What is power?

Brian Foster3 said:And honestly, isn't "power" just another word for being able to grab pleasure and run away from misery?

So, following up on that, I’m basically building on my previous comment regarding your post, which, if you ask me, still hasn't been even remotely "defended" properly by the words you've actually put down.

I still firmly believe that a person has the capacity to reshape their own future, regardless of how much their past tries to dictate it. Basically, the more capable someone is of doing that, the more "powerful" they truly are.

Hopefully, that fleshes out my "sketch" with a bit more actual ink this time.

It does. I agree. I wasn't emphasizing it on purpose; I was keeping it on the back burner. Why? Because the people who actually know where and how they can make a choice are incredibly rare. What most of humanity calls "free will"? Yeah, that's a total myth. 😉

I disagree. Once a person develops a solid identity and a decent amount of self-awareness, they aren't going to react to external pressures and social influences the same way they did when they were teenagers.

They’ll react correctly—meaning, they'll act freely. Now, you could try to lump that into the same category as before, but we both know we're talking about two completely different approaches here.

Even if there's only one such person out of a hundred, it completely breaks your rule, and that's a massive point because rules don't exist in these kinds of relationships.

There are definitely rules. Spiritual laws are absolute, and everything happens according to them. As for the "grown-ups," they just choose their pleasures and avoid their pains with more precision than a teenager would. But the underlying principle remains exactly the same; they're just playing the game on a higher level.

Which part of what I said makes you miss the fact that a human being is capable of choosing many things, including their own desires? Their motives and their will? (Not in every single area, obviously.)

Maybe I'm just fighting against my own "impotence" through these words, but I still think I'm making sense. Like I said, even if I am lightyears behind what's being discussed personally.

Among the Kabbalists, the rule goes: what cannot be attained, cannot be named.
Basically, if you haven't achieved something, you can't talk about it accurately, because you don't actually *know* it. You haven't experienced it firsthand.

Look, obviously pleasure is the goal. But there are a million different ways to get there and a thousand different tools to use, and that’s exactly what I’m getting at here.

Nobody is out here claiming that everyone experiences pleasure or pain in the exact same way, okay? But those individual differences don't change the core narrative. The fundamental story is the bedrock of all those variations and it stays constant, so understanding that foundation is way more important than obsessing over every little subjective nuance people want to throw at you.

Quincy:

If your argument is that a person isn't "in control" of themselves—that they're just conditioned or programmed because they're chasing pleasure then that doesn't prove they aren't "in control," it just proves that's how they're wired. If seeking pleasure or feeling "pain" is just baked into my nature, that doesn't mean I'm wearing some kind of "shackles"; it's just a fact of existence, like the fact that I have ten fingers on my hands, and I'm totally fine with that.

Whether you're a happy slave or a miserable one, the reality remains the same: you're still a slave.😉

Quincy:

The idea of "shackles" only exists if you look at it from an impossible perspective that I have zero interest in pursuing, because first off, life is far too short for this nonsense, and second, everything happens when it happens, which will eventually lead to progress. The truth is, I accepted my "role" a long time ago, so I don't feel manipulated, powerless, or programmed in the slightest.

Of course not. 🙂 But you haven't looked deep enough. We all love to sugarcoat things about ourselves just so we can feel better about our situation.😉

Quincy:

If we had to talk about it constantly, I wouldn't bother bringing it up, because there's no point dwelling on obvious stuff, if you catch my drift; what I was actually trying to say was just a different way of looking at the whole situation. In the end, maybe you just phrased things poorly and I ended up nitpicking your specific wording.

Honestly, it might not even matter. What matters is the intention behind this whole discussion we're having. If our intentions are right, the laws of the universe will take care of us both (and maybe some others) in the best way possible, but if our intentions are garbage, then both you and I—and whoever else gets caught in it—are going to suffer.🙂

Stay golden! 😍

Spot on. We’re talking about a specific vision or a product here, not just some skeletal framework. That distinction is huge for where we're headed with this whole discussion!

Quincy:

I'm with you on that. I actually left that part out on purpose, just keeping it on the back burner. Why? Because let’s face it—hardly anyone actually understands where or how they even have a choice in the first place. What most people call "free will" is basically just an illusion. 😉

Hey, just wanted to jump in and say—yeah, there definitely is! 🙂

Quincy:

Look, there are definitely rules in play here. Spiritual laws are absolute—they’re the foundation for everything that happens. As for those "grown-ups," they aren't playing by different rules; they’re just getting way more intentional about choosing their pleasures and avoiding the unnecessary drama that comes with being a teenager. The core principle stays exactly the same. They’ve just leveled up the game!

Nah, I was actually talking about the rules from a different angle. You know, like how we aren't all cut from the same cloth—just like that paragraph right above!

Quincy:

It’s a fundamental rule among Kabbalists: if you can't actually reach it, you don't even get to call it by name! Look, you can't really talk about something if you haven't actually achieved it yet. It’s pretty simple: if you haven't done the work, you don't truly know what it's all about. You haven't lived it, so you don't have that real-world experience to back up your words!

Honestly, I can't tell if I've actually lived through it or if I just haven't put it into practice in my daily routine yet! 😉

Quincy:

Look, you can be as happy or as satisfied as you want, but that doesn't change the fact that you're still a slave. 😉

Does being unable to control the weather on command make me a slave? Or is it the fact that I can't just lift massive boulders with my bare hands? What actually stands between us and true happiness, total satisfaction, or finding that perfect sense of peace?

Quincy:

Hell no! 🙂 You just haven't looked deep enough! Look, we Americans love to think highly of ourselves—it’s just how we stay positive and keep things moving! 😉

So, looking at the question above... what actually matters more than this if we want to truly thrive? And I mean, in a way that lasts a lifetime.

Honestly, maybe it’s not even about the specifics. It’s all about the intention we bring to the table when we engage and debate. If our intentions are solid, the laws will naturally work out in our favor (and for others too). But if our motives are off, then both you and I—plus whoever else is involved—are going to end up suffering. 🙂

I’m with you on that. I’ll always value a human touch; it's basically a prerequisite for everything you're talking about.

When it comes to any other "methods," I’d much rather dive into professional literature or just teach myself from scratch than deal with the "wisdom" people try to shove down my throat while they're busy venting their frustrations—which, let's be real, is usually wrong anyway.

Bless you! 😍

Man, right back at ya! 🙂

True power belongs to the man who can master both fear and clarity. If he lets his own influence blind him, he’ll stay stuck in those lower vibrations forever. But once you conquer your own ego, you finally become a man of true wisdom. That’s how Don Juan would put it.

neonscout5 said:True power belongs to the man who can master both fear and clarity. If he lets his own influence blind him, he’ll stay stuck in those lower vibrations forever. But once you conquer your own ego, you finally become a man of true wisdom. That’s how Don Juan would put it.

Based on that logic, how would you define what actual power is?

In that context... even a powerful individual hasn't quite managed to overcome their own self-isolation.

neonscout5 said:In that context... even a powerful individual hasn't quite managed to overcome their own self-isolation.

Look, a powerful person has power—but what actually *is* power? Let’s stay focused on the question here.

Not cognitive

To me, true power lies in the ability to tackle my own struggles through nothing more than my own grit and the grace of God.

brisktiger56 said:🙂I left you some room to think, and wow, you really got emotionally invested there. So, according to you, day and night don't exist for the sun, but there's this darkness surrounding it? Well, yeah. Darkness was already sitting there long before the sun ever showed up to brighten things up. Light had to be missing for the situation to change in the first place. It's kind of like that riddle in the movie Life Is Beautiful: Say my name and I am gone! Who am I?

Silence!

The moment you say the word "silence," you aren't actually experiencing silence anymore—you've just created a phenomenon that shifts things in a very clear direction > much like those situations Einstein talks about.

Anyway, let's get back to talking about power, or at least try to stay a little on topic.

Man, the moment you utter any word at all, the silence is gone—even if you're yelling "Silence!"
If that doesn't click for you, I honestly don't know how to help.🤷
Basically, I just don't have the power to make you see that.😁

casualmaker13 said:Man, the moment you utter any word at all, the silence is gone—even if you're yelling "Silence!"
If that doesn't click for you, I honestly don't know how to help.🤷
Basically, I just don't have the power to make you see that.😁

Silence vanishes within the exact radius that the spoken word can be heard. That vibration of matter carrying the sound isn't actually the opposite of silence. There were already movements happening in that space—we just didn't hear them or see them, which is really more of a "us" problem than a physics one.

You aren't even trying to wrap your head around my point. You’re just aiming all your energy at attacking some random opinion... like 😉Einstein's. Personally, his explanation feels a lot more logical than yours. Sorry, not sorry. 🙂

Your perspective only holds water if you ignore the actual laws of the universe. To you, light and dark are opposites—but there are other wavelengths out there that your specific way of seeing things wouldn't even register. Some alien would just sit there listening to you drone on about "opposites"...

Basically, I don't have the power to make you understand.😁

No, what you *do* have is the attempt to force your worldview on me, but you're missing the actual arguments. That's the part where you're falling short.

Sound logic is just one of the links in the chain of influence.

stormycanyon11 said:To me, true power lies in the ability to tackle my own struggles through nothing more than my own grit and the grace of God.

I mean, that makes sense if that's your worldview...

But just think about someone living in some totally isolated community—say, deep in the forests of the Pacific Northwest—who’s never heard of God and doesn't believe in any of that stuff. How would you even define power for a person like that?

brisktiger56 said:I mean, that makes sense if that's your worldview...

But just think about someone living in some totally isolated community—say, deep in the forests of the Pacific Northwest—who’s never heard of God and doesn't believe in any of that stuff. How would you even define power for a person like that?

They probably believe in something undefined—maybe just luck. But can anyone truly have power without a little bit of luck on their side?

irongardener18 said:They probably believe in something undefined—maybe just luck. But can anyone truly have power without a little bit of luck on their side?

Wait, what? I actually see it the opposite way—power shouldn't depend on belief in God or some random streak of luck. Honestly, luck feels more like a gambler's crutch to me; it's kind of an undesirable variable if you're actually trying to hold the reins and keep things under 100% control.

brisktiger56 said:Wait, what? I actually see it the opposite way—power shouldn't depend on belief in God or some random streak of luck. Honestly, luck feels more like a gambler's crutch to me; it's kind of an undesirable variable if you're actually trying to hold the reins and keep things under 100% control.

If we think we have total control, there's always that "X factor" that can either help us out or trip us up. When things go smoothly, we just call it luck, right? We can strive for power, but in today's society, isn't it a bit utopian to think we can ever truly hold it all?

irongardener18 said:If we think we have total control, there's always that "X factor" that can either help us out or trip us up. When things go smoothly, we just call it luck, right? We can strive for power, but in today's society, isn't it a bit utopian to think we can ever truly hold it all?

I see it differently—our agency is ours to command, while external circumstances are just variables that might nudge the direction we're heading.

In this modern society, honestly, very few people have the guts to actually grab hold of their own destiny. Take me, for example: I work, I live, I’ve got my family in the city. I’m certain life would be more peaceful out in the suburbs or maybe even rural Montana, and I’d probably be happier, too—but instead, I’m sitting here saving up for an apartment in a smoggy metropolis. What’s stopping me from moving to the country? Just pure cowardice, really, because I haven't been brave enough to exercise my own will.

I could do it, but I don't :/ and it isn't because someone is holding me back—it's because I'm the one setting my own limits.

brisktiger56 said:I see it differently—our agency is ours to command, while external circumstances are just variables that might nudge the direction we're heading.

In this modern society, honestly, very few people have the guts to actually grab hold of their own destiny. Take me, for example: I work, I live, I’ve got my family in the city. I’m certain life would be more peaceful out in the suburbs or maybe even rural Montana, and I’d probably be happier, too—but instead, I’m sitting here saving up for an apartment in a smoggy metropolis. What’s stopping me from moving to the country? Just pure cowardice, really, because I haven't been brave enough to exercise my own will.

I could do it, but I don't :/ and it isn't because someone is holding me back—it's because I'm the one setting my own limits.

If I had truly taken charge of my life, I'd be living in a major city right now. But I think I was always waiting for a specific catalyst to give me that push—maybe a better salary, finding the right person, or finally solving the housing issue. Instead, I stayed in a smaller town. At the end of the day, the reality remains: I didn't use my power to chase what I really wanted.

irongardener18 said:If I had truly taken charge of my life, I'd be living in a major city right now. But I think I was always waiting for a specific catalyst to give me that push—maybe a better salary, finding the right person, or finally solving the housing issue. Instead, I stayed in a smaller town. At the end of the day, the reality remains: I didn't use my power to chase what I really wanted.

Are you kidding me, or are you being dead serious about what your goals actually were!? It sounds like we’re aiming for totally different lifestyles here 😉!

Looking at what you wrote, if I had to take a guess, it seems like you just weren't motivated enough—you didn't want those things badly enough to actually grab them. Am I hitting the mark there?

When you talk about "power," the real question is whether you actually had the leverage to turn a thought into reality. When I went off to college, I didn't have much agency of my own, though my brothers stepped up and covered my tuition and housing. In terms of how life works, it’s like a baby wanting to experience the world but having zero survival power without help from their parents. Maybe you simply lacked the necessary resources—because clearly, the desire was there, so that part wasn't the issue.

What kind of small town are we talking about? And what's the thing you're actually missing most?

brisktiger56 said:Are you kidding me, or are you being dead serious about what your goals actually were!? It sounds like we’re aiming for totally different lifestyles here 😉!

Looking at what you wrote, if I had to take a guess, it seems like you just weren't motivated enough—you didn't want those things badly enough to actually grab them. Am I hitting the mark there?

When you talk about "power," the real question is whether you actually had the leverage to turn a thought into reality. When I went off to college, I didn't have much agency of my own, though my brothers stepped up and covered my tuition and housing. In terms of how life works, it’s like a baby wanting to experience the world but having zero survival power without help from their parents. Maybe you simply lacked the necessary resources—because clearly, the desire was there, so that part wasn't the issue.

What kind of small town are we talking about? And what's the thing you're actually missing most?

Power is an interesting thing; we all have it, but the real question is whether it's smart to use it every single time. I wouldn't trade my current life for a massive metropolis. Back when I actually had the drive and the means to move, my gut told me it wasn't the right move. I didn't have anyone to back me up (my brother was still just a kid 😢) and my intuition told me I'd just be struggling to get by in a huge city. Honestly, I'm glad I didn't push it then, because now I can head into the big city whenever I feel like it—whether it's shopping with friends or catching a concert with my partner. If I had moved, I'd probably be stuck coming back to this small town just to ask my sponsors for help.

irongardener18 said:Power is an interesting thing; we all have it, but the real question is whether it's smart to use it every single time. I wouldn't trade my current life for a massive metropolis. Back when I actually had the drive and the means to move, my gut told me it wasn't the right move. I didn't have anyone to back me up (my brother was still just a kid 😢) and my intuition told me I'd just be struggling to get by in a huge city. Honestly, I'm glad I didn't push it then, because now I can head into the big city whenever I feel like it—whether it's shopping with friends or catching a concert with my partner. If I had moved, I'd probably be stuck coming back to this small town just to ask my sponsors for help.

That really shows how much you’re limiting your own sense of agency by looking at things through such a narrow lens. It sounds like you’ve always operated under the assumption that someone else is going to be there to pick up the tab. Personally, I tried to flip the script. I told myself—plain and simple—that if I could cover my own rent and bills while I was in college, then I’d stick with it; otherwise, I was heading straight back to my hometown.

Basically, I set a goal and used whatever leverage I had to make it happen. Since I didn't let self-doubt or these arbitrary "safety nets" get in my way, everything played out exactly how it was meant to. Nobody from my old neighborhood has had to sponsor me since those days—in fact, if you want to get really crazy about it, the opposite has actually happened.

brisktiger56 said:I see it differently—our agency is ours to command, while external circumstances are just variables that might nudge the direction we're heading.

In this modern society, honestly, very few people have the guts to actually grab hold of their own destiny. Take me, for example: I work, I live, I’ve got my family in the city. I’m certain life would be more peaceful out in the suburbs or maybe even rural Montana, and I’d probably be happier, too—but instead, I’m sitting here saving up for an apartment in a smoggy metropolis. What’s stopping me from moving to the country? Just pure cowardice, really, because I haven't been brave enough to exercise my own will.

I could do it, but I don't :/ and it isn't because someone is holding me back—it's because I'm the one setting my own limits.

irongardener18 said:Power is an interesting thing; we all have it, but the real question is whether it's smart to use it every single time. I wouldn't trade my current life for a massive metropolis. Back when I actually had the drive and the means to move, my gut told me it wasn't the right move. I didn't have anyone to back me up (my brother was still just a kid 😢) and my intuition told me I'd just be struggling to get by in a huge city. Honestly, I'm glad I didn't push it then, because now I can head into the big city whenever I feel like it—whether it's shopping with friends or catching a concert with my partner. If I had moved, I'd probably be stuck coming back to this small town just to ask my sponsors for help.

So, it seems legitimate to ask the opposite question: "What is helplessness?"

Because it's pretty clear there is a massive gap between "not wanting to" and "not being able to." The first one is a conscious choice to refrain from using power, while the second is an expression of identity—the fact that something fundamentally inside a person prevents them from realizing their potential power.

brisktiger56 said:That really shows how much you’re limiting your own sense of agency by looking at things through such a narrow lens. It sounds like you’ve always operated under the assumption that someone else is going to be there to pick up the tab. Personally, I tried to flip the script. I told myself—plain and simple—that if I could cover my own rent and bills while I was in college, then I’d stick with it; otherwise, I was heading straight back to my hometown.

Basically, I set a goal and used whatever leverage I had to make it happen. Since I didn't let self-doubt or these arbitrary "safety nets" get in my way, everything played out exactly how it was meant to. Nobody from my old neighborhood has had to sponsor me since those days—in fact, if you want to get really crazy about it, the opposite has actually happened.

🙏
Reading this just now, I couldn't help but wonder why I wasn't a bit more courageous myself.