Deloitte mortgage rates

I grabbed a loan back in April last year and honestly, there wasn't even an appraisal required... nor did I have to deal with any extra fees or those annoying prorated interest charges...

Hey Donna Chase12, when you were running those three comparisons, you really should’ve kept everything constant—same loan amount, same term length, and either zero down payment across the board or a flat 10% for all of them... otherwise, you aren't actually getting a fair comparison.

That’s exactly how I tackled it... and even though Chase or Wells Fargo might have looked better at first glance because of those lower paper rates, it ended up being basically the same monthly payment in the end. Plus, I would've ended up paying way more over the life of the loan with them than I did with my choice—and that’s assuming interest rates don't spike... which, let's be real, we've seen happen since last summer. Not to mention, they didn't offer the specific flexibility I actually need.

Look, if you truly think you landed a better deal... honestly, good for you. But it would be a huge help if you stuck to the actual facts and provided apples-to-apples comparisons when you're posting stuff like this... just for the sake of people who are still out there trying to figure out their own mortgage options.👍

Look, those extra fees are baked right into the APR!!! That’s exactly my point—you have absolutely no idea what you're actually paying for! Their math, like taking (loan amount/0.6)*0.415% to figure out the monthly payment for a 24-year K60 model, sounds completely unprofessional to me. You’re basically flying blind on what makes up that total cost. I tried running the numbers for the APR on that specific loan, and I ended up with about 6.78%. I know Benjamin Barnes6 mentioned something similar before, though I can't quite recall the exact figure from your situation. For my loan at NYSE, it comes out to 4.94%.
I’m really not trying to start an argument here, but I honestly think you could have found a better deal at NYSE. I’ve heard this from two different people now—one person realized it right after their loan went through, and another actually went over to NYSE and secured a much better rate there. Unless they had some special promotional terms running last year, that is. From what I understand about NYSE, they had a lower interest rate during the inter-financing period last year, and the maximum term was 20 years. Now, they've dropped it to 15. They explained that offering a fixed rate for such a long stretch is just too risky for them.
If you don't mind me asking, how much did you end up borrowing, what's your monthly payment, and how many years is the term?

It’s no secret... I think I’ve mentioned this somewhere else before
$80k, 17 years, and 11 months left—fixed at $650 a month.

Donna Chase12 said:Hey Donna Chase12, when you were running those three comparisons, you really should’ve kept everything constant—same loan amount, same term length, and either zero down payment across the board or a flat 10% for all of them... otherwise, you aren't actually getting a fair comparison.

That’s exactly how I tackled it... and even though Chase or Wells Fargo might have looked better at first glance because of those lower paper rates, it ended up being basically the same monthly payment in the end. Plus, I would've ended up paying way more over the life of the loan with them than I did with my choice—and that’s assuming interest rates don't spike... which, let's be real, we've seen happen since last summer. Not to mention, they didn't offer the specific flexibility I actually need.

Look, if you truly think you landed a better deal... honestly, good for you. But it would be a huge help if you stuck to the actual facts and provided apples-to-apples comparisons when you're posting stuff like this... just for the sake of people who are still out there trying to figure out their own mortgage options.👍

So, my wife sat down with her contact over at Winston-Salem to run some numbers on a $115,000 loan. She looked at two different paths. First option: instead of putting cash toward a down payment, we’d take the money from my three savings accounts over at the NFL—and hey, they claim you can transfer funds between branches without any fees, though I always take that with a grain of salt! If we went that route, the monthly payment would be about $754 for a term of 22 years and 4 months. The second option was to pull that savings money out and toss in an extra $4,000 as a down payment. That brings the monthly payment up to $796, but it shaves the timeline down significantly to just 18 years. Interestingly enough, when she crunched the numbers for that special low-interest loan meant for pharmacists (at 5.55%), the monthly payment ended up being exactly the same for that same duration. But here’s the kicker: with that specific loan, I wouldn't have to touch a single cent of my own cash, so my savings stay perfectly intact! After seeing those figures, I'm officially washing my hands of Winston-Salem. I'm moving on to more research. If I can somehow scrape together $20,000 and fold it into a 15-year NFL plan, I might find a better way—though honestly, a higher monthly payment than what I've listed here would be absolutely brutal for my budget.

Donna Chase12 said:It’s no secret... I think I’ve mentioned this somewhere else before
$80k, 17 years, and 11 months left—fixed at $650 a month.

From what I can tell, that looks like the K100 model. If my memory serves me right, that one is a bit cheaper than the K60. Also, if I'm not mistaken, if you were looking at a loan like that today, the repayment term would likely be set at 19 years. It seems like lending conditions have shifted quite a bit lately! In this case, the interest rate is sitting around 5.7%.
My wife actually ran the numbers for a $115,000 loan, which comes out to $863 a month for 16 years and 10 months, assuming we factor in my own savings toward the principal. Well, I went ahead and crunched those same numbers using an NFL credit union's rates, assuming the repayment period stayed identical.
If you go through Winston-Salem, the total repayment amounts to 176052 USD
But with the NFL credit union, the total comes to 167804 USDLooking at the NFL option,
And Donna Chase12, please, no hard feelings! I just wanted to lay it all out there first so others might find it helpful when they're looking to take out a mortgage. And honestly, even for you, because I am incredibly stubborn when I know I'm right! Once I get going, I’ll happily stay up until 1:00 AM typing endless strings of digits into a calculator just because Excel is acting up and won't cooperate with me. But hey, in the end, I proved my point.
Cheers everyone, I'm stepping away from this debate now. Though, if anyone has had better luck with the other two banks, please let me know—though maybe it's better to leave well enough alone at this point.

don't worry, I've got zero hard feelings here
those deposit options were a complete non-starter for me—I actually managed to corner my guy over at Winston-Salem and walk him through the math. Based on my specific situation (which obviously doesn't apply to everyone), I proved it made way more sense to just put my own cash toward an investor and take out a smaller loan rather than tying up money in a deposit with them.

honestly, I don't buy that my current monthly payment would have been locked in at 19 years. They didn't hike the interest rates; they just stretched that specific rate model out to 20 years... which is whatever, I guess. Like, you don't *have* to go for 20, but the option is there if you want it.
of course, I can't say that for certain since I haven't sat down with them lately, but I'm really skeptical about what you said—not that I have official info or anything, just a hunch.

and hey, no need to bail on the conversation... we aren't kids. We're just looking for info, and even though we've already taken out our loans, that doesn't mean we can't help someone else out by sharing what we learned.

I'm just trying to wrap my head around it... how much did you actually pull out? Was it $95,000, or was part of that a deposit? Or was it $115,000? I'm curious about the actual amount you took home.
And I think if you’d asked Winston-Salem to run the numbers for three different people without any deposit involved, the whole scenario would have looked totally different.
One more thing... when you calculated that lower return for the NFL, were you including the deposit in those numbers or leaving it out?

I seriously grilled them. The guy had to run calculations with deposits, without deposits, for single contracts, multiple contracts—this, that, and the other. I eventually sat down, compared everything, and hit him with a million questions. It took a good few months of all that back-and-forth before I finally pulled the trigger with them.
In the meantime, I was doing the exact same thing with a couple of other banks that caught my eye at the time.
For me, the NFL option wasn't interesting at all because of that 10% deposit requirement and the short repayment window.
But for someone else, maybe like you, that might be exactly what works.

At the end of the day, it's just not right to claim the NFL is "better," because for some people, it isn't.
Just like I'm not saying Winston-Salem is better, since it clearly wasn't the right fit for you.
I'll say it again: their terms worked better for me and I stand by that. It's not about being proud or arrogant or anything like that... it's just the facts.

Look, I didn't actually go with the deposit option—that’s not what happened at all! I had $7,500 of my own savings tucked away, and then I added another $3,000 on top just to ensure I hit that 10% threshold for the loan. That isn't a "deposit" in the technical sense. A deposit is a credit security instrument that the bank holds onto, which they can dip into if the borrower completely messes up. You either get it back once the loan is fully paid off, or you use it to shave time off the repayment period—basically, those final installments get covered by it.
A total of exactly $95,000 was deposited into the investor account. I have gone back and crunched every single number—I mean, every single cent! I accounted for everything I put in, including that opening fee I paid way back in 2003 when I first set up the savings account. Every penny is right there in my math. So, I totaled my monthly payments multiplied by the number of months, added my initial savings, tacked on the extra $3,000 I contributed to hit that 10% mark, and included the bridge financing fees—not that I want to list them all again! All told, it comes out to that $130,000-plus figure, just to repeat myself.

The lady over at Winston-Salem was calculating based on three different savings accounts. My reasoning was that if I were taking a loan through them, I could simply transfer my funds from my NFL savings over to Winston-Salem whenever I wanted. You can move your assets from one savings institution to another at any time without paying a dime in fees. I even suggested including three more people in the calculation because I have two kids who don't have savings yet, and my husband's account expired last year, so I had three valid Social Security numbers ready to go. She told me it wouldn't be worth it because it would drive up the total KTA (total credit amount), and apparently, it’s more advantageous if you've been saving consistently for a while. She also ran the numbers for me without using my specific savings against the bulk of the loan—that would have been the deposit route. In that scenario, I’d pull the money out of savings, and that cash plus another $4,000 would act as the security instrument. If we did it that way, the mortgage ratio would be 1:1.2 instead of 1:1.3, which shortens the term... honestly, we talked about everything under the sun! As I said, the woman at Winston-Salem is incredibly sharp, creative, and capable; she thought of every possible angle. This is a far cry from the NFL agent, who couldn't even manage to run the calculations for my proposals, let alone brainstorm various combinations.
In reality, I only put in $3,000 in cold, hard cash. The rest was just the accumulated balance from my housing savings, which I wouldn't be able to touch right now anyway. Technically, I *could* withdraw it, but I wouldn't earn the interest, and I’d likely end up with less than I originally put in. That’s just how these housing savings policies work—if you pull out early, they practically skin you alive.
Benjamin Barnes6, I believe you when you say you've studied this and talked to a million people, but darling, I was physically there at Winston-Salem and I was at the NFL. I’ve done the math once, twice, and three times over. Numbers are in my blood! I am a pharmacist by trade, but I'm the kind of pharmacist who stays up late after the kids are asleep playing with spreadsheets and doing bookkeeping. My husband is self-employed, so I handle his books, and I deal with much more complex calculations than these. So please, don't question how informed or knowledgeable I am. I arrived at my loan calculations entirely on my own, presented them to the banker, and she confirmed they were spot on.

So, just to clarify those $7,500 in savings I was talking about earlier—it’s actually $6,000 of my own hard-earned cash plus another $1,500 from my Vanguard account that I've been steadily building up over these last three years. If I were to go ahead and withdraw it all right now, I’d be losing out on everything I've worked so hard to put away!

Look, Benjamin Barnes6... nobody’s questioning how much you know or anything else about you... I’m just trying to wrap my head around how much credit you actually pulled, that’s all.
Alright, let’s break this down...
The investor was paid $95,000. Out of that $95,000, $10,500 was actually yours—that’s your $6,000 savings plus the $1,500 from the CD and interest, plus another $3,000 in deposits... basically, the cash you put in so that when you added your savings, the CD, the interest, and that last deposit together, you'd have 10% of the loan amount ready to go. So, the way I see it—correct me if I'm tripping here—is that you actually walked away from the bank with an $84,500 loan.
And based on the monthly payment numbers you gave me, I'm calculating that you'd owe the NFL about $121,863... so how did you end up with that figure over $132,000...?

Anyway, I used to have three different savings accounts over at Winston-Salem... I was pretty much done with the whole saving thing too... but I figured it made more sense to just use the cash for a house rather than messing around with those weird middle-man financing combos involving my existing savings, CDs, and interest. It just felt cleaner.
Besides... a loan would probably be cheaper for me if I had a husband and kids to open accounts under, but I don't.😉

Donna Chase12 said:Look, Benjamin Barnes6... nobody’s questioning how much you know or anything else about you... I’m just trying to wrap my head around how much credit you actually pulled, that’s all.
Alright, let’s break this down...
The investor was paid $95,000. Out of that $95,000, $10,500 was actually yours—that’s your $6,000 savings plus the $1,500 from the CD and interest, plus another $3,000 in deposits... basically, the cash you put in so that when you added your savings, the CD, the interest, and that last deposit together, you'd have 10% of the loan amount ready to go. So, the way I see it—correct me if I'm tripping here—is that you actually walked away from the bank with an $84,500 loan.
And based on the monthly payment numbers you gave me, I'm calculating that you'd owe the NFL about $121,863... so how did you end up with that figure over $132,000...?

Anyway, I used to have three different savings accounts over at Winston-Salem... I was pretty much done with the whole saving thing too... but I figured it made more sense to just use the cash for a house rather than messing around with those weird middle-man financing combos involving my existing savings, CDs, and interest. It just felt cleaner.
Besides... a loan would probably be cheaper for me if I had a husband and kids to open accounts under, but I don't.😉

Exactly! I’m actually paying back $121,156 to the NFL (not $121,863, because my payments are slightly higher during the first 21 months of repayment, rather than the 24 months I originally thought, and then they drop for the remaining 159 months, which is 13 years and 2 months. That's what I pay from day one of the loan. But before that—starting from when I opened my savings account way back in 2004 until the loan was finalized—I poured a total of $11,989 into the credit union between various fees and deposits. When you factor everything in, it totals $133,145. So, look at it simply: YOU PAY $133,145 TO GET $95,000.

I really put in the work on this one! I spent the last few days badgering my aunt about Winston-Salem, sending her endless emails asking about different combinations so I could have everything laid out clearly in black and white.

If I had gone to Winston-Salem to take out a $92,000 loan—which would be the equivalent of my current deal, except I wouldn't have to pay that extra difference to reach the 10% mark since I'd just use my existing savings—plus that $3,000 I added later, I’d have a total of $95,000. In that scenario, the total payback is exactly $144,370.37.
Alternatively, if I had done what you suggested—taking out a loan without any prior savings using two separate identities, letting my savings sit there for five years to collect incentives, and then borrowing that money to give to the investor (meaning I’d only need a loan of about $83,500)—the total payback would be $144,330. In all three scenarios, we are looking at a 15-year term.

So, bottom line:
NFL loan: $95,000; total payback $133,145 over 15 years.
Winston-Salem loan: $92,000 + $3,000 cash to the investor; total payback $144,370 over 15 years.
Winston-Salem loan: $83,500 + $11,500 cash; total payback $144,330 over 15 years.

Oh, and I almost forgot! With the NFL, you are required to carry accident, flood, and fire insurance, which costs $50 a year. Winston-Salem doesn't require that, so that’s another $750 saved over 15 years. Therefore, the total payback at the NFL is $133,895—let's just round that to $134,000..
That puts exactly $10,000 straight into my pocket.🙂
However, a massive advantage of Winston-Salem over the NFL is the ability to make extra payments without any penalties or advance notice. For anyone expecting a windfall of cash in the near future, this loan is much more attractive because making larger payments significantly cuts down the interest.
As for me, unfortunately, I don't have any such windfalls on the horizon. My workaround is to open a new agreement on my existing savings, and once that matures (minimum 2 years), I can refinance the current loan without a fee. It is possible, but you have to wait two years. You could potentially "game" the system by opening a new agreement with a tiny deposit just to buy some time, and then if a sudden influx of cash happens, you can pay off part or all of the loan.
I honestly don't know if this information is helpful or if my little lecture just gave everyone a headache.
Goodness, I don't know how I'm going to fall asleep after all this math!😉

Is it really fair for this thread to just go dead right when I actually need some help here?! 😕

Donna Chase12 isn't getting back to my PMs, and from what I can see, pretty much everyone else has vanished from the discussion too.

I swung by Winston-Salem earlier, and the lady there was basically telling me that nothing happens unless I have my own cash ready to go. Does anyone know how Donna Chase12 ended up with those specific numbers on her K100 rate? If anyone out there could send over the kind of breakdown you get at Winston-Salem via PM, I’d really appreciate it.

Thanks.

I’ve gone ahead and grabbed this from their website for you! If you just click on the bridge financing option, you'll find a perfect little example of how they calculate those loan amounts.

All figures are listed in USD. These calculations were put together based on a few key assumptions. If a client isn't working with their own capital, things get interesting! You have to look at how they're actually funding the move. It’s all about that leverage, really. I remember back when I was helping a buddy set up his first small business in Chicago—he didn't have a dime of his own, but he had a rock-solid plan and some great connections. He ended up securing a loan through a major bank like Chase, and honestly, it worked out beautifully because he knew exactly what he was doing. So, if the funds aren't sitting in their personal account, you're essentially looking at credit, third-party backing, or some other form of external financing to bridge the gap. It changes the whole dynamic of the deal!The repayment timeline for a single loan really boils down to two things: the specific rate plan you sign up for and how much cash you’re actually putting down upfront to kick off that bridge financing. It’s all about that initial skin in the game! Interestingly, if you opt for the K60 tariff and bring some of your own capital to the table, you might even see those monthly installments drop. It's a bit like how I found when I was refinancing my truck back in Ohio—having a decent chunk of change ready to go made the monthly squeeze so much more manageable!

Unless something has shifted on their end in the meantime, I actually received my loan calculation back on February 27th, and that figure didn't include any of my own down payment funds at all. You should probably double-check those numbers. Honestly, just send them a quick email or give them a ring on the phone to clear it up!
I really should have attached my most recent calculation—the one excluding liquid assets that someone over at Winston-Salem emailed me—but I’m having a bit of a technical meltdown! I can't figure out how to upload it because the file is sitting at 58kB, which is way over that 9.8 limit they set. Technology is such a headache sometimes!

Donna Chase12, sorry—I’ve been absolutely buried at work lately so I haven't really been online... just sent you a PM

My loan-to-value ratio is at least 1:1.2, and I’ve been telling Rose Rancic that, but she keeps insisting that nothing moves forward without a 10% down payment.

I get the feeling there’s some wiggle room here—like she was probably paid based on how close she can push you to the edge—and she clearly doesn't want to stretch things to the limit, but since I already set up a third meeting for Monday, I’m planning to just shove what my colleague found on their official site right under her nose (shoutout to the e-Zara site, by the way!). I've already printed out the whole article.😉

There’s no doubt that their calculations are full of shady variables, because if they weren't, why would she have to duck into another room to run the numbers? And why wouldn't they just put a "calculator" right on their website? Then again, I actually like that the interest rate is fixed and there aren't any prepayment penalties—for those two reasons alone, I’d honestly take a slightly higher rate than what Chase would offer me!

For those of you who actually sat through one of these sessions, does the loan term seem to appear "coincidentally" on those printouts? Maybe I'm using the wrong word when I say "coincidentally," but I just don't understand what factor actually dictates the length of the loan. It really bugs me that she comes back from that other room with these specific calculations where the repayment period is already decided, and I can't even ask her to fix it at, say, 20 years just so I can see what my monthly payment would look like.

Anyway, I’ve lined up about five or six awkward questions for her, so we'll see how things play out this Monday.

If I could somehow get my hands on Zirkels' calculation, it would be absolutely devastating for this lady! Zirkels, I know you mentioned you don't have it saved on your computer, but is there any way you could snap a photo of it and email it to me before Monday? Everything is digital these days, so it should be easy, but if you really can't find the file, maybe just a quick cell phone picture would work? Sorry for being such a pest, I really just think it would be a game-changer.🙂

I went looking for my calculation sheet and I can't find it anywhere... looks like I tossed it... or maybe it's just buried somewhere since I haven't fully finished moving yet, so my stuff is scattered all over the place
and honestly, I don't get what the big deal is... if you aren't feeling her vibe, just swing by one day and ask for someone else to run the numbers... the fact that she does it in another room doesn't matter—the software handles the math automatically, it's not like she's manually tweaking the program... I actually sat right next to this guy once and watched him work... and if I remember correctly, the system wouldn't even let him run certain calculations for specific interest rates—it didn't give an exact 17% or whatever, it just gave what the computer spit out... I don't know why it works that way, but that's how I recall it

just ask the lady for the paperwork (if she hasn't handed it over already) that lists the terms for the different loan types...
as far as I know, they really do require a down payment for a 1:1.2 mortgage, whereas a 1:1.3 setup usually needs a co-signer...
but hey, I'm just saying—I don't know if they've updated their terms lately... I took out my loan about 10 months ago

So I was looking at my numbers over at Wells Fargo, and honestly, what my wife just worked out is absolutely terrifying! After checking with JPMorgan Chase, it turns out if I went with them under the exact same terms, I’d be paying off twenty grand less in the long run.

I tried showing her the article right from their own website, but she just kept making excuses, insisting that management had rolled out these new terms, BUT (get this) she claims she can't even show them to me or print a copy because she isn't sure if she's actually allowed to!

She got me so worked up with all that nonsense that I almost lost it and...

Anyway, I’m going to call Wells Fargo back and try to deal with a different agent to see if I can strike a better deal, just to see how a different person handles the conversation.

honestly, she seems totally clueless and out of the loop—but if you've already got a better deal for 20k sitting there at JPMorgan Chase, why on earth would you even bother heading back to Washington, D.C.?

graniteharbor7 said:So I was looking at my numbers over at Wells Fargo, and honestly, what my wife just worked out is absolutely terrifying! After checking with JPMorgan Chase, it turns out if I went with them under the exact same terms, I’d be paying off twenty grand less in the long run.

I tried showing her the article right from their own website, but she just kept making excuses, insisting that management had rolled out these new terms, BUT (get this) she claims she can't even show them to me or print a copy because she isn't sure if she's actually allowed to!

She got me so worked up with all that nonsense that I almost lost it and...

Anyway, I’m going to call Wells Fargo back and try to deal with a different agent to see if I can strike a better deal, just to see how a different person handles the conversation.

I actually touched on this exact point earlier in this thread. While a standard bank loan might look cheaper on paper initially, you're dealing with a variable interest rate. There is always that nagging little possibility that rates climb and you end up paying significantly more in the long run.

That said, banks have their own ways of getting their cut from clients—I didn't need a co-signer for mine, but I found myself stuck in a tedious negotiation just to sort out the required accident insurance policy...

When I first started looking for a mortgage:

A lady over at Wust mentioned an option for $60,000 over 24 years (that K60 bridge financing type)
monthly payments would be about $415 (including processing fees, fixed interest rates, and no prepayment penalties; it uses a level principal and interest split, so after 12 years, you'd still owe roughly $30,000, plus there's no requirement for fire or life insurance).

Then I went to JPMorgan Chase and the representative offered me a "standard mortgage"
$60,000 for 24 years with payments around $967, but she noted a 1% ($600) processing fee, a variable interest rate, and because you pay interest before principal, you'd still owe 65-70% of the balance after 12 years. On top of that, you have to pay for fire and life insurance, which is about $200 annually, and if you want to pay it off early, they charge a 1% fee on the remaining balance.

In both cases, I'm paying for the notary and the home appraisal.

I guess, which one makes more sense to you guys?