Operation Pedophilia

bluemarlin19 said:Whatever, you're just intentionally spreading lies and spamming the thread.

Oh, please. It’s actually incredibly important.

There's really no need for the passive aggression here; my question wasn't even remotely condescending.

Richard James2 said:Oh, please. It’s actually incredibly important.

There's really no need for the passive aggression here; my question wasn't even remotely condescending.

You've certainly shown off what you know.

Unless you can back up your claim with a direct quote from some official document proving that the clergy was actually required to report cases of pedophilia to secular authorities back in 1960, then stop spamming this thread with lies.

bluemarlin19 said:You've certainly shown off what you know.

Unless you can back up your claim with a direct quote from some official document proving that the clergy was actually required to report cases of pedophilia to secular authorities back in 1960, then stop spamming this thread with lies.

I think I have; I wouldn't bet my life on you, unless "knowledge" now means freestyle interpretations of legal documents.

Prove your claim with a quote from any actual document showing that the clergy was required to report cases of pedophilia to secular authorities back in 1960, or stop spamming this thread with lies.

Now this is just plain rude, and as such, we're done here.

This thread isn't going to be hijacked by pamphleteers under any circumstances—better to just stick to your favorite tradition of rotting at the bottom of some obscure PDF, right? :maše:

Richard James2 said:Yeah, and?

Look, after the Boston Globe dropped that massive investigative series back in January 2002 exposing the whole mess of priestly abuse and the systemic cover-ups—which, let's be honest, was a total bombshell—everything changed. It wasn't just some minor scandal; it was a complete breakdown of trust that shook the foundations of everything we thought we knew about how things were handled. A Pulitzer Prize winner. The USCCB was essentially backed into a corner by public outcry, leaving them with absolutely no choice but to implement those changes. svom It’s working, but we aren't talking about the parish level here—we're talking about the broader scope of the Diocese.

What exactly does this contradict? The idea that extensive church guidelines have been issued mandating full cooperation with civil authorities? I highly doubt it.

Look, you didn't actually answer my question.

Look, I am telling you—yes, I am, and this is the third time I’ve said it—but honestly, your response isn't exactly helping your case.

Back in 2011, according to the Levada poll data, Ratzinger's successor issued a direct mandate to local bishops: they had until May 2012 to roll out formal protocols for handling sexual abuse cases. These guidelines were supposed to explicitly include a requirement to cooperate with local law enforcement.

Once again, we’re looking at something that isn't even a universal law for the entire Catholic Church, let alone something that's actually being enforced. It simply isn't. The directive basically says we’re looking at implementing local-level regulations sometime down the road. It's one of those "wait and see" moves where they promise to hammer out specific guidelines for individual jurisdictions in the near future, but for now, it's just more talk about future bureaucracy..

Look, the Pope has already issued the directive to the bishops to report abuse cases. He didn't say anything about sitting around waiting for all the paperwork and technicalities to be finalized, so the call to action stands right now.

By the way, just because something is considered "in force throughout the entire Church" doesn't mean it’s automatically excessive or problematic on its own—not unless it runs headfirst into local legal norms.

Look, you didn't actually answer the simple question I asked.

Look, I am—I really am. It’s just that you’re the one deciding which minor drama deserves a spotlight and which thing needs you screaming about at full volume. Lies, pure lies. These Catholic pamphlets are nothing but garbage—down with all of this!

Canon 2368 has absolutely nothing to do with reporting anything to anyone... so we're just looking at a pile of lies on top of more lies.

Qualifications alone aren't going to buy you any credibility.

Look, I honestly think your excessive hysteria stems from a fundamental misunderstanding of how legal documentation is actually interpreted. I can’t exactly meet you halfway here unless I just parrot back the same old line: the issued document is in direct correlation with several other Canons. You simply cannot implement one without the other correctly. This specific document states that... the accused must be suspended from celebrating Mass and hearing sacramental confessions, stripped of all their official benefits, and, in the most severe cases, reported to the secular authorities.

It shouldn't even be necessary for me to spell out that the crime of solicitation specifically applied and to cases of sexual abuse, among other things. Every diocese was required to have these protocols in place and, when a charge came in, act accordingly. I am not going to repeat myself again.

neither CS(Crimen Sollicitationis), nor its 1922 predecessor, nor Sacramentorum Sanctitatis Tutela, nor de delictis gravioribus mandate reporting a pedophile to civil authorities.

Those two later documents are improved norms established according to the aforementioned Canons—which apparently mean nothing to you, 'cause then you don't have a case 🙂 — such as de delictis gravioribus, which, even if it doesn't explicitly mention abuse in one specific paragraph, emphasizes extending the statute of limitations (when dealing with crimes against minors).

By the way, thanks to the implementation of Sacramentorum Sanctitatis Tutela, six priests in the Irish diocese of Ferns were handed over to civil authorities—two of whom are currently serving prison time. That’s surely because bluemarlin19 explained to them exactly how to interpret the given norms.

Likewise, again, the decisions of the Church in America don't bind anyone outside of their jurisdiction (if anything, Ratzinger advocated for reducing the authority of local Bishops' Conferences because of things like this).

Yeah, and? How does that address the falsehood that "to this day, the Church binds no one to cooperate with secular authorities"?

Which document, if you please???

That was an oversight on my part—anyway, I know what the Decalogue document is; it's a separate section of Sacramentorum, there was no need to pull it out separately since it deals with the anathema of pedophilia anyway.

great believer

Aaaa, just tell me where it hurts. 🙂

In short—you're lying, manipulating, and trying to dilute the topic with cheap Catholic apologetics.

I could retaliate with heavy artillery and write that you are legally illiterate, a self-righteous, foaming-at-the-mouth, insolent interlocutor who is doing all of the above (and is), while adding a dash of personal animosity, but I won't. Although, oops, I guess I just did.

Nice try, though.

I just caught your translation of Canon 2368

Original:
"Canon 2368 § 1. anyone Who Has committed The crime of solicitation dealt with in Canon 904 is to be suspended fra celebrating Mass and hearing sacramental confessions and, if the gravity of the crime calls for it, he is to be declared unfit for hearing them; he is to be deprived of all benefices and ranks, of the right to vote or be voted for, and is to be declared unfit for all of them, and in more serious cases he is to be reduced to the lay state."

😂

The Pope recently called for people to come forward and report pedophilia, which feels pretty ironic given the history of punishing those involved:

Bryan Kern7 said:I noticed that not a single victim has spoken up on this thread yet, so I guess I'll go first.

When I was thirteen, a priest in my parish tried to rape me. I feel incredibly lucky that he didn't succeed in what he was planning... but I later found out he was doing this constantly. My then-friend's sister was one of his victims, too. When her family actually tried to report him, they were met with a warning from the Church stating that if they went through with it, they would be excommunicated and branded for life. I don't know if they eventually reached some kind of settlement to keep their mouths shut, but that was the threat.
The priest was young, maybe around thirty, and he had been hired to teach religion at the local elementary school. It wasn't until several girls and their families complained to the principal about him touching them inappropriately that he finally lost his job and was transferred to a different parish.
I heard that in that second parish, he tried the same thing with another girl, but her father handled it in a much more "direct" way since the Church refused to do anything. He beat the man like a dog, after which the priest was shuffled off to yet another parish.
The last time I saw him was during a papal visit in Los Angeles; he was still in his priestly robes. He actually recognized me and had the nerve to praise me, mentioning how well things were going in his new parish.
After that, it hit me: the Church is never going to change. They will always protect their own, no matter the cost.

An experience like that absolutely destroys a child and leaves a mark that lasts a lifetime. When you're a kid and you believe in a priest—someone you confess to, someone you truly see as a representative of God's will on earth—once that trust is broken, nothing is ever the same again.
Of course, they are humans and sinners just like everyone else, but when you're a child, you don't see it that way. You can't even fathom that they are capable of such things. And you can bet your life that a parent's last thought would ever be to let their child be alone with a priest, because they know he could absolutely wreck them.

Bottom line: we need much stricter punishments for pedophilia. Honestly, the Pope should consider allowing priests to marry; that might solve at least part of the problems that stem from celibacy.

That bolded part is the only real cure for a pedophile priest. Even God told that angry father to beat him, and it worked—that priest never touched another girl again.

Austin Martinez20 said:That bolded part is the only real cure for a pedophile priest. Even God told that angry father to beat him, and it worked—that priest never touched another girl again.

You people acting like you're doing God's work really need to learn how to stop mixing divine will with earthly nonsense and actually follow some kind of order...

The father is just as much a failure as the Church itself because they didn't report the abuser to the police. And the fallout? That same priest is still out there serving as a parish priest in rural West Virginia today...

bluemarlin19 said:You people acting like you're doing God's work really need to learn how to stop mixing divine will with earthly nonsense and actually follow some kind of order...

The father is just as much a failure as the Church itself because they didn't report the abuser to the police. And the fallout? That same priest is still out there serving as a parish priest in rural West Virginia today...

You missed my point. Of course he needs to be reported, but I wanted to give him a piece of my mind first. And newsflash, I'm no saint... 😉

Tell me exactly where this idiot is so I can go help some other parents.

Here's another one, fresh off the press:

Austin Martinez20 said:You missed my point. Of course he needs to be reported, but I wanted to give him a piece of my mind first. And newsflash, I'm no saint... 😉

Tell me exactly where this idiot is so I can go help some other parents.

Here's another one, fresh off the press:

My bad, I take it back.

Austin Martinez20 said:You missed my point. Of course he needs to be reported, but I wanted to give him a piece of my mind first. And newsflash, I'm no saint... 😉

Tell me exactly where this idiot is so I can go help some other parents.

Here's another one, fresh off the press:

I want that more than anything, but it would be completely irresponsible of me to throw accusations of pedophilia and rape at someone based solely on the word of an anonymous person whose name I don't even know.

Even though, personally, I believe every single word she wrote, the responsibility for reporting him lies with his victims and the people they reached out to—the people who have been dragging him from one parish to another while he tries to lecture everyone about immorality, AIDS, and all that other nonsense....

Austin Martinez20 said:The Pope recently called for people to come forward and report pedophilia, which feels pretty ironic given the history of punishing those involved:

Honestly, it's a good thing they haven't found another way to spin it yet.

Listen up, fellow Americans. Stop sending your kids to church alone, and seriously, stop giving them any pocket money. Those people have way more than we do:

http://www.actualnews.com/article/us-economic-trend-

Heads up, parents—a pedophile just hit the streets after getting out of prison:

What’s going on with this stock? Has it just flatlined?
I haven't watched the documentary yet, but I'll definitely put it on my list.

Anyway, some actual news. A Cardinal out in Chicago just released 15,000 documents detailing abuse cases:

Then there were those two other recent cases, but I can't recall the specific keywords to track them down on Google.

Austin Hill6 said:What’s going on with this stock? Has it just flatlined?
I haven't watched the documentary yet, but I'll definitely put it on my list.

Anyway, some actual news. A Cardinal out in Chicago just released 15,000 documents detailing abuse cases:

Then there were those two other recent cases, but I can't recall the specific keywords to track them down on Google.

This keeps moving forward as long as people actually have the guts to demand accountability and equal treatment under the law.

Unfortunately, the Catholic Church hasn't changed its playbook at all. They still act like they're above the law, and what's even worse is that citizens in this country seem to think it's perfectly fine for them to be untouchable just because "tradition" says so—a tradition they've swallowed whole without ever questioning it.

It isn't just that convicted pedophiles aren't being kicked out of service; it's not even just that the church hasn't introduced strict rules into its own canon law requiring the reporting of abuse allegations to secular authorities—which is exactly what allowed them to get into this mess in the first place. No, the absolute worst part is that our state investigators haven't even bothered to look into how priests accused and convicted of pedophilia are simply shuffled from one parish to another. They haven't investigated who was pulling the strings, nor have they demanded access to the KC archives, where you can bet your life there's documentation of exactly who abused whom and where.

One tragic example of both sides of this coin is a girl who spoke up about this topic. Maybe out of shame, or maybe just wanting to move on with her life, she didn't report the priest who tried to rape her and ended up raping her younger friend instead. On the other side of the coin, you have the church authorities who, despite knowing full well about the behavior and danger posed by that particular priest, continue to shuffle him from parish to parish across the country.

That's why we need documentaries like this aired on major networks, and why we need to spread awareness about what happens when we blindly accept authority without critical thought and then force those same blind beliefs onto our children.

The responsibility lies with all of us, because there are far too many people and institutions in this country who believe—and actually act—as if they are above the law.

The way society just turns a blind eye to the human rights atrocities being committed by the CIA is honestly chilling; you could draw a direct line from this collective apathy to how the citizens of Germany stood by during WWII. It’s the exact same pattern of behavior. We're watching a horror movie unfold in real time, yet everyone acts like it doesn't matter.

Slav, thanks for handling the translation. I've uploaded the PDF under Movies > Documentary Commentary and dropped the link in the signature.
I'm going to go ahead and catch up on the rest of this thread.