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Is the IMF selling out to China? Is the dollar losing its global dominance?

Started by Harold Robinson2 · · 👁 4 views · 18 replies

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Participants Harold Robinson2dustytrucker51Nicole Barrett76Lisa Walker31Ronald Rogers27Emily Clark6hollowhawk412Nancy Wood6Frank Gonzalez13George Grant12Hannah White2Angela Collins2
Harold Robinson2 Harold Robinson2 NewcomerOP
2 messages
joined Aug 2009
#1 ·
So, besides China, Russia and Brazil all stepped up with $10 billion each to buy those IMF bonds. That should pretty much wrap up the first $70 billion offering. I guess China, Russia, and Brazil are just trying to push back against the dollar's dominance and maybe grab some more weight in the global economy.

The Fed is making some big moves. I guess they’re looking at those inflation numbers again. It feels like everything is shifting so fast lately. Maybe the economy is finally cooling down, or maybe we're just seeing more volatility. Hard to say for sure. Just watching the markets closely. The IMF's recent announcement about issuing bonds for the first time in its 60-year history basically flew under the radar of the major news outlets. I guess it's pretty obvious why. According to their own update, they're making a desperate play to scrape together cash that everyone promised months ago but nobody actually sent. They're aiming for $500 billion by using bonds to recapitalize themselves based on market principles—kind of like how a country would do it. It seems like ever since this crisis kicked off, everyone's been passing the buck, leaving this dying IMF to deal with the massive funding needs of struggling global economies. But, honestly, hardly anyone has actually coughed up the money they pledged. So, this move makes sense, I suppose. Instead of waiting on those usual membership dues, they're just heading straight to the open markets to find people who will actually pay up.

They aren't missing, honestly. A hierarchy formed almost immediately, with the developing economies—that BRIC group you should probably keep an eye on since they'll be huge in the coming years—taking the lead. This whole situation pretty much proves that. China, Russia, and Brazil are already eyeing those $70 billion in notes from the bond sale. I guess China would grab about $50 billion of that, given their financial weight, while Russia and Brazil might start a bit smaller, maybe $10 billion each. These IMF debtors would have five years to pay it back. India and Mexico are likely in the mix too, and the list will probably grow. It feels like a massive turning point on several levels. Maybe that's why the global media hasn't really picked up on it... it's hard to wrap your head around why they're ignoring this.

Looking for a new currency.

So, first off, this is basically the first time developing nations have actually donated to the IMF. Usually, it’s the other way around, right? That alone feels like a pretty big sign. The world is clearly shifting... I guess since the wealthy countries are struggling to even fund themselves, these supposedly poorer nations are just throwing billions on the table without much hesitation. Not that it's unheard of, really. Just another sign of how messy things are getting. But there's something else about this donation that sticks out. A while back, the governor of China's central bank—just casually, mind you—suggested maybe the dollar isn't the best global currency anymore and we should look at other options. It felt like he was just testing the waters, like his ideas wouldn't actually go anywhere. But honestly, making a claim like that today carries way more weight than it would have a year ago. And he's not backing down, either. Just a few days ago, the central bank in China pushed for a new global currency again. The guy's got a pretty straightforward idea: just expand the role of Special Drawing Rights. You know, that IMF accounting unit based on an average of the four big ones—the yen, pound, dollar, and euro. I mean, nobody is actually ready to talk about dethroning the dollar yet, but people are realizing that developing countries are sitting on massive foreign exchange reserves. China has the biggest pile in the world, after all. So, whether the rich countries like it or not, they're probably going to start diversifying into other currencies soon. Maybe.

Breaking in through the window.

There it is. The smoking gun. These bonds that China, Russia, and Brazil are going to dump money into will be priced in SDRs. It makes that whole accounting unit actually matter, giving developing nations way more leverage than they currently have in the IMF's portfolio. It’s like that old saying—if they won't let you through the front door, you just climb in through the window. And that's exactly what the BRIC nations are doing. Maybe it's just a small move for the IMF, but it feels like a huge step for the BRIC bloc. They're slowly hitting their marks, chipping away at the dollar's dominance, and building up their own financial muscle. It all seems aimed at cutting down their reliance on the US economy, which, honestly, hasn't been looking too reliable lately.

- This is a win for the BRIC nations, especially China - said Claudio Loser, who used to run things at the IMF for the Western Hemisphere. - Basically, by putting money into the fund, they get a much bigger say in how it’s run than their actual shares would usually allow.

China is already moving on this, just slow and steady, following their own playbook. Back in April, they cut their dollar-denominated holdings by $4.4 billion. I mean, it's a drop in the bucket, really, but maybe it's a sign of things to come. On the flip side, the US doesn't have much of a choice, since they've decided to fund their way out of the crisis by taking on more debt—debt that China is mostly footing the bill for.

They're looking at what developed nations did, I guess.

For now, though, the dollar is still king. It makes up about 64 percent of global reserves held by central banks, which is down from 73 percent back in 2001. Of course, the finance ministers from Russia and Brazil were quick to say that their recent moves—cutting dollar holdings and buying SDRs—aren't some big plot to topple the dollar. But then again, just a few weeks ago, their bosses were calling for SDRs to be given more weight, using more currencies like the Chinese yuan, and diversifying global reserves.

Then in May, China and Brazil started looking into using their own currencies for trade instead of the dollar. There are just... more red flags popping up. Not that it matters much, but it's worth noting how different economies are acting now. To paraphrase George Orwell, everyone gets hit, just not all equally. The absurdity of it is that everything stays the same, just with different players. Like, under the guise of helping the IMF help developing countries, the Chinese, Russians, Indians, Brazilians, and others are actually just helping themselves. Just like the developed nations used to do.
Harold Robinson2 Harold Robinson2 NewcomerOP
2 messages
joined Aug 2009
#2 ·
http://american.cri.cn/288/2009/05/21/21s16554.htm The European Union says they’re really focusing on beefing up dialogue and cooperation with China. They’re pushing for this deeper, strategic partnership thing between the two, and they seem ready to keep up the high-level meetings on trade and economy. Basically, they want to speed up those cooperation agreements so they can actually tackle global issues together instead of just talking about them.

The EU also stood their ground on the One China policy, saying they support keeping things peaceful across the Taiwan Strait. As for the tricky stuff—like China’s market economy status and the whole arms sales situation—they said they’ll handle it fairly and objectively. I guess there’s some political will to finally sort out that weapons ban too.

During the meeting, the big focus was on how to deal with international financial crises. Both sides agreed they need to step up and fight against any kind of trade or investment protectionism. After everything wrapped up, Wen Jiabao mentioned that China is planning to send a procurement delegation over to Europe soon to help boost imports.
dustytrucker51 dustytrucker51 Newcomer
8 messages
joined Oct 2007
#3 ·
Nicole Barrett76 said:Is this thread seriously too pathetic for anyone to comment on???

Look, my take might not be the smartest thing ever, but I'll drop my two cents later. In the meantime, total support for the author—bumping this.

Yeah, the topic is great, but honestly, the lack of discussion doesn't surprise me. I've realized people on these forums don't really want to—or know how to—debate stuff like this. They'd much rather talk about some pseudo-documentary conspiracy theories than face the actual reality of things like BRIC and their attempt to chip away at the hegemony of the USA.
If it isn't scandalous or shocking, people just stay clear. 🙂 It's the same deal as them preferring to watch Moore or Zeitgeist instead of actually reading a dry book by Chomsky.

I have to admit, this article itself is pretty telling regarding how uninformed we are as a nation. Presenting BRIC as some brand-new thing people are just now hearing about is honestly a bit depressing. BRIC has been an economic and political concept—even if informal—for almost a decade now.

Usually, I'm happy whenever BRIC succeeds, but I try to keep my cool and stay cynical. Sure, they’re acting to reduce the dominance of one superpower, but on the flip side, you're just creating another bloc that will eventually become its own new superpower. I naturally doubt the "good intentions" of big powers and nations; I just expect a different model of the same system of dominance we have now. The silver lining is that if BRIC pulls it off, we'll at least have a counterweight to the USA. Having competition is always better for small players like us, whether we're talking micro-level stuff (like when a major carrier finally shows up in a city like Chicago) or macro-economics.

Even during this recession, BRIC has shown that certain countries—especially those not totally shackled to the dollar or the US economy—can fare much better with milder consequences (looking specifically at Russia). If we pivot toward them and their shared market (loose as it may be), we could come out ahead too. My only fear is that our politicians are completely blind to all of this. They still think the only question worth asking is "USA or EU" and which one we should fall under the wing of. They don't seem to see any other options.

Anyway, that's the short version... I didn't come here specifically for this topic, so this is just a quick fly-by. 🙂
I actually came to see if there was any chatter about the Democrats winning in Japan after 50 years, which ties back into this globally (the Democrats in Japan don't want to rely so heavily on the USA, showing how the rest of the world's economy is shifting toward different relationships), but you can barely read about that in our media, let alone find it on a forum.

Hopefully, more people will chime in... but I'm afraid I'm just wishing for the impossible. 🙂
Nicole Barrett76 Nicole Barrett76 Regular
515 messages
joined Sep 2009
#4 ·
dustytrucker51 said:Yeah, the topic is great, but honestly, the lack of discussion doesn't surprise me. I've realized people on these forums don't really want to—or know how to—debate stuff like this. They'd much rather talk about some pseudo-documentary conspiracy theories than face the actual reality of things like BRIC and their attempt to chip away at the hegemony of the USA.
If it isn't scandalous or shocking, people just stay clear. 🙂 It's the same deal as them preferring to watch Moore or Zeitgeist instead of actually reading a dry book by Chomsky.

I have to admit, this article itself is pretty telling regarding how uninformed we are as a nation. Presenting BRIC as some brand-new thing people are just now hearing about is honestly a bit depressing. BRIC has been an economic and political concept—even if informal—for almost a decade now.

Usually, I'm happy whenever BRIC succeeds, but I try to keep my cool and stay cynical. Sure, they’re acting to reduce the dominance of one superpower, but on the flip side, you're just creating another bloc that will eventually become its own new superpower. I naturally doubt the "good intentions" of big powers and nations; I just expect a different model of the same system of dominance we have now. The silver lining is that if BRIC pulls it off, we'll at least have a counterweight to the USA. Having competition is always better for small players like us, whether we're talking micro-level stuff (like when a major carrier finally shows up in a city like Chicago) or macro-economics.

Even during this recession, BRIC has shown that certain countries—especially those not totally shackled to the dollar or the US economy—can fare much better with milder consequences (looking specifically at Russia). If we pivot toward them and their shared market (loose as it may be), we could come out ahead too. My only fear is that our politicians are completely blind to all of this. They still think the only question worth asking is "USA or EU" and which one we should fall under the wing of. They don't seem to see any other options.

Anyway, that's the short version... I didn't come here specifically for this topic, so this is just a quick fly-by. 🙂
I actually came to see if there was any chatter about the Democrats winning in Japan after 50 years, which ties back into this globally (the Democrats in Japan don't want to rely so heavily on the USA, showing how the rest of the world's economy is shifting toward different relationships), but you can barely read about that in our media, let alone find it on a forum.

Hopefully, more people will chime in... but I'm afraid I'm just wishing for the impossible. 🙂

Well, you've made a solid point. Personally, I find this subject fascinating, even though I am completely uninformed in this field. In fact, I struggle to distinguish between the World Bank and the IMF. Both deal with finance, but to a layman like me, it feels as though the IMF handles the dirty work for the World Bank, while the World Bank stays somewhat sidelined, presenting itself as the "good guy," whereas the IMF is viewed more as the "policeman."

Furthermore, I cannot fathom how the IMF manages to avoid generating significant returns from its activities, such that it doesn't have to sell itself. After all, no (semi-)private financial institution—and indeed, none of these massive institutions, which are indirectly owned by perhaps twenty or fifty of the most powerful financiers—provides loans without interest. They certainly can provide them, but then they demand something in return. And even that quid pro quo eventually converts back into money, so it all leads back to the same place.

Simply put—I don't know what else to say.

It seems to me that the success of the BRIC nations might be linked to coal exports, at least in the case of Russia and Brazil.

And don't even get me started on oil, given that Russia possesses oil, coal, and various other minerals.

But considering the intensive construction of new coal-fired power plants and the increasing export of coal—which is much cheaper than oil, though its price likely rises alongside oil prices—these countries are reaping the profits.

Brazil is quite large, and that's if you factor in their iron ore...
Lisa Walker31 Lisa Walker31 Active Member
59 messages
joined Dec 2007
#5 ·

dustytrucker51 said:Yeah, the topic is great, but honestly, the lack of discussion doesn't surprise me. I've realized people on these forums don't really want to—or know how to—debate stuff like this. They'd much rather talk about some pseudo-documentary conspiracy theories than face the actual reality of things like BRIC and their attempt to chip away at the hegemony of the USA.
If it isn't scandalous or shocking, people just stay clear. 🙂 It's the same deal as them preferring to watch Moore or Zeitgeist instead of actually reading a dry book by Chomsky.

I have to admit, this article itself is pretty telling regarding how uninformed we are as a nation. Presenting BRIC as some brand-new thing people are just now hearing about is honestly a bit depressing. BRIC has been an economic and political concept—even if informal—for almost a decade now.

Usually, I'm happy whenever BRIC succeeds, but I try to keep my cool and stay cynical. Sure, they’re acting to reduce the dominance of one superpower, but on the flip side, you're just creating another bloc that will eventually become its own new superpower. I naturally doubt the "good intentions" of big powers and nations; I just expect a different model of the same system of dominance we have now. The silver lining is that if BRIC pulls it off, we'll at least have a counterweight to the USA. Having competition is always better for small players like us, whether we're talking micro-level stuff (like when a major carrier finally shows up in a city like Chicago) or macro-economics.

Even during this recession, BRIC has shown that certain countries—especially those not totally shackled to the dollar or the US economy—can fare much better with milder consequences (looking specifically at Russia). If we pivot toward them and their shared market (loose as it may be), we could come out ahead too. My only fear is that our politicians are completely blind to all of this. They still think the only question worth asking is "USA or EU" and which one we should fall under the wing of. They don't seem to see any other options.

Anyway, that's the short version... I didn't come here specifically for this topic, so this is just a quick fly-by. 🙂
I actually came to see if there was any chatter about the Democrats winning in Japan after 50 years, which ties back into this globally (the Democrats in Japan don't want to rely so heavily on the USA, showing how the rest of the world's economy is shifting toward different relationships), but you can barely read about that in our media, let alone find it on a forum.

Hopefully, more people will chime in... but I'm afraid I'm just wishing for the impossible. 🙂

I’m telling you right now, seeing Russia and China succeed doesn't bring me any joy whatsoever—not even a little bit. Honestly? It scares the hell out of me. I’m talking terrified. If you look back at history, they have proven time and time again exactly how far they are willing to go to get what they want, and trust me, there isn't much they won't do.
Oh, please... give me a break with all this talk about Bush, Guantanamo, and Hiroshima. It’s all just noise if you ask me. If China and Russia actually decide to steamroll us, we aren't just looking at a bad day—we are absolutely, completely screwed!😠

Anyway... I’ve gotta say, Brazilians are definitely much more upbeat than anyone else!👍
I’m not even worried about them, honestly. They are definitely on the rise, there's no denying that, but they don't suffer from those massive, megalomaniacal delusions of grandeur that you see with the Chinese or the Russians.

Lula is my absolute hero... honestly, he should be an icon and a role model for every single half-witted person on this planet!😉
He’s easily one of the best politicians in the world right now.
Man, where can we find someone with that kind of sharp, street-smart wisdom... someone like Lula!🙂

The thing is, I truly believe... that our "new world" is going to be what international relations experts call "multipolar," rather than the way things have been for the last 20 years or so.
Unfortunately... the Americans, with their terrible leadership and catastrophic policy decisions... have completely squandered any chance they had at global dominance.

All I really want to know is... who will Israel turn to once the USA starts to slowly sink under its own weight?
Will they go with the Russians? I highly doubt it... since the Russians have been playing Turkey and its neighbors for fools for ages now.

Anyone paying attention to the "Ergenoken" scandal over in Turkey... is going to realize that almost all those high-profile killings—the Armenian journalist and activist, the Christians, the converts, the opposition figures, etc., which the global media presents as the work of Islamists or nationalists—were actually orchestrated by anti-EU Russians working alongside Turkish nationalist right-wingers who are obsessed with this "Eurasia" idea as a political bloc to rival the EU. The whole goal was to sow pure chaos in Turkey... to trigger state coups that would permanently block Turkey from joining the EU and eventually push them toward closer political cooperation and dependency on Russia. It's classic Russian maneuvering. And considering how much the Tatars and other Turanian and Muslim groups are gaining influence within Russia... this whole "Eurasian project" actually makes a terrifying amount of sense.
Nicole Barrett76 Nicole Barrett76 Regular
515 messages
joined Sep 2009
#6 ·
Lisa Walker31 said:I’m telling you right now, seeing Russia and China succeed doesn't bring me any joy whatsoever—not even a little bit. Honestly? It scares the hell out of me. I’m talking terrified. If you look back at history, they have proven time and time again exactly how far they are willing to go to get what they want, and trust me, there isn't much they won't do.
Oh, please... give me a break with all this talk about Bush, Guantanamo, and Hiroshima. It’s all just noise if you ask me. If China and Russia actually decide to steamroll us, we aren't just looking at a bad day—we are absolutely, completely screwed!😠

Anyway... I’ve gotta say, Brazilians are definitely much more upbeat than anyone else!👍
I’m not even worried about them, honestly. They are definitely on the rise, there's no denying that, but they don't suffer from those massive, megalomaniacal delusions of grandeur that you see with the Chinese or the Russians.

Lula is my absolute hero... honestly, he should be an icon and a role model for every single half-witted person on this planet!😉
He’s easily one of the best politicians in the world right now.
Man, where can we find someone with that kind of sharp, street-smart wisdom... someone like Lula!🙂

The thing is, I truly believe... that our "new world" is going to be what international relations experts call "multipolar," rather than the way things have been for the last 20 years or so.
Unfortunately... the Americans, with their terrible leadership and catastrophic policy decisions... have completely squandered any chance they had at global dominance.

All I really want to know is... who will Israel turn to once the USA starts to slowly sink under its own weight?
Will they go with the Russians? I highly doubt it... since the Russians have been playing Turkey and its neighbors for fools for ages now.

Anyone paying attention to the "Ergenoken" scandal over in Turkey... is going to realize that almost all those high-profile killings—the Armenian journalist and activist, the Christians, the converts, the opposition figures, etc., which the global media presents as the work of Islamists or nationalists—were actually orchestrated by anti-EU Russians working alongside Turkish nationalist right-wingers who are obsessed with this "Eurasia" idea as a political bloc to rival the EU. The whole goal was to sow pure chaos in Turkey... to trigger state coups that would permanently block Turkey from joining the EU and eventually push them toward closer political cooperation and dependency on Russia. It's classic Russian maneuvering. And considering how much the Tatars and other Turanian and Muslim groups are gaining influence within Russia... this whole "Eurasian project" actually makes a terrifying amount of sense.

China doesn't actually possess a massive stockpile of nuclear weapons or ballistic missiles; that dominance belongs solely to Russia. And when you consider that the Russians are essentially white supremacists, one has to wonder: if anyone were to turn nuclear weapons against the West, wouldn't it be the Japanese? (After all, Americans historically earned their retribution).

Consequently, I struggle to see how the Chinese could possibly inflict a catastrophe on us greater than Hiroshima, given their limited nuclear arsenal.

The sheer scale of evil that we Westerners inflict upon one another is nothing short of staggering. Ultimately, it is our own malice that will destroy us. I was just watching a farming segment where a producer lamented that his input costs for seeds and supplies had surged by 35%, while the market price for rapeseed plummeted from $1.25 down to $0.53.

It is a devastating combination, is it not? Prices have crashed by over fifty percent while production costs have climbed by more than thirty percent. This dynamic effectively dismantles our agricultural foundation, and in a world where survival is at stake, food is our most vital necessity. We can manage without electricity or high technology, but without food, there is simply no way to survive.
Lisa Walker31 Lisa Walker31 Active Member
59 messages
joined Dec 2007
#7 ·
Nicole Barrett76 said:

China doesn't actually possess a massive stockpile of nuclear weapons or ballistic missiles; that dominance belongs solely to Russia. And when you consider that the Russians are essentially white supremacists, one has to wonder: if anyone were to turn nuclear weapons against the West, wouldn't it be the Japanese? (After all, Americans historically earned their retribution).

Consequently, I struggle to see how the Chinese could possibly inflict a catastrophe on us greater than Hiroshima, given their limited nuclear arsenal.

The sheer scale of evil that we Westerners inflict upon one another is nothing short of staggering. Ultimately, it is our own malice that will destroy us. I was just watching a farming segment where a producer lamented that his input costs for seeds and supplies had surged by 35%, while the market price for rapeseed plummeted from $1.25 down to $0.53.

It is a devastating combination, is it not? Prices have crashed by over fifty percent while production costs have climbed by more than thirty percent. This dynamic effectively dismantles our agricultural foundation, and in a world where survival is at stake, food is our most vital necessity. We can manage without electricity or high technology, but without food, there is simply no way to survive.
China doesn't actually possess a massive stockpile of nuclear weapons or ballistic missiles; that dominance belongs solely to Russia. And when you consider that the Russians are essentially white supremacists, one has to wonder: if anyone were to turn nuclear weapons against the West, wouldn't it be the Japanese? (After all, Americans historically earned their retribution).

Consequently, I struggle to see how the Chinese could possibly inflict a catastrophe on us greater than Hiroshima, given their limited nuclear arsenal.

The sheer scale of evil that we Westerners inflict upon one another is nothing short of staggering. Ultimately, it is our own malice that will destroy us. I was just watching a farming segment where a producer lamented that his input costs for seeds and supplies had surged by 35%, while the market price for rapeseed plummeted from $1.25 down to $0.53.

It is a devastating combination, is it not? Prices have crashed by over fifty percent while production costs have climbed by more than thirty percent. This dynamic effectively dismantles our agricultural foundation, and in a world where survival is at stake, food is our most vital necessity. We can manage without electricity or high technology, but without food, there is simply no way to survive.
So what if they don't have the absolute most advanced weaponry on the planet? Honestly, they don't even need it... not for "that." 😉 What exactly are they aiming for here? Seriously, just take a look at their historical track record over the last few hundred years—I mean, really dig into it—and then look at that whole "Russian-Soviet" mess they’ve been running.

What does it even matter if Russians are white? I mean, honestly, what percentage of "Russians" is actually going to be "real Russians" in like, a hundred years anyway?
What does "White" even signify these days? Do you honestly believe the West actually operates through some kind of "racial framework" from the jump?
Open your eyes. The leader of the Western World is half-African. Do I even need to spell that out for you?

Don't you see that one of their main goals is building out an Eurasian Union alongside the Turks, all while pivoting their whole strategic focus toward the Middle East?
It’s just one thing after another... I mean, look at how they’ve built up those walls in every single corner of the elite establishment; it’s like they’re completely insulated, which makes the idea of actually pulling something off with Turkey and the whole Pan-Turkism movement feel incredibly unlikely.

And honestly, most Turks are going to side with the EU over some massive Eurasian Union any day of the week. I’ve had plenty of people tell me straight up that they don't feel like they're missing out on anything by staying independent—they don't see the point in tethering themselves to these massive geopolitical blocs. They'd much rather just play the field and balance everyone against each other, keeping their options open while navigating the neighborhood on their own terms. 😛
So... I mean, look at the situation here. We're talking about someone caught right in the middle of this tug-of-war between Pan-Turkism and some kind of massive pivot toward the Middle East, and yet, even an ultra-Islamist like Erdogan decides he’d rather go with the EU? It's wild when you really think about it.
So, how much weight do language, race, religion, and Huntington’s whole deal about the "Clash of Civilizations" actually carry in all of this?

How on earth can anyone argue that Huntington actually has a point here? I mean, look at the facts—Turkey is basically turning its back on both the Pan-Turkism movement and the entire Islamic Middle East, all just to try and worm its way into the EU. It makes zero sense! You’ve got this history where they were part of an Islamic Caliphate—which, let's be honest, is basically like having an Islamic Pope acting as a Sultan—and now they're pivoting entirely. Meanwhile, you have these Russian ultra-nationalists openly floating the idea of forming some kind of alliance or community with the Turks. The whole logic just falls apart when you really sit down and look at the contradictions flying around.
Ronald Rogers27 Ronald Rogers27 Active Member
152 messages
joined Mar 2008
#8 ·
Harold Robinson2 said:So, besides China, Russia and Brazil all stepped up with $10 billion each to buy those IMF bonds. That should pretty much wrap up the first $70 billion offering. I guess China, Russia, and Brazil are just trying to push back against the dollar's dominance and maybe grab some more weight in the global economy.

The Fed is making some big moves. I guess they’re looking at those inflation numbers again. It feels like everything is shifting so fast lately. Maybe the economy is finally cooling down, or maybe we're just seeing more volatility. Hard to say for sure. Just watching the markets closely. The IMF's recent announcement about issuing bonds for the first time in its 60-year history basically flew under the radar of the major news outlets. I guess it's pretty obvious why. According to their own update, they're making a desperate play to scrape together cash that everyone promised months ago but nobody actually sent. They're aiming for $500 billion by using bonds to recapitalize themselves based on market principles—kind of like how a country would do it. It seems like ever since this crisis kicked off, everyone's been passing the buck, leaving this dying IMF to deal with the massive funding needs of struggling global economies. But, honestly, hardly anyone has actually coughed up the money they pledged. So, this move makes sense, I suppose. Instead of waiting on those usual membership dues, they're just heading straight to the open markets to find people who will actually pay up.

They aren't missing, honestly. A hierarchy formed almost immediately, with the developing economies—that BRIC group you should probably keep an eye on since they'll be huge in the coming years—taking the lead. This whole situation pretty much proves that. China, Russia, and Brazil are already eyeing those $70 billion in notes from the bond sale. I guess China would grab about $50 billion of that, given their financial weight, while Russia and Brazil might start a bit smaller, maybe $10 billion each. These IMF debtors would have five years to pay it back. India and Mexico are likely in the mix too, and the list will probably grow. It feels like a massive turning point on several levels. Maybe that's why the global media hasn't really picked up on it... it's hard to wrap your head around why they're ignoring this.

Looking for a new currency.

So, first off, this is basically the first time developing nations have actually donated to the IMF. Usually, it’s the other way around, right? That alone feels like a pretty big sign. The world is clearly shifting... I guess since the wealthy countries are struggling to even fund themselves, these supposedly poorer nations are just throwing billions on the table without much hesitation. Not that it's unheard of, really. Just another sign of how messy things are getting. But there's something else about this donation that sticks out. A while back, the governor of China's central bank—just casually, mind you—suggested maybe the dollar isn't the best global currency anymore and we should look at other options. It felt like he was just testing the waters, like his ideas wouldn't actually go anywhere. But honestly, making a claim like that today carries way more weight than it would have a year ago. And he's not backing down, either. Just a few days ago, the central bank in China pushed for a new global currency again. The guy's got a pretty straightforward idea: just expand the role of Special Drawing Rights. You know, that IMF accounting unit based on an average of the four big ones—the yen, pound, dollar, and euro. I mean, nobody is actually ready to talk about dethroning the dollar yet, but people are realizing that developing countries are sitting on massive foreign exchange reserves. China has the biggest pile in the world, after all. So, whether the rich countries like it or not, they're probably going to start diversifying into other currencies soon. Maybe.

Breaking in through the window.

There it is. The smoking gun. These bonds that China, Russia, and Brazil are going to dump money into will be priced in SDRs. It makes that whole accounting unit actually matter, giving developing nations way more leverage than they currently have in the IMF's portfolio. It’s like that old saying—if they won't let you through the front door, you just climb in through the window. And that's exactly what the BRIC nations are doing. Maybe it's just a small move for the IMF, but it feels like a huge step for the BRIC bloc. They're slowly hitting their marks, chipping away at the dollar's dominance, and building up their own financial muscle. It all seems aimed at cutting down their reliance on the US economy, which, honestly, hasn't been looking too reliable lately.

- This is a win for the BRIC nations, especially China - said Claudio Loser, who used to run things at the IMF for the Western Hemisphere. - Basically, by putting money into the fund, they get a much bigger say in how it’s run than their actual shares would usually allow.

China is already moving on this, just slow and steady, following their own playbook. Back in April, they cut their dollar-denominated holdings by $4.4 billion. I mean, it's a drop in the bucket, really, but maybe it's a sign of things to come. On the flip side, the US doesn't have much of a choice, since they've decided to fund their way out of the crisis by taking on more debt—debt that China is mostly footing the bill for.

They're looking at what developed nations did, I guess.

For now, though, the dollar is still king. It makes up about 64 percent of global reserves held by central banks, which is down from 73 percent back in 2001. Of course, the finance ministers from Russia and Brazil were quick to say that their recent moves—cutting dollar holdings and buying SDRs—aren't some big plot to topple the dollar. But then again, just a few weeks ago, their bosses were calling for SDRs to be given more weight, using more currencies like the Chinese yuan, and diversifying global reserves.

Then in May, China and Brazil started looking into using their own currencies for trade instead of the dollar. There are just... more red flags popping up. Not that it matters much, but it's worth noting how different economies are acting now. To paraphrase George Orwell, everyone gets hit, just not all equally. The absurdity of it is that everything stays the same, just with different players. Like, under the guise of helping the IMF help developing countries, the Chinese, Russians, Indians, Brazilians, and others are actually just helping themselves. Just like the developed nations used to do.

Great topic... It’s been bothering me for a long time how the USA just does whatever it wants. They export massive amounts of USD into the world without any real control, basically trading it for oil and cheap manufacturing to fuel our mass consumer culture. What really gets me is that those same dollars held by China, Brazil, Japan, and Russia can't even be used to buy up American companies right here at home. Or even used to generate interest rates that are at least 2% higher than local growth rates—which would actually help those economies grow through a positive feedback loop.😬

So, what's the play? It makes total sense for China to swap those massive piles of USD for other types of bonds (backed by actual assets). Why? Because the US mostly relies on devaluation—basically printing more money without any backing to bail itself out—which eats away at Chinese reserves. This effectively forces the Chinese (and by extension, Japan, Russia, and Brazil) to pay for the USA to dig itself out of trillion-dollar holes. 🙄

It isn't exactly a secret that China has started its own version of a bailout. They're pouring nearly $600 billion into massive infrastructure projects—bridges, highways, schools, hospitals—to make the most of the dollar's value before it eventually erodes in the 😍Future of the East.

Ronald Rogers27
Emily Clark6 Emily Clark6 Member
11 messages
joined Sep 2009
#9 ·
The IMF is selling out to China🙄 Please... they aren't "selling" anything. The author clearly has no clue how bonds actually work. They aren't stocks, you know...☕
hollowhawk412 hollowhawk412 Active Member
60 messages
joined Oct 2011
#10 ·
Emily Clark6 said:The IMF is selling out to China🙄 Please... they aren't "selling" anything. The author clearly has no clue how bonds actually work. They aren't stocks, you know...☕

It isn't even about selling anything at this point; they've already gone and buried themselves in debt with the BRIC nations. 😉

So what if China, Russia, and Brazil continue to grow? Honestly, I don't see how that could possibly be a bad thing for anyone.

A multipolar world is fundamentally superior to a unipolar one, and frankly, these emerging powers only have a finite trajectory before they hit their ceiling. They aren't going to achieve total dominance, and they certainly won't ever sit on the throne alone.
Nancy Wood6 Nancy Wood6 Active Member
51 messages
joined Oct 2014
#11 ·
The Dollar is officially, 100%, on its way down the drain!!! And look, this isn't even about being anti-American or pushing some multipolar agenda anymore—it’s just a straight-up fact. Seriously, we need to talk about this without all the crazy sensationalism or people acting like it's just some wild conspiracy theory.

What we’re seeing lately at local banks and exchange bureaus here in the States—this sudden, totally unexpected dip in the dollar—is finally starting to make sense because actual experts with some real skin in the game are weighing in. There was this super interesting piece over on Yahoo:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/200...politico/28091

The article basically says there's a massive global movement happening—a real push to slam the door on dollar hegemony once and for all. It's about stopping Washington from controlling the entire world economy, which they've used for decades to basically siphon off massive wealth using totally arbitrary rules. They spend it all on weapons and use that to boss other governments around, all for their own benefit. Up until now—and honestly, probably for a while longer—Washington has been shifting its debts onto other countries while keeping nations with huge dollar reserves in a state that's pretty much close to servitude. I mean, remember when the Japanese tried to move something like $134 billion into another currency through Swiss bankers? Of course, the CIA was on it, and the whole plan fell apart when those Japanese officials were caught right near the Swiss border. Right after that, the Japanese Finance Minister, Kaoru Yosano, claimed their trust in the dollar was "unshakable." Yeah, right.

http://www.meetup.com/nyinvestingmee...thread/7151625

Regarding this latest shake-up, the writers at Yahoo think the real power players behind this hit to the dollar are China, France, Russia, and the big oil-producing Arab nations—all of them trying to break free from that suffocating American grip. Obviously, everyone is denying it, just like Japan denied they were trying to dump $134 billion worth of dollar-denominated bonds into another currency at any cost.

The rest of the world is waking up to the fact that the US economy is actually pretty sick—it isn't built on the solid ground of a "real economy," but rather on manipulating the dollar itself. Most of what they have today is built on a foundation that's basically artificial.

Let's just hope the folks trying to ditch the dollar stick to their guns, even though it's definitely going to cause some massive, terrifying market crashes along the way. But hey, no biggie—after the rain comes the sun, right? I truly believe things will look a lot brighter once we move past Pax Americana, though we might be waiting a while. Nobody gives up their privileges that easily, especially when they feel like they have to defend them with their own lives—or worse, someone else's!
Frank Gonzalez13 Frank Gonzalez13 Newcomer
1 message
joined Oct 2009
#12 ·
Have you ever considered that the dollar's decline might actually be a calculated move to jumpstart the US economy while simultaneously cleaning up the import/export balance sheet? I mean, think about it—does a struggling economy actually benefit from a powerhouse currency, or is a weaker one more practical?
Your obsession with seeing the US collapse is clearly clouding your judgment when it comes to understanding their political maneuvering. You're so eager to see this pillar of civilization crumble that you've lost all sense of objectivity.
If the USA hits a serious economic or political wall, we’re all going to feel the fallout. Honestly, if they wanted to maintain total stability, they’d probably just establish some kind of global government to keep everything under control.
George Grant12 George Grant12 Newcomer
2 messages
joined Sep 2008
#13 ·
Of course. Honestly, who wouldn't want to see the dollar take a bit of a hit? It’s a win-win for everyone else. For starters, those totalitarian regimes in the Middle East would see their oil revenues drop since they're paid in dollars. Then you have the dictatorship in China, which would end up with fewer reserves to dump into gold. And that’s where the real catch-22 kicks in: the more gold they try to grab, the more dollars they pump back into the market, which just ends up devaluing the dollar even further.
Nancy Wood6 Nancy Wood6 Active Member
51 messages
joined Oct 2014
#14 ·
I caught a glimpse of Svetlan—well, you know who I mean—and man, what a sight! I can't even begin to explain this one—honestly, it’s just wild how things work sometimes! So, anyway...
Ever thought about how the whole dollar slide might actually be a setup? Like—total mastermind move to give the US economy a massive kickstart while simultaneously tightening up that import/export balance. It’s kind of wild when you think about it—does a struggling economy actually need a powerhouse currency, or is a weaker one exactly what’s needed to get things moving again? Just some food for thought!
Look, you’re being so blind to how US politics actually works—honestly, that intense desire you have for the whole foundation of American civilization to just crumble—it really messes with your ability to be objective sometimes.
We’re basically toast if the USA starts tripping over its own feet with economic or political drama—it’s that simple. Honestly, if they really wanted to play it smart and keep things steady, they should just go ahead and set up some kind of global government or something... then we wouldn't have to deal with all this chaos.

Yeah, I’ve been sitting here chewing on this, and honestly? I’ve come to this conclusion—not one person I know, not a single family, and definitely not any government that lived way beyond its means, has ever actually come out on top. That's just the bottom line right there—that's the whole point of it all—and all that stuff about hate or love? That’s just extra noise from some other dimension entirely.

Look, let’s just be real here—the USA built its entire empire and all that massive power on a mountain of debt and stuff that basically doesn't even exist. It's a total fact, honestly. Plus, the US managed to turn the dollar into this global powerhouse currency, but there's zero actual backing behind it—which means you can't even really calculate what it's actually worth if you tried. Just a wild way to run things!

Look, for anyone out there living way beyond their means—you know, those people who just ignore the basic rules of "real economics"—your clock is ticking. Seriously. The end is coming, and the only reason it hasn't hit yet is because of this insane, high-stakes balancing act involving politics, military muscle, finance, and basically every monopoly tactic in the book. It’s pure extortionist acrobatics at this point. Those are just facts, plain and simple—so all that nonsense Nancy Wood6 keeps calling "prejudice" doesn't really hold any water here.

Look, the bottom line is that the USA was looking for a way to offload $134 billion—it’s just a straight fact. And let’s be real, every major player on the global stage is trying to do the exact same thing right now. Everyone wants to get out from under the dollar's thumb so they aren't constantly at its mercy, you know? So, honestly, Nancy Wood6 doesn't really have a leg to stand on here—no matter how much she might want to cling to those little "prejudices" she's nursing, which, by the way, aren't even prejudices at all.

The real issue is people like you who basically worship the USA and act like they're some kind of global guardian—it’s a legal question, really, but guardian of what exactly? Are you guys just glorying them because of how things went down in WWII? Because I’m definitely not. Personally, I think National Socialism was actually the most efficient, most humane, and just better in every way possible as a social system—if you set aside the militarism, the antisemitism, and all those other little quirks that aren't actually inherent to the core idea. Honestly, I feel like Nazi Germany would have been the kind of state that’s super prosperous, totally uncorrupted, and technologically and socially advanced by today's standards. Just because one side lost the war doesn't mean it wasn't a superior model, and frankly, the USA is just the ultimate example of how to destroy systems that were actually built for the common man—unlike this bastardized, pseudo-individualistic mess we have now, which just drags the vast majority of people straight into bankruptcy, poverty, confusion, and total misery.

Hey everyone, hope you're all doing wonderful today!!!

Look, there’s gonna be a massive earthquake once the US system finally snaps—I mean, I don't know exactly when that's hitting, since I'm clearly not some kind of psychic—but it's coming, period. And honestly? All this bad writing you guys are seeing isn't even the biggest tragedy here. We actually need this kind of catharsis—it's like we need to purge all these fake values and this whole system that's just been pumping out nothing but pure smoke and mirrors. Sure, things are going to get messy for a bit, but it'll all settle down eventually. The best part is that we live on a continent where most countries actually rely on a "real economy"—you know, actual stuff, not just numbers on a screen—so once the US collapses, everyone else is going to wake up real quick and just pick up right where they left off. We won't have this specific level of luxury anymore, but whatever—people don't actually need all this flashy, superficial nonsense anyway. What people really crave is reality, security, and some actual stability.

So, regarding this whole idea of an American world government... honestly, why do you even care? Like, seriously, what's it to you? You’ve got people who basically built their entire empire on nothing but massive debt, wild delusions, and straight-up lies—and now we're supposed to believe they should be running the whole show? Not a chance. No way. I’ll happily sign up for another decade of pure chaos if it means things finally settle down and get back to where they actually belong!
Hannah White2 Hannah White2 Active Member
135 messages
joined Oct 2011
#15 ·
Don't lose sight of the fact that the USA is basically the engine room for everyone else right now—it’s the consumer base that's keeping so many people afloat. Honestly, it's the reason millions of Chinese people have any kind of lifestyle at all, and why we even consider China a superpower today. They are exactly the kind of customers you'd want in your corner.
Every Arab person knows that if that economy takes even one little stumble, they can just head out and start raising horses in peace...
The first rats to scurry out of their holes would be the Russians and the Chinese on one side, and then you've got those fanatical Islamic warriors on the other (aiming at Israel). That would be the opening act for World War III. And let's be real, Europe showed what it's capable of during the last big war.
But they only really step up once an enemy has already stomped through half the continent.
Poverty, disease, millions dead, nuclear weapons (Israel), and all that mess... nobody wants to see that happen, not now and not ever.
hollowhawk412 hollowhawk412 Active Member
60 messages
joined Oct 2011
#16 ·
Hannah White2 said:Don't lose sight of the fact that the USA is basically the engine room for everyone else right now—it’s the consumer base that's keeping so many people afloat. Honestly, it's the reason millions of Chinese people have any kind of lifestyle at all, and why we even consider China a superpower today. They are exactly the kind of customers you'd want in your corner.
Every Arab person knows that if that economy takes even one little stumble, they can just head out and start raising horses in peace...
The first rats to scurry out of their holes would be the Russians and the Chinese on one side, and then you've got those fanatical Islamic warriors on the other (aiming at Israel). That would be the opening act for World War III. And let's be real, Europe showed what it's capable of during the last big war.
But they only really step up once an enemy has already stomped through half the continent.
Poverty, disease, millions dead, nuclear weapons (Israel), and all that mess... nobody wants to see that happen, not now and not ever.

Neil Conaugh (I might have misspelled the name, so please excuse me)
,a historian and head of the business department at the University of Edinburgh, writes in his book rise of money that—and I will intentionally avoid using the terms USA and China here—the leading elites of the USA and China are not actually adversaries, but rather engaged in the greatest partnership in human history...
He even goes so far as to call this hybrid entity "KinoAmerika"...
The Chinese finance American debt, while Americans reciprocate by purchasing their goods...
Only someone deeply resentful or backward-looking would truly desire the downfall of the USA; the author of the post above
is merely simplifying complex issues, turning what ought to be a sensible critique of a maddeningly self-destructive and speculative financial system—a system driven by a greed for massive short-term gains that destroys the American middle class and those who depend on their spending—into some sort of ideological, anti-hegemonic pamphlet intended to birth new "righteous" nations that build their trade advantages solely by exploiting their own citizens... 🤷

At the end of WWII, the USA found itself in a unique position where the outcome led, quite inevitably, to the dollar becoming the world's dominant currency... back then, European leaders actually viewed the USA as a desirable hegemon...

The USA was the only healthy economy at the time, holding two-thirds of the world's gold reserves and accounting for over 60% of global production...

Back then, the USA pulled up Western Europe, Japan, and later South Korea and Taiwan economically—sometimes through direct aid and sometimes simply by opening its vast markets to their products... though, frankly, the primary motivation was
to pull those nations away from the potential embrace of communism, and the USA correctly calculated that steering these countries toward them would be best achieved by fostering their economic prosperity...

For me, the most vital issue is dismantling a system that works specifically to disenfranchise labor and treats both manual work and R&D as mere expenses to be cut... this is especially true for blue-collar jobs that once allowed people in the West to live comfortably, but are now being systematically eroded by cheap labor from the East due to a silent, unspoken agreement...

And I would love—much like a suggestion I saw on a blog I stumbled upon via a link here on this forum—to see the world move toward increasing labor rights in those countries with cheap labor... then we would finally see a real market competition...

Furthermore, I would particularly like to see the Chinese stop keeping their yuan artificially low...

I don't know about you all, but I am practically counting down the days until that damned yuan strengthens...
just as it should have happened long ago...
Nancy Wood6 Nancy Wood6 Active Member
51 messages
joined Oct 2014
#17 ·

Hannah White2 said:Don't lose sight of the fact that the USA is basically the engine room for everyone else right now—it’s the consumer base that's keeping so many people afloat. Honestly, it's the reason millions of Chinese people have any kind of lifestyle at all, and why we even consider China a superpower today. They are exactly the kind of customers you'd want in your corner.
Every Arab person knows that if that economy takes even one little stumble, they can just head out and start raising horses in peace...
The first rats to scurry out of their holes would be the Russians and the Chinese on one side, and then you've got those fanatical Islamic warriors on the other (aiming at Israel). That would be the opening act for World War III. And let's be real, Europe showed what it's capable of during the last big war.
But they only really step up once an enemy has already stomped through half the continent.
Poverty, disease, millions dead, nuclear weapons (Israel), and all that mess... nobody wants to see that happen, not now and not ever.

Honestly, you’re way off base here—like, seriously misreading the whole situation and putting pieces together that just don't fit. I went through your post, and honestly? It reminded me of that one thread from "starksa" on this board... and yeah, it's the same deal. None of what you guys are saying is actually true.

Look, you're totally right that the USA is basically the world's biggest consumer—everyone relies on us to keep the wheels turning—but let’s be real about why that actually works. It’s not because people are buying into the whole "land of the free" or "shining city on a hill" vibe, though that's a nice thought for the postcards. No, it's way more practical than that. We've basically turned Russians, Chinese people, Arabs, and everyone else into our personal creditors—basically making them work for us by tethering them to this whole system where the dollar is just this massive, unbacked fiction. It's less about democracy and more about how we've managed to turn global players into our own little debt-servants through the sheer magic of a currency that isn't even backed by anything real. Just an observation!

Look, the first law of thermodynamics basically tells us that what we’re seeing right now is totally unsustainable. You've got China essentially cleaning up American debt—basically footing the bill for us—while the USA just keeps buying up Chinese goods... It's the basic loop. Now, some blowhards like "von drkafoni" can drone on about this whole thing being "China-America" whatever, but if they had even a shred of sense, they'd realize this setup won't last—not even in the short term. Think about it like this: when you have this endless cycle where money turns into debt, which then funds American spending, which then flows right back to China to buy products... you're creating massive losses within the system itself. It’s exactly like trying to hook a generator up to an electric motor, using that motor to spin the same generator to pull power out of it. Sure, you can throw a battery pack into the mix—in this case, let's call those Chinese dollar reserves—and you might get it to run for a little while. But everything has an expiration date. It doesn't matter if you build a high-end motor with 96% energy efficiency; eventually, the physics catch up to you and the whole thing runs dry.

Look, let's be real—the whole system we’re running on is totally broken, and honestly? It’s never going to last. The US economy is, well, let's just say it's completely detached from reality at this point—it's basically a fever dream that has nothing to do with how things actually work on the ground. Because of that, any sensible country is probably opting for a "sharp, painful crash" rather than dragging out this endless, agonizing decline. China, the Arab nations, Russia, and all the rest—they’re gonna pay a pretty hefty price for pushing this whole de-dollarization thing, but hey, it is what it is. Sure, things are going to get absolutely chaotic here in the States for a bit, but that's just part of the process. We'll eventually land on a system based on actual, objective value again. It might take a few years of madness, and yeah, those crazy-high global standards are definitely going to tank, but once the dust settles, we’ll have a much more logical setup. It’ll basically reset the entire global economy onto a foundation that actually makes sense.

Look, sometimes you just have to make the hard cuts—no matter how much it stings—and stop daydreaming that big nations, including their massive economies, aren't ready to stomach a few years of lean times, sacrifice, or even actual hunger. Because they totally are. It’s all part of the game—you restructure, you reposition, and suddenly you've carved out a whole new vantage point. It basically sets up a much stronger foundation for the people who actually pulled the strings and started these trends in the first place.

Honestly, you can dream about a system where some massive debtor—someone acting like they own the place while basically playing pretend—can just boss the whole world around without any real substance. Sure, they might get away with it for a bit if their internal economy is strong enough to soak up the damage, even if it means kicking their own citizens in the teeth for a few rough years, but let’s be real: those kinds of nations aren't going to just sit there and take it forever. You'll see it happen within a few years, mark my words. I mean, seriously, only a total blind person couldn't see the whole dollar charade for what it is. People like "starks" keep saying it's a good hegemon... maybe it was once? But look, once they opportunistically ditched the gold-silver backing for a currency that’s supposed to be global and started printing money like there's no tomorrow, they turned themselves into an unwanted hegemon whose days are pretty much numbered. And hey, when I say "days," I'm being figurative—who knows how long this actually lasts? But the fact remains: the trend of ditching the dollar as the main player is officially underway, just like the trend of pushing the USA off its throne as the dominant superpower. It won't happen overnight, obviously, but the momentum is definitely shifting!

By the way, thinking that this whole new setup would spark wars is just plain silly—seriously. It’s just one of those nonsense arguments people use to try and drag out the dominance of the dollar and the overall supremacy of the USA, which honestly isn't even based on anything solid. Truth be told, the world would just become a place with slightly fewer reasons for all those random celebrations (which are totally unearned anyway), and then we'd move straight into a logical era of the "real economy." Honestly? That sounds like a totally fair trade-off for a more just, logical, and actually sensible world!!!
Nicole Barrett76 Nicole Barrett76 Regular
515 messages
joined Sep 2009
#18 ·
I actually suspect we might see a temporary bump in the standard of living for the Chinese people; if they can no longer export their goods to America at virtually nothing and find themselves with an oversupply, that inventory will have to stay within their own borders, and since there will suddenly be such an abundance of goods, wouldn't the increased supply allow them to purchase more for less money? That is my personal take on the matter.

However, this shift will only be short-lived, as the Chinese elite will quickly realize—if they haven't already—that the mindless mass production of goods does not lead to meaningful prosperity, prompting them to scale back production shortly thereafter. Still, I believe they have already produced far too much surplus, which should result in a fleeting period of improved conditions for the broader Chinese masses.
Angela Collins2 Angela Collins2 Newcomer
1 message
joined Jan 2010
#19 ·
China is basically the biggest creditor the USA has and their second largest exporter after the EU, so I’m not even surprised by this news. http://www.seebiz.eu/hr/makroekonomi...nik,28723.html

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