Different spiritual paths

shadownomad4 said:What matters to me is that you have heard the Truth, and it will find its way to your heart.

It is no coincidence that you noticed the similarity between me and that man. That is precisely why I sent you this clip, which I watched for several hours just before you did (please, believe me for my own sake, not yours, as I have nothing to gain from this). God is not a matter of coincidence; He works by aligning these things for us.
I leave you in peace and faith, trusting that you will become convinced of Him, just as both of us have in this instance.🙂

As I mentioned before, aside from my early steps on my spiritual path, I only really started diving deep into Jesus' teachings a few years back, spending a significant amount of time and focus reading through the book of life. It led to several insights I hadn't quite grasped before—like the idea that Jesus might not have actually died on the cross, but was instead quickly taken down through the influence of Joseph of Arimathea, who was a powerful figure and a follower of Jesus.
In the Gospel of Mark, it says:
"When the centurion standing by him saw what had happened, he said, 'Surely this man was the son of God.'"
...
"Pilate, seeing that the man was already dead, asked the centurion if he had died a long time ago."

It seems clear here that the centurion was devoted to Jesus, leading him to tell Pilate that he had already passed. Given how long and agonizing a death on the cross typically is, it makes sense why Pilate would be surprised that Jesus was already gone.
Regardless, Jesus was removed from the cross and immediately wrapped in linen along with myrrh—which acts as a very potent traditional remedy with anti-inflammatory and antibacterial properties.

But none of that is truly the point; the essence of Jesus' own play required an immense amount of willpower and a willingness to endure suffering without any selfish motive.

Ultimately, I’m sticking to my guns: Jesus represents one of many paths and truths, but certainly not the only one. When Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life," he didn't say, "I am the *only* way, truth, and life," which is precisely the point you seem to be trying to drive home to me...

shadownomad4 said:My proof lies in the written Word within the Bible and the lived testimony of Jesus in my own life.

Look, you might be able to peddle those little tricks to the gullible—the ones who are starving for a bit of spirituality—but not to me. Just because you believe something is true doesn't actually make it so... even if you claim it's written in that book you call the Bible.
I’ve seen this rhetoric before; I know the methods, the patterns, all of it. Honestly? I find myself wondering how anyone can even stomach performing like this.

Michael Moore3 said:I’ve looked into this quite thoroughly, trying to approach it without any judgment or doubt, just coming from a place of wanting to truly grasp what you're getting at

but honestly, all I see is a narrative that mirrors our own discussions here so closely that it feels as though you might have picked up certain threads from a guru and woven them into your own story

I’m also not buying what they're selling, mainly because that show where the guru was featured seems to have this odd habit of charging for God's word... for instance, in one episode discussing Messianic Jews (those who recognize Jesus as the Messiah), they were advertising this new "Power Bible," which was supposedly "free," yet you had to "donate" $5 just to cover production costs to actually receive it
for comparison, groups like the Rosenkreuzers share their teachings quite freely without demanding a fee to access their wisdom
generally speaking, any knowledge that comes with a price tag tends to be worthless to me

It is with a heavy heart that I have to admit you haven't convinced me, especially since it seems this particular guru hasn't actually read every religious text if he managed to skip over the Bible... it also appears his meditation was aimed at triggering specific feelings, which misses the whole point of meditation; those emotions are really just distractions that get in the way of true insight, and focusing on them only slows down the process

Those "Rosicrucians" are nothing more than a bunch of eloquent, pseudo-intellectual fossils who gather for tea parties just to drone on about "spiritual" matters. Whatever they're handing out so freely? It isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

Angela Hall30 said:Those "Rosicrucians" are nothing more than a bunch of eloquent, pseudo-intellectual fossils who gather for tea parties just to drone on about "spiritual" matters. Whatever they're handing out so freely? It isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

I think your bias against them might be keeping you from seeing the Truth tucked away in their teachings.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting they hold the monopoly on absolute Truth, but there is a certain weight to the insights they share simply because they offer them up for free, which arguably makes them more significant than many other doctrines out there...

Michael Moore3 said:I think your bias against them might be keeping you from seeing the Truth tucked away in their teachings.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting they hold the monopoly on absolute Truth, but there is a certain weight to the insights they share simply because they offer them up for free, which arguably makes them more significant than many other doctrines out there...

I don't really care about how much someone charges for spiritual material or specific techniques. I mean, let's be real: just because we "buy" a technique doesn't mean we've suddenly bought spirituality. You still have to actually master the damn thing. When we pay, we're basically just paying for the room rental and the time those people spent putting the technique together, but it shouldn't turn into some shady business venture where people are just selling us smoke and mirrors. People tend to value things more when they're expensive, sure, but there needs to be some kind of accountability, otherwise, it's way too easy for scammers to operate in the gray areas.
So, for me, the price tag isn't the dealbreaker, though it can definitely tell you something about how organized they are or even the character of the people selling the technique.
At the end of the day, it's the spiritual background that actually matters!

mistygull16 said:I don't really care about how much someone charges for spiritual material or specific techniques. I mean, let's be real: just because we "buy" a technique doesn't mean we've suddenly bought spirituality. You still have to actually master the damn thing. When we pay, we're basically just paying for the room rental and the time those people spent putting the technique together, but it shouldn't turn into some shady business venture where people are just selling us smoke and mirrors. People tend to value things more when they're expensive, sure, but there needs to be some kind of accountability, otherwise, it's way too easy for scammers to operate in the gray areas.
So, for me, the price tag isn't the dealbreaker, though it can definitely tell you something about how organized they are or even the character of the people selling the technique.
At the end of the day, it's the spiritual background that actually matters!

I tend to feel that if money plays even the slightest role in motivation, it can't truly be called pure; I'm not saying that kind of knowledge is useless, just that it comes somewhat tainted.

Michael Moore3 said:I tend to feel that if money plays even the slightest role in motivation, it can't truly be called pure; I'm not saying that kind of knowledge is useless, just that it comes somewhat tainted.

Look, I'm not trying to be all exclusive about it, but yeah, the motive could be profit or making a buck, or maybe just covering the rent so things run smoother and more often. Even if I pick up some free book, someone, somewhere, had to foot the bill for it. So, maybe you've actually got a point there. 🤷

Michael Moore3 said:I think your bias against them might be keeping you from seeing the Truth tucked away in their teachings.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting they hold the monopoly on absolute Truth, but there is a certain weight to the insights they share simply because they offer them up for free, which arguably makes them more significant than many other doctrines out there...

I had a buddy who once attended one of those Rosicrucian gatherings—and honestly? As soon as they caught wind of his interests, they suddenly claimed they’d had some sort of astral vision of him and promptly kicked him out of the hall...
So, there you have it—that's the deal with them, their supposed knowledge, and everything else that comes with it.

mistygull16 said:Look, I'm not trying to be all exclusive about it, but yeah, the motive could be profit or making a buck, or maybe just covering the rent so things run smoother and more often. Even if I pick up some free book, someone, somewhere, had to foot the bill for it. So, maybe you've actually got a point there. 🤷

I tend to approach things from the perspective that the Truth carries its own weight simply by existing. As for compensation, I don't see an issue with it, provided the motivation isn't just chasing the reward; if the rewards are merely a byproduct of being grateful for the knowledge gained, then money is perfectly fine.
Since we’re talking about expertise and finances, I should mention that the Tensegrity instructors in Washington, D.C., don't actually teach for a paycheck. They just ask the group to split the hall rental costs among everyone attending, which is how they handle it every single time. In short, nobody is out for personal profit or making a living off the lessons.

Angela Hall30 said:I had a buddy who once attended one of those Rosicrucian gatherings—and honestly? As soon as they caught wind of his interests, they suddenly claimed they’d had some sort of astral vision of him and promptly kicked him out of the hall...
So, there you have it—that's the deal with them, their supposed knowledge, and everything else that comes with it.

There’s always a few bad apples in any harvest, so I suppose it shouldn't come as much of a surprise that even that group of Rosicrucians might fail to live up to their own teachings.
And just to be clear regarding Rosenkreuz—I wasn't referring to their followers, but rather the actual teachings themselves.

That sounds like quite an interesting experience your friend had. Would it be asking too much to have you share a few more details about it with us?

Well, nothing special, really... he was part of their little group, but the second they heard the direction his teachings were heading, they kicked him to the curb. And the woman standing up there on the stage—you know, the one acting all intensely focused, claiming she was tracking the astral vibrations—she actually leaned over to her colleague and whispered, "See? I knew they were here."
Just a bunch of pretentious, middle-aged suburbanites playing at being occultists. It reminds me of that amateur crew over at www.hermeticism.com.
Believe me, I’ve encountered much more profound masters than these pretenders, and unlike these posers, the real ones don't feel the need to parade their ego around like trophies.

Angela Hall30 said:Well, nothing special, really... he was part of their little group, but the second they heard the direction his teachings were heading, they kicked him to the curb. And the woman standing up there on the stage—you know, the one acting all intensely focused, claiming she was tracking the astral vibrations—she actually leaned over to her colleague and whispered, "See? I knew they were here."
Just a bunch of pretentious, middle-aged suburbanites playing at being occultists. It reminds me of that amateur crew over at www.hermeticism.com.
Believe me, I’ve encountered much more profound masters than these pretenders, and unlike these posers, the real ones don't feel the need to parade their ego around like trophies.

And which specific teaching was it that made them feel so threatened?

Michael Moore3 said:And which specific teaching was it that made them feel so threatened?

Thelema.

Michael Moore3 said:As I mentioned before, aside from my early steps on my spiritual path, I only really started diving deep into Jesus' teachings a few years back, spending a significant amount of time and focus reading through the book of life. It led to several insights I hadn't quite grasped before—like the idea that Jesus might not have actually died on the cross, but was instead quickly taken down through the influence of Joseph of Arimathea, who was a powerful figure and a follower of Jesus.
In the Gospel of Mark, it says:
"When the centurion standing by him saw what had happened, he said, 'Surely this man was the son of God.'"
...
"Pilate, seeing that the man was already dead, asked the centurion if he had died a long time ago."

It seems clear here that the centurion was devoted to Jesus, leading him to tell Pilate that he had already passed. Given how long and agonizing a death on the cross typically is, it makes sense why Pilate would be surprised that Jesus was already gone.
Regardless, Jesus was removed from the cross and immediately wrapped in linen along with myrrh—which acts as a very potent traditional remedy with anti-inflammatory and antibacterial properties.

But none of that is truly the point; the essence of Jesus' own play required an immense amount of willpower and a willingness to endure suffering without any selfish motive.

Ultimately, I’m sticking to my guns: Jesus represents one of many paths and truths, but certainly not the only one. When Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life," he didn't say, "I am the *only* way, truth, and life," which is precisely the point you seem to be trying to drive home to me...

"I am the Path, the Truth, and the Life, and no one comes to the father except through me."

Could it not have been stated more clearly? If there were any other option, he wouldn't have said "except through me."

shadownomad4 said:I will continue to say the same thing over and over until your mind finally accepts the realization.
Jesus is the only Way, and there is no other way!!!!!

I believed in everything you did, which makes me your ally. Don't try to tell me what I believe, because the details are irrelevant now.

When I was in your position, I didn't struggle even half as much as I did against what I advocate for now. I was even the leader of a New Age community, but once I experienced the freedom found in Jesus—that fullness of fullness—I realized You are the King of the Universe and the only one who truly exists; everything else is just delusion and spiritual coddling.

You can go through all the motions and do everything Jesus commanded, but if you aren't doing it under His guidance—specifically through the Holy Spirit—then you aren't truly a child of God. This means being a child of God is reserved solely for those who have accepted Jesus as their Lord, Master, and Savior...

The Holy Spirit is our gift here on Earth; He is the one who executes God's will in this world. Without Him, you are connected only to one entity, and that is Satan. Whether you are aware of it or not, he maintains his influence over you until you choose to let Jesus into your life. Only Jesus holds authority over Satan; no one else does.

Satan is a spiritual being who commands a kingdom of dark forces—spirits that are entirely subject to him and carry out his work. This includes spirits of lust, spirits of addiction, spirits of religiousness, spirits of sorrow, and spirits of depression. Each of these specializes in exerting pressure on human thoughts. Essentially, the thoughts you receive come from either God—via the Holy Spirit or angels—or from Satan and his spirits. They attempt to steer your thinking toward their own counsel or push you to act in ways that are not pleasing to God.

Satan's greatest victory is when a person has absolutely no idea he even exists. God said, "My people perish for lack of knowledge."
Therefore, Satan’s strategy is to keep you trapped in delusions and behaviors that dishonor God so that he may maintain control over you. His ultimate goal is to ensure you do not find salvation through Jesus, leading you to a place where God does not want you: Hell.

There it is. That is the reality of the matter. If I am not being perfectly clear, it is simply because I am speaking from my own personal insights; I don't possess the specific gift that some of my friends have to articulate these things in a way that is effortlessly accessible to everyone.

I will say it again: one cannot enter into divine mysteries without the Holy Spirit guiding them. There is often a counter-pressure from a spirit whose sole purpose is to prevent you from understanding. In those moments, the Holy Spirit is not acting as your guide; rather, that other spirit is exerting influence. That spirit has the power to cloud your mind and block spiritual insight. It doesn't even matter which specific spirit it is—all that matters is that it is not from God.
Why? Because children of God exist only within the shelter of Jesus. Why only through Jesus? Because God is one, and he who has no Son has no Father. That is what the Bible says, and it is what I have become convinced of after a long period of searching through various alternative paths and such.

I bless you in Jesus's name, and I pray that the Lord Jesus grants you all the knowledge of Him that you need to live out the fullness of life that God intended for us—both here and in Heaven with Him forever. Amen.

The Pink Elephant is the only Way, and there is no other way. Which path is the true one?

shadownomad4 said:"I am the Path, the Truth, and the Life, and no one comes to the father except through me."

Could it not have been stated more clearly? If there were any other option, he wouldn't have said "except through me."

You should check out the documentary "Zeitgeist"
In it, you might see how Jesus appeared throughout different eras of history within various cultures under different personas. What all these figures share—including Jesus—is that they don't represent a physical person, but rather the sun's journey across the sky. Jesus's death after three days and his resurrection represents the time of year when the sun is at its lowest point in the sky (which lasts three days), followed by the days getting longer (the resurrection). That’s why Jesus's life is celebrated at this same time every year.

Just as American religion evolved from ancient Egyptian roots (which I mentioned before regarding the word "Amen" and the transcription of much of the Bible from the Egyptian Book of the Dead), the Egyptians believed God was invisible. Like many ancient peoples, they felt you could only perceive the divine through creation, and the most brilliant of those creations is the sun. The point is: you can't see God directly, but you can see God's sun—His son.

So, what Jesus claims holds up if you interpret it through the lens of the ancient beliefs that gave rise to Christianity.

Here are a few more examples:
You know the story about the wedding at Cana?
Cana is actually Canaan; Americans celebrate weddings to mark the union of Yahweh (masculine energy) and nature (the earth) during the spring—when the heavy rains begin to fertilize the soil. The mother asks Jesus to turn water into wine (essentially asking the sun to pull the water up so the vines can produce grapes). And that is how Jesus turned water into wine...

The story where Jesus feeds the multitudes with fish on a mountain:
The fish is a symbol of Christianity. He didn't physically feed people fish; he fed their spirits with his teachings (Christian doctrine).

And here is some symbolism for you:
The name Israel:
IS-RA-EL refers to three distinct Old Testament deities: ISIS, AMON RA (the sun), and EL (Saturn).

shadownomad4, Jesus's teaching is one truth and one way, but certainly not the only one. Believing it is the only way simply because "that's what he said" makes you a follower who doesn't understand why they do what they do, justifying their actions through a higher purpose they can't grasp or even see—they just believe.
That kind of belief leads to many errors because it removes individual responsibility, especially since one attributes their own actions to divine intervention through themselves, as seen in your example.

shadownomad4 said:"I am the Path, the Truth, and the Life, and no one comes to the father except through me."

Could it not have been stated more clearly? If there were any other option, he wouldn't have said "except through me."

Person B: I am the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes to the Father except through me.
Person C: I am the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes to the Father except through me.
😁😁😁

Michael Moore3 said:You should check out the documentary "Zeitgeist"
In it, you might see how Jesus appeared throughout different eras of history within various cultures under different personas. What all these figures share—including Jesus—is that they don't represent a physical person, but rather the sun's journey across the sky. Jesus's death after three days and his resurrection represents the time of year when the sun is at its lowest point in the sky (which lasts three days), followed by the days getting longer (the resurrection). That’s why Jesus's life is celebrated at this same time every year.

Just as American religion evolved from ancient Egyptian roots (which I mentioned before regarding the word "Amen" and the transcription of much of the Bible from the Egyptian Book of the Dead), the Egyptians believed God was invisible. Like many ancient peoples, they felt you could only perceive the divine through creation, and the most brilliant of those creations is the sun. The point is: you can't see God directly, but you can see God's sun—His son.

So, what Jesus claims holds up if you interpret it through the lens of the ancient beliefs that gave rise to Christianity.

Here are a few more examples:
You know the story about the wedding at Cana?
Cana is actually Canaan; Americans celebrate weddings to mark the union of Yahweh (masculine energy) and nature (the earth) during the spring—when the heavy rains begin to fertilize the soil. The mother asks Jesus to turn water into wine (essentially asking the sun to pull the water up so the vines can produce grapes). And that is how Jesus turned water into wine...

The story where Jesus feeds the multitudes with fish on a mountain:
The fish is a symbol of Christianity. He didn't physically feed people fish; he fed their spirits with his teachings (Christian doctrine).

And here is some symbolism for you:
The name Israel:
IS-RA-EL refers to three distinct Old Testament deities: ISIS, AMON RA (the sun), and EL (Saturn).

shadownomad4, Jesus's teaching is one truth and one way, but certainly not the only one. Believing it is the only way simply because "that's what he said" makes you a follower who doesn't understand why they do what they do, justifying their actions through a higher purpose they can't grasp or even see—they just believe.
That kind of belief leads to many errors because it removes individual responsibility, especially since one attributes their own actions to divine intervention through themselves, as seen in your example.

Lies. Lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, and lies from Satan.

shadownomad4 said:Lies. Lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, and lies from Satan.

Quickly now—douse me in holy water! Say a prayer for me so we can cast out Satan! Or just drag me out into the sunlight and let me crumble into ash... though I suppose that’s more of a vampire thing, isn't it?
🙄

Michael Moore3 said:You should check out the documentary "Zeitgeist"
In it, you might see how Jesus appeared throughout different eras of history within various cultures under different personas. What all these figures share—including Jesus—is that they don't represent a physical person, but rather the sun's journey across the sky. Jesus's death after three days and his resurrection represents the time of year when the sun is at its lowest point in the sky (which lasts three days), followed by the days getting longer (the resurrection). That’s why Jesus's life is celebrated at this same time every year.

Just as American religion evolved from ancient Egyptian roots (which I mentioned before regarding the word "Amen" and the transcription of much of the Bible from the Egyptian Book of the Dead), the Egyptians believed God was invisible. Like many ancient peoples, they felt you could only perceive the divine through creation, and the most brilliant of those creations is the sun. The point is: you can't see God directly, but you can see God's sun—His son.

So, what Jesus claims holds up if you interpret it through the lens of the ancient beliefs that gave rise to Christianity.

Here are a few more examples:
You know the story about the wedding at Cana?
Cana is actually Canaan; Americans celebrate weddings to mark the union of Yahweh (masculine energy) and nature (the earth) during the spring—when the heavy rains begin to fertilize the soil. The mother asks Jesus to turn water into wine (essentially asking the sun to pull the water up so the vines can produce grapes). And that is how Jesus turned water into wine...

The story where Jesus feeds the multitudes with fish on a mountain:
The fish is a symbol of Christianity. He didn't physically feed people fish; he fed their spirits with his teachings (Christian doctrine).

And here is some symbolism for you:
The name Israel:
IS-RA-EL refers to three distinct Old Testament deities: ISIS, AMON RA (the sun), and EL (Saturn).

shadownomad4, Jesus's teaching is one truth and one way, but certainly not the only one. Believing it is the only way simply because "that's what he said" makes you a follower who doesn't understand why they do what they do, justifying their actions through a higher purpose they can't grasp or even see—they just believe.
That kind of belief leads to many errors because it removes individual responsibility, especially since one attributes their own actions to divine intervention through themselves, as seen in your example.

That is correct; you have articulated that beautifully. In truth, there is no physical evidence confirming the existence of Christ. Jesus serves as a spring deity, an embodiment of the self, and a symbol of the sun and the cross—representing both life and humanity.

I find great personal affection for Jesus and the profound symbolism he carries.

Michael Moore3 said:You should check out the documentary "Zeitgeist"
In it, you might see how Jesus appeared throughout different eras of history within various cultures under different personas. What all these figures share—including Jesus—is that they don't represent a physical person, but rather the sun's journey across the sky. Jesus's death after three days and his resurrection represents the time of year when the sun is at its lowest point in the sky (which lasts three days), followed by the days getting longer (the resurrection). That’s why Jesus's life is celebrated at this same time every year.

Just as American religion evolved from ancient Egyptian roots (which I mentioned before regarding the word "Amen" and the transcription of much of the Bible from the Egyptian Book of the Dead), the Egyptians believed God was invisible. Like many ancient peoples, they felt you could only perceive the divine through creation, and the most brilliant of those creations is the sun. The point is: you can't see God directly, but you can see God's sun—His son.

So, what Jesus claims holds up if you interpret it through the lens of the ancient beliefs that gave rise to Christianity.

Here are a few more examples:
You know the story about the wedding at Cana?
Cana is actually Canaan; Americans celebrate weddings to mark the union of Yahweh (masculine energy) and nature (the earth) during the spring—when the heavy rains begin to fertilize the soil. The mother asks Jesus to turn water into wine (essentially asking the sun to pull the water up so the vines can produce grapes). And that is how Jesus turned water into wine...

The story where Jesus feeds the multitudes with fish on a mountain:
The fish is a symbol of Christianity. He didn't physically feed people fish; he fed their spirits with his teachings (Christian doctrine).

And here is some symbolism for you:
The name Israel:
IS-RA-EL refers to three distinct Old Testament deities: ISIS, AMON RA (the sun), and EL (Saturn).

shadownomad4, Jesus's teaching is one truth and one way, but certainly not the only one. Believing it is the only way simply because "that's what he said" makes you a follower who doesn't understand why they do what they do, justifying their actions through a higher purpose they can't grasp or even see—they just believe.
That kind of belief leads to many errors because it removes individual responsibility, especially since one attributes their own actions to divine intervention through themselves, as seen in your example.

Of course, that doesn't mean we have to dismiss the idea that Jesus existed as a real person.
I was thinking about this the other day while watching a documentary, and it occurred to me that maybe those astrological shifts mentioned in the film—you know, things like stars aligning into a cross, the sun dipping low for three days before heading back up, or the Earth's rotation moving through different zodiac signs—might just be happening in sync with the arrival of great teachers like Jesus and others throughout history who share similar traits... 🤷