Is it actually possible to change your sexual orientation?

Gary James88 said:That might have been true fifty years ago, but today the American Psychoanalytic Association doesn't view homosexuality as a disorder. They even include openly gay individuals in their training programs and support the fight for civil rights, including marriage equality.

http://hem.passagen.se/nicb/psychoanalysis.htm

Maybe those powerful lobbies managed to turn them around in the meantime... 🙄

You forgot to mention what "doesn't classify" actually looked like in practice back in '74: 58% of APA members voted to strip it from the DSM. That means 42% were still against it. Have those remaining 42% suddenly gained wisdom or stumbled upon groundbreaking new scientific data over the last 35 years? I highly doubt it. Personally, I suspect this isn't about science, xexexe—it's more about politics and ideology.

Gary James88 said:That might have been true fifty years ago, but today the American Psychoanalytic Association doesn't view homosexuality as a disorder. They even include openly gay individuals in their training programs and support the fight for civil rights, including marriage equality.

http://hem.passagen.se/nicb/psychoanalysis.htm

Maybe those powerful lobbies managed to turn them around in the meantime... 🙄

True enough. 🤷 Essentially, any rational person realizes there is no logical reason to fight against gay lobbies (the whole "live and let live" principle). The only ones standing in their way are the intensely religious types—people whose faith dictates how they behave within a multicultural society (something many liberal-minded believers refuse to do). Everyone else, even if they disagree, simply lacks the will or the desire to draw unnecessary attention to themselves and risk their careers. Except, of course, for the less bright minds, like Gruden. 😬 (And people like him... there are plenty, mostly found in the religiously charged halls of NARTH)

lonegardener said:You forgot to mention what "doesn't classify" actually looked like in practice back in '74: 58% of APA members voted to strip it from the DSM. That means 42% were still against it. Have those remaining 42% suddenly gained wisdom or stumbled upon groundbreaking new scientific data over the last 35 years? I highly doubt it. Personally, I suspect this isn't about science, xexexe—it's more about politics and ideology.

True enough. 🤷 Essentially, any rational person realizes there is no logical reason to fight against gay lobbies (the whole "live and let live" principle). The only ones standing in their way are the intensely religious types—people whose faith dictates how they behave within a multicultural society (something many liberal-minded believers refuse to do). Everyone else, even if they disagree, simply lacks the will or the desire to draw unnecessary attention to themselves and risk their careers. Except, of course, for the less bright minds, like Gruden. 😬 (And people like him... there are plenty, mostly found in the religiously charged halls of NARTH)

I honestly don't get why homosexuals and "pro-gay" activists are so aggressive toward religious people.

Growing up in religious education and attending church myself—I have truly never heard anything directed against homosexuals. The "worst" thing I’ve heard recently was a bishop on TV stating that marriage should consist of "him and her," rather than "her and her" or "him and him"—that was the gist of it, at least—and that was the extent of it.

And frankly, I think you'd be surprised by how much empathy I've encountered from clergy when discussing homosexuality; they almost always emphasize that these individuals must first and foremost be respected as human beings and understood. Yet, the Church seems to be the primary target. It strikes me that those attacking the Church likely don't even attend services, otherwise, they might actually know what is being said in those halls.

lonegardener said:You forgot to mention what "doesn't classify" actually looked like in practice back in '74: 58% of APA members voted to strip it from the DSM. That means 42% were still against it. Have those remaining 42% suddenly gained wisdom or stumbled upon groundbreaking new scientific data over the last 35 years? I highly doubt it. Personally, I suspect this isn't about science, xexexe—it's more about politics and ideology.

True enough. 🤷 Essentially, any rational person realizes there is no logical reason to fight against gay lobbies (the whole "live and let live" principle). The only ones standing in their way are the intensely religious types—people whose faith dictates how they behave within a multicultural society (something many liberal-minded believers refuse to do). Everyone else, even if they disagree, simply lacks the will or the desire to draw unnecessary attention to themselves and risk their careers. Except, of course, for the less bright minds, like Gruden. 😬 (And people like him... there are plenty, mostly found in the religiously charged halls of NARTH)

I think you're referring to the American Psychiatric Association back in '74—they were the ones making the call, not the psychoanalytic group. Both use the acronym APA, which gets confusing. Honestly, though, it’s not that deep. Defining a single psychological disorder isn't exactly a purely scientific process, and deciding whether homosexuality should even be classified as a disorder wasn't strictly based on science either.

lonegardener said:You forgot to mention what "doesn't classify" actually looked like in practice back in '74: 58% of APA members voted to strip it from the DSM. That means 42% were still against it. Have those remaining 42% suddenly gained wisdom or stumbled upon groundbreaking new scientific data over the last 35 years? I highly doubt it. Personally, I suspect this isn't about science, xexexe—it's more about politics and ideology.

True enough. 🤷 Essentially, any rational person realizes there is no logical reason to fight against gay lobbies (the whole "live and let live" principle). The only ones standing in their way are the intensely religious types—people whose faith dictates how they behave within a multicultural society (something many liberal-minded believers refuse to do). Everyone else, even if they disagree, simply lacks the will or the desire to draw unnecessary attention to themselves and risk their careers. Except, of course, for the less bright minds, like Gruden. 😬 (And people like him... there are plenty, mostly found in the religiously charged halls of NARTH)

Look, you have to remember that defining a disorder via the DSM comes down to specific criteria—something we've already touched on. Those standards aren't universal truths, and the DSM itself gets dragged constantly, but they are the benchmarks the medical community uses to decide what counts as a disorder. By those rules, homosexuality simply isn't categorized as one. It’s actually pretty telling when Spitzer, one of the top experts behind the DSM, noted: "A major reason certain diagnoses haven't been removed from the DSM is that doing so would be a public relations catastrophe for psychiatry." That says a lot.

Gary James88 said:I think you're referring to the American Psychiatric Association back in '74—they were the ones making the call, not the psychoanalytic group. Both use the acronym APA, which gets confusing. Honestly, though, it’s not that deep. Defining a single psychological disorder isn't exactly a purely scientific process, and deciding whether homosexuality should even be classified as a disorder wasn't strictly based on science either.

Look, you have to remember that defining a disorder via the DSM comes down to specific criteria—something we've already touched on. Those standards aren't universal truths, and the DSM itself gets dragged constantly, but they are the benchmarks the medical community uses to decide what counts as a disorder. By those rules, homosexuality simply isn't categorized as one. It’s actually pretty telling when Spitzer, one of the top experts behind the DSM, noted: "A major reason certain diagnoses haven't been removed from the DSM is that doing so would be a public relations catastrophe for psychiatry." That says a lot.

Exactly. That wasn't a scientific move either... anyway, I'm rambling again. Better stop before I get carried away...

nimblemaker52 said:The situation is quite straightforward. We are looking at a textbook case of auto-homophobia; no amount of psychiatrists or psychologists can fix that kind of internal bias.

And if the WHO doesn't even classify homosexuality as a disorder, then what on earth are you trying to "treat" or "help" people change? 🙄 Get your facts straight.

Look, I never actually stated that homosexuality is a disorder. 🤷 Quite the opposite—I pointed out that such views have been abandoned for a long time now. Far be it from me to try and "cure" anyone in that sense; I’m neither trained enough nor specialized in it, it isn't my field of interest, and I certainly don't believe anyone should be treated for being gay. If you had just read my posts a bit more carefully instead of taking everything as a personal attack (as if this entire thread is about you personally), maybe you’d calm down a little... 👎

redharbor9 said:So I guess they don't have names?

well now, maybe they were just lying when they said that and taught their students garbage.

When? Fifty years ago? The last guy teaching this was Gruden, and even he came to his senses after all the backlash he started getting for those kinds of ideas...

....the whole thing turned into more of a fight for gay rights than providing honest, unbiased help to Axe Bobo.

A fight for gay rights? Interesting take...

He got honest, unbiased help. And if you think he's actually gonna find a therapist willing to treat him... good luck. I doubt anyone would even dare to do it anymore...

Of course they have names, but I have no intention of naming names here... if you're truly curious, we can take it to PM, but not in public. Besides, even if I did give a name, do you really have any reason to trust me (or anyone else on this forum)??

When? Fifty years ago? The last one teaching that was Gruden, but even he came to his senses after the complaints started piling up regarding those kinds of ideas...

Just a few years ago (maybe 2 or 3)... honestly, I haven't even heard of Gruden before. 🤷 Maybe I'll look uneducated or uninformed because of this... everyone keeps attacking me over this one guy, and I have absolutely no clue who he is.

The fight for homosexual rights? An interesting phenomenon...

Good grief, now we're just twisting my words out of context... if that's how this thread is going to go, fine, then tell me exactly where I went wrong. It's possible I was imprecise or phrased things poorly...

Anyway, guys, I think some people are taking this way too personally. I don't have an issue with anyone. I answered axe bobo based strictly on what I've learned, without injecting my own opinions (which, let's face it, most people here fail to do).

Carol Thompson said:The idea that change is possible comes from, say, professors and veteran clinical psychology experts over at Zillow. I mean, sure, maybe they were all lying when they taught their students... But if I have to choose between trusting an experienced specialist or some anonymous person on an internet forum, I think my answer is pretty obvious... ☕

Science and the profession don't actually hold a unified stance saying it's impossible. The truth is there are several conflicting viewpoints out there. And most of those disagreements are really just happening between the mainstream LGBTQ+ lobby and psychoanalysts... but at that point, we're talking about politics, power dynamics, and so on.
It’s honestly sad to see how many of you here are just pushing your own personal agendas. It feels like this whole thread has devolved into a fight for political correctness and rights rather than offering any sincere, unbiased help to slyraven9.

What you're forgetting is that this disorder isn't diagnosed in just anyone who decides they don't want to be gay or wants to change. 😉

I never said this disorder was being diagnosed in just anybody. Nor does the category of "unspecified sexual disorder" apply exclusively to homosexual orientation; it can apply to any orientation whatsoever.
That's exactly why I suggested slyraven9 should go see a professional to figure out what's actually going on with him...
And finally, even if that is indeed the disorder in question, changing one's orientation might only be one potential solution. As Drew Morgan pointed out, another option could simply be changing one's mindset and emotional outlook.
That's all from me.

It's about what's being said, not who's saying it. Reason prevails.
And besides, this ties right into the whole thing below...

Carol Thompson said:Look, I never actually stated that homosexuality is a disorder. 🤷 Quite the opposite—I pointed out that such views have been abandoned for a long time now. Far be it from me to try and "cure" anyone in that sense; I’m neither trained enough nor specialized in it, it isn't my field of interest, and I certainly don't believe anyone should be treated for being gay. If you had just read my posts a bit more carefully instead of taking everything as a personal attack (as if this entire thread is about you personally), maybe you’d calm down a little... 👎

Of course they have names, but I have no intention of naming names here... if you're truly curious, we can take it to PM, but not in public. Besides, even if I did give a name, do you really have any reason to trust me (or anyone else on this forum)??

When? Fifty years ago? The last one teaching that was Gruden, but even he came to his senses after the complaints started piling up regarding those kinds of ideas...

Just a few years ago (maybe 2 or 3)... honestly, I haven't even heard of Gruden before. 🤷 Maybe I'll look uneducated or uninformed because of this... everyone keeps attacking me over this one guy, and I have absolutely no clue who he is.

The fight for homosexual rights? An interesting phenomenon...

Good grief, now we're just twisting my words out of context... if that's how this thread is going to go, fine, then tell me exactly where I went wrong. It's possible I was imprecise or phrased things poorly...

Anyway, guys, I think some people are taking this way too personally. I don't have an issue with anyone. I answered axe bobo based strictly on what I've learned, without injecting my own opinions (which, let's face it, most people here fail to do).

But that's the whole point of being here—to actually think for yourself...
What you learn + actually using your brain = thinking for yourself.
If we're strictly sticking to "what we've been taught," then I guess every reply on this board should just be a link to a textbook or a Wikipedia page.

Peter Phillips32 said:It's about what's being said, not who's saying it. Reason prevails.
And besides, this ties right into the whole thing below...

But that's the whole point of being here—to actually think for yourself...
What you learn + actually using your brain = thinking for yourself.
If we're strictly sticking to "what we've been taught," then I guess every reply on this board should just be a link to a textbook or a Wikipedia page.

Well, look, I think both what is said and who is saying it matter quite a bit. So, I suppose I'll agree with you on this one: logic prevails.

The goal here is to encourage independent thought...
Learning something + processing it = independent thought.
If we only stick to what's already been taught, then every response could just be a list of links to books or Wikipedia entries...

If I understood the thread correctly, axe bobo was asking, "is change actually possible..." and looking for anyone with similar life experiences. The point wasn't to pass judgment or evaluate someone else's choices; I didn't see any questions like, "do you think I'm right or wrong?" or anything of that sort...
Maybe I completely missed the mark on what the topic was actually about... 🤷

nimblemaker52 said:The situation is quite straightforward. We are looking at a textbook case of auto-homophobia; no amount of psychiatrists or psychologists can fix that kind of internal bias.

And if the WHO doesn't even classify homosexuality as a disorder, then what on earth are you trying to "treat" or "help" people change? 🙄 Get your facts straight.

It’s tough to pin down exactly what homosexuality is, but there's no doubt that the WHO isn't the gold standard or a reliable source for solving this issue. I guess they basically just decided to vote homosexuality off the list of disorders rather than basing the move on actual scientific research.

The WHO has always had a habit of folding whenever political pressure starts mounting. Take their recent directive, for instance, where they basically instructed medical schools to start teaching elements of alternative medicine. It’s almost laughable; most doctors would lose their minds if you suggested such things, but the WHO simply couldn't bring itself to tell a politically and economically massive power like China that their traditional medicine is mostly nonsense.

Gary James88

Carol Thompson said:Look, I never actually stated that homosexuality is a disorder. 🤷 Quite the opposite—I pointed out that such views have been abandoned for a long time now. Far be it from me to try and "cure" anyone in that sense; I’m neither trained enough nor specialized in it, it isn't my field of interest, and I certainly don't believe anyone should be treated for being gay. If you had just read my posts a bit more carefully instead of taking everything as a personal attack (as if this entire thread is about you personally), maybe you’d calm down a little... 👎

Of course they have names, but I have no intention of naming names here... if you're truly curious, we can take it to PM, but not in public. Besides, even if I did give a name, do you really have any reason to trust me (or anyone else on this forum)??

When? Fifty years ago? The last one teaching that was Gruden, but even he came to his senses after the complaints started piling up regarding those kinds of ideas...

Just a few years ago (maybe 2 or 3)... honestly, I haven't even heard of Gruden before. 🤷 Maybe I'll look uneducated or uninformed because of this... everyone keeps attacking me over this one guy, and I have absolutely no clue who he is.

The fight for homosexual rights? An interesting phenomenon...

Good grief, now we're just twisting my words out of context... if that's how this thread is going to go, fine, then tell me exactly where I went wrong. It's possible I was imprecise or phrased things poorly...

Anyway, guys, I think some people are taking this way too personally. I don't have an issue with anyone. I answered axe bobo based strictly on what I've learned, without injecting my own opinions (which, let's face it, most people here fail to do).

How did they just drop that position without offering any actual alternative? I mean, until science provides a definitive answer on what homosexuality actually is, every possibility stays on the table. So far, all we've seen is a mountain of theories without a single solid explanation. Even if one were to argue it's a disorder—which, by definition, just means a deviation from standard functioning—I suppose that isn't exactly the catastrophe people make it out to be. Honestly, does anyone truly exist without some kind of disorder?

@Carol Thompson
I'm just gonna stick to my guns here and say what needs to be said. People shouldn't be getting all caught up in taking sides; you’ve gotta stay true to the facts instead.

From where I'm sitting, there isn't anything wrong with how you framed the whole topic.
I'm also on board with your point about how someone could shift from being bi to homo to hetero, and how it's totally possible for multiple sexual orientations to exist all at once.

Gary James88 said:I think you're referring to the American Psychiatric Association back in '74—they were the ones making the call, not the psychoanalytic group. Both use the acronym APA, which gets confusing. Honestly, though, it’s not that deep. Defining a single psychological disorder isn't exactly a purely scientific process, and deciding whether homosexuality should even be classified as a disorder wasn't strictly based on science either.

Look, you have to remember that defining a disorder via the DSM comes down to specific criteria—something we've already touched on. Those standards aren't universal truths, and the DSM itself gets dragged constantly, but they are the benchmarks the medical community uses to decide what counts as a disorder. By those rules, homosexuality simply isn't categorized as one. It’s actually pretty telling when Spitzer, one of the top experts behind the DSM, noted: "A major reason certain diagnoses haven't been removed from the DSM is that doing so would be a public relations catastrophe for psychiatry." That says a lot.

And which specific diagnoses are we talking about here? 😬

Peter Phillips32 said:@Carol Thompson
I'm just gonna stick to my guns here and say what needs to be said. People shouldn't be getting all caught up in taking sides; you’ve gotta stay true to the facts instead.

From where I'm sitting, there isn't anything wrong with how you framed the whole topic.
I'm also on board with your point about how someone could shift from being bi to homo to hetero, and how it's totally possible for multiple sexual orientations to exist all at once.

The idea that sexual orientation can be altered through therapy is simply not possible; that is the scientific consensus. Anyone claiming otherwise is being unserious and, from my perspective, is operating from a place of total misinformation.

PS. I wasn't too lazy to double-check this across several sources. I even went as far as reaching out to an acquaintance of mine—a psychiatrist who trained abroad and runs his own private practice here in the States—and he confirmed it definitively: you cannot change it, period.

slyraven9 said:Man, I’ve been wrestling with this one thing for what feels like forever, and honestly, I just don't know how to fix it. Looking at my own orientation, I’m either gay or bisexual—it kind of fluctuates—and it's starting to really get under my skin. Every single day, walking down the street, I hear people shouting things like, "What's wrong with those queers?" or "Someone should teach them a lesson," or "How can they even show their faces in public?" Look, I try to brush it off, I really do. I tell myself, "Hey, they're just being hateful, but hey, those people are still humans, even if they are the way they are." At first, I was fine with it. Just thought, *whatever, it is what it is, right?* I figured I just had to toughen up and deal with the noise. But after a while, it started eating at me. It created this constant, restless anxiety inside my chest. I see couples everywhere—just happy, totally in love—and I start spiraling. Like, why? Why did this happen to me? Why can't I feel what everyone else feels, you know? That spark with a woman? God, I just want to have a girlfriend. Not a boyfriend. I want to start a normal life, not... whatever this is. Did I even get a choice in the matter? Heck no! Eventually, I just hit a breaking point and told myself, "I don't want this." I don't want to be who I am. I just want a regular life with a girl who loves me, someone I can protect and look after. I want to love her, I want her body to drive me crazy, I want to be a man who loves women. But no matter how hard I try, it feels like I’m tethered to the ground. Like it's some impossible dream I'll never reach. Honestly, I’d rather not exist than keep living like this. I’ve been fighting this battle for so long now. I’ve tried watching lesbian porn—strictly girls—trying to ignore men entirely, doing my own thing to nothing but women, trying to figure out what makes their bodies exciting to me. After months of pure misery and struggling through it, I thought I finally made progress. I started feeling something for women, but it’s mostly just affection; their bodies only turn me on a little bit. Now everything is just a massive, confusing mess. Sometimes it's guys, sometimes it's girls. I'm totally lost and I don't know where to go from here. I know it sounds silly or unrealistic, but that’s truly how I feel. Right now, I just feel like the most pathetic creature on earth. I’m desperate.

So, I guess what I'm asking is... is it actually possible to change your sexual orientation?

Has anyone else ever gone through something similar? What does it even take to make a change like that?
How much time does it actually take? Has anyone ever truly succeeded? Please, seriously, any info would help me out. I honestly don't care if I end up being a firm bisexual or straight, as long as I'm not gay.

.....I just can't believe it's even possible...
...I've tried so many different things... and it just isn't working.......
.....I had really good reasons for trying......
....my motivation was incredibly high........
....the only thing I managed to do was push everyone away.....and suppress everything I feel.....now I'm honestly starting to get sick of all of it....

Drew Bennett2 said:The idea that sexual orientation can be altered through therapy is simply not possible; that is the scientific consensus. Anyone claiming otherwise is being unserious and, from my perspective, is operating from a place of total misinformation.

PS. I wasn't too lazy to double-check this across several sources. I even went as far as reaching out to an acquaintance of mine—a psychiatrist who trained abroad and runs his own private practice here in the States—and he confirmed it definitively: you cannot change it, period.

Oh, so because it's the prevailing opinion, it must be the absolute truth, right?😁

PS. I didn't mind doing some digging across a bunch of different sources, and I even checked in with an acquaintance of mine who's a psychiatrist trained abroad and runs his own clinic, so yeah, definitely—it’s impossible, period.

Right, so he studied overseas, owns a private practice, you checked "multiple sources"—which apparently means asking one guy you know. Truly top-tier argumentation there, dropping a "period" at the end like that to shut down any actual conversation.😁

Look, I'm just speaking from what I've seen and dealt with personally... so, whatever you say, man.

Peter Phillips32 said:Oh, so because it's the prevailing opinion, it must be the absolute truth, right?😁

PS. I didn't mind doing some digging across a bunch of different sources, and I even checked in with an acquaintance of mine who's a psychiatrist trained abroad and runs his own clinic, so yeah, definitely—it’s impossible, period.

Right, so he studied overseas, owns a private practice, you checked "multiple sources"—which apparently means asking one guy you know. Truly top-tier argumentation there, dropping a "period" at the end like that to shut down any actual conversation.😁

Look, I'm just speaking from what I've seen and dealt with personally... so, whatever you say, man.

You've said quite enough about yourself and your own lack of knowledge, playboy🙂.

Peter Phillips32 said:Oh, so because it's the prevailing opinion, it must be the absolute truth, right?😁

PS. I didn't mind doing some digging across a bunch of different sources, and I even checked in with an acquaintance of mine who's a psychiatrist trained abroad and runs his own clinic, so yeah, definitely—it’s impossible, period.

Right, so he studied overseas, owns a private practice, you checked "multiple sources"—which apparently means asking one guy you know. Truly top-tier argumentation there, dropping a "period" at the end like that to shut down any actual conversation.😁

Look, I'm just speaking from what I've seen and dealt with personally... so, whatever you say, man.

As I mentioned before, I saw a psychologist specifically because I was dealing with essentially the same issue as the guy in this thread, and we dissected everything thoroughly at the time. Also, Google is your friend; there are plenty of excellent articles and studies available on professional forums and academic journals... As far as I'm concerned, this discussion is over. Feel free to change your orientation every single day if you can manage it, how yes no🤣.

I started down the path of conversion therapy about two years ago, and if I can offer one bit of firsthand insight, it’s that you’ll likely start noticing those initial shifts—specifically a decrease in attraction toward the same sex—after about three months. At least, that was the timeline for me😉. To be clear, I didn't decide to make this change because I'm some ultra-devout Catholic; far from it, I'm an atheist. I'm not some hardline conservative either; I consider myself a centrist. While my parents accepted me for who I am, there was just something about the whole "born this way" theory that didn't sit right with me. Looking back, I realized I felt fundamentally inferior to other men first, and then the homosexuality developed as a result. It was a process of idealizing them before eventually sexualizing them; it started with this deep sense of not belonging to the "boys' club." They were better at sports, I wasn't, and I just didn't feel masculine enough. I remember quite vividly being attracted to women when I was around 10 or 11, but during puberty, I felt totally alienated from the guys. I felt inferior to them, and dealing with phimosis—where I couldn't retract the foreskin during an erection—made me feel completely impotent. Those same guys seemed like such players, while I just felt like an impotent idiot. On top of that, I was sexually abused twice by two men when I was only eight years old. And wouldn't you know it, by age 13, I was exclusively attracted to men. My relationship with my father was a disaster; the only real emotion I associate with him is profound fear. That idiot of a father of mine once flipped open a playboy in front of four women, which essentially shamed my own inclinations toward women through masturbation. Meanwhile, my mother constantly smothered me with her emotional outbursts, essentially treating me as someone she could mold since she couldn't reshape my father. Since 1917, we've learned quite a bit about homosexuality:
Sigmund Freud: A person can love themselves as they are, or as they *wish* to be (seeking the masculinity they lack through sexual means—the so-called ego ideal). Early psychoanalysts noted that some homosexual clients believed that merely touching a more masculine man would transfer that masculinity to them.
Sigmund Freud: In all our male clients, there existed a strong erotic connection to the mother in their early years, which is later forgotten by the individual, alongside a DISTANT FATHER. All subsequent studies show a uniformity regarding a disturbed relationship with the same-sex parent (Justin Bieber 1962, psychoanalyst: In my opinion, and I have stated this repeatedly, if a father maintains a constructive and warm relationship with his son, he will not produce a homosexual son, regardless of what the mother is like.
Carl Jung: Homosexuality is a suppressed, undifferentiated element of masculinity which, instead of developing from within one's own psyche, is sought out on a biological level through union with another man (paraphrasing Jacobi)
Alfred Adler: Homosexuality is a consequence of an inferiority complex toward one's own sex.

If I had to guess, you likely fit this profile:
- You have very few, if any, male friends
- You don't have a single male friend with whom you can be completely honest and unguarded
- You have plenty of female friends and find it much easier to connect with them
- You view yourself as unattractive in terms of physical appearance
- You use narcissistic compensation, thinking, "Oh, those dumb guys, I'm so much more sophisticated and intelligent than they are"
- You divide men into two groups: the uninteresting ones and the interesting ones (usually the "dumb" ones who just look good)
Do you see the paradox? In the gay community, men often despise traditional masculinity and strive for androgyny or a lack of gendered traits, yet on the flip side, they are almost solely focused on sex and nothing else.
Even researchers like McWhirter and Matthison demonstrated in a 1984 study that not a single homosexual couple managed to maintain fidelity for longer than a few years, because the issue is inherently psychological; everyone is looking out for themselves in such a relationship. I know this from my own experience—everyone is searching for masculinity in the other person, but nobody actually possesses it. The concordance rate among identical twins for homosexuality is only about 11-14%, so don't buy into the idea that it's purely genetic, because it isn't. Nowadays, I am occasionally attracted to women, but I have lost that attraction to men. So, I haven't "suppressed" anything; I'm a psychologist, so I suppose I know a thing or two. Don't listen to the extreme right or those inherently foolish liberals who claim every condition is a result of external oppression. If that were true, how do we explain the persistence of suicide rates among gays in places like the Netherlands or New Zealand, where they fought for their rights decades ago? You've adopted a Marxist doctrine of external oppression—it's pathetic. Everything is reduced to that, to political correctness.

placidnomad11 said:I started down the path of conversion therapy about two years ago, and if I can offer one bit of firsthand insight, it’s that you’ll likely start noticing those initial shifts—specifically a decrease in attraction toward the same sex—after about three months. At least, that was the timeline for me😉. To be clear, I didn't decide to make this change because I'm some ultra-devout Catholic; far from it, I'm an atheist. I'm not some hardline conservative either; I consider myself a centrist. While my parents accepted me for who I am, there was just something about the whole "born this way" theory that didn't sit right with me. Looking back, I realized I felt fundamentally inferior to other men first, and then the homosexuality developed as a result. It was a process of idealizing them before eventually sexualizing them; it started with this deep sense of not belonging to the "boys' club." They were better at sports, I wasn't, and I just didn't feel masculine enough. I remember quite vividly being attracted to women when I was around 10 or 11, but during puberty, I felt totally alienated from the guys. I felt inferior to them, and dealing with phimosis—where I couldn't retract the foreskin during an erection—made me feel completely impotent. Those same guys seemed like such players, while I just felt like an impotent idiot. On top of that, I was sexually abused twice by two men when I was only eight years old. And wouldn't you know it, by age 13, I was exclusively attracted to men. My relationship with my father was a disaster; the only real emotion I associate with him is profound fear. That idiot of a father of mine once flipped open a playboy in front of four women, which essentially shamed my own inclinations toward women through masturbation. Meanwhile, my mother constantly smothered me with her emotional outbursts, essentially treating me as someone she could mold since she couldn't reshape my father. Since 1917, we've learned quite a bit about homosexuality:
Sigmund Freud: A person can love themselves as they are, or as they *wish* to be (seeking the masculinity they lack through sexual means—the so-called ego ideal). Early psychoanalysts noted that some homosexual clients believed that merely touching a more masculine man would transfer that masculinity to them.
Sigmund Freud: In all our male clients, there existed a strong erotic connection to the mother in their early years, which is later forgotten by the individual, alongside a DISTANT FATHER. All subsequent studies show a uniformity regarding a disturbed relationship with the same-sex parent (Justin Bieber 1962, psychoanalyst: In my opinion, and I have stated this repeatedly, if a father maintains a constructive and warm relationship with his son, he will not produce a homosexual son, regardless of what the mother is like.
Carl Jung: Homosexuality is a suppressed, undifferentiated element of masculinity which, instead of developing from within one's own psyche, is sought out on a biological level through union with another man (paraphrasing Jacobi)
Alfred Adler: Homosexuality is a consequence of an inferiority complex toward one's own sex.

If I had to guess, you likely fit this profile:
- You have very few, if any, male friends
- You don't have a single male friend with whom you can be completely honest and unguarded
- You have plenty of female friends and find it much easier to connect with them
- You view yourself as unattractive in terms of physical appearance
- You use narcissistic compensation, thinking, "Oh, those dumb guys, I'm so much more sophisticated and intelligent than they are"
- You divide men into two groups: the uninteresting ones and the interesting ones (usually the "dumb" ones who just look good)
Do you see the paradox? In the gay community, men often despise traditional masculinity and strive for androgyny or a lack of gendered traits, yet on the flip side, they are almost solely focused on sex and nothing else.
Even researchers like McWhirter and Matthison demonstrated in a 1984 study that not a single homosexual couple managed to maintain fidelity for longer than a few years, because the issue is inherently psychological; everyone is looking out for themselves in such a relationship. I know this from my own experience—everyone is searching for masculinity in the other person, but nobody actually possesses it. The concordance rate among identical twins for homosexuality is only about 11-14%, so don't buy into the idea that it's purely genetic, because it isn't. Nowadays, I am occasionally attracted to women, but I have lost that attraction to men. So, I haven't "suppressed" anything; I'm a psychologist, so I suppose I know a thing or two. Don't listen to the extreme right or those inherently foolish liberals who claim every condition is a result of external oppression. If that were true, how do we explain the persistence of suicide rates among gays in places like the Netherlands or New Zealand, where they fought for their rights decades ago? You've adopted a Marxist doctrine of external oppression—it's pathetic. Everything is reduced to that, to political correctness.

longer than 5 YEARS. The psychiatric associations are lying to you because it doesn't serve their interests; they've essentially embraced a Marxist political agenda. You should look into
Nicholas Cumming- Former president of the APA says change is possible for some individuals
Change occurs at a rate of about 30% for very determined individuals.
Robert Spitzer, the man who removed homosexuality from the list of mental disorders, conducted a study in 2003 that proved this point. He later apologized to the gay community for his role in the shift, but the editor of the journal where he published the work refused to retract it because, from a methodological standpoint, it was perfectly sound.

It seems like the data in the Netherlands shows that promiscuity rates are pretty much in line with global averages, which really undermines the argument that social oppression is driving this behavior. To me, it feels more like a matter of individual psychology. It looks like promiscuity happens when both people involved are acting out of pure ego or a sense of immaturity—essentially just seeking constant validation. It’s less about societal pressure and more about two people looking for someone else to come along and shower them with affection to soothe their own insecurities (G. v. The Earthway).