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When does life actually begin?
When does life actually begin?
Started by Maria Nguyen4 · · 👁 4 views · 41 replies
#3 ·
Greta? Please. Give me a break. Is anyone actually still buying into that performance? It’s all just theater at this point—the rehearsed outrage, the dramatic stares, the whole "I'm just a kid" routine used to lecture grown adults who actually have to manage global infrastructures. Does she honestly think pointing fingers from a stage makes her an expert on complex economic systems? Not likely. It’s easy to demand radical shifts when you aren't the one balancing the budget or keeping the lights on in a city like Chicago or Houston. It’s pure, unadulterated populism wrapped in a green bow. Honestly, how much longer are we going to pretend this isn't just a calculated branding exercise? kaže:
Life doesn't just start whenever you feel like it—it starts at conception. Period.🙄
The medical community doesn't see eye to eye on this—which is exactly why that ten-week limit exists for when an abortion can be performed.
From a religious standpoint, every single executioner is nothing more than a serial killer—and let’s be honest, the mothers are just as complicit. Why? Because life begins at that very first station.
#4 ·
Chris Peterson53 said:Medicine doesn't agree with that, which is why there's a ten-week limit on when an abortion can occur.
From a religious standpoint, every practitioner is a serial killer and the mothers are accomplices, because life begins at the very first stage.
Don't hide behind "medicine." You either agree with something or you don't. "Medicine" isn't some monolithic entity with a single, unified opinion. There are plenty of people within what you call "medicine" who believe life starts at conception, while others couldn't disagree more.
Personally, I think life actually began about three billion years ago with the emergence of the first protein. 😁
#5 ·
Chris Peterson53 said:The medical community doesn't see it that way—which is why there’s that ten-week cutoff for when an abortion can be performed.
From a religious perspective, though, anyone performing the procedure is essentially a serial killer, and the mothers are accomplices, because life begins at the very first moment of conception.
I just can't wrap my head around the idea that dead cells are dividing and multiplying, only to suddenly... come back to life after ten weeks of "dead" multiplication.😲
#6 ·
God, Larry Cruz59, I didn't even recognize you! 😲
The way I see it, this whole question only really makes sense if you're looking at life through a purely material lens... but there's this primordial existence—something most people haven't even begun to wrap their heads around—that doesn't actually have a beginning or an end. It's just one continuous flow, constantly shifting its shape as it goes...
The way I see it, this whole question only really makes sense if you're looking at life through a purely material lens... but there's this primordial existence—something most people haven't even begun to wrap their heads around—that doesn't actually have a beginning or an end. It's just one continuous flow, constantly shifting its shape as it goes...
#7 ·
rustymaker5 said:Oh my God, Larry Cruz59, I didn't even recognize you! 😲
I think this question only really makes sense if we're looking at it through the lens of our material lives. True, primordial existence—which most people aren't even aware of yet—doesn't actually have a beginning or an end. It's just one continuous flow; it simply shifts from one form to another.
What was it that gave me away? Was it my writing style, or am I just moving through a new incarnation? 🤣
Though, honestly, I’d probably lean toward agreeing with that second option...
#8 ·
Who actually cares about when life begins? Life is just everywhere, constantly present. A fertilized egg is alive, sperm is alive, the womb is alive, and there are living bacteria attacking them all...
The question we really ought to be asking is when consciousness kicks in.
.
The question we really ought to be asking is when consciousness kicks in.
.
#9 ·
justapixel said:Who actually cares about when life begins? Life is everywhere. It doesn't just "start." An egg cell is alive, sperm is alive, the womb is alive, even the bacteria attacking them are alive...
The question we should really be asking is when consciousness kicks in.
.
That’s basically where I was heading with this thread.
If that's the case—and I'm pretty sure it is—then why isn't abortion prosecuted the same way as murder? Because it totally IS!
Maybe our laws are all just pure hypocrisy?
#10 ·
I have a decent little joke for this thread:
An atheist, a Christian, and a Jew were asked what they believe marks the true beginning of life.
First, the atheist said life starts at birth.
The Christian argued that life begins at conception.
The Jew replied that life really starts when your dog passes away and the kids finally move out. 🙂
I’m even worse at writing jokes than I am at retellng them.😁
An atheist, a Christian, and a Jew were asked what they believe marks the true beginning of life.
First, the atheist said life starts at birth.
The Christian argued that life begins at conception.
The Jew replied that life really starts when your dog passes away and the kids finally move out. 🙂
I’m even worse at writing jokes than I am at retellng them.😁
#11 ·
Butterfly Night said:That’s exactly where my head was at when I started this thread.
If that's the case—and it really is—then why isn't abortion prosecuted the same way as infanticide? Because it effectively IS!
Are our laws just pure hypocrisy?
It’s because there’s no consensus on when consciousness actually begins. The standard assumption is that it happens sometime right before birth.
Laws are bound to be a little hypocritical; it’s unavoidable. There are always two sides to every issue, and one side is always going to be unhappy with the outcome.
.
#12 ·
So, I played around with some old-school philosophy on this topic once, and here’s how it went down...
What even is a human? Just a living thing, right? But what makes a "human" different from a pig? Is it the physical stuff we're made of? Nah, the molecules in a person's body are pretty much the same as the ones in a pig's. If it's not the matter, then it's gotta be the form.
Old definition: A human is a living being that possesses the human form.
That sounds like a total tautology—just saying the same thing twice. But maybe it isn't. What actually *is* that form? The thing that makes a person a person and a pig a pig. Is it some Platonic deal where there's a "form" floating around in some separate "world of ideas"? Not really. Aristotle clearly says a human gets their form from their father (and let's be real, from their mother too). Form should be the thing that stays the same even when everything else about a being changes. So, where is it? We can actually give a better answer today than Aristotle did: that form is in our genes. People say genes contain "in-form-ation." That info stays constant throughout a whole life—even though most of the molecules (the actual matter) in us get swapped out constantly. That genetic info dictates the human shape (height, color, etc.). In Aristotelian terms, genetic information is the human form. And that info is tucked inside our DNA.
Improved definition: A human is a living being that possesses human DNA.
If we want to use this definition to figure out when human life actually starts, we have to pinpoint when that DNA is created and when the cells holding that DNA become alive. When does an individual's DNA show up? It happens when the male and female reproductive cells join together. But what makes that combined DNA the DNA of a living being (instead of just dead DNA)? Well, that zygote has to be in the uterus.
What do we call that specific moment when those two cells meet in the uterus? Conception.
So, human life begins at conception.
Q.E.D. 😉
#13 ·
mistyfox812 said:
"I once played around with scholasticism..."
"a human being is a living creature possessing human DNA" ...
"Therefore, human life begins at conception."
Your take on Scholasticism is solid, but I want to pose a challenge:
At what exact moment does a living organism with human DNA actually become a person?
The question "When does life begin?" is, frankly, a bit nonsensical.
#14 ·
slyorca11 said:The real question we should be chewing on is when exactly consciousness kicks in.
So, does that mean there’s no life without consciousness? Like, could I just go ahead and murder my mom while she's sleeping since she isn't conscious at the moment?
#15 ·
feralranger81 said:Does that mean there's no life without consciousness? For example, could I just slaughter my mother while she sleeps since she isn't conscious at the moment?
Sure you can 😬 , but it’s generally frowned upon.
#16 ·
Jack Wood43 said:you certainly can 😬 , but it’s just not right.
God, give me a break... I haven't had a laugh this hard in ages...
There’s been this persistent notion floating around that human existence kicks off the moment we draw our first breath. But what actually constitutes consciousness?
When do we truly begin to perceive the world around us? And more importantly, how do we process that perception?
If consciousness is tied to birth, then why on earth don't we possess any memory of being born? Or even clear recollections of our early childhood, which seems to vanish into thin air for most people by the age of four or five? I'm sure there's some clinical medical explanation tucked away in a textbook somewhere, but I'm not looking for a lecture on neurology here... unless, of course, that's what you're after?
At the end of the day, my stance remains firm: abortion is the taking of a human life; it is the theft of an existence that was granted at the moment of conception.
@mistyfox812
Just a little Friday thought from my side... go ahead and give it another read if you must...😉
#17 ·
If anyone claims medicine says life DOESN'T start at conception, they’re talking absolute nonsense. Medicine says it starts at fertilization—I know, I actually studied medicine—but then you have the law stepping in and saying life begins at ten or twelve weeks, depending on which state you're in, once the embryo becomes a fetus. Look, when life begins isn't some deep philosophical debate, just like how breathing your first breath isn't a philosophical debate. Strictly speaking, performing an abortion at any stage is murder—plain and simple. But legally? Not always. This whole "consciousness" argument is just as ridiculous. A bacterium doesn't have consciousness (at least not the kind we recognize), yet it can still absolutely wreck you when it gets inside. We're obviously talking about the toxic, parasitic kind of bacteria here.
#18 ·
Butterfly Night said:That’s exactly where I was heading when I started this thread.
If that's the case—and it absolutely is—then why isn't abortion prosecuted with the same weight as murder? Because it effectively IS!
Are our laws ultimately just a massive exercise in hypocrisy?
Think about it: why isn't male masturbation treated as a homicide? Or why isn't killing another mammal judged as murder (if we want to take this even further)? Isn't this just a form of speciesism that we might soon rightfully condemn, much like racism, sexism, or nationalism?
As Adobe pointed out, legal hypocrisy is inevitable, and as the Atlantic noted, debating "when life begins" is a fundamentally pointless endeavor...😉
#19 ·
Dr. Miller said:It is absolute nonsense for medicine to claim that life DOES NOT begin at conception. From a medical standpoint—and I studied medicine, after all—life starts at fertilization. Meanwhile, the law steps in later, usually around the tenth or twelfth week depending on which state you're in, once the embryo becomes a fetus. When does life begin? It isn't some endless philosophical debate, any more than we debate when someone takes their first breath. If we look at it morally, an abortion at any stage is murder; plain and simple. But legally, it isn't always. And this whole argument about consciousness is just silly. Bacteria don't have consciousness (at least not in the way we understand it), yet they can still absolutely wreck your system if you aren't careful. We are obviously talking about toxic or parasitic bacteria here.
legitimate = legal, lawful, or valid 😕
Did you perhaps mean "morally speaking" or "biologically speaking"?
#20 ·
Superskeptik said:legitimate = legal, lawful, valid 😕
Maybe you meant "morally speaking" or "biologically speaking"?
Nah, what you're describing is just being legal—legitimacy is a whole different ballgame.
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