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The Financial System and Money Supply

Started by Maria Thomas48 · · 👁 23 views · 619 replies

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Participants Maria Thomas48mistystag0Gregory Williams7Andrew Booth29Nicole Collins13William Richardson2Amanda Allen4Douglas Reed3neonhound10Jerry Williams41David Williams7Bradley Walker88wearysailor71Robert Vaughn10goldenwolf13Thomas Morales13brightlynx11casuallynx8Larry Collins19Matthew Patel12crimsonfalcon10Brian Nelson4Sandra Cox67hollowmoose21 …
Maria Thomas48 Maria Thomas48 RegularOP
329 messages
joined Jan 2014
#141 ·
From a letter to a friend:

" They try to convince us that by simply taking out more loans, we’ll somehow have enough cash to cover both the principal and the interest. But there's no guarantee that new money will actually show up to pay those interest rates, or better yet, to create any kind of actual value for the community—real, newly created wealth. Nobody talks about that part. It isn't treated as an issue, and nobody seems worried because everyone just immediately jumps to inflation. Inflation becomes this big bogeyman that people accept any other solution to avoid. They just tell us, "We can't do this because of inflation, so this is our only option." And if we follow that logic, everything will be fine. But the government was the one who ordered the inflation in the first place. So, they claim they were being irresponsible with printing money and that it was wrong, but they weren't smart enough to realize they needed new liquidity. Our economists are absolute geniuses. Now, seeing as there clearly isn't enough money, Rohatinski is releasing $2.9 billion to be pumped back into the system through loans. Just look at the profit hidden in that over a single year with 6% interest. That's $174 million in interest alone. Or $133 per person. This means that in one year, banks will attempt to pull $174 million in real cash out of the economy based solely on this. And they'll do it every year. If that's true, it means banks collect $14 billion every year just from that 6% interest. Based on my math against a $333 billion GDP, that works out to 4%. Considering solid stocks like AT&T yield about 7%, and realistically capital should bring at least 5% annual profit, it feels like almost all of us are working just to pay off interest. Theoretically, this is happening only because there isn't enough money to cover the interest payments. Instead, they should probably inject, say, an extra 3% of a $118 billion budget—about $3.5 billion—through a primary offering ($482 million). That would be roughly 1.2% of existing savings, which isn't a sum large enough to trigger hyperinflation. It's about 1% of the GDP. Doing this would allow for a gain/saving per person of $292.

However, if bank savings sit at $290 billion, which is about $38 billion, and our national debt is even higher, it practically means we already know the debt can't be repaid since our savings are less than what we owe. Plus, every year, based on 6% interest on a $250 billion principal, banks are claiming $2 billion. Banks have operating costs too, though I don't know exactly how much.

We have inflation at 3.5%, and it didn't come from printing money? Who is drinking and who is paying? Where does this extra 3.5% of money—$10 billion, or 8.5% of the budget—come from every year? It comes from raising wages. But how can you raise wages if you aren't earning more? And how can you earn more if there is no new money? You have to speed up the exchange of goods (and shorten payment terms). So, things are happening in reverse and nobody is raising an eyebrow. The government steadily calculates that our average wage is 3.5% higher every year, and it's been that way for years. No problem, right? But if at some point everything doubles in price, an equivalent amount of money must appear in circulation (without using loans) to cover it. If you do that through credit, you have to be an absolute idiot, because then you're just paying interest on an artificial inflationary flow. In reality, there wasn't even inflation, because that would mean money lost value. The money still holds its value; it's just that an excess of credit appeared, which we mistakenly thought was inflationary money we could use to boost earnings. Then, with higher earnings, we took out even bigger loans. And so on.

If you take 1.035 and raise it to the 18th power (years), you get 1.85. Translated to 100% of savings, you have an additional 85% in credit, while the bank keeps a 15% mandatory reserve. There is 85% more money. Wages have risen that much, while the banks are rubbing their hands together with $2 billion in annual collections. Logically, it would make sense if they actually printed money, but then the banks wouldn't have their eternal cash cows. However, the ceiling has been reached. There is no room for new credit. Rohatinski is buying time by allowing for an even smaller mandatory reserve. Yet, the state still demands 3.5% more in contributions this year. It's interesting—even after significant salary cuts at various companies, the results look just like they did during the best years. Just when I thought average wages would start falling, and therefore contributions would drop too.

If you leverage 1,035 against 20, you end up with 1.99. Essentially, Rohatinski would have to allow for a mandatory 1% reserve, otherwise, banks won't have any foundation to back any kind of credit within a two-year window. It’s interesting, really. That was back in 2012. If you walked into any bank back then asking for money, they’d probably just hand you a number, tell you to go home, and say they'll notify you when you can actually withdraw your funds. So, I’d suggest moving all your cash out of the bank and into something secure—like a bank vault or converting it to gold.
"

Take Greece, for example. Their famous double-digit budget deficit proves that the old saying "as broke as Greece" is making a comeback. And the EU is acting surprised that they didn't see the bankruptcy coming. Maybe the old adage holds true: the EU will fall apart before America ever joins the union.

To get a full picture of this total chaos, I took the time to read the ECB statutes. I noticed something important: the latest version isn't even a text file; it's a scanned document. That means search engines can't index it. After a little extra digging, I managed to find an earlier version on a web archive site, and I found some fascinating data. The ECB exclusively finances banks and corporations. Of course, they finance national central banks too. However, there is absolutely no mention of a primary issuance mechanism. That’s strange, considering there is a clause regarding a founding capital of XXXX million euros. It might be time to ask ourselves: what came first, money or credit? This statute suggests that money existed first, and now only credit exists. The exception is interest on deposited funds, which is far too small to cover the demand for new money (for reasons I mentioned earlier).

I did some rough math, and it looks like Americans need about 2 billion dollars in liquidity per year just to cover interest payments to banks. That means the credits being discussed might only plug the hole until late summer, assuming you factor in the time needed to secure and spend the funds.

By the way, anyone using cards for cashless payments should probably ask themselves what the bank's commission actually is. It’s typically 5%, if I’m not mistaken. If you lost 5% just trying to withdraw cash from an ATM, people would call it a peasant revolt. The same thing would happen if you had to pay 5% extra just to buy something; banks are basically holding merchants hostage by imposing a percentage fee on every transaction. Even if you think you aren't losing anything personally, we are being depleted globally. Final consumption accounts for anywhere from 30% to 60% of GDP. If everything were paid via card, those bank fees would represent 1.5% to 3% of the entire US GDP. And while that might not sound like much, we can certainly afford it. We’re talking about 5 to 10 billion dollars. To put it bluntly, a 60 million dollar robbery is a catastrophe, but we can easily stomach it when it's done legally. On $333 card payments, the bank earns 50. If you spend your entire paycheck of $2333 through a card, the bank has made $117 off you. I honestly wonder why they even charge annual membership fees. I guess it helps maintain the illusion that they aren't profiting. So, stick to cash. The "robbery" involved in cash deposits for businesses is significantly lower, around 0.4% of the total. That leaves the company with 4.6% of their gross turnover. In my opinion, any honest customer wants their supplier to stay afloat.

Anyway, my plan to alert the media and other key players—TV, radio, newspapers, the government, unions, environmentalists, etc.—has met with absolutely zero response. I wasn't expecting a standing ovation, obviously, but total silence is genuinely concerning. It implies one of two things: either most people have no clue what the actual truth is, or the people responsible for informing and leading us aren't reacting to the facts because... well, several things could be happening:
  • The leaders know exactly what's going on, but nobody wants to take action.
  • Or, the situation is so unbelievable that everyone assumes it's just nonsense.
  • Or, everyone is terrified to publish the truth for fear of sparking a massive uprising.


Personally, I think it's the last one. Especially when you look at the scenes from the anti-globalist protests.

Even though I am one of the few willing to waste time pointing out the problems dragging us toward ruin, that doesn't mean I'm wrong. I've even heard it said that the goal of education is indoctrination. So, it makes sense that as a non-economist, I’ve managed to prove the system's deception more effectively than a degreed economist. In any closed system, treating costs and revenues as taboo subjects in economic studies is standard practice. It fits perfectly with the recent summer programs held at the University of Chicago.

People will probably rally to save five little trees before they ever try to fix a fraudulent monetary system. It’s just because those trees get cut down in an hour, while banks bleed you dry for years. And when they hit you, you take it personally instead of seeing the bigger picture. You always end up thinking if you had been luckier, things might have gone differently.

Success on a global scale is impossible. Here’s a simple way to look at it. Imagine a small state with a million people where everyone takes out a loan from $333. For every billion borrowed, there needs to be a hundred million returned. That brings the total to 1100 million. What’s the final balance? Everyone ends up with $33 less. Now everyone is short on cash again, so they all take out more loans. This time they’re larger by $33, totaling $367. You see where this goes. But it can't go on forever. Even roulette players have a system that works, provided they can keep raising their bets indefinitely. But that doesn't work here. The bank always wins. They just had to make sure there was no primary issuance of money (just look at the Federal Reserve statutes and the laws governing the Fed).

Over at http://sites.google.com/site/financijskisustav/, I’ve laid out the mathematical proof regarding the deficit, along with copies of letters sent to Rohatinski and President Obama. I wrote to Obama because he once said: "We must not be afraid, we must not be silent, and we must not turn our heads," "It is courage that overcomes injustice and creates a better society," and "In the fight for justice, I will never tire." Well, now we wait to see if those were just empty words or not.

Regards to everyone
Maria Thomas48 Maria Thomas48 RegularOP
329 messages
joined Jan 2014
#142 ·
If you didn't buy what I was saying before about how this debt-based economy is just a trap designed to turn us all into indentured servants, then you really need to watch this video. I watched this video. It’s about how things work. How the money works. Most people don't see it. They just live their lives and pay their bills. But there is a structure underneath everything. A debt-based economy. That is what they are talking about here. It's all connected. The way the banks move and the way the government acts. You look at the big players like Goldman Sachs and you realize nothing is accidental. It is all very calculated. Very deliberate. People think it's just random chaos, but it isn't. There is a system. A very specific system designed to keep things moving in one direction. It's quite heavy when you really sit with it. Just thinking about it. Most people won't ever care. They won't look. But once you see the pattern, you can't unsee it. It's just there. Simple as that..

Debt-based economy. They’re going to convince everyone that this whole setup is perfectly legal, a legitimate system when really it's just a massive, organized scam. It’s a trap. We're being led straight into a swamp that we aren't ever going to crawl out of.

You guys seriously need to see this.

It's high time we all wake up and realize this isn't some fairy tale or a collection of fables. This is our actual reality, and it’s something that needs to be changed as soon as possible.

If you find yourself nodding along to my points and the evidence I've laid out here, you can just download my full collected article. The truth about the economic crisis.pdf I’m sending this out to everyone. Everyone needs to hear the truth, no matter how ugly or unbelievable it might seem, just so it can be known. There's an old saying: Quote : The
Public disbelief can actually be used to hide the biggest secrets. It’s a simple concept, really. When people stop trusting anything they hear, they stop looking for the truth altogether. They just tune out. And that's exactly when the most significant things can happen right under their noses without anyone noticing.
David Williams7 David Williams7 Member
10 messages
joined Jul 2009
#143 ·
It’s all just some global conspiracy by the Freemasons and the Illuminati in your eyes, I guess. :-)
Maria Thomas48 Maria Thomas48 RegularOP
329 messages
joined Jan 2014
#144 ·
David Williams7 said:It’s all just some global conspiracy by the Freemasons and the Illuminati in your eyes, I guess. :-)

Yeah, but honestly, does it even matter who is behind the plot if it ends up turning us all into slaves? It doesn't matter how long it’s been going on or who pulled the first trigger. What matters is that we figure out exactly what they are doing to us. We have to find out. And then we have to put pressure on our own Government to make them explain it to us.

Once one Government is forced to actually answer for it, other Governments will see that and get the courage to deal with it—to fix this mess properly.

We should be focusing on spreading the truth—the kind of truth we can actually prove—instead of just pushing conspiracy theories that are impossible to back up.
David Williams7 David Williams7 Member
10 messages
joined Jul 2009
#145 ·
It’s pretty obvious what’s actually going on here. This isn't about some recession or crisis or any of that nonsense. That's just the cover story. What we're looking at is straight-up financial terrorism. It's the final act—an attempt to dismantle every major global economy to build the New World Order from the ashes. Just keep an eye on the dollar; America will be the first to go down. They're getting sloppy in this final phase, too. They can't hide behind the usual excuses anymore because they have to take action, and their window is closing fast. A lot of people feel that sense of unease in the air, just like you did. Now it just comes down to who wins: us or them. Our edge is numbers; their edge is that most people are asleep at the wheel. We'll see how it plays out.

The New World Order is nothing but pure fascism and debt-based slavery. It’s a prison planet—basically hell on earth. Nothing good in it for us.

But hey, this is an economics forum and I'm just rambling on about nonsense, so I'm sure everything will be fine. I mean, look how long we've been stuck in this "crisis."🤣
Maria Thomas48 Maria Thomas48 RegularOP
329 messages
joined Jan 2014
#146 ·
David Williams7 said:It’s pretty obvious what’s actually going on here. This isn't about some recession or crisis or any of that nonsense. That's just the cover story. What we're looking at is straight-up financial terrorism. It's the final act—an attempt to dismantle every major global economy to build the New World Order from the ashes. Just keep an eye on the dollar; America will be the first to go down. They're getting sloppy in this final phase, too. They can't hide behind the usual excuses anymore because they have to take action, and their window is closing fast. A lot of people feel that sense of unease in the air, just like you did. Now it just comes down to who wins: us or them. Our edge is numbers; their edge is that most people are asleep at the wheel. We'll see how it plays out.

The New World Order is nothing but pure fascism and debt-based slavery. It’s a prison planet—basically hell on earth. Nothing good in it for us.

But hey, this is an economics forum and I'm just rambling on about nonsense, so I'm sure everything will be fine. I mean, look how long we've been stuck in this "crisis."🤣

I already noticed the first sign. Google switched the dollar currency to euros for AdSense earnings. Maybe it’s just a coincidence.

It's obvious the USA has to collapse because they can't carry that much debt. And honestly, they have themselves to blame. They had so much time to fix this. What were those mathematicians and analysts at the CIA even doing?
I don't worry about Americans. I worry about the total breakdown. Taking out loans for farms that were supposed to turn a profit for farmers turned into financial suicide. People who actually work the land know that only the countryside can save us. When things start tightening up, there won't be any imports from abroad because there won't be any money. And the farmers will all be wiped out by interest on loans they can't repay. The Government acts like they know what they're doing, but I think they're just waiting for their terms to end—maybe even sabotaging their own victory just so they don't accidentally win the elections. If they were true patriots, they’d tell people the truth straight to their faces, whatever happens. If there needs to be a revolution, better now than later. If there needs to be financial isolation, better now than later. I don't know what they're waiting for. I'm just an average mathematician and I easily proved where this is headed. A PhD in math would tear this apart in a few hours and tell them the truth.

Is it possible everyone has so much in secret accounts that they fear for their little scraps of wealth so much they'll turn us all into slaves before they ever let us be masters of our own land? That's usually called a coup... I think you know what I mean. Because our constitutional rights are being directly violated. There are no excuses for that. No politics justifies it. Venezuela is an example (maybe not the best one) of having solutions to such situations. We just don't have a leader with a vision. We could really use another Joe right now, if he wasn't so red.
David Williams7 David Williams7 Member
10 messages
joined Jul 2009
#147 ·
Look, what the people want doesn't matter. Logic and the "best" solution don't matter either. There is an agenda that has to be carried out, period. Democracy is just a game played for the masses. The keyword here is agenda, and the proof is right there.

In Ireland, they voted NO in the first referendum regarding the Treaty of Lisbon; the margin was significant. In a democracy, the will of the people is supposed to be "sacred." But the agenda dictates that the Treaty of Lisbon must pass, so it doesn't matter what the people want or what’s actually good for Ireland. Naturally, by the second referendum, they pushed the agenda through and Ireland voted YES. If you actually have the time to read the Treaty of Lisbon, anyone with half a brain would never vote for it. That treaty is vital for the NWO.

Take the US elections and Barack Obama. He promised mountains and molehills—ending wars, pulling back US troops. Everything he's doing now is the exact opposite of his rhetoric. With the healthcare reform he forced through Congress, he isn't just going to wreck the US economy; he’ll turn America into a third-world country. The fact that he's a puppet for his handlers is obvious—he can't even say two smart words without checking a teleprompter. He's just the frontman, the guy who takes the fall while the real masters stay hidden.

Look at us. We might be small players, but our politicians have masters they bow to, too. Under the current Constitution, to join the European Union, we should have to hold a referendum where the people decide if they want in or not. Of course, there won't be a referendum because the people would say NO. But since the agenda is to join the European Union (regardless of how the media spun it), the Government would rather just amend the Constitution than face a real vote.

The crisis in Greece. That's a textbook case of financial terrorism. Just look at what Goldman Sachs did in Greece and why the country is in its current state.

A shadow world government has existed since the end of WWII, and the United Nations plays a massive role in it. So, don't bother trying to change governments or policies; you won't succeed. People need to change themselves, practice civil disobedience, and completely ignore politics altogether.

Some light reading to wrap things up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc7i0...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhZk8...eature=related

Live free, die free :-)

@moderator .... sorry for the offtopic
Bradley Walker88 Bradley Walker88 Member
17 messages
joined Jul 2009
#148 ·
Quote : The | One
David Williams7 said:It’s pretty obvious what’s actually going on here. This isn't about some recession or crisis or any of that nonsense. That's just the cover story. What we're looking at is straight-up financial terrorism. It's the final act—an attempt to dismantle every major global economy to build the New World Order from the ashes. Just keep an eye on the dollar; America will be the first to go down. They're getting sloppy in this final phase, too. They can't hide behind the usual excuses anymore because they have to take action, and their window is closing fast. A lot of people feel that sense of unease in the air, just like you did. Now it just comes down to who wins: us or them. Our edge is numbers; their edge is that most people are asleep at the wheel. We'll see how it plays out.

The New World Order is nothing but pure fascism and debt-based slavery. It’s a prison planet—basically hell on earth. Nothing good in it for us.

But hey, this is an economics forum and I'm just rambling on about nonsense, so I'm sure everything will be fine. I mean, look how long we've been stuck in this "crisis."🤣

So, what’s the deal here? Are the Illuminati actually lurking on this forum and pivoting their entire strategy because of us?

15.7.2009.
Quote : The | One
David Williams7 said:I’ll tell you exactly how global politics is going to play out over the next six months.
A swine flu pandemic is coming. First, the UK and the US will push voluntary vaccinations, then they’ll make them mandatory. It’s all being orchestrated under the WHO. Just a heads-up: this whole swine flu thing is a scam. Don't get vaccinated, not even if they force you. Swine flu isn't lethal.

They’re going to try to force the Treaty of Lisbon through the European Union. Anyone who stands in its way in Ireland will be branded a terrorist.

3. Building an eternal government.

Potential flashpoints on the horizon: Israel vs. Iran, China vs. India, and America vs. North Korea.
William Richardson2 William Richardson2 Newcomer
7 messages
joined Dec 2009
#149 ·
Bradley Walker88 said:Quote : The | One

So, what’s the deal here? Are the Illuminati actually lurking on this forum and pivoting their entire strategy because of us?

15.7.2009.
Quote : The | One

Of course they’re reading... we all have to find somewhere to get the real story.😍
Maria Thomas48 Maria Thomas48 RegularOP
329 messages
joined Jan 2014
#150 ·
It’s not like the whole Government was in on this, really. It was just my letter from February 24, 2010, sent to President Jadranka Kosor, and with her blessing, passed along to Minister Ivan Šuker regarding his actions.

The substance of that letter lays out the proof that the crisis is happening because we lack the necessary primary issuance, and I backed it all up with mathematical evidence. I’ve already shared those specific details in my previous posts on this subject.

So, I am posting this now to make it official: Minister Šuker has been formally notified about the root cause of all these crises. From here on out, everything is in Godly hands.. 🙏

Smart people might say, "True heroes are revealed in times of trouble," or "Time will tell."

But I would just add, "The truth will be what saves us all."

Stay safe, everyone, and keep your fingers crossed that something good finally comes of all this for us.
Maria Thomas48 Maria Thomas48 RegularOP
329 messages
joined Jan 2014
#151 ·
My attempts to alert the Government and the President about why this crisis is happening have actually paid off.
Alright, all jokes aside. I got a response from the President's office saying they’ve taken note of my position. There's really no need for me to elaborate further.

By the way, anyone who thought my equations were wrong can go ahead and start attacking Professor Dirkety Krueger too. In his book "Macroeconomics", specifically on page 27, he lays out the exact same thing for the open market. He just doesn't draw the necessary conclusions regarding the credit-based financial system and how inflation impacts the economy in that specific context.

For those interested in reading exactly what I sent to the Government, the President, and the Fed Chair, you can find everything right here: http://sites.google.com/site/financijskisustav/

And apparently, nobody cares. Even the President claims he'll fight for fairness and will never back down. Honestly, it feels like he isn't a man of his word.

I'm still holding onto the hope that the truth will be what saves us.
neonhound10 neonhound10 Active Member
126 messages
joined Aug 2009
#152 ·
Maria Thomas48 said:My attempts to alert the Government and the President about why this crisis is happening have actually paid off.
Alright, all jokes aside. I got a response from the President's office saying they’ve taken note of my position. There's really no need for me to elaborate further.

By the way, anyone who thought my equations were wrong can go ahead and start attacking Professor Dirkety Krueger too. In his book "Macroeconomics", specifically on page 27, he lays out the exact same thing for the open market. He just doesn't draw the necessary conclusions regarding the credit-based financial system and how inflation impacts the economy in that specific context.

For those interested in reading exactly what I sent to the Government, the President, and the Fed Chair, you can find everything right here: http://sites.google.com/site/financijskisustav/

And apparently, nobody cares. Even the President claims he'll fight for fairness and will never back down. Honestly, it feels like he isn't a man of his word.

I'm still holding onto the hope that the truth will be what saves us.

You've got an extra letter in your URL...

you mean http
wearysailor71 wearysailor71 Newcomer
2 messages
joined Mar 2010
#153 ·
Maria Thomas48 said:My attempts to alert the Government and the President about why this crisis is happening have actually paid off.
Alright, all jokes aside. I got a response from the President's office saying they’ve taken note of my position. There's really no need for me to elaborate further.

By the way, anyone who thought my equations were wrong can go ahead and start attacking Professor Dirkety Krueger too. In his book "Macroeconomics", specifically on page 27, he lays out the exact same thing for the open market. He just doesn't draw the necessary conclusions regarding the credit-based financial system and how inflation impacts the economy in that specific context.

For those interested in reading exactly what I sent to the Government, the President, and the Fed Chair, you can find everything right here: http://sites.google.com/site/financijskisustav/

And apparently, nobody cares. Even the President claims he'll fight for fairness and will never back down. Honestly, it feels like he isn't a man of his word.

I'm still holding onto the hope that the truth will be what saves us.

Maria Thomas48, I tip my hat to you for putting in all that effort.🙏
You are clearly brilliant—your logical reasoning is quite something to behold.

In my humble opinion, things are looking bleak... the Government is getting stupider by the day,
while the common people are finally starting to wake up...http://hrsvijet.net/index.php?option...rstvo&Itemid=8

I'm worried—the outlook is grim... once the summer passes (after a failed season), the real chaos is going to hit.☕
neonhound10 neonhound10 Active Member
126 messages
joined Aug 2009
#154 ·
wearysailor71 said:Maria Thomas48, I tip my hat to you for putting in all that effort.🙏
You are clearly brilliant—your logical reasoning is quite something to behold.

In my humble opinion, things are looking bleak... the Government is getting stupider by the day,
while the common people are finally starting to wake up...http://hrsvijet.net/index.php?option...rstvo&Itemid=8

I'm worried—the outlook is grim... once the summer passes (after a failed season), the real chaos is going to hit.☕

Personally, I always find it amusing when a single economist acts like they're the only ones who actually understand how the economy works.

They couldn't be more wrong, and if you look at what's happening right now, it just proves the point...

I'm not sure if everyone realizes how scientific circles and research groups actually operate. They spend ages researching and building up these complex theories that make perfect sense to them within their own little bubble, even if those theories are riddled with flaws—it's just how their brains are wired, I suppose. That's why they often bring in outsiders from completely different fields to shake things up with "stupid" questions or assumptions that seem totally nonsensical to them. And usually, that's exactly how they end up proving that their original theory wasn't all that great to begin with.

At the end of the day, it's all just approximations of the truth, but every time we go through this process, we move just a little bit closer to the actual solution... much like a mathematical limit approaching a value 🙂
Gregory Williams7 Gregory Williams7 Active Member
144 messages
joined Mar 2014
#155 ·
I am in complete agreement with you. This is precisely why one consults an auto mechanic during a crisis rather than an economist.

Just consider this scenario: how would you perform if you were suddenly tasked with managing the nation's entire money supply?

And once again, Nostradamus, a global crisis does not occur simply because there is a lack of liquidity in the system. As you pointed out, money is merely a medium of exchange; it possesses no intrinsic value. The current global crisis stems from the fact that certain nations have spent years living on credit to fund consumption rather than production. It has become clear that some countries will never be able to repay their debts. Trust has evaporated, credit has dried up, or interest rates have climbed so high that these debtor nations find repayment even more impossible. It is a closed loop. This cycle will inevitably lead to defaults in several countries, but once the system is purged, moving forward should become easier. Everyone will learn a hard lesson. Printing money without cutting spending leads directly to hyperinflation. This is basic logic. Why is this so difficult to grasp? You aren't reinventing the wheel. The USA has been attempting to exit a recession for over a year using that exact method—printing money to stimulate spending—and the result is a record deficit, record debt, and record unemployment.
Gregory Williams7 Gregory Williams7 Active Member
144 messages
joined Mar 2014
#156 ·
Every economy must be built upon the pillars of savings and investment.
The cycle should follow a logical progression: savings leads to investment, which generates profit, which then feeds back into more savings.
A healthy economy grows on this foundation.
Mistakes occur when this sequence is corrupted into... credit leading to investment, followed by profit, and finally interest payments.
Why is this dangerous? If you fail under the first model, you simply lose your savings. But if you fail under the second, you become a burden on the state and society, while the interest eats away at any potential profit.
However, that scenario is still preferable to the alternative...
The absolute worst solution—a total economic suicide and an atomic bomb dropped on national finances—is... credit leading directly to consumption.
This is a silent killer. You often don't realize it exists until it is far too late.

We, along with many others (USA, Greece, Italy, Spain, UK, ...), have lived this way for decades. Even today, those who can afford to continue doing so, do. Most people lacked the fundamental financial education required to understand their own actions. They behaved like a herd, blindly following whatever direction the leader set.

The crisis we face now has been brewing for years. Would you truly attempt to solve it by simply printing a mountain of cash?😉 Please, listen to reason.🙂
The actual solution requires reducing government spending, minimizing the tax burden as much as possible, and paying down debt without taking on more. Such measures inevitably trigger social unrest. This is why such a straightforward solution is so difficult to implement; it requires perfect timing and careful dosage.

Read this. Reflect on it. Then, come back to me with your questions and new ideas.😉
neonhound10 neonhound10 Active Member
126 messages
joined Aug 2009
#157 ·
It’s not just about the mechanics 😉

Honestly, anyone who thinks they have a PhD in economics is probably part of the reason everything is falling apart in the first place... because while all those theories look great on a chalkboard in some Ivy League classroom, they rarely hold up once you actually step out into the real world and see how things truly work
wearysailor71 wearysailor71 Newcomer
2 messages
joined Mar 2010
#158 ·
neonhound10 said:It’s not just about the mechanics 😉

Honestly, anyone who thinks they have a PhD in economics is probably part of the reason everything is falling apart in the first place... because while all those theories look great on a chalkboard in some Ivy League classroom, they rarely hold up once you actually step out into the real world and see how things truly work

And you, Get, have my respect just as much as Nostradamus does...🙏🙏
If I were in Obama's shoes, I’d have recruited you guys into my inner circle immediately... seriously,
kudos to those providing such straightforward, logical takes.

The people running this country hire all sorts of economic theorists as advisors—going all the way up to actual THEOLOGIANS—which, quite frankly, sickens me because they are nothing more than professional snake oil salesmen
selling pure theory.

It stands to reason that a mechanic understands how the economy actually functions better than these highly educated
economists—or "theologians"—who happen to dabble in politics on the side...☕
Maria Thomas48 Maria Thomas48 RegularOP
329 messages
joined Jan 2014
#159 ·
I don't really have anything to say about markotros. Just sitting here. Thinking about things. No specific thoughts on that particular user right now. Nothing much else going on. Maria Thomas48 says:
I'm right there with you on this. It’s exactly why when your car breaks down, you go talk to a mechanic instead of some economist.

Just thought I'd show you all what it would look like if they actually handed you the keys to the money supply.
The global economy is looking pretty shaky right now. You look at the headlines and it’s just one thing after another. There's this massive tension building up between the major powers, especially with how much influence China holds over everything these days. It feels like we're walking on eggshells. Everything is interconnected, you know? One shift in the markets and suddenly everyone is panicking about inflation or a recession hitting home here in the States. I was reading about how the big players are trying to steady the ship, but it's hard when the foundation feels so unsteady. It reminds me of how volatile things used to get back in the early 2000s, though maybe even more complex now because of how fast information travels. People are worried about their savings, their jobs, and whether the Federal Reserve is going to move too fast or too slow with interest rates. It's all very heavy. Sometimes I think we focus too much on the numbers and forget that there are actual people behind those percentages, just trying to figure out if they can afford their mortgage next month. It's a lot to process. Just a lot.

Look, Maria Thomas48, I’m saying it again. This global crisis didn't happen because there isn't enough money floating around in the system. Like you mentioned before, money is just a tool for exchange—it doesn't have any intrinsic value on its own. The real reason we're facing this mess is that people in certain countries have been living on credit for years. They spend and spend without actually producing anything. That's the core of it.

It was pretty bold to claim that the actual amount of money doesn't really matter. But looking at what’s happening today—where the government is basically settling its debts through barter instead of cash—it just shows that theory is wrong. It’s pretty clear now.

The whole economy just ground to a halt because one person couldn't pay someone else, and then that person couldn't pay a third person. It’s a chain reaction. People love to push this theory that the actual amount of money doesn't really matter, but you can debunk that pretty easily using mathematical induction. For instance, could an economy function if we stripped away just 1% of the money supply? Sure, it could. But then you take another 1% out of that remaining amount. And another. You keep going until you've theoretically extracted 100% of the money, proving on paper that everything still works perfectly fine. Well, we're about to see how that plays out in the real world, though I suspect the only thing left functioning will be simple bartering. It’s a lot like the human circulatory system. The body regenerates itself—it isn't built like a credit-based financial system—but just because you can survive losing 1% of your blood doesn't mean you can arbitrarily decide to take X% of it without facing some pretty dire consequences.

Money printing in the US is just different. It’s a whole other ballgame. The government ends up borrowing from the Federal Reserve because, honestly, there isn't really any other legal way to make it happen. And if you look at how the laws governing the Federal Reserve ended up looking so much like the rules for the European Central Bank, the Bank of England, or the Federal Reserve... man, that's a story all on its own. If anyone is into conspiracy theories, they could spend all day digging into that one.
The U.S. isn't going to be able to pay this debt back. Honestly, we’re just pushing the inevitable collapse further down the road by letting that debt grow exponentially. It feels like a ticking clock. That's why I think it's smarter to swap those dollars for gold. When you look at all the other fiat currencies out there, none of them are any more reliable than the dollar. Gold is just safer.

The math just doesn't lie when you look at the accounting. Based on the equations, there is simply no way to pay back that kind of debt through hard work alone. I mean, honestly, unless you're looking at a massive outlier like China right now, it’s basically impossible. You'd need a massive surge in exports or to start selling off pieces of territory just to break even. It's just how the numbers fall.

What I’m getting at here is essentially what Dirk Krueger laid out in his book on Macroeconomics—you can actually find a translated version of it if you look around a local university library. He provides that proof regarding an open economy. But, if we narrow our focus to a closed economy—treating it like a self-contained cell that has to be entirely self-sufficient to thrive—the equations change. Once you account for the lack of foreign trade deficits, you end up with the conclusion that the only possible permanent source of money is the government budget, specifically through its deficit.

First, we’d need to actually prove that economic growth is impossible without printing more money. People love to claim the US proved this back during the gold standard era, supposedly because there wasn't enough gold to cover all the profits and savings, which meant there was no monetary expansion. That's the argument, anyway.

Now that we've actually got the full picture, it’s pretty clear that a deficit isn't just inevitable—it’s a necessity. And honestly, once you look at how it scales against the GDP, the gap starts looking a lot more manageable than people think. It's just math, really.

All these settings just point toward a planned economy. It’s not some wild fantasy I’m dreaming up either, it's just the reality we're looking at. I don't exactly love the idea, and I'm certainly not out here campaigning for it. But honestly? There isn't any other way out of this mess.

So, what’s the actual way out here? First off, everyone needs to realize that the only real path forward involves a total overhaul of the financial system. That's just how it is. Second, we need to see energy companies being bought up or consolidated to actually stabilize fuel prices. I know, I know—it sounds crazy to even suggest that. But if you look at the data, we’re basically draining the bottom half of our reserves. At the current rate, unless we somehow get a handle on population growth and overall energy consumption, we’re going to be left high and dry in maybe 20 or 35 years. It's just a matter of math.

Thirdly. Corruption needs to be wiped out from the government apparatus, and ideally using a Chinese method of resolution (standing before a wall). Any major price gouging or hiking prices just for extra profit should be punished by expropriation (I’m talking about the essential stuff). The number of officials and agencies should be organized so that the maximum amount of work gets done with the absolute minimum number of people. Of course, the laws need to be written in a way that actually allows for that.

Fourth. There needs to be a precisely drawn-out plan. Some might call it a five-year plan. Salaries need to be brought down in accordance with our actual comparable GDP per capita. It’s only natural that we can't have salaries higher than those of people who have higher production per capita.

Fifth: Credit expansion should be cut back according to planned profit. That is, you shouldn't be giving out more credit than can be used to generate enough profit during that period to pay it back (along with other profits). Basically, there must be a strict limit on how much profit banks can pull out, and it has to be significantly less than the possible profit in that period.

Sixth: All of this needs to be coordinated with other countries to maintain currency parity. What America should be doing would serve as a general program for everyone. This would achieve convertibility for every currency that follows the plan. Working nations could have convertible currencies, not just the big ones.

Seventh: We need to solve the globalization problem where one group of workers is exploited just so another group can be undercut by cheap prices. This doesn't benefit the first group or the second. How do you fix it? An intergovernmental agreement is required. In the end, the state finances everything. If a state cares about its own population, it won't allow the import of cheap goods that could be profitably produced under our own conditions, because the state directly pays for that—it's essentially subsidizing a foreign economy. We first need to ensure prosperity as a closed community. Maybe the solution would be to reintroduce something like commodity reciprocity. If you want to export something, then you have to import something you actually need, rather than just cheap junk.

Eighth: Entrepreneurial freedom shouldn't be restricted as long as it isn't generating "extra" profit that ultimately covers the budget deficit. That kind of thing devalues money and triggers an inflationary spiral. Anyone seeking to achieve extra profit must spend that profit as effectively as possible or reduce it right from the start. Naturally, proven laundering of extra profits would be punished by expropriation.

Ninth: Greed for earnings should be sanctioned in drastic ways. Meaning, wholesalers, resellers, and middlemen must cap their margins at a certain percentage of the purchase price (including the real cost of transport).

The other solution is debt and misery.

Maybe some things could be handled differently, but the most important thing is understanding that under new regulations, the state indirectly regulates the profit of the community through the deficit. This cannot be "easy money" like in a fairy tale; it must correspond to the labor invested to earn that money, just as it did in the previous period.

Based on the fifth conclusion, it is clear that living on credit beyond one's means simply doesn't work. The only thing people still can't seem to grasp is that in a credit-based system, life only functions through exponential indebtedness (or through slave labor exclusively for exports). It doesn't really matter if you take out one loan or two when you know you can't repay even one, let alone two. The only difference is that with two loans, you get into debt twice as fast.

Actually, there is a lot here, but people just won't open their eyes and realize that the existing system has no actual source of money for profits and savings. What someone saves and profits from is essentially part of someone else's credit. And that person will never be able to repay it as long as the wealth isn't taken from the profiteers.

The final claim is mathematically provable. You have my examples involving three entities from my earlier posts. If the system doesn't function in isolation without credit, then it isn't good. And that is a proven truth.

I sent the core of the indebtedness problem to the President and the administration just to prove they are incompetent (or just false leaders), especially since they now have the problem laid out in black and white.

I am not an economist, nor do I want to be one. Anyone who actually finished an economics degree should have seen this coming. People were intentionally taught the wrong things. All those folks with PhDs in economics really ought to head back to campus and kick that whole crowd out of their positions until they can pass basic accounting principles for isolated communities. By hiding such a massive part of the truth, they’ve failed you as professionals and failed the entire country. Are these supposed to be the intellectuals and patriots fighting for the US with their knowledge? Someone is responsible here. This is our moral crisis. And if you look closely, that moral crisis is exactly what led us into this economic one. It's a crisis of morality among the economics professors and their students.

Just imagine being the Chair of the Federal Reserve and having absolutely no clue about any of this. And you don't even care. You didn't even whisper a word to the government back in 2007 when it became clear we were heading downhill—slowly, sure, but we were. That is a moral crisis. Even when someone asks you about the logical side of things, you aren't allowed to tell the truth, because then you'd be admitting you knew exactly where the ship was headed.

Even the responses from the White House and the President’s office suggest they have no desire to start a revolution. Paychecks keep coming, right on schedule every month. They say they're preparing for lean times, and so on. Americans will always find a way. "We've always managed before, and we'll manage now." But maybe one day we'll wake up and realize this was all just a bad dream.

Anyway, thanks for pushing back on my points. You're certainly more qualified than the people over on the Reddit forums. But what does that matter when my claims and evidence align 99% with what is actually happening on the ground.

Every single day on the news, you see companies in all sorts of industries filing for bankruptcy. That is pure proof that this crisis is exclusively about a lack of money. The Federal Reserve charts regarding credit expansion confirm this. Once the credit expansion stops—because there aren't any naive people left willing to take on more debt—everything collapses. But it collapses to a level lower than where we started, according to the formulas. We pumped up average wages through credit growth, and now we're killing small business owners with high debt loads for payroll and healthcare, but the money is gone. The banks and other high-profit corporations ate it all, along with all that importing.

Not a single one of these new-age economists can explain how inflation affects the economy when the financial system is purely credit-based. I even sent a letter to the Federal Reserve asking them to tell me exactly how much it costs us to feed this inflationary movement imported from abroad (like oil prices in the Gulf or gas from Russia, etc.).

Talking to people, I see a huge lack of interest and a real difficulty in grasping the problem (it's the same way here on this forum). The older generation doesn't care, and the younger ones aren't looking to build careers anyway; they just want pocket money. Everything else, they get from their parents.

For example, if you tried to present this truth to farmers, they wouldn't believe you. The collective state of mind isn't capable of recognizing such an obvious scam. Everyone gets distracted by the thrill of trading and fails to see the link between commerce and the actual lack of money. With credit, people think about living beyond their means, failing to see it's just masking the truth—that without credit, prosperity wouldn't be possible at all. We would have felt the consequences immediately within a couple of years, rather than waiting fifteen.

Even if I'm wrong about other things, just tell me: how much GDP growth would we need, if inflation is 3.5% and the bank interest rate is 6%, for the GDP growth to exceed the cost of inflation by 1%? Show me that for a long-term period of 20 years. Nothing else matters. Once you run that math, everything becomes clear.

Regards to everyone.
Maria Thomas48 Maria Thomas48 RegularOP
329 messages
joined Jan 2014
#160 ·
To save everyone some trouble, I put together an Excel spreadsheet to figure out how much inflationary debt builds up if we want to maintain the same real money supply value over the years.

inflation: 3.50%

bank interest: 6.00%

principal: 100

Columns are:Year; Money Supply; Inflationary Mass; Interest Debt; Accrued Interest; Total Debt

0 100.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 = 1996.
1 103.50 3.50 0.00 0.21 3.71
2 107.12 7.12 0.21 0.44 7.77
3 110.87 10.87 0.65 0.69 12.21
4 114.75 14.75 1.34 1.19 17.28
5 118.77 18.77 2.53 1.28 22.57
6 122.93 22.93 3.81 1.60 28.34
7 127.23 27.23 5.41 1.96 34.60
8 131.68 31.68 7.37 2.34 41.39
9 136.29 36.29 9.71 2.76 48.76
10 141.06 41.06 12.47 3.21 56.74
11 146.00 46.00 15.68 3.70 65.38
12 151.11 51.11 19.38 4.23 74.72
13 156.40 56.40 23.61 4.80 84.81
14 161.87 61.87 28.41 5.42 95.70 = 2010.
15 167.53 67.53 33.83 6.08 107.45
16 173.40 73.40 39.91 6.80 120.11
17 179.47 79.47 46.71 7.57 133.75
18 185.75 85.75 54.28 8.40 148.43
19 192.25 92.25 62.68 9.30 164.23
20 198.98 98.98 71.98 10.26 181.22
21 205.94 105.94 82.24 11.29 199.47 = 2017.
22 213.15 113.15 93.53 12.40 219.08
23 220.61 113.49 105.93 13.17 232.58
24 228.33 128.33 119.10 14.85 262.27
25 236.32 136.32 133.94 16.22 286.48
26 244.60 144.60 150.16 17.69 312.44
27 253.16 153.16 167.84 19.26 340.26
28 262.02 162.02 187.10 20.95 370.07
29 271.19 171.19 208.05 22.75 401.99 = 2025.
30 280.68 180.68 230.80 24.69 436.17

Conclusion: total interest tends toward the limit of inflation plus bank interest (3.5 + 6 = 9.5) because the inflationary debt and interest debt hit the principal level after just 14 years. When you factor in the trade deficit on top of that, things look even worse.

A practical take on these numbers. With average inflation at 3.5% and borrowing interest at 6%, we have basically reached the point where the initial money supply equals the debt required to generate extra money for inflation this year. In 7 years, the debt will double, and in 15 years, it will be four times larger. And that is just looking at inflation within a strictly credit-based financial system. Even China won't be able to sustain this for long. I heard they are having issues with inflation. This explains why the USA doubles its debt to the Federal Reserve in periods shorter than 6 years and why the borrowing has accelerated. Standard inflation is a clear indicator, but what about those worsening debt parameters?

Does anyone have an economic explanation for this banking perpetual motion machine? Or are we all just being dense and couldn't see this sooner. Maybe we should have learned it in college.

Note that all the money used for inflation comes from someone else's loan—a loan that was essentially sunk just to increase the money supply (to maintain the same real value)—and that party hasn't paid the debt back.

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