Is permanent happiness actually possible?

"Quote:"

amberotter82 said:Exactly, I was just asking so we could pin down what kind of peace you’re actually talking about. How someone gets there is a whole different story, and honestly, it shouldn't be treated like some exclusive club reserved for specific religions or philosophies. Though, I do think it involves letting go of all attachments, dropping the ego, and really grasping how everything is just fleeting and ultimately empty... If you follow that path, it might look like a vegetative state—like Gilach said—but in this sense, he isn't being negative. It's more like a total release from all the heavy lifting of the material world, or maybe even reaching the truth. You wouldn't be happy, but you wouldn't be unhappy either. The real question is, would people actually settle for that kind of peace? Is it even a path meant for everyone? And I don't mean whether people are smart enough to grasp the concept, but whether they have the capacity to actually live in it and find contentment there. Can we really detach ourselves from our "self" that much?

It’s actually possible. Through all that constant grinding... through the struggle. As we fight and navigate everything life throws at us, you start to realize we’re all just existing within this tiny little bubble of limited space and finite time. You begin to see that we're fighting a losing battle—one we can never truly win. But the illusion is powerful. The more convinced we are that we actually have control over our lives, the stronger that feeling becomes. Honestly? Maybe that isn't even a bad thing. In fact, it might be a good thing. 😬

You have to wrap your head around this and just accept the inevitability of Defeat. If you can actually do that, then Peace becomes possible. It’s within reach.

"Quote:"

amberotter82 said:Exactly, I was just asking so we could pin down what kind of peace you’re actually talking about. How someone gets there is a whole different story, and honestly, it shouldn't be treated like some exclusive club reserved for specific religions or philosophies. Though, I do think it involves letting go of all attachments, dropping the ego, and really grasping how everything is just fleeting and ultimately empty... If you follow that path, it might look like a vegetative state—like Gilach said—but in this sense, he isn't being negative. It's more like a total release from all the heavy lifting of the material world, or maybe even reaching the truth. You wouldn't be happy, but you wouldn't be unhappy either. The real question is, would people actually settle for that kind of peace? Is it even a path meant for everyone? And I don't mean whether people are smart enough to grasp the concept, but whether they have the capacity to actually live in it and find contentment there. Can we really detach ourselves from our "self" that much?

Look, we’re never going to fully escape the grip of material needs. Truth is relative—it scales directly with whatever interests or material constraints are at play (though it's not just about money; interests can get pretty complicated). The less those dependencies weigh on us, the more objective the Truth becomes. Basically, Peace is just a function of those two variables, moving in inverse proportion to how tightly they're linked. 🙄

amberotter82 said:Exactly, I was just asking so we could pin down what kind of peace you’re actually talking about. How someone gets there is a whole different story, and honestly, it shouldn't be treated like some exclusive club reserved for specific religions or philosophies. Though, I do think it involves letting go of all attachments, dropping the ego, and really grasping how everything is just fleeting and ultimately empty... If you follow that path, it might look like a vegetative state—like Gilach said—but in this sense, he isn't being negative. It's more like a total release from all the heavy lifting of the material world, or maybe even reaching the truth. You wouldn't be happy, but you wouldn't be unhappy either. The real question is, would people actually settle for that kind of peace? Is it even a path meant for everyone? And I don't mean whether people are smart enough to grasp the concept, but whether they have the capacity to actually live in it and find contentment there. Can we really detach ourselves from our "self" that much?

Some people would be satisfied just knowing this is the Path to Choose—the way for those who can rise above the material clutter of this world. They want to transcend the chaos of our Unbearable Easy Existence. Who is this path actually for? Maybe it’s for the ones who see what's invisible, who spot the hidden patterns and can actually read the Signs along the Way. It's for them... the ones capable of speaking that silent language.

"Sometimes you’ve got to serve if you ever want to lead," says Odysseus and King Itachi. 🧐

Ronald Rogers27

Ronald Rogers27 said:"Quote:"

It’s actually possible. Through all that constant grinding... through the struggle. As we fight and navigate everything life throws at us, you start to realize we’re all just existing within this tiny little bubble of limited space and finite time. You begin to see that we're fighting a losing battle—one we can never truly win. But the illusion is powerful. The more convinced we are that we actually have control over our lives, the stronger that feeling becomes. Honestly? Maybe that isn't even a bad thing. In fact, it might be a good thing. 😬

You have to wrap your head around this and just accept the inevitability of Defeat. If you can actually do that, then Peace becomes possible. It’s within reach.

"Quote:"

Look, we’re never going to fully escape the grip of material needs. Truth is relative—it scales directly with whatever interests or material constraints are at play (though it's not just about money; interests can get pretty complicated). The less those dependencies weigh on us, the more objective the Truth becomes. Basically, Peace is just a function of those two variables, moving in inverse proportion to how tightly they're linked. 🙄

Some people would be satisfied just knowing this is the Path to Choose—the way for those who can rise above the material clutter of this world. They want to transcend the chaos of our Unbearable Easy Existence. Who is this path actually for? Maybe it’s for the ones who see what's invisible, who spot the hidden patterns and can actually read the Signs along the Way. It's for them... the ones capable of speaking that silent language.

"Sometimes you’ve got to serve if you ever want to lead," says Odysseus and King Itachi. 🧐

Ronald Rogers27

Exactly. But I wonder how much of that is actually doable since we aren't living in some remote cabin in the middle of the Rockies, totally surrendered to nature. We're constantly feeling the hits from the real world through monthly bills, the grind to hit targets at work, and all those personal struggles you just can't shake. Like, how is a Wall Street broker supposed to stay chill when the market is swinging wildly and his whole livelihood is riding on it? He knows it's an illusion, but he's still grinding every single day. So, we can't really detach ourselves from these worldly ties because modern life won't let us. Even if we're aware and "awake," it doesn't seem to be enough...

Or maybe... does that mean living a double life? Or just living in a constant split? We find peace once we get home, but at the office, we're stressed over things we know are illusions—chasing stuff like winning a big corporate negotiation. If we don't live two separate lives, then trying to merge them just leaves us in this internal rift. We end up stressing over "non-existent" things, which is absurd, but we do it because those things matter—like making sure our kids can go to a good college...

But if we're living on two different levels... how much peace can we actually find?

amberotter82 said:Exactly. But I wonder how much of that is actually doable since we aren't living in some remote cabin in the middle of the Rockies, totally surrendered to nature. We're constantly feeling the hits from the real world through monthly bills, the grind to hit targets at work, and all those personal struggles you just can't shake. Like, how is a Wall Street broker supposed to stay chill when the market is swinging wildly and his whole livelihood is riding on it? He knows it's an illusion, but he's still grinding every single day. So, we can't really detach ourselves from these worldly ties because modern life won't let us. Even if we're aware and "awake," it doesn't seem to be enough...

Or maybe... does that mean living a double life? Or just living in a constant split? We find peace once we get home, but at the office, we're stressed over things we know are illusions—chasing stuff like winning a big corporate negotiation. If we don't live two separate lives, then trying to merge them just leaves us in this internal rift. We end up stressing over "non-existent" things, which is absurd, but we do it because those things matter—like making sure our kids can go to a good college...

But if we're living on two different levels... how much peace can we actually find?

A broker at a firm like Goldman Sachs can only control what's within his reach. He relies on scientific heuristic algorithms, his own experience, advice from senior partners, and gut instinct. He does The Greatest [IM]Possible based on his calculations. Of course, those math models involve risk, and he has to decide his level of exposure... All of that directly impacts his Peace.

The whole idea is to build a mental simulation of the situation... If things go south and he starts losing serious cash, he has to instantly shift gears into a new level of analysis, synthesizing real-time data on the fly. At the end of the day, if he loses everything—we're talking millions of dollars—the ultimate consequence is that he’s still breathing, but he knows damn well he's going to lose his job...

The real kicker is how losing that job and being unable to find work in his field will hit his personal Peace... But if he hasn't endured massive, catastrophic failures in his Past and learned logical lessons backed by intuition... His inner Peace is going to be seriously compromised.

The bottom line: depending on your DNA, your psychological makeup, and your life experience, that personal Peace can be shattered. 🙄

amberotter82 said:Exactly. But I wonder how much of that is actually doable since we aren't living in some remote cabin in the middle of the Rockies, totally surrendered to nature. We're constantly feeling the hits from the real world through monthly bills, the grind to hit targets at work, and all those personal struggles you just can't shake. Like, how is a Wall Street broker supposed to stay chill when the market is swinging wildly and his whole livelihood is riding on it? He knows it's an illusion, but he's still grinding every single day. So, we can't really detach ourselves from these worldly ties because modern life won't let us. Even if we're aware and "awake," it doesn't seem to be enough...

Or maybe... does that mean living a double life? Or just living in a constant split? We find peace once we get home, but at the office, we're stressed over things we know are illusions—chasing stuff like winning a big corporate negotiation. If we don't live two separate lives, then trying to merge them just leaves us in this internal rift. We end up stressing over "non-existent" things, which is absurd, but we do it because those things matter—like making sure our kids can go to a good college...

But if we're living on two different levels... how much peace can we actually find?

I don't think that's the best example. There are plenty of people (honestly, most people) who deal with major friction right inside their own homes. Depending on how deeply they are caught up in that discord, their Peace can be totally wrecked.

I think this second cause—unrest within one's own home—is the main reason why the vast majority of people can't find their unique path toward Peace.

There's an old saying for a reason: "bonus prize, Peace in the House." The emphasis isn't on the physical stuff, but on the intellect and emotions. 😍

Ronald Rogers27

Ronald Rogers27 said:A broker at a firm like Goldman Sachs can only control what's within his reach. He relies on scientific heuristic algorithms, his own experience, advice from senior partners, and gut instinct. He does The Greatest [IM]Possible based on his calculations. Of course, those math models involve risk, and he has to decide his level of exposure... All of that directly impacts his Peace.

The whole idea is to build a mental simulation of the situation... If things go south and he starts losing serious cash, he has to instantly shift gears into a new level of analysis, synthesizing real-time data on the fly. At the end of the day, if he loses everything—we're talking millions of dollars—the ultimate consequence is that he’s still breathing, but he knows damn well he's going to lose his job...

The real kicker is how losing that job and being unable to find work in his field will hit his personal Peace... But if he hasn't endured massive, catastrophic failures in his Past and learned logical lessons backed by intuition... His inner Peace is going to be seriously compromised.

The bottom line: depending on your DNA, your psychological makeup, and your life experience, that personal Peace can be shattered. 🙄

I don't think that's the best example. There are plenty of people (honestly, most people) who deal with major friction right inside their own homes. Depending on how deeply they are caught up in that discord, their Peace can be totally wrecked.

I think this second cause—unrest within one's own home—is the main reason why the vast majority of people can't find their unique path toward Peace.

There's an old saying for a reason: "bonus prize, Peace in the House." The emphasis isn't on the physical stuff, but on the intellect and emotions. 😍

Ronald Rogers27

The real question is whether they can actually rise above the chaos when it hits. Regardless of whether they succeed or fail, the sheer process of double-checking their math—trying to see if they actually read the market right—is filled with unrest, and here's why... It's because you can't fully live with the awareness that the modern world is an illusion while trying to transcend it. If you're getting worked up, you're still trapped in the grind of this world; you haven't truly embraced the concept. Which makes me wonder if we can even perceive the world as an illusion without isolating ourselves. But then again, if isolation is the only way to get there, how much of living that way is just self-deception? We'd just be dodging all the actual challenges in life...

Ronald Rogers27 said:A broker at a firm like Goldman Sachs can only control what's within his reach. He relies on scientific heuristic algorithms, his own experience, advice from senior partners, and gut instinct. He does The Greatest [IM]Possible based on his calculations. Of course, those math models involve risk, and he has to decide his level of exposure... All of that directly impacts his Peace.

The whole idea is to build a mental simulation of the situation... If things go south and he starts losing serious cash, he has to instantly shift gears into a new level of analysis, synthesizing real-time data on the fly. At the end of the day, if he loses everything—we're talking millions of dollars—the ultimate consequence is that he’s still breathing, but he knows damn well he's going to lose his job...

The real kicker is how losing that job and being unable to find work in his field will hit his personal Peace... But if he hasn't endured massive, catastrophic failures in his Past and learned logical lessons backed by intuition... His inner Peace is going to be seriously compromised.

The bottom line: depending on your DNA, your psychological makeup, and your life experience, that personal Peace can be shattered. 🙄

I don't think that's the best example. There are plenty of people (honestly, most people) who deal with major friction right inside their own homes. Depending on how deeply they are caught up in that discord, their Peace can be totally wrecked.

I think this second cause—unrest within one's own home—is the main reason why the vast majority of people can't find their unique path toward Peace.

There's an old saying for a reason: "bonus prize, Peace in the House." The emphasis isn't on the physical stuff, but on the intellect and emotions. 😍

Ronald Rogers27

If you believe that you need to go through total disasters to keep your sanity and grow intellectually (which, again, depends on genes and personality), then I have to ask: how much of Peace is actually a result of higher consciousness, and how much is just emotional numbness where Peace isn't even reachable at those heights anymore?

Ronald Rogers27 said:A broker at a firm like Goldman Sachs can only control what's within his reach. He relies on scientific heuristic algorithms, his own experience, advice from senior partners, and gut instinct. He does The Greatest [IM]Possible based on his calculations. Of course, those math models involve risk, and he has to decide his level of exposure... All of that directly impacts his Peace.

The whole idea is to build a mental simulation of the situation... If things go south and he starts losing serious cash, he has to instantly shift gears into a new level of analysis, synthesizing real-time data on the fly. At the end of the day, if he loses everything—we're talking millions of dollars—the ultimate consequence is that he’s still breathing, but he knows damn well he's going to lose his job...

The real kicker is how losing that job and being unable to find work in his field will hit his personal Peace... But if he hasn't endured massive, catastrophic failures in his Past and learned logical lessons backed by intuition... His inner Peace is going to be seriously compromised.

The bottom line: depending on your DNA, your psychological makeup, and your life experience, that personal Peace can be shattered. 🙄

I don't think that's the best example. There are plenty of people (honestly, most people) who deal with major friction right inside their own homes. Depending on how deeply they are caught up in that discord, their Peace can be totally wrecked.

I think this second cause—unrest within one's own home—is the main reason why the vast majority of people can't find their unique path toward Peace.

There's an old saying for a reason: "bonus prize, Peace in the House." The emphasis isn't on the physical stuff, but on the intellect and emotions. 😍

Ronald Rogers27

I get where you're coming from regarding emotional attachment being a huge hurdle. But I wouldn't call it the main reason people can't reach Peace. I think the bigger issue is our inability to detach from our EGO and our senses. You know, those voices telling us: yeah, this block is definitely real, I can see its shape and color, I can feel those sharp edges in my hand, I can smell the wood it's made of... it exists.

amberotter82 said:The real question is whether they can actually rise above the chaos when it hits. Regardless of whether they succeed or fail, the sheer process of double-checking their math—trying to see if they actually read the market right—is filled with unrest, and here's why... It's because you can't fully live with the awareness that the modern world is an illusion while trying to transcend it. If you're getting worked up, you're still trapped in the grind of this world; you haven't truly embraced the concept. Which makes me wonder if we can even perceive the world as an illusion without isolating ourselves. But then again, if isolation is the only way to get there, how much of living that way is just self-deception? We'd just be dodging all the actual challenges in life...

If you believe that you need to go through total disasters to keep your sanity and grow intellectually (which, again, depends on genes and personality), then I have to ask: how much of Peace is actually a result of higher consciousness, and how much is just emotional numbness where Peace isn't even reachable at those heights anymore?

I get where you're coming from regarding emotional attachment being a huge hurdle. But I wouldn't call it the main reason people can't reach Peace. I think the bigger issue is our inability to detach from our EGO and our senses. You know, those voices telling us: yeah, this block is definitely real, I can see its shape and color, I can feel those sharp edges in my hand, I can smell the wood it's made of... it exists.

I think it’s this. It isn’t about becoming numb or losing your edge. It’s actually about finally getting how the world works and how people truly interact. That learning curve? It never really ends. But there’s definitely a threshold. Once you hit it, everything shifts. You start seeing things from a completely different perspective. 👍

amberotter82 said:The real question is whether they can actually rise above the chaos when it hits. Regardless of whether they succeed or fail, the sheer process of double-checking their math—trying to see if they actually read the market right—is filled with unrest, and here's why... It's because you can't fully live with the awareness that the modern world is an illusion while trying to transcend it. If you're getting worked up, you're still trapped in the grind of this world; you haven't truly embraced the concept. Which makes me wonder if we can even perceive the world as an illusion without isolating ourselves. But then again, if isolation is the only way to get there, how much of living that way is just self-deception? We'd just be dodging all the actual challenges in life...

If you believe that you need to go through total disasters to keep your sanity and grow intellectually (which, again, depends on genes and personality), then I have to ask: how much of Peace is actually a result of higher consciousness, and how much is just emotional numbness where Peace isn't even reachable at those heights anymore?

I get where you're coming from regarding emotional attachment being a huge hurdle. But I wouldn't call it the main reason people can't reach Peace. I think the bigger issue is our inability to detach from our EGO and our senses. You know, those voices telling us: yeah, this block is definitely real, I can see its shape and color, I can feel those sharp edges in my hand, I can smell the wood it's made of... it exists.

You can't really escape your EGO. It’s hardwired into us. Honestly, I think that EGO actually protects us from things that could kill us—it keeps us from checking out early over something stupid while we're trying to figure life out. But you can definitely learn to manage how much that EGO runs the show. If you can get a handle on those internal impulses, you can finally reach a state where your self and Peace actually live in harmony. 😬

Where did that thread about legal adulthood starting from conception go? That is the question. 🤷

Ronald Rogers27

Ronald Rogers27 said:Permanent happiness doesn't exist. What actually exists is peace... lasting peace. Very few people ever find it while they're alive, but everyone finds it eventually when they die.

Ronald Rogers27

That’s exactly it—it happens in death. I mean, while you're actually living your life, what good is constant peace? How can you even recognize what peace feels like if you don't have any restlessness to compare it to? Without the chaos, the stillness loses its meaning.

How are you supposed to find lasting peace when you're living such a temporary existence? How can you ever grasp anything permanent if you yourself aren't? Honestly, just having the concept of "forever" in your head is basically the absolute limit of what the rational mind can handle. But trying to actually realize it? That's impossible. Using logic to chase permanence is just chasing an illusion... and because you're stuck using that flawed reasoning, all you get is a fake version of stability. You’ll never actually reach the real thing because you can't even be sure it exists in the first place. It's pretty simple, really.🙂

.. alright, so how did that illusion even get created? .. what kind of material was it actually made from..?

Reasoning basically takes everything we pick up through our senses and those built-in mental frameworks—our perceptions and thoughts—and starts connecting the dots. It takes concepts, weighs them against each other, finds the relationship between them, and draws a conclusion. That’s how reason operates. But then you have the intellect, which sits above mere reasoning. It tries to do the exact same thing—to explain things like God or true, lasting peace—but it hits a wall. It can't, because it's dealing with ideal ideas. It keeps trying to reach a final conclusion, but it simply lacks the capacity to get there... You could say, following Tom's logic, that the idea of God or perfection comes from concluding based on the inherent limitations of being, which eventually leads you toward something perfect.

swiftwolf202 said:Reasoning basically takes everything we pick up through our senses and those built-in mental frameworks—our perceptions and thoughts—and starts connecting the dots. It takes concepts, weighs them against each other, finds the relationship between them, and draws a conclusion. That’s how reason operates. But then you have the intellect, which sits above mere reasoning. It tries to do the exact same thing—to explain things like God or true, lasting peace—but it hits a wall. It can't, because it's dealing with ideal ideas. It keeps trying to reach a final conclusion, but it simply lacks the capacity to get there... You could say, following Tom's logic, that the idea of God or perfection comes from concluding based on the inherent limitations of being, which eventually leads you toward something perfect.

Can you walk me through what's highlighted in red here? 😬

Ronald Rogers27

stands for = focuses on the ideal

.. what does "ideal" actually look like? ..

... how did they actually come to be?

.. how do desires even begin? ..

.. and God .. ? .. this longing for paradise .. ?

... do animals actually have .. ?