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Don't look back!

Started by hiddenhound3 · · 👁 4 views · 17 replies

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Participants hiddenhound3dustyskipper3wearyowl29Jeremy Alvarez5casualmaker13frozennomad0briskmason43Jeremy Davis7Morgan Sullivan12rustymaker5
hiddenhound3 hiddenhound3 RegularOP
309 messages
joined Feb 2018
#1 ·
The act of looking back occupies a profoundly significant position within mythologies across the globe. In the Hebrew tradition, Lot's wife turned into a pillar of salt simply by glancing backward; in Greek lore, Orpheus condemned Eurydice to an eternal residence in Hades with a single, fatal look; and according to legend, the final Milarepin teacher was an old man who refused to ever turn his head.

What is the true significance of looking back?
dustyskipper3 dustyskipper3 Active Member
192 messages
joined Dec 2009
#2 ·
It’s tied back to those old myths about descending into the underworld and the later Orphic legends—ideas involving the reincarnation of souls and the whole concept of metempsychosis.

I suppose that "turning back" might symbolize a psychological process of detachment, or what we call splitting (Spaltung). It's that move toward abstract thought where the subject separates itself from the object—from reality itself—which ends up being a sort of punishment, an isolation from that very reality (the object of desire). In a way, it feels like a condemnation of pure reason, whereas the Orpheus myth serves as a tribute to mystical trust. His lyre represents this ability to master the world through something beyond mere intellect, maintaining unity with everything around him and even overcoming death itself.

In patients dealing with schizophrenia, this "splitting" eventually manifests as a "bronze wall" or an "icy wall" standing between them and everyone else. Faces start looking like they were "cut out of cardboard," people look like puppets, and trees or bushes seem just like flat cardboard cutouts. Objects, sounds, and living beings all feel "sliced apart." It makes me think of Lot's wife turning into a pillar of salt, I guess. It's as if people whose illness is rooted in this analytical separation of self from others eventually end up seeing everyone else as inanimate objects—just pillars of salt. You see this kind of splitting in the Rorschach test too, specifically in Card III, where one should see waiters or similar figures, but instead, the subject sees things in a fractured way—just a head, a neck, some hands—which eventually leads into what is called the "sword complex."

On the other hand, the descent—like when Orpheus goes down into Hades—belongs to a different set of symbols, more feminine ones. This stands in contrast to the schizomorphic types, who are associated with "symbols of ascent" and heroic themes. That’s why Plato accuses Orpheus of having "insufficient masculinity"; he didn't simply agree to die to be reunited with his beloved, but instead descends, "like a woman," trying to "trick the gods" to pull her back into the light. So, his loss of his beloved Eurydice is essentially the gods' revenge. It fits perfectly into the symbolism of the "cheated trickster," or the "bound binder," the "robbed thief," and so on. We see similar logic in American proverbs like "what goes around comes around" or "he who digs a pit for others falls into it himself." It really deals with the symbolism of the womb, libido, and a sort of double negation—a euphemism where the negative becomes positive. The descent becomes a path toward the Absolute, while the ascent actually destroys the Absolute. For instance, you could say Jesus' death on the cross becomes the very means to triumph over death itself and the evil that death brings.

Turning back would signify a lack of faith. It would be like someone being crucified and suddenly deciding the whole mission is pointless, choosing to save their own life instead of saving the world.
hiddenhound3 hiddenhound3 RegularOP
309 messages
joined Feb 2018
#3 ·
dustyskipper3 said:It’s tied back to those old myths about descending into the underworld and the later Orphic legends—ideas involving the reincarnation of souls and the whole concept of metempsychosis.

I suppose that "turning back" might symbolize a psychological process of detachment, or what we call splitting (Spaltung). It's that move toward abstract thought where the subject separates itself from the object—from reality itself—which ends up being a sort of punishment, an isolation from that very reality (the object of desire). In a way, it feels like a condemnation of pure reason, whereas the Orpheus myth serves as a tribute to mystical trust. His lyre represents this ability to master the world through something beyond mere intellect, maintaining unity with everything around him and even overcoming death itself.

In patients dealing with schizophrenia, this "splitting" eventually manifests as a "bronze wall" or an "icy wall" standing between them and everyone else. Faces start looking like they were "cut out of cardboard," people look like puppets, and trees or bushes seem just like flat cardboard cutouts. Objects, sounds, and living beings all feel "sliced apart." It makes me think of Lot's wife turning into a pillar of salt, I guess. It's as if people whose illness is rooted in this analytical separation of self from others eventually end up seeing everyone else as inanimate objects—just pillars of salt. You see this kind of splitting in the Rorschach test too, specifically in Card III, where one should see waiters or similar figures, but instead, the subject sees things in a fractured way—just a head, a neck, some hands—which eventually leads into what is called the "sword complex."

On the other hand, the descent—like when Orpheus goes down into Hades—belongs to a different set of symbols, more feminine ones. This stands in contrast to the schizomorphic types, who are associated with "symbols of ascent" and heroic themes. That’s why Plato accuses Orpheus of having "insufficient masculinity"; he didn't simply agree to die to be reunited with his beloved, but instead descends, "like a woman," trying to "trick the gods" to pull her back into the light. So, his loss of his beloved Eurydice is essentially the gods' revenge. It fits perfectly into the symbolism of the "cheated trickster," or the "bound binder," the "robbed thief," and so on. We see similar logic in American proverbs like "what goes around comes around" or "he who digs a pit for others falls into it himself." It really deals with the symbolism of the womb, libido, and a sort of double negation—a euphemism where the negative becomes positive. The descent becomes a path toward the Absolute, while the ascent actually destroys the Absolute. For instance, you could say Jesus' death on the cross becomes the very means to triumph over death itself and the evil that death brings.

Turning back would signify a lack of faith. It would be like someone being crucified and suddenly deciding the whole mission is pointless, choosing to save their own life instead of saving the world.

Upon further reading, I discovered that salt is actually the seasoning of life, suggesting that being transformed into a pillar of salt carries a much deeper symbolic weight than it appears on the surface. Yahweh could have just as easily turned her into a pillar of stone, yet he chose salt; perhaps because she wasn't made of stone, she was SALT—she was comprised entirely of a longing for a life she should never have looked back upon, a life that was over-seasoned and over-spiced by desire. I sometimes draw a parallel here to people who have a particular craving for highly seasoned, salty, and spicy foods.
That said, the question remains: why does looking back "kill"?
wearyowl29 wearyowl29 Regular
715 messages
joined Feb 2014
#4 ·
Maybe looking back is just our way of auditing the ledger of everything we've accomplished—everything left in our wake.
For some, that realization can feel like a total sucker punch, while for others, it’s the exact spark needed to kick things into high gear...😲
Jeremy Alvarez5 Jeremy Alvarez5 Active Member
165 messages
joined Aug 2010
#5 ·
So, what does "hitting" even mean here? Like, is someone actually cracking walnuts, or are we talking about someone getting clobbered in the head? I guess it depends on how you look at it, maybe.

So, I was thinking about this idea of forcing all these different things under one single umbrella just to make them easier to generalize... I don't know. Maybe there’s some kind of common thread running through these examples that I'm just missing, or maybe there really isn't one at all. Aside from the act of grouping them together, that is. I guess it's hard to say for sure without looking closer.

When it comes to this whole biblical thing, I guess my take is that the whole point was really about blind obedience to God. It feels like the people acting as His representatives just used that idea to justify their own power—basically making things absurd just so they could keep control. And honestly? Stone lasts forever, but salt just washes away so fast. Plus, there are parts of the story where salt is everywhere, which kind of makes it feel pretty meaningless at that point.

It looks like even Jesus was inspired by that kind of "inappropriate" behavior: "Luke 9:62, Jesus tells him..."I guess you could say that anyone who puts their hand to the plow and keeps looking back over their shoulder just isn't cut out for the Kingdom of God. It’s like, if you can't stay focused on the road ahead, maybe you aren't meant for the journey, I suppose."

To me, taking a step back to really look at things takes actual guts. It’s about having the courage to truly know—to just be there and actually listen to both sides of the story. I guess the alternative, at least from what I can tell, is just manufacturing this whole atmosphere of paranoia and fear, basically feeding into the psychosis that already had someone feeling totally overwhelmed.
casualmaker13 casualmaker13 Active Member
84 messages
joined Dec 2007
#6 ·
"Don't look back, son, just take the cash and run,"
Rundek might say in one of his songs, mostly because if you do turn around, someone might actually catch you.
dustyskipper3 dustyskipper3 Active Member
192 messages
joined Dec 2009
#7 ·
I suppose this kind of thing is especially popular in those transition economies where privatization was considered a "success," much like what we saw here in the States or over in places like Germany. That’s probably why there is such a growing fascination over there with that old Roman legal principle, *lex retro non agit*. 😁
frozennomad0 frozennomad0 Newcomer
7 messages
joined Jan 2010
#8 ·
Greetings 👋

"Is it even possible to grasp anything that isn't some form of illusion? Once an illusion finally crumbles, you mustn't dare look back at it, lest you find yourself turned into a pillar of salt."

-Kafka
briskmason43 briskmason43 Newcomer
2 messages
joined Nov 2009
#9 ·
"Quote:"
I'm not sure what you mean by "florine." If you're looking for a specific discussion or a response to a previous point, please clarify. The user says:
The concept of looking back holds a heavy significance in mythologies worldwide. In the Hebrew tradition, Lot's wife looked back and was transformed into a pillar of salt. In Greek myth, Orpheus's single glance condemned Eurydice to remain in Hades forever. Even in local legend, the last Milarepin teacher was said to be an old man who never once looked behind him.

What does "looking back" actually mean?
Indecision, hesitation—it feels like some dark force pulling you backward. Even with the best intentions, it’s a weakness we can't seem to control. It is a total inability to resist, leaving you completely stuck when you should be breaking through.
Every time we look back, we take a step backward. One could go on with all the negatives, but honestly, the focus should remain on what lies ahead—because the future is positive, whereas the past is just something we’ve left behind.
Makes sense, doesn't it?
What Jeremy Alvarez5 was getting at is this: anyone who puts their hand to the plow but keeps looking back over their shoulder ends up creating crooked furrows. It wastes energy, it’s inefficient, and frankly, it isn't pleasing to God—making them unfit for the Kingdom. That was the gist of it.
Summary:
An indecisive man...
To answer the question regarding what "revisiting" actually entails... It’s essentially indecision, isn't it?

Plus... Proverbs 4:25. ☕
Jeremy Davis7 Jeremy Davis7 Active Member
55 messages
joined Oct 2007
#10 ·
Sometimes it wouldn't hurt to just stop for a second, look back, and give a hand to the people who are struggling to keep up... you know, actually reach out instead of just sprinting toward some finish line we think we're hitting so fast.
The smart guys might find themselves staring at a locked door... once they finally get "there."
😉
Morgan Sullivan12 Morgan Sullivan12 Newcomer
4 messages
joined Nov 2009
#11 ·
Jeremy Davis7 said:Sometimes it wouldn't hurt to just stop for a second, look back, and give a hand to the people who are struggling to keep up... you know, actually reach out instead of just sprinting toward some finish line we think we're hitting so fast.
The smart guys might find themselves staring at a locked door... once they finally get "there."
😉

Especially if you're only helping because you want something out of it. That'll open doors for you, too.
Jeremy Davis7 Jeremy Davis7 Active Member
55 messages
joined Oct 2007
#12 ·
I wasn't exactly running the numbers on this one.

If you try to factor her into the equation... you aren't going to get the outcome you're looking for.

Some of the greatest thinkers of our era have said it before: "...you don't enter paradise with a calculator in your hand."
Morgan Sullivan12 Morgan Sullivan12 Newcomer
4 messages
joined Nov 2009
#13 ·
Jeremy Davis7 said:Sometimes it wouldn't hurt to just stop for a second, look back, and give a hand to the people who are struggling to keep up... you know, actually reach out instead of just sprinting toward some finish line we think we're hitting so fast.
The smart guys might find themselves staring at a locked door... once they finally get "there."
😉

Wait, what?
Is this some kind of reason to be a good person??
I bet you didn't mean it like that, you probably just let it slip by accident...
Classic manipulation—promising a reward, then throwing eternal hell into the mix.
That's just an army full of cowards and mercenaries...
rustymaker5 rustymaker5 Regular
352 messages
joined Mar 2008
#14 ·
I see the whole situation with the lotov wife as this intense surge of curiosity, honestly—like she was trying to run a little "test" on God’s power, showing a certain level of defiance toward those commands coming from "above."
Don't you dare look back, don't you question things, just go where I tell you to go!
There isn't any other option, because if you do, I will punish you.

It’s just like always, isn't it? You can always count on there being people who feel the need to second-guess everything, which is exactly why they wanted to scare them old folks by threatening them with catastrophic consequences... It's as if they're saying only the ones who follow orders blindly get to move forward. 🤷
Morgan Sullivan12 Morgan Sullivan12 Newcomer
4 messages
joined Nov 2009
#15 ·
rustymaker5 said:I see the whole situation with the lotov wife as this intense surge of curiosity, honestly—like she was trying to run a little "test" on God’s power, showing a certain level of defiance toward those commands coming from "above."
Don't you dare look back, don't you question things, just go where I tell you to go!
There isn't any other option, because if you do, I will punish you.

It’s just like always, isn't it? You can always count on there being people who feel the need to second-guess everything, which is exactly why they wanted to scare them old folks by threatening them with catastrophic consequences... It's as if they're saying only the ones who follow orders blindly get to move forward. 🤷

Totally agree.
And honestly, whoever was described in that story with Lot wasn't even acting like God...
wearyowl29 wearyowl29 Regular
715 messages
joined Feb 2014
#16 ·
Jeremy Davis7 said:Sometimes it wouldn't hurt to just stop for a second, look back, and give a hand to the people who are struggling to keep up... you know, actually reach out instead of just sprinting toward some finish line we think we're hitting so fast.
The smart guys might find themselves staring at a locked door... once they finally get "there."
😉

Man, you’re living in an old black-and-white war movie! Everything has to be a group effort or nothing counts, right?

I’m telling you, when it comes to building your own inner spirituality, that collective mindset doesn't really hold water. Usually, all that "group worship" stuff is just commercialized nonsense pushed by manipulative organizations that survive solely on people's devotion.

Sure, you can lend a hand on a hiking trail or out on the road, but there are certain paths a person simply has to walk alone. It's how life teaches you things—how your own experience shapes you —so sometimes, help isn't even wanted.

By the way, "Don't Look Back, Son!" is actually a fantastic movie. It’s such a heavy hitter, just like "mama Juanita."
briskmason43 briskmason43 Newcomer
2 messages
joined Nov 2009
#17 ·
rustymaker5 said:I see the whole situation with the lotov wife as this intense surge of curiosity, honestly—like she was trying to run a little "test" on God’s power, showing a certain level of defiance toward those commands coming from "above."
Don't you dare look back, don't you question things, just go where I tell you to go!
There isn't any other option, because if you do, I will punish you.

It’s just like always, isn't it? You can always count on there being people who feel the need to second-guess everything, which is exactly why they wanted to scare them old folks by threatening them with catastrophic consequences... It's as if they're saying only the ones who follow orders blindly get to move forward. 🤷

What made Lot and his daughter any better than his wife, then?

In any case, it seems there will always be people who question things, so the intent was clearly to intimidate them with dire consequences. The message being: only the obedient move forward. 🤷

Niko isn't trying to intimidate anyone; life simply has its own set of rules. Some respect them, some don't, and everyone acts on their own free will. God said don't steal, the law accepted that, and if you don't steal, you'll be fine—but if you do, well, you're done. Right?
It's your choice; no one is threatening you...
But there are still consequences.
Morgan Sullivan12 Morgan Sullivan12 Newcomer
4 messages
joined Nov 2009
#18 ·
briskmason43 said:What made Lot and his daughter any better than his wife, then?

In any case, it seems there will always be people who question things, so the intent was clearly to intimidate them with dire consequences. The message being: only the obedient move forward. 🤷

Niko isn't trying to intimidate anyone; life simply has its own set of rules. Some respect them, some don't, and everyone acts on their own free will. God said don't steal, the law accepted that, and if you don't steal, you'll be fine—but if you do, well, you're done. Right?
It's your choice; no one is threatening you...
But there are still consequences.

God didn't say anything because God never actually spoke to people.
Just look at John 5.

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