Schizophrenia - General Discussion

Thanks for this. The last time I saw a therapist, I only went for about two or three sessions.
Basically, he had me take this massive assessment—something like 250 questions—and the diagnosis wasn't schizophrenia F20, but something else I can't quite name. He just left it at that, telling me I needed to stay straight for six months before starting actual therapy. He seemed to think it would take around 20 sessions to get things back on track. I've been straight for four months now. So, I might go back, or maybe I won't. Videc.

Sometimes I wonder if it was all just the weed, thinking I became gay because of it, and that I can probably just power through this on my own.

Noah Sanchez7 said:Thanks for this. The last time I saw a therapist, I only went for about two or three sessions.
Basically, he had me take this massive assessment—something like 250 questions—and the diagnosis wasn't schizophrenia F20, but something else I can't quite name. He just left it at that, telling me I needed to stay straight for six months before starting actual therapy. He seemed to think it would take around 20 sessions to get things back on track. I've been straight for four months now. So, I might go back, or maybe I won't. Videc.

Sometimes I wonder if it was all just the weed, thinking I became gay because of it, and that I can probably just power through this on my own.

Honestly, what you described sounds a bit too mild for schizophrenia. It doesn't even sound like full-blown psychosis, but hey, you never know. Drugs can be a major "trigger" for schizophrenia. If there's a genetic predisposition, schizophrenia can kick in, but it isn't a guarantee—using drugs just makes it easier for it to start. Check out that link Douglas Long2 gave you above. Anyway, psychoses generally fall anywhere from F20 to F30. For instance, they've been treating me as F20 for four years, but then my psychiatrist tells me this week that he thinks I'm leaning more toward bipolar disorder now. It's not exactly a 100% certain thing.

PS: Everything regarding schizophrenia is explained simply and clearly over at http://mentalhealthamerica.org/schizophrenia

If there’s a genetic predisposition, schizophrenia F20 might surface—but it doesn't have to—though drug use can certainly trigger it.

Having kept up with more recent scientific research and theories, I’m inclined to suggest that external influences play a much larger role than genetic predispositions. There seems to be a massive amount of misunderstanding regarding genetic causality. This can actually be quite damaging—it's vital for a person to realize they aren't merely a puppet of their DNA, nor is their fate sealed by their genes; rather, they maintain agency over their own lives. Too often, people try to shift the responsibility for everything onto their genetics.

Taylor Campbell4 said:

If there’s a genetic predisposition, schizophrenia F20 might surface—but it doesn't have to—though drug use can certainly trigger it.

Having kept up with more recent scientific research and theories, I’m inclined to suggest that external influences play a much larger role than genetic predispositions. There seems to be a massive amount of misunderstanding regarding genetic causality. This can actually be quite damaging—it's vital for a person to realize they aren't merely a puppet of their DNA, nor is their fate sealed by their genes; rather, they maintain agency over their own lives. Too often, people try to shift the responsibility for everything onto their genetics.

I get what you mean, I really do. I was just trying to point out that drug addiction can act as a catalyst that helps trigger schizophrenia F20.

Absolutely. I’d also like to take a moment to warn any readers who might be tempted by drug experimentation: please, don't go down that road. And don't fall for what I consider foolish tales about "spiritual awakenings" triggered by marijuana or LSD. Those experiences are fake—nothing more than heightened illusions. Anything truly worthwhile is achieved through one's own hard work and a genuine investment of energy, rather than by introducing chemical compounds into your system. It's all incredibly damaging—and while marijuana is arguably the least harmful of the bunch since it's "natural," it still carries risks—but ultimately, these substances can cause permanent brain damage.

Taylor Campbell4 said:Absolutely. I’d also like to take a moment to warn any readers who might be tempted by drug experimentation: please, don't go down that road. And don't fall for what I consider foolish tales about "spiritual awakenings" triggered by marijuana or LSD. Those experiences are fake—nothing more than heightened illusions. Anything truly worthwhile is achieved through one's own hard work and a genuine investment of energy, rather than by introducing chemical compounds into your system. It's all incredibly damaging—and while marijuana is arguably the least harmful of the bunch since it's "natural," it still carries risks—but ultimately, these substances can cause permanent brain damage.

You might have a point, but I don't entirely agree with you. I do agree, though, that ecstasy at most absolutely wrecked my brain receptors or whatever they are.
I don't know who else here has tried MDMA, but when I took it for the first time, I was just overwhelmed by these incredible emotions. It was this total mental clarity and peace where everything felt perfect and made sense.
Unfortunately, blue is banned, so I'm curious about her experience.
I am certain I experienced schizophrenia F20 episodes back then.
Once, on a heavy dose of speed, I had hallucinations that a sane person couldn't even fathom. It was an overwhelming sense of terror; I literally felt the darkness closing in, the ground giving way, and like I was suffocating... it was horrific.

I would really just like some professional to confirm if long periods of intense paranoia, depression, constant fear, and phobias are likely to occur after a history of heavy drug use.
I should mention I wasn't moderate; I was using various substances every single day.
For instance, on a Friday, we’d take ecstasy before class, smoke weed during the lunch break, and then head straight to someone's house after school for alcohol, speed, more ecstasy, and then something else just to come down in the morning.
This might sound excessive to some, but believe me, in my circle, it was completely normal.
Just a note: in the beginning, the focus is on the "high," but later on, the emphasis shifts to the "comedown" (heroin, meth, various prescription pills, etc.). Eventually, you need a certain amount of meds just to "prep the field" for the ecstasy, otherwise, you feel terrible.

Best,

Noah Sanchez7 said:You might have a point, but I don't entirely agree with you. I do agree, though, that ecstasy at most absolutely wrecked my brain receptors or whatever they are.
I don't know who else here has tried MDMA, but when I took it for the first time, I was just overwhelmed by these incredible emotions. It was this total mental clarity and peace where everything felt perfect and made sense.
Unfortunately, blue is banned, so I'm curious about her experience.
I am certain I experienced schizophrenia F20 episodes back then.
Once, on a heavy dose of speed, I had hallucinations that a sane person couldn't even fathom. It was an overwhelming sense of terror; I literally felt the darkness closing in, the ground giving way, and like I was suffocating... it was horrific.

I would really just like some professional to confirm if long periods of intense paranoia, depression, constant fear, and phobias are likely to occur after a history of heavy drug use.
I should mention I wasn't moderate; I was using various substances every single day.
For instance, on a Friday, we’d take ecstasy before class, smoke weed during the lunch break, and then head straight to someone's house after school for alcohol, speed, more ecstasy, and then something else just to come down in the morning.
This might sound excessive to some, but believe me, in my circle, it was completely normal.
Just a note: in the beginning, the focus is on the "high," but later on, the emphasis shifts to the "comedown" (heroin, meth, various prescription pills, etc.). Eventually, you need a certain amount of meds just to "prep the field" for the ecstasy, otherwise, you feel terrible.

Best,

Well, 🙂 of course there is a possibility of experiencing a wide spectrum of psychopathological symptoms after (especially prolonged) substance abuse. That part is beyond question—it's a clinical reality. There is, however, a much lower probability that you can simply attribute everything to schizophrenia F20 in its purest form. If you look at the DSM-5, for instance, you will find specific diagnostic categories for conditions resulting from psychoactive substance use. There are several different states that exhibit psychotic features, but if every single one were classified as F20, those other diagnostic codes wouldn't exist.
Furthermore, why don't you try describing a single hallucination of yours in detail? Perhaps then we can actually determine whether it is TRULY a hallucination—or something else entirely.😉

No123 said:So, how many times have you actually been hospitalized? If you even have, that is.

Twice. I was stuck in the hospital for three weeks both this time of year last year and again this year.

Douglas Long2 said:Well, 🙂 of course there is a possibility of experiencing a wide spectrum of psychopathological symptoms after (especially prolonged) substance abuse. That part is beyond question—it's a clinical reality. There is, however, a much lower probability that you can simply attribute everything to schizophrenia F20 in its purest form. If you look at the DSM-5, for instance, you will find specific diagnostic categories for conditions resulting from psychoactive substance use. There are several different states that exhibit psychotic features, but if every single one were classified as F20, those other diagnostic codes wouldn't exist.
Furthermore, why don't you try describing a single hallucination of yours in detail? Perhaps then we can actually determine whether it is TRULY a hallucination—or something else entirely.😉

Here is a perfect example of a hallucination that really captures my experience with schizophrenia F20.
When I'm walking down the street or just moving around, I lose touch with my physical presence. It’s like I have a body, but for about 10 seconds at a time, I walk one way, then suddenly switch to another style, then another, indefinitely. I don't feel like I have a CONSTANT body; instead, one moment I’m strutting like I own the place, the next I’m slouching like a bum, then I'm walking like a woman, or even like a small child... On top of all that, it makes me incredibly frustrated, which sends my tension through the roof.
That’s just one symptom in a long list, and it's one of the most aggravating ones—not to mention the social anxiety, the voice sounding like a centenarian, and so on.
Also, another interesting thing is that my hearing feels extremely heightened; I'm basically hypersensitive (I'm not sure if that's the right term, but everything just feels amplified).
Because of that, during any real interaction, I feel like I've become a completely different being. Totally. It's like I stop being ME, I just vanish and become the other person—my conversationalist—and I forget myself. I am fully aware of everything happening, but it feels as though something inside me has frozen up or is actively resisting.

Depersonalization

It’s this weird disorder where your whole sense of self just... shifts. It gets disturbing and honestly pretty overwhelming. During a depersonalization episode, you can suddenly lose any grip on who you actually are. You might feel like your limbs are totally different sizes, or like you’ve somehow exited your own body and are watching yourself from a distance. Sometimes it feels like being a machine—like you and everyone else are just robots going through the motions. Or you're moving through life like you're stuck in a dream, in a world that doesn't feel real anymore. You see similar, though much more intense, episodes popping up in schizophrenia F20. But there's a catch: the experience for someone with schizophrenia doesn't have that "it feels like" quality that people with depersonalization describe. For them, that detachment from the self isn't a feeling—it's just absolute reality.

Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_disorders

Noah Sanchez7 said:I just wish a professional could confirm for me if long stretches of unseen paranoia, depression, constant fear, phobias... if those things tend to happen after someone goes through a period of drug use.

Look, I’m definitely no expert here, but I’m pretty sure addiction is just a much faster lane to... well, hm... schizophrenia F20... though it doesn't always have to be as bad as people make it out to be :P

stormylynx23 said:Depersonalization

It’s this weird disorder where your whole sense of self just... shifts. It gets disturbing and honestly pretty overwhelming. During a depersonalization episode, you can suddenly lose any grip on who you actually are. You might feel like your limbs are totally different sizes, or like you’ve somehow exited your own body and are watching yourself from a distance. Sometimes it feels like being a machine—like you and everyone else are just robots going through the motions. Or you're moving through life like you're stuck in a dream, in a world that doesn't feel real anymore. You see similar, though much more intense, episodes popping up in schizophrenia F20. But there's a catch: the experience for someone with schizophrenia doesn't have that "it feels like" quality that people with depersonalization describe. For them, that detachment from the self isn't a feeling—it's just absolute reality.

Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_disorders

I’ve come to realize that people losing their grip don't really have an ego—or rather, it's so incredibly small that once the pressure hits, it just snaps. Honestly, having a robust, well-preserved ego is pretty much what keeps you sane.

Gerald Parker3 said:I’ve come to realize that people losing their grip don't really have an ego—or rather, it's so incredibly small that once the pressure hits, it just snaps. Honestly, having a robust, well-preserved ego is pretty much what keeps you sane.

Wait a second—does that mean Buddhists are all crazy then? Their whole philosophy is centered around eliminating the ego entirely! If we follow that logic, the ego is actually the root cause of every single problem we face.

silverfox6 said:Wait a second—does that mean Buddhists are all crazy then? Their whole philosophy is centered around eliminating the ego entirely! If we follow that logic, the ego is actually the root cause of every single problem we face.

True, but let's be real—the truly crazy ones are the people who have been living without an ego all along.

For Noah Sanchez7:

stormylynx23 said:Depersonalization

It’s this weird disorder where your whole sense of self just... shifts. It gets disturbing and honestly pretty overwhelming. During a depersonalization episode, you can suddenly lose any grip on who you actually are. You might feel like your limbs are totally different sizes, or like you’ve somehow exited your own body and are watching yourself from a distance. Sometimes it feels like being a machine—like you and everyone else are just robots going through the motions. Or you're moving through life like you're stuck in a dream, in a world that doesn't feel real anymore. You see similar, though much more intense, episodes popping up in schizophrenia F20. But there's a catch: the experience for someone with schizophrenia doesn't have that "it feels like" quality that people with depersonalization describe. For them, that detachment from the self isn't a feeling—it's just absolute reality.

Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_disorders

It seems this is exactly what you are describing. In and of itself, this isn't a hallucination, which is why I asked you to provide a detailed description earlier.
Depersonalization can certainly be a component of schizophrenia F20, but it isn't limited to that—it can accompany other psychoses, such as psychotic depression, or certain neuroses. From what I understand, it can even follow epilepsy, or it can manifest as a standalone disorder. Of course, we cannot rule out the possibility of it appearing as a consequence of drug use. It can also occur in individuals without any of these underlying issues during states of extreme exhaustion, right before falling asleep, and so on.

To silverfox6:
Buddhism is an entirely different matter altogether; functioning according to those specific frameworks necessarily excludes cultural diversity and the values adopted as a way of life during childhood—which differs significantly from ours, given that we all belong to Western civilization here in the States.

To Noah Sanchez7 and silverfox6:
The states of depersonalization mentioned (not all, but specifically certain types within this spectrum) are not viewed as disorders in Buddhism. Instead, by applying Buddhist theology and philosophy, such states are utilized as tools on the path toward "realizing the true essence of being."

Well, since we aren't in Japan or somewhere similar, the only sensible advice is this: to function within the society you live in, you need a relatively stable identity. Please, (Noah Sanchez7), try to focus first on overcoming any dependencies and engaging in accompanying psychotherapy. If you adhere to your treatment, there is a possibility that this sensation could at least be reduced, if not eliminated entirely—though that naturally requires a series of other processes through which you must strengthen your sense of self.

Gerald Parker3 said:I’ve come to realize that people losing their grip don't really have an ego—or rather, it's so incredibly small that once the pressure hits, it just snaps. Honestly, having a robust, well-preserved ego is pretty much what keeps you sane.

Right, sure, and I'm just a saint myself—let's just say Douglas Long2 has one of the smallest egos in the room. 😬

But seriously—if I actually sat down and tried to find 😬 , the core truth in what you're saying, I think you're hitting on something real regarding people facing chronic struggles or debilitating illnesses.

Taylor Campbell4 said:Right, sure, and I'm just a saint myself—let's just say Douglas Long2 has one of the smallest egos in the room. 😬

But seriously—if I actually sat down and tried to find 😬 , the core truth in what you're saying, I think you're hitting on something real regarding people facing chronic struggles or debilitating illnesses.

No; I’m talking about the actual clinical definitions of psychosis.

My ego is basically at "just won a Nobel Prize" levels—it's what they call grandiosity.

Here’s a little story for you to chew on. Honestly, it’s just between me and you, nothing else matters here.

There was this guy once—let's call him stormylynx23. He got his discharge papers and they slapped a label on him, saying he was F20 or schizophrenic. That hit him hard. Like, really hard. Suddenly, that was all he could talk about. All he could think about. "Schizophrenia, you know?" "Schizophrenia, did you hear?" That kind of thing. He basically fell in love with his own diagnosis. He started "living" it, diving into every textbook he could find, just constantly whining about his condition. Eventually, he ended up seeing a new psychiatrist in Washington, D.C. This doctor let him vent and lecture for a couple of sessions, just letting him run his mouth.
Then, during the third appointment, right when the guy starts his usual routine, the doctor grabs the first book within reach and starts flipping through it while the guy is talking. Of course, the patient gets confused. He's thinking, "Wait, is this guy even listening to me?" But he keeps going. As he rambles on and on, the doctor gets more and more absorbed in the book, eventually turning his chair almost ninety degrees away from the patient. He was just reading. Didn't look at the guy once. When the patient finally finished his rant, the doctor scribbled down a quick note, shoved it toward him with one hand without looking up, and didn't even bother saying goodbye.
After sitting with it for a while, the guy realized that might have been the smartest move his psychiatrist ever made.

Question for the class:
Why did the guy realize that was actually one of the doctor's best moves?

While everyone else was out living their lives, stormylynx23 was busy reading everything there was to read about schizophrenia.

Gerald Parker3 said:While everyone else was out living their lives, stormylynx23 was busy reading everything there was to read about schizophrenia.

Not bad. And one more thing...