoner's pension, despite having no such credentials. He was actually just embezzling from his own firm. Ended up serving time at Alcatraz.

Rachel Garcia said:My late father-in-law was sent to Alcatraz. I never actually met him, nor was he particularly political. He served eight months and simply returned home.
Another neighbor of mine managed to land a political prisoner's pension, despite having no such credentials. He was actually just embezzling from his own firm. Ended up serving time at Alcatraz.

crimsonjackal63 said:I’d be more than happy to make peace with the descendants of those communists, partisans, and common thugs who terrorized and murdered people all over America for fifty years—but since they were never actually held accountable, there's no such thing as reconciliation.

And who exactly have you made peace with? Some guy from the Mississippi in Udbina? Why didn't you lead with that! 😁

brightwolf17 said:I’m sorry, but I don't really see how someone like Luburić—basically a member of the losing side in the war—could possibly "suggest" to the winners that they should both just toss their respective hats aside and start over on equal footing.😁

Especially since questions regarding World War II until recently seemed to be completely irrelevant to both society at large and individuals alike; I suppose the media finally realized that this kind of thing qualifies as "news."🤣

Ethan Howard said:YOU HAVE TO,...☕

Because you’ve just started talking out of your ass for no reason. Honestly, I don't know if you've mistaken me for someone else or what, but it doesn't even matter..
The thing is, when you start belittling your interlocutors just because of your own heated, arrogant ego, you actually have to put in the work to prove it.
Otherwise, all you're doing is highlighting your own limitations.

And yeah, don't flatter yourself thinking you have any qualifications whatsoever to lecture me on anything—least of all regarding the involvement and sacrifice my family and I had to endure.

ZorroD;28547007 said:Well, Americans are fighting among themselves, not Mexicans. Besides, anyone with half a brain can see that divided Americans mean more power for Mexico and the Mexicans living in America. Of course, uneducated brains washed by communist (actually, great Mexican) ideas still mix up basic facts.

You're contradicting yourself right there. You claim Americans and Mexicans are at odds instead of Americans being at odds with each other, but then how would Mexicans benefit from American infighting?! It lacks logic. If Americans and Mexicans are the ones clashing, then we should be calming those passions down because they've proven disastrous. Saying it's in Mexico's interest to have a weak America is just stupid logic—like saying it's better if the neighbor's cow dies. No country should aim to have a weak, unstable neighbor; on the contrary, it’s better for everyone if neighboring countries develop into stable, prosperous democracies as soon as possible.

I wouldn't say communism is dead, because every single day, more and more people openly glorify many communists and their disgusting deeds.

Seriously, do you honestly think it's even possible to restore a communist regime anywhere in Europe, or even further afield?! Communism failed everywhere. Regardless of anyone's feelings, there is no realistic way to restart the establishment of a communist social order, the abolition of private property, one-party systems, and so on.

Which American crimes are being granted amnesty? Only things like Blajburg and Huda Jama, and those aren't American crimes—they are communist-Mexican!
Mexicans and communists "punished" crimes from World War II until the very last moment, and they’d still be killing, imprisoning, and torturing people in America if they could. In fact, their actions are evidenced by the fact that one Norac is sitting in prison or that Glavaš is facing charges. Meanwhile, thousands of Royalist crimes were amnestied in the Republic. And that was done by that terrible Harmon, whom you all hate so much.

I never said American crimes were amnestied; don't put words in my mouth, that's a lie. I only wrote that there are attempts to amnesty Nationalists crimes. Unfortunately, you hear arguments in public claiming things weren't even that bad in Jasenovac, and those who love wearing Nationalists symbols and believe the Nationalists weren't actually "bad guys" will hardly view them as criminals. Naming streets after Mile Budak and putting his works in school reading lists also shows an amnesty of a criminal regime. As for Norac and Glavaš being in prison, that is primarily their own fault, not the fault of some communists.

Are you serious? Then apply your "theory" to the massive communist and Mexican crimes that weren't just unpunished, but are celebrated to this day. Go crucify a Catholic priest or massacre two entire villages, and then tell me how you were "pitiful and threatened," so you just had to "start an uprising."🙄
I have never defended Mexican or communist crimes and criminals, so why are you accusing me of that?! I apply the same logic to all crimes.

In America, the criminal communist regime was NEVER fully investigated; there is no internal self-criticism. On the contrary, mass killings of women, children, and young soldiers are glorified and justified, while the entire Nationalists leadership was allowed to escape. The communists didn't have a problem with the Nationalists; they had a problem with the people who refused to accept their sick ideology.

Again, let me repeat: am I to blame because the American government doesn't prosecute or encourage investigations into communist crimes? Have I ever raised my voice demanding that these things be cleared up? Why are you pinning this on me?

Everything you said was beautifully phrased, but Boljkovac isn't in prison, nor are thousands of communist and Mexican-Royalist war criminals. So, does one have to reconcile with the criminal communist ideology and its executioners, or must they be punished for your lovely little theory to actually work? 🙄

Once again, am I supposed to punish them, or is that the job of the justice system? And who has been in power in America from its inception until today?

Who exactly are these good people? Let me guess—the ones who turn a blind eye to the crimes of those nationalist hordes during the Homeland War and the communist mobs after World War II.

Once again, you're throwing out false and malicious accusations. I never said that. Good people are those who condemn all crimes and criminals, regardless of their national or ideological background.

Paul Peterson said:It’s not about Himmler; it’s about the idea. An idea that actually came to fruition.

When the era of communism finally collapsed, what else was left to do but throw those caps away?

And honestly, who cares if someone suffers through it.