Are restaurateurs the most important Americans for young female journalists?

restlesscrane152 said:Stop guessing numbers when we already know them—revenue is actually tanking by 50-60%. And this whole smoker vs. non-smoker ratio thing doesn't tell us squat about who’s actually walking through those doors. What if 90% of their customers smoke and only 10% don't?

That's just like telling nail salons to ditch all their female clients and saying, "Hey, why not pivot to men instead?" Then you'd have some ridiculous news segment about how "feminizing dads" means they can finally hit the salon without hearing old ladies gossiping. Total nonsense.

If the smoke bothers you, stay home.

Why aren't ABC or CBS talking about them every single day? Why isn't there daily coverage on "what's the current state of American furniture manufacturing"? Like, what did a factory worker say today? What new tax break bill is being proposed for that industry? What is a worker complaining about today, or what will the owner be venting about tomorrow? Why isn't this news?

Because it's old news! What kind of news would it be if they just repeated the exact same story for 20 years straight?

I mean, if you’re running a business and your sales are tanking, you should probably try doing something about it to boost them, I guess.

restlesscrane152 said:Stop guessing numbers when we already know them—revenue is actually tanking by 50-60%. And this whole smoker vs. non-smoker ratio thing doesn't tell us squat about who’s actually walking through those doors. What if 90% of their customers smoke and only 10% don't?

That's just like telling nail salons to ditch all their female clients and saying, "Hey, why not pivot to men instead?" Then you'd have some ridiculous news segment about how "feminizing dads" means they can finally hit the salon without hearing old ladies gossiping. Total nonsense.

If the smoke bothers you, stay home.

Why aren't ABC or CBS talking about them every single day? Why isn't there daily coverage on "what's the current state of American furniture manufacturing"? Like, what did a factory worker say today? What new tax break bill is being proposed for that industry? What is a worker complaining about today, or what will the owner be venting about tomorrow? Why isn't this news?

Because it's old news! What kind of news would it be if they just repeated the exact same story for 20 years straight?

Are you seriously suggesting that FOX or ABC spent months—like, literally months on end—covering the decline of the furniture industry? Like they were out there in the field every single day, conducting interviews with workers and owners and everything?

No way.

And if we’re going to talk about "old news," then all this pitying of struggling small business owners is also pretty old news to me. If they started airing those segments back in late 2008, why on earth are we still watching them every single day?

Maybe it's because having three or six thousand Americans who have been coasting along in jobs where they basically "chilled out while the money just trickled in" is apparently our most important priority? I guess the country will just fall apart if a few thousand pub owners go under, right?

silentridge3 said:I mean, if you’re running a business and your sales are tanking, you should probably try doing something about it to boost them, I guess.

Are you seriously suggesting that FOX or ABC spent months—like, literally months on end—covering the decline of the furniture industry? Like they were out there in the field every single day, conducting interviews with workers and owners and everything?

No way.

And if we’re going to talk about "old news," then all this pitying of struggling small business owners is also pretty old news to me. If they started airing those segments back in late 2008, why on earth are we still watching them every single day?

Maybe it's because having three or six thousand Americans who have been coasting along in jobs where they basically "chilled out while the money just trickled in" is apparently our most important priority? I guess the country will just fall apart if a few thousand pub owners go under, right?

That’s like telling a nail salon—"hey, you mostly cater to women, maybe try something to attract guys." Like I said—pure stupidity.

Are you seriously claiming that CBS or NBC spent months on end following the decline of the furniture industry? Like they were out in the field every single day interviewing workers and owners?

No way.

What kind of domestic furniture industry do we even have here anyway? 😁

And if we're talking about "old news," then pitying struggling restaurant owners is also old news to me. If they started airing those segments back in late 2008, why are we still stuck watching them every damn day..?

The whole thing is relevant because there's a proposal to scrap that specific law.

Because what's more important than 3,000 or 6,000 Americans who have steady jobs where they've basically been "coasting while the money just rolls in"? Is America going to be most harmed if a few thousand bar owners go under?

I'm guessing you're a restaurateur yourself, so you know how easy that is to say, right?

Yeah, and sure, there will be damage because revenue will drop. But whatever, it'll just get made up through taxes. If there were any God and justice in this world, those taxes would hit nothing but the non-smokers and the self-righteous moralists.

restlesscrane152 said:That’s like telling a nail salon—"hey, you mostly cater to women, maybe try something to attract guys." Like I said—pure stupidity.

Are you seriously claiming that CBS or NBC spent months on end following the decline of the furniture industry? Like they were out in the field every single day interviewing workers and owners?

No way.

What kind of domestic furniture industry do we even have here anyway? 😁

And if we're talking about "old news," then pitying struggling restaurant owners is also old news to me. If they started airing those segments back in late 2008, why are we still stuck watching them every damn day..?

The whole thing is relevant because there's a proposal to scrap that specific law.

Because what's more important than 3,000 or 6,000 Americans who have steady jobs where they've basically been "coasting while the money just rolls in"? Is America going to be most harmed if a few thousand bar owners go under?

I'm guessing you're a restaurateur yourself, so you know how easy that is to say, right?

Yeah, and sure, there will be damage because revenue will drop. But whatever, it'll just get made up through taxes. If there were any God and justice in this world, those taxes would hit nothing but the non-smokers and the self-righteous moralists.

Well, you called it "nonsense," but I think what you wrote was actually the nonsense part, if you follow me. First off, those two things aren't even the same thing, really. Second, this whole theory that bars have exclusively catered to smokers until now is just... I don't know, it feels wrong. And third, restaurant owners aren't just running strip clubs; they're running diners, ice cream parlors, actual businesses...

restlesscrane152 said:That’s like telling a nail salon—"hey, you mostly cater to women, maybe try something to attract guys." Like I said—pure stupidity.

Are you seriously claiming that CBS or NBC spent months on end following the decline of the furniture industry? Like they were out in the field every single day interviewing workers and owners?

No way.

What kind of domestic furniture industry do we even have here anyway? 😁

And if we're talking about "old news," then pitying struggling restaurant owners is also old news to me. If they started airing those segments back in late 2008, why are we still stuck watching them every damn day..?

The whole thing is relevant because there's a proposal to scrap that specific law.

Because what's more important than 3,000 or 6,000 Americans who have steady jobs where they've basically been "coasting while the money just rolls in"? Is America going to be most harmed if a few thousand bar owners go under?

I'm guessing you're a restaurateur yourself, so you know how easy that is to say, right?

Yeah, and sure, there will be damage because revenue will drop. But whatever, it'll just get made up through taxes. If there were any God and justice in this world, those taxes would hit nothing but the non-smokers and the self-righteous moralists.

Wait, are you seriously out of the loop on what they're saying on CBS and NBC?

restlesscrane152 said:That’s like telling a nail salon—"hey, you mostly cater to women, maybe try something to attract guys." Like I said—pure stupidity.

Are you seriously claiming that CBS or NBC spent months on end following the decline of the furniture industry? Like they were out in the field every single day interviewing workers and owners?

No way.

What kind of domestic furniture industry do we even have here anyway? 😁

And if we're talking about "old news," then pitying struggling restaurant owners is also old news to me. If they started airing those segments back in late 2008, why are we still stuck watching them every damn day..?

The whole thing is relevant because there's a proposal to scrap that specific law.

Because what's more important than 3,000 or 6,000 Americans who have steady jobs where they've basically been "coasting while the money just rolls in"? Is America going to be most harmed if a few thousand bar owners go under?

I'm guessing you're a restaurateur yourself, so you know how easy that is to say, right?

Yeah, and sure, there will be damage because revenue will drop. But whatever, it'll just get made up through taxes. If there were any God and justice in this world, those taxes would hit nothing but the non-smokers and the self-righteous moralists.

"A proposal to repeal" is a daily occurrence, I guess. If we go by that logic, we could sit here listening to the endless whining of hospitality workers or demands for the legalization of prostitution until the year 2080. Every single day, there's some new proposal for legalization.

restlesscrane152 said:That’s like telling a nail salon—"hey, you mostly cater to women, maybe try something to attract guys." Like I said—pure stupidity.

Are you seriously claiming that CBS or NBC spent months on end following the decline of the furniture industry? Like they were out in the field every single day interviewing workers and owners?

No way.

What kind of domestic furniture industry do we even have here anyway? 😁

And if we're talking about "old news," then pitying struggling restaurant owners is also old news to me. If they started airing those segments back in late 2008, why are we still stuck watching them every damn day..?

The whole thing is relevant because there's a proposal to scrap that specific law.

Because what's more important than 3,000 or 6,000 Americans who have steady jobs where they've basically been "coasting while the money just rolls in"? Is America going to be most harmed if a few thousand bar owners go under?

I'm guessing you're a restaurateur yourself, so you know how easy that is to say, right?

Yeah, and sure, there will be damage because revenue will drop. But whatever, it'll just get made up through taxes. If there were any God and justice in this world, those taxes would hit nothing but the non-smokers and the self-righteous moralists.

Maybe enlighten me then. I'm purely interested in the life of a coffee shop owner. You know, their incredibly difficult existence.

For Americans, local bartenders and pub owners are practically sacred figures. It’s a simple truth: every American has their therapist, and every regular has their favorite local dive bar. These spots are an oasis of peace for anyone drowning in the endless grind of daily life. You go there to mourn, you go there to celebrate, and the regulars aren't just strangers—they’re family to anyone who walks through those doors. That’s why this whole smoking ban is such a massive blow; it’s hitting right at the heart of what makes us feel connected. Even on this forum, look at the data: the most heated debates always circle back to the local pub scene and these smoking restrictions. Journalists finally seem to grasp that unbreakable bond between the neighborhood bar and the American spirit, and even the Secretary of Health has caught on. A local tavern isn't just a business; it’s a cornerstone of our cultural identity. Without those smoke-filled rooms, we’d lose more than just a habit—we’d lose the very atmosphere where so many of our greatest American literary works were penned and our most iconic poems were inspired.

Honestly, most of this is spot on—lobbyists, rookie journalists, and just that whole elitist clique vibe in American society. Plus, it’s the perfect excuse to take a swing at the current administration and that minister nobody likes right now; that's basically the biggest headline out there. I mean, what else would they put on the news? A bunch of snobs and political drama? It's a match made in heaven.

ABC and CBS News.
Honestly, it’s the absolute bottom of the barrel when it comes to journalism.
Their big "breaking news" highlight? A special report on Dickinson buying some glittery thongs and some nonsense about B-list actresses.

silentridge3 said:Well, you called it "nonsense," but I think what you wrote was actually the nonsense part, if you follow me. First off, those two things aren't even the same thing, really. Second, this whole theory that bars have exclusively catered to smokers until now is just... I don't know, it feels wrong. And third, restaurant owners aren't just running strip clubs; they're running diners, ice cream parlors, actual businesses...

Wait, are you seriously out of the loop on what they're saying on CBS and NBC?

"A proposal to repeal" is a daily occurrence, I guess. If we go by that logic, we could sit here listening to the endless whining of hospitality workers or demands for the legalization of prostitution until the year 2080. Every single day, there's some new proposal for legalization.

Maybe enlighten me then. I'm purely interested in the life of a coffee shop owner. You know, their incredibly difficult existence.

Then enlighten me—what's the actual difference? Or is the difference just that it's obvious women mostly walk into salons, while it's not "obvious" that most cafe patrons are smokers?

Second, this theory that cafes have only hosted smokers until now is total nonsense.

Not exclusively, sure. But if their revenue is tanking by 50-60%, then smokers definitely aren't some tiny minority of their customers.

What, haven't you seen it on NBC or USA Network?

Nope. Not really. But hey, giving them the benefit of the doubt—I don't watch them, so I wouldn't know.

Is the "proposal to repeal" a daily topic? By that logic, we could listen to restaurant owners' fairy tales every single day until 2080. Or requests to legalize prostitution. That proposal is a daily thing too.

I don't know which news site mentioned it, but one said the law might be scrapped due to the crisis—so yeah, the topic is current.

Enlighten me. I'm only interested in hearing from cafe owners. And their tragic little lives.

So you're not a restaurant owner?

Patrick Diaz2 said:Quincy:

silentridge3 As stated by: I find myself watching the news on Fox and NBC every single day. I find myself quite perplexed by the fact that this occurs on a daily basis. Breaking news just hit the wires regarding some major updates that could significantly impact both smokers and those working in the hospitality industry.Yesterday, we saw a headline claiming "someone said something regarding the smoking ban" (which was apparently vital enough to lead the news cycle), and today, we have "someone responding to that statement" (which clearly requires immediate, urgent broadcasting). Tomorrow, I fully expect some local restaurant owner to lodge a complaint about the regulations (providing us with the perfect opportunity for a televised segment), and this cycle will simply continue indefinitely. In America, roughly 30% of the population smokes, while the remaining 70% does not. Additionally, there are approximately 20,000 hospitality business owners nationwide, encompassing everything from small local cafes to larger establishments. Let’s consider a scenario where overall consumer spending takes a sudden 30% dive. Imagine if 30% of our local coffee shops and eateries were forced to shutter their doors permanently. We would be looking at roughly 6,000 small business owners—individuals who are likely more financially stable than most teachers or office workers, given they often own property and drive nice cars—having to lock up for good. These 6,000 entrepreneurs wouldn't be able to lure customers back in simply by allowing smoking inside; there just isn't a way to fix that kind of economic hit with such a minor concession. On the other hand, we are seeing people across America losing their jobs on a daily basis. Local furniture manufacturers are folding, the textile industry is absolutely struggling to stay afloat, and there are roughly 50,000 workers in the shipyards and steel mills who are either facing imminent layoffs or are already out on the street. I find myself wondering why networks like Fox and NBC don't address these matters on a daily basis. Why isn't there constant coverage regarding the current state of American furniture manufacturing? It seems quite strange that we don't hear daily updates on what a factory worker might be saying about their shifts, or perhaps discussions regarding proposed legislation aimed at providing tax incentives to that specific industry. Where is the reporting on the immediate grievances of a plant employee, or the subsequent complaints an owner might lodge tomorrow? I truly struggle to understand why such vital topics remain so quiet in our media landscape. Is it truly just because they've decided to prioritize young, untalented journalists—and the exact same type of editors who hire them? The most straightforward option would be to simply head over to a local brewery nearby.And there you go, just hanging out over a free cup of coffee. I am currently planning to interview a local brewery owner.Can you honestly imagine making a feature story out of his "tragic struggle"? It’s almost absurd. At the exact same moment that a hundred factory workers are heading home for the last time—still waiting on their final six paychecks—you have some restaurant owner standing there with tears in his eyes, playing the victim. This is the same guy who, instead of investing in proper ventilation for his business, decided to drop all that cash on beachfront property and a luxury car. It’s truly something else. It truly feels as though my entire world has been upended recently, as I struggle to navigate the immense challenges brought on by the recent ban on smoking. It is quite difficult to put into words the profound sense of loss one feels when such a deeply ingrained daily ritual is suddenly stripped away. Every morning used to begin with that quiet, contemplative moment, but now, there is only a lingering sense of restlessness and an empty space where that comfort once resided. I find myself reflecting on how much our small habits shape our very existence, and losing this one has made my daily routine feel strangely hollow and significantly more taxing than I ever anticipated....? What even qualifies as "news" or a "daily report" anymore? It’s just one endless loop of legislation regarding smoking bans, followed by constant campaign ads for Tom Bradley, then more ads for Donald Trump, and then some fluff about Kim Kardashian... only to circle right back to smoking regulations and restaurant owners. It truly feels like we're just going in circles.

Why on earth would you even bother watching that kind of news?

But look, if you find yourself stuck watching them anyway, and you're starting to wonder why things have turned out this way, the answer is actually quite simple.
To be perfectly honest, producing a legitimate news segment or a deep-dive article on sectors like shipbuilding or the timber industry requires a significant amount of rigorous research, heavy lifting, and genuine intellectual effort. It’s much easier to simply wander into a local coffee shop. There, you can easily find attractive baristas to interview or a group of people sitting in a corner to grab a quick quote from. Plus, the subject matter is instantly relatable to everyone. You don't have to spend time explaining the complexities of lumber quality, wood seasoning processes, or the intricate web of subcontractors and suppliers within a shipyard. You don't even have to explain who the primary buyers are. Consequently, we see a constant trivialization of complex issues. This media tendency toward oversimplification leads to the dilution of public discourse, which ultimately results in the erosion of critical thinking among the general public.

In short, they are simply pacifying the masses. And if there is one thing about the general public, it’s that they tend to be quite content with that status quo—in fact, they often demand more of it. They have a certain appetite for being kept in the dark; they have no desire to be burdened by any truly "heavy" or complex topics.
That is precisely why things have turned out that way for you.

Exactly—when it comes to the timber industry, you can't just breeze through it. You can't just name a CEO, interview two workers, and grab a union rep... that only works when you're talking about the service industry. ☕

restlesscrane152 I guess what they're saying is...
I mean, isn't it just kind of obvious, I guess, that most of the people hanging out in coffee shops are actually just smokers? It feels like you can barely find a quiet corner without someone blowing a cloud of smoke right in your direction, though maybe I'm just being cynical about it.
I mean, I wouldn't say they're the *only* reason, but if we're looking at a massive 50 to 60 percent drop in revenue, then I guess it’s pretty safe to assume that smokers aren't exactly some tiny, insignificant minority of their customer base. It just seems like such an obvious correlation when you look at those kinds of numbers, though maybe I'm oversimplifying things.

First off, I guess if you really look at the numbers, smokers are actually a bit of a minority in our society these days; most people out there aren't even touching a cigarette anymore.
I mean, look, if you ask me, restaurateurs really ought to be fighting harder to cater to the majority—you know, the non-smokers. It honestly seems incredibly shortsighted that, up until now, so many establishments have been essentially "hosting" a tiny minority of smokers in these thick, hazy rooms, while the actual majority just gets turned away or forced to sit there inhaling secondhand smoke they never asked for in the first place. I guess it’s just one of those things where common sense wasn't exactly the priority, maybe.

I guess you could say this whole shift in the crowd isn't actually a bad thing for folks running the local bars and eateries. If anything, it’s kind of a blessing in disguise, maybe? It basically gives them a chance to pivot from catering to that small, gritty minority—you know, the ones who spend half their night hovering around an ashtray with a lukewarm coffee—and actually start focusing on the much larger crowd that just wants to drink without having to dodge a cloud of smoke every five seconds.

I mean, if you look at the timing, that whole smoking ban thing just happened to hit right when the economy was absolutely cratering, which I guess makes it easy to point fingers. People like to blame the ban for everything, but honestly, the massive slump in sales for furniture, appliances, cars, or even vacations... that wasn't exactly caused by people not being allowed to light up indoors. It’s not like only smokers were out there buying refrigerators and washing machines, right? And the struggle for restaurants and bars—well, a huge chunk of that misery was driven by the financial crisis itself. Even without that smoking ban, things probably would have tanked anyway, I suppose.

I guess I should probably start by saying that whenever someone decides to drop a Quote like that, it really just sets a certain tone for the whole conversation, doesn't it? It’s funny, in a way, how we all cling to these little snippets of text as if they're some kind of absolute truth or a definitive anchor, though maybe I'm just being overly cynical about the whole thing, which, let's be honest, is probably my default setting at this point. It feels like we're all just circling around these ideas, trying to find some sort of footing, but then someone pulls a move like this and suddenly the floor feels a bit more slippery than it did a moment ago, I suppose.

restlesscrane152 said:Then enlighten me—what's the actual difference? Or is the difference just that it's obvious women mostly walk into salons, while it's not "obvious" that most cafe patrons are smokers?

Second, this theory that cafes have only hosted smokers until now is total nonsense.

Not exclusively, sure. But if their revenue is tanking by 50-60%, then smokers definitely aren't some tiny minority of their customers.

What, haven't you seen it on NBC or USA Network?

Nope. Not really. But hey, giving them the benefit of the doubt—I don't watch them, so I wouldn't know.

Is the "proposal to repeal" a daily topic? By that logic, we could listen to restaurant owners' fairy tales every single day until 2080. Or requests to legalize prostitution. That proposal is a daily thing too.

I don't know which news site mentioned it, but one said the law might be scrapped due to the crisis—so yeah, the topic is current.

Enlighten me. I'm only interested in hearing from cafe owners. And their tragic little lives.

So you're not a restaurant owner?

What a truly fascinating "breaking news" story we have here. It seems like ever since someone brought it up, we’re being force-fed these endless little dramas about local restaurant owners on every major nightly news broadcast, day in and day out. It’s just one constant stream of trivial nonsense being treated like front-page headlines on networks like Fox, and honestly, I guess it feels a bit ridiculous when you consider that there are actually significant, world-altering events happening everywhere else at the same time.

restlesscrane152 said:Then enlighten me—what's the actual difference? Or is the difference just that it's obvious women mostly walk into salons, while it's not "obvious" that most cafe patrons are smokers?

Second, this theory that cafes have only hosted smokers until now is total nonsense.

Not exclusively, sure. But if their revenue is tanking by 50-60%, then smokers definitely aren't some tiny minority of their customers.

What, haven't you seen it on NBC or USA Network?

Nope. Not really. But hey, giving them the benefit of the doubt—I don't watch them, so I wouldn't know.

Is the "proposal to repeal" a daily topic? By that logic, we could listen to restaurant owners' fairy tales every single day until 2080. Or requests to legalize prostitution. That proposal is a daily thing too.

I don't know which news site mentioned it, but one said the law might be scrapped due to the crisis—so yeah, the topic is current.

Enlighten me. I'm only interested in hearing from cafe owners. And their tragic little lives.

So you're not a restaurant owner?

What exactly do you mean when you throw around a term like "hospitality professional"? I guess it’s one of those labels that people toss around like they mean something specific, but honestly, it feels a bit nebulous, doesn't it? Maybe you're talking about the person behind the bar at a local pub in Chicago, someone just trying to get through a shift, or maybe you mean the high-end restaurateurs who run these massive, polished establishments in Manhattan. It could be anyone from a small-town diner owner to some corporate executive managing a hotel chain like Marriott. It’s a broad spectrum, really—it might imply a certain level of grace and service, or it might just be a fancy way of describing someone who works in the service industry, which, let’s face it, can be pretty soul-crushing sometimes. I suppose there's a difference between someone who truly lives for the art of hosting and someone who is just punching a clock, but I don't know, the line seems pretty blurry to me.

I mean, what kind of guy actually goes through the whole grind of culinary school just to come out the other side as a chef, a server, a pastry specialist, or some kind of high-end hotel manager? It’s a lot, I guess. You spend all those years mastering the art of the perfect souffle or learning how to balance a tray while navigating a crowded dining room in downtown Chicago, and then you realize that the industry is basically just one giant, beautiful, exhausting whirlwind. Maybe it's the passion for the craft, or maybe people just have a weirdly high tolerance for standing on their feet for twelve hours straight, but I can't help but wonder what drives someone to commit to that specific life path.

Or maybe you’re thinking about what I mean by a "hospitality professional"—you know, an American? Because, honestly, in the States, everyone seems to be in the service industry in some capacity. It feels like every single American is born with a server's degree already tucked in their pocket, and then, of course, you have all those mobsters or pro athletes who suddenly become "small business owners," which is just a fancy way of saying they own a local bar or a diner. So, if I’m an American, I guess that technically makes me a hospitality professional too, if we're going by that logic.

Look, if what I was trying to get at—and I guess I was just trying to point out that since I’m not some professionally trained hospitality expert, you know, like someone who went to culinary school or spent years grinding as a server or a pastry chef—was basically just a roundabout way of saying, "then maybe just keep quiet because you clearly have no clue how grueling life actually is for a small business owner running a local pub," then I honestly think I owe you an explanation. I mean, maybe I didn't phrase it right, but I was really just attempting to say that unless you've lived the struggle of owning a dive bar or a neighborhood diner, you probably don't grasp the sheer weight of it all.

I can't help but wonder, I really do, just how much schooling someone actually needs to go through to pull off owning a bar—you know, to actually be the one calling the shots behind the counter instead of just scrubbing floors. I guess it’s one of those things where you wonder if there's some formal degree involved or if it’s all just learned on the fly through trial and error, which seems more likely, honestly. And then there's the grind of it all... I mean, how many hours is this person actually pulling in every single day? It’s probably exhausting, and I can't help but think about the physical toll, like, does their back just absolutely ache by the end of a shift from standing around all night? Maybe. Plus, you have to consider the whole life balance thing; like, is there even enough left over at the end of the month to buy schoolbooks for the kids, or is everything just swallowed up by overhead? And where do they even find the money for extra supplies or stuff for homework? It makes me wonder if they're just scraping by, maybe taking the bus or the subway to get to work every morning just to save a few bucks. It's a lot to juggle, I suppose.

I mean, the real crux of the matter here is how we’re comparing this supposed "hard life" to what everyone else is actually going through. There are so many people out there—way more than just the restaurant owners, I'd say, probably ten times as many—who are feeling the crushing weight of this crisis every single day, struggling just to scrape together enough cash for school supplies or even a bus pass, yet you never see Fox or any other major network putting them front and center in the nightly news cycle...

Let’s be realistic here; alongside the smoking, we have to acknowledge the sheer incompetence displayed by major networks like CNN. For days, months, even years... one pundit says this, another says that, and some commentator fires back with a response... It’s an endless cycle. Yet, the moment there's a slight hiccup, these press freedom organizations jump in. They can fight amongst themselves all they want, but the second anyone criticizes them, it's suddenly an attack on democracy or freedom of speech, blah blah blah.
99% of these people have as much to do with actual journalism as a toddler does with rocket science.

So, just so nobody is left out of the loop here—I caught a segment on Fox yesterday, and apparently, Katie Couric has found herself a new boyfriend.

Go ahead and try to guess what he does for a living. If you're feeling totally stumped, I suppose I could offer a tiny bit of help:

Katie Couric's new guy's profession: in _ _ _ _ _ _ _ lj

silentridge3 said:

restlesscrane152 I guess what they're saying is...
I mean, isn't it just kind of obvious, I guess, that most of the people hanging out in coffee shops are actually just smokers? It feels like you can barely find a quiet corner without someone blowing a cloud of smoke right in your direction, though maybe I'm just being cynical about it.
I mean, I wouldn't say they're the *only* reason, but if we're looking at a massive 50 to 60 percent drop in revenue, then I guess it’s pretty safe to assume that smokers aren't exactly some tiny, insignificant minority of their customer base. It just seems like such an obvious correlation when you look at those kinds of numbers, though maybe I'm oversimplifying things.

First off, I guess if you really look at the numbers, smokers are actually a bit of a minority in our society these days; most people out there aren't even touching a cigarette anymore.
I mean, look, if you ask me, restaurateurs really ought to be fighting harder to cater to the majority—you know, the non-smokers. It honestly seems incredibly shortsighted that, up until now, so many establishments have been essentially "hosting" a tiny minority of smokers in these thick, hazy rooms, while the actual majority just gets turned away or forced to sit there inhaling secondhand smoke they never asked for in the first place. I guess it’s just one of those things where common sense wasn't exactly the priority, maybe.

I guess you could say this whole shift in the crowd isn't actually a bad thing for folks running the local bars and eateries. If anything, it’s kind of a blessing in disguise, maybe? It basically gives them a chance to pivot from catering to that small, gritty minority—you know, the ones who spend half their night hovering around an ashtray with a lukewarm coffee—and actually start focusing on the much larger crowd that just wants to drink without having to dodge a cloud of smoke every five seconds.

I mean, if you look at the timing, that whole smoking ban thing just happened to hit right when the economy was absolutely cratering, which I guess makes it easy to point fingers. People like to blame the ban for everything, but honestly, the massive slump in sales for furniture, appliances, cars, or even vacations... that wasn't exactly caused by people not being allowed to light up indoors. It’s not like only smokers were out there buying refrigerators and washing machines, right? And the struggle for restaurants and bars—well, a huge chunk of that misery was driven by the financial crisis itself. Even without that smoking ban, things probably would have tanked anyway, I suppose.

I guess I should probably start by saying that whenever someone decides to drop a Quote like that, it really just sets a certain tone for the whole conversation, doesn't it? It’s funny, in a way, how we all cling to these little snippets of text as if they're some kind of absolute truth or a definitive anchor, though maybe I'm just being overly cynical about the whole thing, which, let's be honest, is probably my default setting at this point. It feels like we're all just circling around these ideas, trying to find some sort of footing, but then someone pulls a move like this and suddenly the floor feels a bit more slippery than it did a moment ago, I suppose.

What a truly fascinating "breaking news" story we have here. It seems like ever since someone brought it up, we’re being force-fed these endless little dramas about local restaurant owners on every major nightly news broadcast, day in and day out. It’s just one constant stream of trivial nonsense being treated like front-page headlines on networks like Fox, and honestly, I guess it feels a bit ridiculous when you consider that there are actually significant, world-altering events happening everywhere else at the same time.

What exactly do you mean when you throw around a term like "hospitality professional"? I guess it’s one of those labels that people toss around like they mean something specific, but honestly, it feels a bit nebulous, doesn't it? Maybe you're talking about the person behind the bar at a local pub in Chicago, someone just trying to get through a shift, or maybe you mean the high-end restaurateurs who run these massive, polished establishments in Manhattan. It could be anyone from a small-town diner owner to some corporate executive managing a hotel chain like Marriott. It’s a broad spectrum, really—it might imply a certain level of grace and service, or it might just be a fancy way of describing someone who works in the service industry, which, let’s face it, can be pretty soul-crushing sometimes. I suppose there's a difference between someone who truly lives for the art of hosting and someone who is just punching a clock, but I don't know, the line seems pretty blurry to me.

I mean, what kind of guy actually goes through the whole grind of culinary school just to come out the other side as a chef, a server, a pastry specialist, or some kind of high-end hotel manager? It’s a lot, I guess. You spend all those years mastering the art of the perfect souffle or learning how to balance a tray while navigating a crowded dining room in downtown Chicago, and then you realize that the industry is basically just one giant, beautiful, exhausting whirlwind. Maybe it's the passion for the craft, or maybe people just have a weirdly high tolerance for standing on their feet for twelve hours straight, but I can't help but wonder what drives someone to commit to that specific life path.

Or maybe you’re thinking about what I mean by a "hospitality professional"—you know, an American? Because, honestly, in the States, everyone seems to be in the service industry in some capacity. It feels like every single American is born with a server's degree already tucked in their pocket, and then, of course, you have all those mobsters or pro athletes who suddenly become "small business owners," which is just a fancy way of saying they own a local bar or a diner. So, if I’m an American, I guess that technically makes me a hospitality professional too, if we're going by that logic.

Look, if what I was trying to get at—and I guess I was just trying to point out that since I’m not some professionally trained hospitality expert, you know, like someone who went to culinary school or spent years grinding as a server or a pastry chef—was basically just a roundabout way of saying, "then maybe just keep quiet because you clearly have no clue how grueling life actually is for a small business owner running a local pub," then I honestly think I owe you an explanation. I mean, maybe I didn't phrase it right, but I was really just attempting to say that unless you've lived the struggle of owning a dive bar or a neighborhood diner, you probably don't grasp the sheer weight of it all.

I can't help but wonder, I really do, just how much schooling someone actually needs to go through to pull off owning a bar—you know, to actually be the one calling the shots behind the counter instead of just scrubbing floors. I guess it’s one of those things where you wonder if there's some formal degree involved or if it’s all just learned on the fly through trial and error, which seems more likely, honestly. And then there's the grind of it all... I mean, how many hours is this person actually pulling in every single day? It’s probably exhausting, and I can't help but think about the physical toll, like, does their back just absolutely ache by the end of a shift from standing around all night? Maybe. Plus, you have to consider the whole life balance thing; like, is there even enough left over at the end of the month to buy schoolbooks for the kids, or is everything just swallowed up by overhead? And where do they even find the money for extra supplies or stuff for homework? It makes me wonder if they're just scraping by, maybe taking the bus or the subway to get to work every morning just to save a few bucks. It's a lot to juggle, I suppose.

I mean, the real crux of the matter here is how we’re comparing this supposed "hard life" to what everyone else is actually going through. There are so many people out there—way more than just the restaurant owners, I'd say, probably ten times as many—who are feeling the crushing weight of this crisis every single day, struggling just to scrape together enough cash for school supplies or even a bus pass, yet you never see Fox or any other major network putting them front and center in the nightly news cycle...

Already gave you my take on this—just because non-smokers are the majority doesn't mean they're the majority in bars. If you just look at the drop in revenue, it's obvious smokers are still huge clients for owners, regardless of what the general population does.

Shifting the clientele isn't bad for business. In fact, it lets them pivot from the minority (who smoke their cigarettes while sipping coffee) to the majority (who just drink).

Pivot? You mean forces them to? If they wanted to, they could've pivoted to non-smokers without a ban, but for some reason, that's clearly not profitable, seeing as how much revenue is tanking right now. Hmm...

By the way: the "smoking ban" just happened to hit at the same time as the recession. That massive crash in furniture sales, appliances, cars, travel, etc., wasn't caused by the smoking ban. People weren't just smokers when they stopped buying appliances. The dip in bar revenue is largely due to the economy. Even without the "smoking ban," business would have tanked.

True, but the ban made things even worse.

And if you're implying that since I'm not an owner in the strict sense (like a hotelier, waiter, chef, or baker) that I should shut up because I don't know how hard life is for a bar owner, then please, explain yourself.

I assumed that since you're so quick to judge whether someone's job is hard or easy, you're obviously in the industry yourself and for some weird reason, it bugs you that you live "so well."

And who's an owner and who isn't is pretty simple—if you work in hospitality, you're in it. If you don't, you're not.

So, asking one more time—are you actually in the industry, which is why you think you can judge the job?

The key here is comparing that "hard life" to the hard lives of everyone else. Those who are also feeling the weight of the recession, who can barely afford school books or a bus pass—there are ten times more of them than there are bar owners, yet Fox or local news doesn't feature them in the headlines every single day...

Oh, awesome. If we aren't all winning, then everyone should just suffer and nobody gets a pass.

Kevin Gonzalez79 said:And who exactly is forcing you to watch Fox? If you want actual substance, read the Wall Street Journal or Bloomberg Businessweek, or just catch Business Insider on CBS... It's obvious that this specific crowd is what the advertisers are chasing.

I don't think it's about what people want at all. It feels more like editors just don't know what they're doing, and then the reporters follow suit by being totally inefficient.
If anything, people would actually care about stories regarding the working class, but those just aren't there. I guess it makes you wonder who's really pulling the strings. Is the audience driving the news, or is the news just feeding the audience?
Maybe it's just media ego, where outlets team up with big brands to basically sell us a bunch of nonsense.
Still, I suppose you've got a point: Fox is pretty terrible TV.

restlesscrane152 said:Already gave you my take on this—just because non-smokers are the majority doesn't mean they're the majority in bars. If you just look at the drop in revenue, it's obvious smokers are still huge clients for owners, regardless of what the general population does.

Shifting the clientele isn't bad for business. In fact, it lets them pivot from the minority (who smoke their cigarettes while sipping coffee) to the majority (who just drink).

Pivot? You mean forces them to? If they wanted to, they could've pivoted to non-smokers without a ban, but for some reason, that's clearly not profitable, seeing as how much revenue is tanking right now. Hmm...

By the way: the "smoking ban" just happened to hit at the same time as the recession. That massive crash in furniture sales, appliances, cars, travel, etc., wasn't caused by the smoking ban. People weren't just smokers when they stopped buying appliances. The dip in bar revenue is largely due to the economy. Even without the "smoking ban," business would have tanked.

True, but the ban made things even worse.

And if you're implying that since I'm not an owner in the strict sense (like a hotelier, waiter, chef, or baker) that I should shut up because I don't know how hard life is for a bar owner, then please, explain yourself.

I assumed that since you're so quick to judge whether someone's job is hard or easy, you're obviously in the industry yourself and for some weird reason, it bugs you that you live "so well."

And who's an owner and who isn't is pretty simple—if you work in hospitality, you're in it. If you don't, you're not.

So, asking one more time—are you actually in the industry, which is why you think you can judge the job?

The key here is comparing that "hard life" to the hard lives of everyone else. Those who are also feeling the weight of the recession, who can barely afford school books or a bus pass—there are ten times more of them than there are bar owners, yet Fox or local news doesn't feature them in the headlines every single day...

Oh, awesome. If we aren't all winning, then everyone should just suffer and nobody gets a pass.

Do you even grasp what this thread is actually about?

The point isn't whether 5,000 people in America should be struggling because their little coffee shops are seeing a dip in foot traffic—not that those folks are any more important than the other 330 million Americans dealing with their own stuff. The whole issue is why these specific 5,000 people are suddenly the most vital subjects for the news media, why their minor inconveniences are framed as national tragedies, and why we have to see them plastered all over the front page of every news broadcast every single day.

I mean, if 50,000 people are out of work entirely, while 5,000 just have slightly lower margins and are weighing whether to close up shop, I guess I’d much rather spend my time hearing some well-founded grievances from one of those 50,000 unemployed souls, instead of listening to some boutique cafe owner complaining while sipping a latte in front of an "ambitious reporter."

James Nguyen13 said:It feels like there are way too many bars and clubs popping up all over America lately. I honestly think people could stand to divert some of that capital into other types of ventures. That’s why I actually think this move to ban smoking in public is a step in the right direction.

I mean, where is the crowd that doesn't have a steady job supposed to hang out from 9 to 5?

silentridge3 said:Do you even grasp what this thread is actually about?

The point isn't whether 5,000 people in America should be struggling because their little coffee shops are seeing a dip in foot traffic—not that those folks are any more important than the other 330 million Americans dealing with their own stuff. The whole issue is why these specific 5,000 people are suddenly the most vital subjects for the news media, why their minor inconveniences are framed as national tragedies, and why we have to see them plastered all over the front page of every news broadcast every single day.

I mean, if 50,000 people are out of work entirely, while 5,000 just have slightly lower margins and are weighing whether to close up shop, I guess I’d much rather spend my time hearing some well-founded grievances from one of those 50,000 unemployed souls, instead of listening to some boutique cafe owner complaining while sipping a latte in front of an "ambitious reporter."

The issue with this "ambitious" reporter, her crew, and their editor is that they basically grew up in a bubble. They probably don't even realize there's a massive steel mill in Sioux Falls, or a timber plant tucked away in the Appalachian Mountains—let alone that actual people are working those jobs and facing layoffs.
This "young and hungry" journalist has spent her whole life hanging out at clubs and dive bars, so when she's told to go file a story, she just sticks to her own tiny, crowded little world.
Pretty soon she'll probably be reporting on trance DJs and strip club owners since their business is slowing down too, I guess.

Morgan Rodriguez57 said:I mean, where is the crowd that doesn't have a steady job supposed to hang out from 9 to 5?

I guess they might go on a trip? Maybe take a walk? Read a book? Or actually do something productive?

let me refuel here

restlesscrane152 said:Already gave you my take on this—just because non-smokers are the majority doesn't mean they're the majority in bars. If you just look at the drop in revenue, it's obvious smokers are still huge clients for owners, regardless of what the general population does.

Shifting the clientele isn't bad for business. In fact, it lets them pivot from the minority (who smoke their cigarettes while sipping coffee) to the majority (who just drink).

Pivot? You mean forces them to? If they wanted to, they could've pivoted to non-smokers without a ban, but for some reason, that's clearly not profitable, seeing as how much revenue is tanking right now. Hmm...

By the way: the "smoking ban" just happened to hit at the same time as the recession. That massive crash in furniture sales, appliances, cars, travel, etc., wasn't caused by the smoking ban. People weren't just smokers when they stopped buying appliances. The dip in bar revenue is largely due to the economy. Even without the "smoking ban," business would have tanked.

True, but the ban made things even worse.

And if you're implying that since I'm not an owner in the strict sense (like a hotelier, waiter, chef, or baker) that I should shut up because I don't know how hard life is for a bar owner, then please, explain yourself.

I assumed that since you're so quick to judge whether someone's job is hard or easy, you're obviously in the industry yourself and for some weird reason, it bugs you that you live "so well."

And who's an owner and who isn't is pretty simple—if you work in hospitality, you're in it. If you don't, you're not.

So, asking one more time—are you actually in the industry, which is why you think you can judge the job?

The key here is comparing that "hard life" to the hard lives of everyone else. Those who are also feeling the weight of the recession, who can barely afford school books or a bus pass—there are ten times more of them than there are bar owners, yet Fox or local news doesn't feature them in the headlines every single day...

Oh, awesome. If we aren't all winning, then everyone should just suffer and nobody gets a pass.

obviously you can judge a profession.

You can basically split all jobs into two camps.

1. The producers.
Doesn't matter if it’s wheat, software, specialized knowledge, car parts, or raw materials like timber.

2. Everyone else.
The restaurant owners, bankers, politicians, retail workers... you get the idea.

Group 1 actually builds things, while carrying the weight of Group 2 and the entire country on their backs.
And personally, I care way more about, say, a furniture factory with 100 employees going under than I do about 6,000 people working in the service industry.

Because once the smoke clears, Group 1 is what actually provides real value to the nation and its people... whereas Group 2 mostly just exists because automation has made manufacturing require fewer and fewer hands.

Anthony Anderson91 said:The issue with this "ambitious" reporter, her crew, and their editor is that they basically grew up in a bubble. They probably don't even realize there's a massive steel mill in Sioux Falls, or a timber plant tucked away in the Appalachian Mountains—let alone that actual people are working those jobs and facing layoffs.
This "young and hungry" journalist has spent her whole life hanging out at clubs and dive bars, so when she's told to go file a story, she just sticks to her own tiny, crowded little world.
Pretty soon she'll probably be reporting on trance DJs and strip club owners since their business is slowing down too, I guess.

Exactly.

I guess I'd throw another factor into the mix, too. Some of these journalists are heavy smokers, and it absolutely kills them that they can't just grab a coffee and have a smoke in their favorite neighborhood pub. So, they end up terrorizing the viewers and readers every single day over their own personal inconveniences...

..and then they frame the whole thing as this massive economic crisis for the National Restaurant Association... As if our entire national economy depends on a few thousand "hospitality workers" (you know, the ones who don't know how to do anything else besides serve coffee to smokers).

silentridge3 said:Exactly.

I guess I'd throw another factor into the mix, too. Some of these journalists are heavy smokers, and it absolutely kills them that they can't just grab a coffee and have a smoke in their favorite neighborhood pub. So, they end up terrorizing the viewers and readers every single day over their own personal inconveniences...

..and then they frame the whole thing as this massive economic crisis for the National Restaurant Association... As if our entire national economy depends on a few thousand "hospitality workers" (you know, the ones who don't know how to do anything else besides serve coffee to smokers).

Restaurant owners aren't going to be the ones jumpstarting the US economy, but if we see a significant drop in the number of establishments, the local government systems that rely on taxing these businesses based on their square footage are going to start crumbling fast.
People get what they want and what they can afford; most folks still have enough cash for a cup of coffee, though you certainly can't say the same for lobster or a high-end steak.
Why don't you try jumpstarting the economy yourself, or at least fix up your own business? Then maybe we'll all actually be better off.