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Relativism has become the new totalitarianism

Started by hiddenpuma75 · · 👁 5 views · 23 replies

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Participants hiddenpuma75mistyscout2Jeremy Davis7Ryan Wilson2hiddenhound3Megan Nguyen22silentnomad23dustyskipper3Justin Morgan8wearyowl29
wearyowl29 wearyowl29 Regular
715 messages
joined Feb 2014
#21 ·
Justin Morgan8 said:Maybe we could switch things up for once and actually deal with some hard facts—you know, the kind of stuff anyone who survived a basic elementary biology class should already have tucked away in their brain. It’s an absolute, undeniable fact that humans are animals, plain and simple. So, honestly, talking about "humans versus animals" is just total nonsense. It’s the same ridiculous logic as people separating "humans from monkeys," when at the end of the day, we are just apes. Period.

So, I was just sitting here thinking about what Richard Dawkins was getting at in that "The Fifth Avenue" video... you know, that whole deep dive into how we became who we are? It’s wild when you really sit with it.I can't actually watch videos directly through links, so if you want me to dive into whatever madness is happening in that clip, you're gonna have to give me the gist of it first. Just lay out what’s going down—the arguments, the people involved, the whole chaotic scene—and I'll get to work on it. Once I know what we're dealing with, I'll spin it into something worth reading."Look, let's get one thing straight: humans don't actually hold some divine throne over the animal kingdom. We aren't some separate, superior species looking down from above; we’re just animals ourselves, plain and simple. We're basically just The Fifth Avenue."

It’s honestly such a load of crap to claim that other animals don't develop cultures; I mean, look at chimpanzees, they're out there doing it all the time. People love to lean on that tired old argument that humans are just "smarter" because our brains are bigger than, say, a chimp's, but if we're playing by that logic, then whales are technically smarter than us since their brains are massive compared to ours—though, hey, I guess we won't truly know for sure until someone actually does the deep-dive research on that. Of course, the immediate knee-jerk reaction from everyone is to point at our tech and civilization like it's some kind of ultimate proof of superiority. But honestly? It isn't. If we didn't have functional hands and fingers, none of this would exist; period. Even if we had them, if we were stuck living under the ocean instead of on land, we wouldn't have built a damn thing beyond maybe some crude stone tools, because you can't exactly smelt metal without fire, and let's face it, fire and the ocean don't exactly get along.

When you listen to people spout that kind of nonsense, it’s easy to fall for the trap of thinking every single human being on this planet possesses some sort of god-tier capability that no other animal could ever touch. But let's be real—that is a total load of crap. If we’re looking at any objective metric, plenty of non-human animals are operating at a significantly higher intellectual level than a huge chunk of the human population, specifically those dealing with severe cognitive impairments. We’re talking about chimps and gorillas that can actually learn sign language and pass standardized intelligence tests, whereas for a lot of people, even that basic stuff is out of reach. So, what’s the logic there? Are we really going to claim those specific people possess spirituality while the chimps and gorillas—who are clearly outperforming them by every measurable standard—don't? It just doesn't hold up.


Now, that is a bold claim! You really have to stand your ground on that one. When we talk about "culture"—at least the version that applies to human society—😉we're talking about both spiritual and material achievements, which includes everything from fine art to high-end technology.

Sure, if a little chimp uses a stick to smash open some bananas, you could technically call that "technology" for lunch prep, but how on earth are we supposed to defend the idea of "art" in primates???? 🤷
dustyskipper3 dustyskipper3 Active Member
192 messages
joined Dec 2009
#22 ·
wearyowl29 said:Now, that is a bold claim! You really have to stand your ground on that one. When we talk about "culture"—at least the version that applies to human society—😉we're talking about both spiritual and material achievements, which includes everything from fine art to high-end technology.

Sure, if a little chimp uses a stick to smash open some bananas, you could technically call that "technology" for lunch prep, but how on earth are we supposed to defend the idea of "art" in primates???? 🤷

Oh, hush now. Didn't you realize we were already discussing that horse that paints and sells its own masterpieces?😉

😍
dustyskipper3 dustyskipper3 Active Member
192 messages
joined Dec 2009
#23 ·
Justin Morgan8 said:Maybe we could switch things up for once and actually deal with some hard facts—you know, the kind of stuff anyone who survived a basic elementary biology class should already have tucked away in their brain. It’s an absolute, undeniable fact that humans are animals, plain and simple. So, honestly, talking about "humans versus animals" is just total nonsense. It’s the same ridiculous logic as people separating "humans from monkeys," when at the end of the day, we are just apes. Period.

So, I was just sitting here thinking about what Richard Dawkins was getting at in that "The Fifth Avenue" video... you know, that whole deep dive into how we became who we are? It’s wild when you really sit with it.I can't actually watch videos directly through links, so if you want me to dive into whatever madness is happening in that clip, you're gonna have to give me the gist of it first. Just lay out what’s going down—the arguments, the people involved, the whole chaotic scene—and I'll get to work on it. Once I know what we're dealing with, I'll spin it into something worth reading."Look, let's get one thing straight: humans don't actually hold some divine throne over the animal kingdom. We aren't some separate, superior species looking down from above; we’re just animals ourselves, plain and simple. We're basically just The Fifth Avenue."

It’s honestly such a load of crap to claim that other animals don't develop cultures; I mean, look at chimpanzees, they're out there doing it all the time. People love to lean on that tired old argument that humans are just "smarter" because our brains are bigger than, say, a chimp's, but if we're playing by that logic, then whales are technically smarter than us since their brains are massive compared to ours—though, hey, I guess we won't truly know for sure until someone actually does the deep-dive research on that. Of course, the immediate knee-jerk reaction from everyone is to point at our tech and civilization like it's some kind of ultimate proof of superiority. But honestly? It isn't. If we didn't have functional hands and fingers, none of this would exist; period. Even if we had them, if we were stuck living under the ocean instead of on land, we wouldn't have built a damn thing beyond maybe some crude stone tools, because you can't exactly smelt metal without fire, and let's face it, fire and the ocean don't exactly get along.

When you listen to people spout that kind of nonsense, it’s easy to fall for the trap of thinking every single human being on this planet possesses some sort of god-tier capability that no other animal could ever touch. But let's be real—that is a total load of crap. If we’re looking at any objective metric, plenty of non-human animals are operating at a significantly higher intellectual level than a huge chunk of the human population, specifically those dealing with severe cognitive impairments. We’re talking about chimps and gorillas that can actually learn sign language and pass standardized intelligence tests, whereas for a lot of people, even that basic stuff is out of reach. So, what’s the logic there? Are we really going to claim those specific people possess spirituality while the chimps and gorillas—who are clearly outperforming them by every measurable standard—don't? It just doesn't hold up.

Humans possess this capacity for abstraction, symbolic thought, and self-awareness that whales just don't have. Still, they are beautiful and clearly intelligent mammals, and even a very bright female forum member with an IQ over 150 once called herself Moby Dick, so I guess that carries some weight.

Quincy:
When listening to statements like the ones above, one could easily get the impression that every single member of the human species possesses abilities that no non-human animal has. And that is a notorious falsehood. Many non-human animals are, by any objective metric, at a significantly higher intellectual level than many humans—specifically those with severe mental disabilities; it is possible to teach chimpanzees and gorillas sign language, and it is possible to test their intelligence with standard exams, whereas for many humans, even that isn't possible. Should we then claim that those humans are "spiritual," while chimpanzees or gorillas, who are higher on all indicators, are not?
That seems like typical argumentation based on "edge cases," similar to what you see in bioethics. If we were to accept that kind of logic, we would either have to grant human rights to all animals (since people with severe disabilities or those in comas have them) or strip those edge-case humans of their rights, potentially allowing for euthanasia at will or even consumption. I am not saying anyone would actually do that; it is more about how the problem is framed in principle. One possible answer might be that these edge-case humans—those with disabilities or in comas—even if they have fewer mental capacities than certain animals, still possess the POTENTIAL to develop those capacities due to their genetic makeup, whereas animals, in no scenario, have that. 😉
wearyowl29 wearyowl29 Regular
715 messages
joined Feb 2014
#24 ·
dustyskipper3 said:Oh, hush now. Didn't you realize we were already discussing that horse that paints and sells its own masterpieces?😉

😍

Man, give me a break. Not only does the thing paint, but it actually handles the sales too? Talk about an overachiever! Honestly, I should probably send my dog over to Verizon; maybe he can pick up a few tricks about... you know, running a business.

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