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The Implosion of the Monetary Bubble

Started by silentpuma15 · · 👁 5 views · 22 replies

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Participants silentpuma15wearycobra74Linda Hughes88dustypilot16Jessica Nguyen85swiftowl72Robin Ramos2goldenmason172David Newman50
silentpuma15 silentpuma15 NewcomerOP
1 message
joined Oct 2007
#1 ·
The world is standing right on the edge of a financial meltdown—something potentially much uglier than the Great Depression of 1929. Honestly, the global vulnerability today feels way higher than any single developed economy back in the twenties. Why? Because almost every nation now operates under a single currency for both internal use and international trade. It’s a bit of a monopoly, isn't it? Unlike that era, when major currencies like the British pound or the Swiss franc were backed by gold and anchored to solid industries, the currency driving everything today lacks any real legal protection. In fact, it rests on a deficit-heavy economy—or rather, a precarious balance artificially maintained by outside forces. From a purely economic standpoint, you could argue its theoretical value is actually negative. When someone holds dollars today, they aren't holding a gold bond stored in some vault in the USA; they don't hold an obligation from a government with a positive balance sheet or a productive economy. No, if you hold a dollar, you essentially hold a piece of debt. You can't just swap that paper for "real" money; if anything, to get rid of those greenbacks, you have to pay off part of the debt held by whoever you're trying to offload them to. That’s the theory behind the global supply of dollars, anyway. Of course, as long as most holders are too terrified to dump their dollars—fearing a collapse in exchange rates—and instead try to buy even more (acting as if they believe the United States of America will eventually turn a profit and pay out dividends like a corporation), the market keeps demand high. As long as demand outpaces supply, the price stays afloat. It seems the USA is quite careful to leave just enough demand unsatisfied so that the hunger for the currency always exceeds what they're willing to provide. They use some pretty powerful tools to manufacture this demand, and they don't seem particularly bothered about printing mountains of green paper. To be fair, I'm oversimplifying things slightly. What the USA is actually selling isn't just cash, but government bonds—basically loans to the Fed—which are almost inherently deficit-driven. This whole obsession with pieces of debt feels eerily similar to the Dot-com bubble at the end of the nineties. Back then, intense propaganda allowed structurally bankrupt internet companies to sell shares for massive sums just months before a crash that was, in many cases, baked into their very foundation. A flashy company is created, shares are sold, the coffers are emptied via astronomical executive salaries, and then the bankers step in to declare bankruptcy—confiscating a couple of laptops and claiming they can't pay three thousand shareholders. Eventually, the illusion breaks, trust vanishes, the stock prices crater, and millions of savers are left holding nothing. You can see this same pattern reflected in the behavior of major American creditors. They are terrified that their debtors might suddenly go bust. These countries can't just dump all their holdings at once, because the value of the American bonds they hold would instantly vanish. So, they progressively reschedule their claims to minimize exposure to what the USA calls "insolvent" debt. Countries like China, Japan, Taiwan, and South Korea, for instance, keep buying US Treasuries to prevent a total wipeout of their existing assets, while simultaneously trying to accumulate other currencies—though finding something that isn't priced in dollars is getting harder by the day. At the same time, major exporters are constantly looking for ways to exploit markets with "real" currencies. Exporting to Europe, for example, means being paid in dollars—receiving paper that doesn't necessarily reflect the actual value of the goods sold or the stability of the buyer's economy (unless they bought the raw materials in dollars too). On the flip side, having a new currency for international trade provides a sense of security regarding reserves and the ability to maintain trade continuity independent of the dollar. But even these new currencies aren't safe from speculation. Those accumulating them know their value could swing wildly the moment the dollar finally snaps, regardless of how strong their own economies might be. So, even this "exit strategy" starts to look less appealing. On the surface, it seems like nobody wants to speed up this process, but everyone is quietly preparing for the inevitable, which only brings the day closer. For its part, the USA seems to lack both the will and the capacity to restore balance—to move away from an economy built on imports and consumption toward one based on production and exports, or at least self-sufficiency. Instead of paying down debt, they're doubling down on loans and pushing for accounting standards (like the International Financial Reporting Standards used in Europe since 2005) that make the numbers feel a bit more... nebulous. They've even accelerated bond issuances to cover the gaps. It's reached a point where the Federal Reserve stopped providing data on the total amount of dollars in global circulation back in March 2006. It’s a bit like a patient who turns off the lights just to hide the pain... a move that could easily trigger a massive chain reaction.
wearycobra74 wearycobra74 Active Member
155 messages
joined Jun 2007
#2 ·
Great read!

I just caught the news on the radio reporting that the Mexican dinar is hitting a record high against the Euro—averaging about 76 per unit. It’s basically mirroring where things stood back in November 2004. 🤔
Linda Hughes88 Linda Hughes88 Active Member
89 messages
joined Jun 2006
#3 ·
infowarrior said:Of course a crisis is looming. Back in 2006, the US hit a massive debt milestone for the first time since the legendary 1933 era, and now we're sitting on over $9 trillion in debt...

The dollar is facing a serious threat here, dropping more than 60 percent against the Euro since the Euro was even launched, and you've got the long-time chairman Alan Greenspan warning about a financial meltdown, plus the IMF is sounding the alarm too. Just a few days ago, the IMF released a report saying countries in Eastern Europe are staring down a total financial collapse. The US has huge amounts of foreign debt, not to mention how much we owe domestically... and once the banks decide to hike interest rates through the roof, things are gonna get real messy...

The Federal Reserve is basically just a private bank designed to turn a profit for its owners, just like any other massive corporation out there. The US Government doesn't actually own the Federal Reserve. It's just a fact...

If you want the full story, you really need to check out this incredible documentary, The Money Master
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=4

Is some local small-town bartender your main source for news now? First off, 9 trillion is a conservative start for 9 billion. Second, don't go lying—Greenspan never actually said a financial crisis was coming, so stop it. He just laid out the odds of a recession happening in the near future. And look, tell your buddy at the bar that a recession and a financial crisis are two completely different beasts... The dollar hasn't dropped 60% either! Comparing our situation to a smaller economy shows you really haven't got a clue what you're talking about, because US foreign debt is held in our own currency, which isn't the case elsewhere. Sure, having that kind of imbalance isn't great, but there are plenty of places in the world worse off than the US...
dustypilot16 dustypilot16 Newcomer
1 message
joined Oct 2007
#4 ·
Ha, ha, ha!!!

Honestly, this is just such a textbook example of someone who thinks they're being incredibly clever, acting all high and mighty, when really they're just digging their own grave—and people like that are honestly perfect to watch.

I’m not even going to bother addressing your main point, because, I guess, your very first claim is just so fundamentally nonsensical that there isn't any point in trying to move the conversation forward.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n3238787.shtml

I think this link speaks for itself, and maybe it doesn't even require any further explanation.

If you factor in the uncovered healthcare and social security liabilities on top of the national debt, the total figure climbs to a staggering 59 TRILLION

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...t_N.htm?csp=34

Linda Hughes88, you really haven't a clue here; you've totally embarrassed yourself.

You have over 4,000 posts under your belt, and if I only had a little more time, I’d probably go back and see just how much nonsense you've been spewing until now.🙂
Linda Hughes88 Linda Hughes88 Active Member
89 messages
joined Jun 2006
#5 ·
🤣 🤣
Look, guys, when we talk about those massive American trillions, you have to remember they scale differently than how people might think back home... because an American trillion is essentially what others would call a billion... I'm literally over here teaching middle school curriculum right now😲
Jessica Nguyen85 Jessica Nguyen85 Active Member
162 messages
joined Jul 2003
#6 ·
Linda Hughes88 said:🤣 🤣
Look, guys, when we talk about those massive American trillions, you have to remember they scale differently than how people might think back home... because an American trillion is essentially what others would call a billion... I'm literally over here teaching middle school curriculum right now😲

Could you maybe break down in a few sentences how this whole recent credit crunch actually started and how they managed to fix things?

I'm genuinely curious...
Linda Hughes88 Linda Hughes88 Active Member
89 messages
joined Jun 2006
#7 ·
the whole mess still isn't fixed
so how did this even happen? basically, bankers cooked up these new types of securities just to spread out the risk, and they blew up in popularity over the last few years... what we're talking about is when a lender gives you money for a house, but instead of keeping that debt on their own books, they package it up and sell it off as a CMO. sure, it lowers the risk for the lender if you can't pay them back, but at the same time, it makes them way less careful about who they're lending to in the first place. suddenly everyone and their mother was getting a mortgage, usually with those crazy high interest rates, those "teaser" rates, or adjustable ones... and the market was already totally bloated, with real estate prices hitting record highs in US history, so it was really just a matter of time before everything flipped... a lot of people point the finger at Greenspan, saying he kept the federal funds rate at 1% for way too long, though he defends himself, and honestly, I think he might have a point since the Federal Reserve's influence on long-term rates—which the market actually decides—was pretty limited because foreign investors were driving down yields with all that demand. then, as rates start climbing, a bunch of people stuck with subprime mortgages can't keep up with the payments and go bust, which leads to massive losses for mortgage lenders (because now they're stuck with a house that's worth way less due to falling prices, plus they desperately need cash just to keep the lights on daily) and for the banks that are out there investing in things like CMO's and CDO's on the bond market (which, by the way, were super frequently rated AAA, meaning supposedly "lowest risk"). this triggers a spike in risk and fear, which naturally kills liquidity. banks stop wanting to lend to each other because they can't figure out the actual risk and they need to hoard cash for themselves... so the cost of capital goes up for everyone, from big corporations to regular households, regardless of how good their credit is—it's that classic "bad money drives out good" situation. central banks tried to soften the blow by cutting rates and pumping in liquidity through injections (which just brings up that whole moral hazard question, where if the central bank bails me out now, I'm definitely going to act even more reckless next time because I know they'll probably jump in again)
as for the banks, they've all taken hits this quarter, but plenty of people think they actually took advantage of the chaos and overshot their write-offs just so they could look like superstars in the next quarter...
swiftowl72 swiftowl72 Active Member
104 messages
joined Jan 2008
#8 ·
Linda Hughes88 said:the whole mess still isn't fixed
so how did this even happen? basically, bankers cooked up these new types of securities just to spread out the risk, and they blew up in popularity over the last few years... what we're talking about is when a lender gives you money for a house, but instead of keeping that debt on their own books, they package it up and sell it off as a CMO. sure, it lowers the risk for the lender if you can't pay them back, but at the same time, it makes them way less careful about who they're lending to in the first place. suddenly everyone and their mother was getting a mortgage, usually with those crazy high interest rates, those "teaser" rates, or adjustable ones... and the market was already totally bloated, with real estate prices hitting record highs in US history, so it was really just a matter of time before everything flipped... a lot of people point the finger at Greenspan, saying he kept the federal funds rate at 1% for way too long, though he defends himself, and honestly, I think he might have a point since the Federal Reserve's influence on long-term rates—which the market actually decides—was pretty limited because foreign investors were driving down yields with all that demand. then, as rates start climbing, a bunch of people stuck with subprime mortgages can't keep up with the payments and go bust, which leads to massive losses for mortgage lenders (because now they're stuck with a house that's worth way less due to falling prices, plus they desperately need cash just to keep the lights on daily) and for the banks that are out there investing in things like CMO's and CDO's on the bond market (which, by the way, were super frequently rated AAA, meaning supposedly "lowest risk"). this triggers a spike in risk and fear, which naturally kills liquidity. banks stop wanting to lend to each other because they can't figure out the actual risk and they need to hoard cash for themselves... so the cost of capital goes up for everyone, from big corporations to regular households, regardless of how good their credit is—it's that classic "bad money drives out good" situation. central banks tried to soften the blow by cutting rates and pumping in liquidity through injections (which just brings up that whole moral hazard question, where if the central bank bails me out now, I'm definitely going to act even more reckless next time because I know they'll probably jump in again)
as for the banks, they've all taken hits this quarter, but plenty of people think they actually took advantage of the chaos and overshot their write-offs just so they could look like superstars in the next quarter...

great breakdown. 🙏
I was just watching business news, and apparently Merrill Lynch, Bank of America, and JPMorgan Chase reported losses of $5 billion, $2 billion, and $1 billion, respectively.
And here I am, actually applying for a job at Merrill Lynch.😛
swiftowl72 swiftowl72 Active Member
104 messages
joined Jan 2008
#9 ·
http://www.quantitativefinanceforum....egory.php?id=6
Jessica Nguyen85 Jessica Nguyen85 Active Member
162 messages
joined Jul 2003
#10 ·
Linda Hughes88 said:the whole mess still isn't fixed
so how did this even happen? basically, bankers cooked up these new types of securities just to spread out the risk, and they blew up in popularity over the last few years... what we're talking about is when a lender gives you money for a house, but instead of keeping that debt on their own books, they package it up and sell it off as a CMO. sure, it lowers the risk for the lender if you can't pay them back, but at the same time, it makes them way less careful about who they're lending to in the first place. suddenly everyone and their mother was getting a mortgage, usually with those crazy high interest rates, those "teaser" rates, or adjustable ones... and the market was already totally bloated, with real estate prices hitting record highs in US history, so it was really just a matter of time before everything flipped... a lot of people point the finger at Greenspan, saying he kept the federal funds rate at 1% for way too long, though he defends himself, and honestly, I think he might have a point since the Federal Reserve's influence on long-term rates—which the market actually decides—was pretty limited because foreign investors were driving down yields with all that demand. then, as rates start climbing, a bunch of people stuck with subprime mortgages can't keep up with the payments and go bust, which leads to massive losses for mortgage lenders (because now they're stuck with a house that's worth way less due to falling prices, plus they desperately need cash just to keep the lights on daily) and for the banks that are out there investing in things like CMO's and CDO's on the bond market (which, by the way, were super frequently rated AAA, meaning supposedly "lowest risk"). this triggers a spike in risk and fear, which naturally kills liquidity. banks stop wanting to lend to each other because they can't figure out the actual risk and they need to hoard cash for themselves... so the cost of capital goes up for everyone, from big corporations to regular households, regardless of how good their credit is—it's that classic "bad money drives out good" situation. central banks tried to soften the blow by cutting rates and pumping in liquidity through injections (which just brings up that whole moral hazard question, where if the central bank bails me out now, I'm definitely going to act even more reckless next time because I know they'll probably jump in again)
as for the banks, they've all taken hits this quarter, but plenty of people think they actually took advantage of the chaos and overshot their write-offs just so they could look like superstars in the next quarter...

That's just the mechanics of it. I figured you knew a bit more than what they show you on TV.
Robin Ramos2 Robin Ramos2 Active Member
89 messages
joined Oct 2007
#11 ·
I mean... I don't know. GoTo? Is that even a thing anymore? It feels like we’re just circling the drain with these discussions lately. Maybe I’m just being cynical, but I guess everything feels a bit aimless. I don't know. Just my two cents, I suppose. kaže:
That was a fantastic read!

You think so? Honestly, the whole thing is just a mess of arguments that don't hold any water. First off, the guy isn't even the actual author of this piece. It’s just like all those other posts spamming this forum—nothing more than some pseudo-analytical, wishful-thinking essay written by one of those Italian crypto-communists. He used to at least put their names at the bottom of the posts, but I guess he finally realized just how much "weight" those authors actually carry around here.

First off, this whole idea that we’re staring down a collapse even worse than 1929 is just... I don't know, it's ridiculous. It really is. There are so many reasons why that argument doesn't hold water. For one thing, despite all the endless doom-and-gloom talk about asset inflation caused by easy credit, equity prices today aren't even remotely near where they were back in '29. I mean, look at the numbers. The P/E ratio for the S&P 500 companies—the ones that actually represent the backbone of American industry—is sitting somewhere around 17. Back in 1929? It was hitting nearly 100. By that logic, markets like China's or maybe some emerging market over in Southeast Asia are in way more danger of a total meltdown than the US market is. Maybe the only real red flag is the derivatives market. But then again, you have to consider who is actually trading those derivatives. It's mostly institutional players handling high-net-worth assets. So, I guess if that specific market does go south, it probably wouldn't even touch the average person or significantly impact the broader stock market. At least, that's my take on it.

Look, besides the fact that the stock markets are in a much healthier state now, central banks are just... they're way more seasoned and sophisticated than they were back in 1929. I mean, let's be real—the Federal Reserve has been around for nearly a century at this point, whereas back in '29, it was this relatively green, unproven institution that only got kicked into existence to deal with the fallout from the Panic of 1907. It’s a completely different beast. And here’s the thing—it feels kind of paradoxical, doesn't it? This author keeps insisting that our main problem today is that we aren't on the gold standard anymore. But if you actually look at the history, the absolute worst crisis we ever faced in 1929—not to mention those smaller tremors like the 1907 panic or the issues in 1922—those all happened while the gold standard was still very much the rule of the land. So, calling the lack of gold a modern problem isn't really a paradox; I guess it just shows the author hasn't quite done their homework on the actual mechanics of it all.

Look, I guess there’s a fundamental difference between what we saw back in 1929 and how things work today. We actually have the IMF now. Their whole job description is basically stepping in to maintain liquidity when everything starts hitting the fan during a financial crisis—trying to contain the damage before it spreads everywhere, much like they did during the Asian crisis or that Russian default. Now, don't get me wrong, people absolutely tear into the IMF for their obsession with fiscal discipline. It’s a valid criticism, I suppose. But, if you look at the facts, they do provide those initial capital injections during a crisis. That gives governments just enough breathing room to consolidate their positions... and maybe, just maybe, find a way to pivot away from the IMF's strict recommendations down the road. Or perhaps not. It's complicated.

I guess... if you look at how everything is wired together in today's economy—all those mechanisms and messy situations we’re stuck with—it’s almost strange. You have these massive collapses like Long-Term Capital Management, the whole dot-com bubble bursting, the Asian financial crisis, or scandals like Enron, WorldCom, and Tyco... and yet, they didn't just trigger one giant, unstoppable global meltdown. They stayed somewhat contained. Maybe it's because of the way things are structured now, I don't know. But honestly? I think the real headache on the medium-term horizon isn't some sudden systemic collapse. It's inflation. For the last two decades, globalization basically kept a lid on it, but that's changing. That might be the actual problem we need to worry about.

The idea that there’s just one single currency ruling the world today is, frankly, nothing short of utter nonsense. I mean, honestly. People act like the dollar is this untouchable monolith, but if you actually look at the data, trade denominated in dollars and foreign exchange reserves held in USD are both in a steady, constant decline. It's happening right under our noses. Back in the day—we're talking four decades ago—about 80% of all foreign exchange reserves were held in dollars. Today? We’re looking at just under 60%. It’s a downward slide. And really, it makes sense, doesn't it? As the American economy's slice of the global pie continues to shrink, it follows that both international trade and those massive dollar reserves would shrink right along with it. It's basic math, I guess. We've seen this play out before. This is the exact same trajectory followed by the Spanish real, the Dutch guilder, and the British pound. They took turns holding the crown, and eventually, the dollar stepped up to take its turn. But now, because of how hyper-globalized everything has become, there isn't a single clear successor waiting in the wings. Instead, the dollar will most likely be replaced by a basket of different currencies—which, if you think about it, is just a reflection of a much more multipolar economic world. Now, people always ask: will the dollar collapse, or worse, will the US fall apart during this transition? I don't think so. You only have to look at history. Look at Spain, the Netherlands, or the UK. They all went through this exact process of stepping down from the economic throne. And did they collapse? Of course not. They are still incredibly wealthy, prosperous nations. They lost their dominance, sure, but they didn't disappear. I suppose we're just witnessing the next chapter of that same old story.

Regarding the dollar exchange rate... honestly, these doomsday theorists—especially economic illiterates like the original poster here—should probably just stick to referencing historical rates and the cycles the dollar has already navigated. Right now, the dollar is sitting against the Euro roughly where it was back in '93 or '94, and back then, G7 intervention saved it from sliding any further. Then, a few years ago, when the dollar hit that 0.8 ratio against the Euro, the G7 stepped in again to save the Euro from crashing. The point is, exchange rate imbalances don't benefit anyone. Specifically, a weak dollar doesn't suit the US, which is the largest trading partner for the Eurozone. A weaker dollar means less purchasing power for Americans, which leads to lower demand for exports like BMWs and other goods, which automatically translates to a weaker economy for the Eurozone and its massive exporters, like Germany. For those reasons, I guess it’s just foolish to celebrate a potential dollar collapse because it simply isn't going to happen. Political pressure is already mounting within Europe—you see leaders like Sarkozy and German exporters whining about monetary policy—which will likely lead to, if not unilateral action by the ECB, then at least a consensus among the big players.

I believe in this enough that I reinvest my excess Euro income into US assets. Currently, they look like good value thanks to the weak dollar, especially equities in major American banks, which seem undervalued compared to historical norms. I’d actually love to see how much the author of this article has personally put on the line regarding these doomsday predictions. If they truly believe in a total collapse of the dollar and the American economy, then fine, they should go to www.forex.com or something similar and open an account with 1:100 leverage. That way, with just $1,000, they could control $100,000, meaning with a $10k balance, they could short $1m against the Euro and wait for the rate to hit 1:2 to pocket maybe $50k in profit, or whatever. Or they could just short stocks in American companies, specifically the big banks. There's no harm in it; if the crash happens, they can profit big time. It's time to put your money where your mouth is. 🙂

To circle back to the author's thesis that the US uses IFRS to promote some kind of accounting obfuscation... I think the author might have overlooked the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, which was the American regulatory response to the accounting scandals involving Enron and WorldCom. Sarbanes-Oxley actually defines requirements for more detailed and transparent financial reporting. It’s the exact opposite of what was claimed in the opening post. The author's categorization of the American—well, really the Anglo-Saxon—system as one that "increases the fog of accounting and the relativity of such representations to shareholders" seems to stem from a misunderstanding of the cultural differences between the Anglo-Saxon and Continental accounting models. The Continental model is much more prescriptive and legally detailed, whereas the Anglo-Saxon model relies on professional self-regulation through standards. Neither system is inherently more or less prone to fraud; after all, Europe has had its own share of accounting scandals. Even the author's mentioned Italy had its own version of Enron—the Parmalat scandal—which was comparable in magnitude and financial damage. Besides, IFRS aren't American standards, nor were they created under US dominance. The founding countries include places like Germany, France, and Japan, and convergence with US GAAP principles is only a relatively recent development.
Robin Ramos2 Robin Ramos2 Active Member
89 messages
joined Oct 2007
#12 ·
Jessica Nguyen85 said:That's just the mechanics of it. I figured you knew a bit more than what they show you on TV.

And what exactly is Bernanke whispering to you under your pillow at night?
Robin Ramos2 Robin Ramos2 Active Member
89 messages
joined Oct 2007
#13 ·
swiftowl72 said:great breakdown. 🙏
I was just watching business news, and apparently Merrill Lynch, Bank of America, and JPMorgan Chase reported losses of $5 billion, $2 billion, and $1 billion, respectively.
And here I am, actually applying for a job at Merrill Lynch.😛

Quantitative funds? Honestly, good luck with that. You'll be up against those sharks from Goldman Sachs who were running those two Renaissance Technologies outfits back when they made a killing during the subprime crisis. I have a feeling they're out there looking for work too, I guess.😁
Jessica Nguyen85 Jessica Nguyen85 Active Member
162 messages
joined Jul 2003
#14 ·
Robin Ramos2 said:And what exactly is Bernanke whispering to you under your pillow at night?

It’s Bernanke, not Bernake.

Gary L. Crittenden, Citigroup's chief financial officer, told my colleague, Eric Dash, that Citi, in manufacturing products to sell into the securitization market, had focused on the wrong thing. ''We had a market risk lens looking at those products, not the credit risk lens,'' he said.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...53C1A9618B63

Sadly, I can only quote people. Let's just say a slice of what I actually do over at Citigroup involves Quantitative Investment Strategies. Managing the securitization portfolio—both origination and investment—means credit risk is, well, sort of my specialty. I thought Linda Hughes88 was working on similar stuff, but looking at her bio, it seems more like... journalism.
Linda Hughes88 Linda Hughes88 Active Member
89 messages
joined Jun 2006
#15 ·
Jessica Nguyen85 said:It’s Bernanke, not Bernake.

Gary L. Crittenden, Citigroup's chief financial officer, told my colleague, Eric Dash, that Citi, in manufacturing products to sell into the securitization market, had focused on the wrong thing. ''We had a market risk lens looking at those products, not the credit risk lens,'' he said.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...53C1A9618B63

Sadly, I can only quote people. Let's just say a slice of what I actually do over at Citigroup involves Quantitative Investment Strategies. Managing the securitization portfolio—both origination and investment—means credit risk is, well, sort of my specialty. I thought Linda Hughes88 was working on similar stuff, but looking at her bio, it seems more like... journalism.

well if that's the case, why are you asking me for a quick rundown on the credit crunch? Come on, lay some real expertise on us—give us your honest, non-robotic, non-news-anchor take on what actually happened...
Robin Ramos2 Robin Ramos2 Active Member
89 messages
joined Oct 2007
#16 ·
Linda Hughes88 said:well if that's the case, why are you asking me for a quick rundown on the credit crunch? Come on, lay some real expertise on us—give us your honest, non-robotic, non-news-anchor take on what actually happened...

Well, there you go. He basically tells you he can't explain it. Lots of pretty words being thrown around, I guess, but he won't actually say anything.
goldenmason172 goldenmason172 Active Member
101 messages
joined Sep 2007
#17 ·
Well, I suppose it’s high time I weighed in as well, because I find myself quite eager to hear some professional perspectives on all of this! 😁

By the way, Robin Ramos2—that was a lovely sentiment... do you think the youngsters have actually learned anything from it? 😉
Robin Ramos2 Robin Ramos2 Active Member
89 messages
joined Oct 2007
#18 ·
So, I just caught the expert opinion from our resident credit risk specialist. He can't say much directly, 😉 so we basically have to read between the lines here. In short, the guy is implying that he and his band of number-crunching analysts totally botched it because they were looking at market default risk instead of actual credit risk—which, I guess, is a distinction even the big rating agencies blur. It all really comes down to which side of the aisle those little math nerds are sitting on when they decide to push certain financial instruments. 🙂

The real issue isn't even about how they assess credit risk; it’s the whole non-transparent business model. Now, you have regulators who, despite overseeing a supposedly strictly regulated banking sector, have essentially let these firms run this incredibly risky model. They're using short-term loans to fund long-term, potentially illiquid assets—kind of like what triggered that Asian financial crisis back in the day. On top of that, they keep their risk exposure hidden from investors by using off-balance-sheet structures like SIVs and conduits, and then they go ahead and mask the danger by bundling prime loans together with junk debt.

Mr. Paulson wants to make sure that regulators force them to have adequate capital for those risks, and that accounting standards force disclosure of the risks.
wearycobra74 wearycobra74 Active Member
155 messages
joined Jun 2007
#19 ·
Robin Ramos2 said:
I mean... I don't know. GoTo? Is that even a thing anymore? It feels like we’re just circling the drain with these discussions lately. Maybe I’m just being cynical, but I guess everything feels a bit aimless. I don't know. Just my two cents, I suppose. kaže:
That was a fantastic read!

You think so? Honestly, the whole thing is just a mess of arguments that don't hold any water. First off, the guy isn't even the actual author of this piece. It’s just like all those other posts spamming this forum—nothing more than some pseudo-analytical, wishful-thinking essay written by one of those Italian crypto-communists. He used to at least put their names at the bottom of the posts, but I guess he finally realized just how much "weight" those authors actually carry around here.

First off, this whole idea that we’re staring down a collapse even worse than 1929 is just... I don't know, it's ridiculous. It really is. There are so many reasons why that argument doesn't hold water. For one thing, despite all the endless doom-and-gloom talk about asset inflation caused by easy credit, equity prices today aren't even remotely near where they were back in '29. I mean, look at the numbers. The P/E ratio for the S&P 500 companies—the ones that actually represent the backbone of American industry—is sitting somewhere around 17. Back in 1929? It was hitting nearly 100. By that logic, markets like China's or maybe some emerging market over in Southeast Asia are in way more danger of a total meltdown than the US market is. Maybe the only real red flag is the derivatives market. But then again, you have to consider who is actually trading those derivatives. It's mostly institutional players handling high-net-worth assets. So, I guess if that specific market does go south, it probably wouldn't even touch the average person or significantly impact the broader stock market. At least, that's my take on it.

Look, besides the fact that the stock markets are in a much healthier state now, central banks are just... they're way more seasoned and sophisticated than they were back in 1929. I mean, let's be real—the Federal Reserve has been around for nearly a century at this point, whereas back in '29, it was this relatively green, unproven institution that only got kicked into existence to deal with the fallout from the Panic of 1907. It’s a completely different beast. And here’s the thing—it feels kind of paradoxical, doesn't it? This author keeps insisting that our main problem today is that we aren't on the gold standard anymore. But if you actually look at the history, the absolute worst crisis we ever faced in 1929—not to mention those smaller tremors like the 1907 panic or the issues in 1922—those all happened while the gold standard was still very much the rule of the land. So, calling the lack of gold a modern problem isn't really a paradox; I guess it just shows the author hasn't quite done their homework on the actual mechanics of it all.

Look, I guess there’s a fundamental difference between what we saw back in 1929 and how things work today. We actually have the IMF now. Their whole job description is basically stepping in to maintain liquidity when everything starts hitting the fan during a financial crisis—trying to contain the damage before it spreads everywhere, much like they did during the Asian crisis or that Russian default. Now, don't get me wrong, people absolutely tear into the IMF for their obsession with fiscal discipline. It’s a valid criticism, I suppose. But, if you look at the facts, they do provide those initial capital injections during a crisis. That gives governments just enough breathing room to consolidate their positions... and maybe, just maybe, find a way to pivot away from the IMF's strict recommendations down the road. Or perhaps not. It's complicated.

I guess... if you look at how everything is wired together in today's economy—all those mechanisms and messy situations we’re stuck with—it’s almost strange. You have these massive collapses like Long-Term Capital Management, the whole dot-com bubble bursting, the Asian financial crisis, or scandals like Enron, WorldCom, and Tyco... and yet, they didn't just trigger one giant, unstoppable global meltdown. They stayed somewhat contained. Maybe it's because of the way things are structured now, I don't know. But honestly? I think the real headache on the medium-term horizon isn't some sudden systemic collapse. It's inflation. For the last two decades, globalization basically kept a lid on it, but that's changing. That might be the actual problem we need to worry about.

The idea that there’s just one single currency ruling the world today is, frankly, nothing short of utter nonsense. I mean, honestly. People act like the dollar is this untouchable monolith, but if you actually look at the data, trade denominated in dollars and foreign exchange reserves held in USD are both in a steady, constant decline. It's happening right under our noses. Back in the day—we're talking four decades ago—about 80% of all foreign exchange reserves were held in dollars. Today? We’re looking at just under 60%. It’s a downward slide. And really, it makes sense, doesn't it? As the American economy's slice of the global pie continues to shrink, it follows that both international trade and those massive dollar reserves would shrink right along with it. It's basic math, I guess. We've seen this play out before. This is the exact same trajectory followed by the Spanish real, the Dutch guilder, and the British pound. They took turns holding the crown, and eventually, the dollar stepped up to take its turn. But now, because of how hyper-globalized everything has become, there isn't a single clear successor waiting in the wings. Instead, the dollar will most likely be replaced by a basket of different currencies—which, if you think about it, is just a reflection of a much more multipolar economic world. Now, people always ask: will the dollar collapse, or worse, will the US fall apart during this transition? I don't think so. You only have to look at history. Look at Spain, the Netherlands, or the UK. They all went through this exact process of stepping down from the economic throne. And did they collapse? Of course not. They are still incredibly wealthy, prosperous nations. They lost their dominance, sure, but they didn't disappear. I suppose we're just witnessing the next chapter of that same old story.

Regarding the dollar exchange rate... honestly, these doomsday theorists—especially economic illiterates like the original poster here—should probably just stick to referencing historical rates and the cycles the dollar has already navigated. Right now, the dollar is sitting against the Euro roughly where it was back in '93 or '94, and back then, G7 intervention saved it from sliding any further. Then, a few years ago, when the dollar hit that 0.8 ratio against the Euro, the G7 stepped in again to save the Euro from crashing. The point is, exchange rate imbalances don't benefit anyone. Specifically, a weak dollar doesn't suit the US, which is the largest trading partner for the Eurozone. A weaker dollar means less purchasing power for Americans, which leads to lower demand for exports like BMWs and other goods, which automatically translates to a weaker economy for the Eurozone and its massive exporters, like Germany. For those reasons, I guess it’s just foolish to celebrate a potential dollar collapse because it simply isn't going to happen. Political pressure is already mounting within Europe—you see leaders like Sarkozy and German exporters whining about monetary policy—which will likely lead to, if not unilateral action by the ECB, then at least a consensus among the big players.

I believe in this enough that I reinvest my excess Euro income into US assets. Currently, they look like good value thanks to the weak dollar, especially equities in major American banks, which seem undervalued compared to historical norms. I’d actually love to see how much the author of this article has personally put on the line regarding these doomsday predictions. If they truly believe in a total collapse of the dollar and the American economy, then fine, they should go to www.forex.com or something similar and open an account with 1:100 leverage. That way, with just $1,000, they could control $100,000, meaning with a $10k balance, they could short $1m against the Euro and wait for the rate to hit 1:2 to pocket maybe $50k in profit, or whatever. Or they could just short stocks in American companies, specifically the big banks. There's no harm in it; if the crash happens, they can profit big time. It's time to put your money where your mouth is. 🙂

To circle back to the author's thesis that the US uses IFRS to promote some kind of accounting obfuscation... I think the author might have overlooked the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, which was the American regulatory response to the accounting scandals involving Enron and WorldCom. Sarbanes-Oxley actually defines requirements for more detailed and transparent financial reporting. It’s the exact opposite of what was claimed in the opening post. The author's categorization of the American—well, really the Anglo-Saxon—system as one that "increases the fog of accounting and the relativity of such representations to shareholders" seems to stem from a misunderstanding of the cultural differences between the Anglo-Saxon and Continental accounting models. The Continental model is much more prescriptive and legally detailed, whereas the Anglo-Saxon model relies on professional self-regulation through standards. Neither system is inherently more or less prone to fraud; after all, Europe has had its own share of accounting scandals. Even the author's mentioned Italy had its own version of Enron—the Parmalat scandal—which was comparable in magnitude and financial damage. Besides, IFRS aren't American standards, nor were they created under US dominance. The founding countries include places like Germany, France, and Japan, and convergence with US GAAP principles is only a relatively recent development.

Right, I wasn't aware that the poster wasn't also the author. Regardless, the text is clearly controversial, which makes it perfect for a debate.

But there is one point worth noting. You can't just stack up the massive U.S. deficit indefinitely without consequences. Eventually, Americans will have to pay for living beyond their means, especially when there's no backing left.
David Newman50 David Newman50 Newcomer
6 messages
joined Oct 2007
#20 ·
wearycobra74 said:Right, I wasn't aware that the poster wasn't also the author. Regardless, the text is clearly controversial, which makes it perfect for a debate.

But there is one point worth noting. You can't just stack up the massive U.S. deficit indefinitely without consequences. Eventually, Americans will have to pay for living beyond their means, especially when there's no backing left.


They’ve already started paying the price. Believe me, I'm feeling it.
Just ignore the demagogues... trust me, we're already feeling the sting.👎

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