Mandatory pension funds: What are your thoughts?

loneranger88 said:I am curious: will they actually hold that banquet this year where they announce the fund and manager of the year? And more importantly, how exactly do they plan to present them? 🙂

roughly like this:

"Dear valued customers, it is my absolute honor to introduce our Fund Manager of the Year: this time, we have Hrvojko Sposobnić—the man who actually managed to blow through your ENTIRE last year's contribution! Yes, you heard that right—the WHOLE thing!"

dustymarlin10 said:roughly like this:

"Dear valued customers, it is my absolute honor to introduce our Fund Manager of the Year: this time, we have Hrvojko Sposobnić—the man who actually managed to blow through your ENTIRE last year's contribution! Yes, you heard that right—the WHOLE thing!"

Hey, take a breath and chill out.
You haven't lost a dime.
I could go back and forth with you on investment theory all day, but it's clear you aren't even trying to make a real point—if you were, you'd actually be talking about the economy. Instead, you're just leaning on politics so you can spout nonsense without any real consequences.

Just look at how much the Nasdaq has tanked lately—not to mention the surrounding markets, or the global situation for that matter.
Even OMF managed to scrape by. Though, honestly, they share the blame for this Nasdaq slump since the government incentivized investing in those funds, which eventually triggered those massive sell-offs.

Your money isn't gone unless you actually sell—or in this case, until you start drawing from your retirement—and before that happens, this market will likely swing wildly "100" more times between hitting the moon and crashing into the abyss.

William Mitchell2 said:Hey, take a breath and chill out.
You haven't lost a dime.
I could go back and forth with you on investment theory all day, but it's clear you aren't even trying to make a real point—if you were, you'd actually be talking about the economy. Instead, you're just leaning on politics so you can spout nonsense without any real consequences.

Just look at how much the Nasdaq has tanked lately—not to mention the surrounding markets, or the global situation for that matter.
Even OMF managed to scrape by. Though, honestly, they share the blame for this Nasdaq slump since the government incentivized investing in those funds, which eventually triggered those massive sell-offs.

Your money isn't gone unless you actually sell—or in this case, until you start drawing from your retirement—and before that happens, this market will likely swing wildly "100" more times between hitting the moon and crashing into the abyss.

At the very least, you have to wonder about pension funds buying into overpriced stocks (Ingra at 60,000, IGH at 15,000, JPMorgan at 12,000...) while certain managers are walking out the door at the same time! Was it just poor investment forecasting? Or is there something else going on?

The whole idea that pension savings will just grow on autopilot belongs in a history book.
In an era of total demographic collapse, these retirement funds won't even have anyone left to sell their assets to in order to pay out a single cent in benefits.

William Mitchell2 said:Hey, take a breath and chill out.
You haven't lost a dime.
I could go back and forth with you on investment theory all day, but it's clear you aren't even trying to make a real point—if you were, you'd actually be talking about the economy. Instead, you're just leaning on politics so you can spout nonsense without any real consequences.

Just look at how much the Nasdaq has tanked lately—not to mention the surrounding markets, or the global situation for that matter.
Even OMF managed to scrape by. Though, honestly, they share the blame for this Nasdaq slump since the government incentivized investing in those funds, which eventually triggered those massive sell-offs.

Your money isn't gone unless you actually sell—or in this case, until you start drawing from your retirement—and before that happens, this market will likely swing wildly "100" more times between hitting the moon and crashing into the abyss.

There's some truth to that, I guess. But we're talking about a MANDATORY pension fund here. Mandatory. Nobody really gives you a choice. Whether you want to take that kind of risk or sit through twenty more recession cycles, it's happening. Maybe the fund managers should be a bit more cautious with those investments, considering it's a mandatory fund?
I'm no expert, but I feel like they should probably be more careful.

William Mitchell2 said:Hey, take a breath and chill out.
You haven't lost a dime.
I could go back and forth with you on investment theory all day, but it's clear you aren't even trying to make a real point—if you were, you'd actually be talking about the economy. Instead, you're just leaning on politics so you can spout nonsense without any real consequences.

Just look at how much the Nasdaq has tanked lately—not to mention the surrounding markets, or the global situation for that matter.
Even OMF managed to scrape by. Though, honestly, they share the blame for this Nasdaq slump since the government incentivized investing in those funds, which eventually triggered those massive sell-offs.

Your money isn't gone unless you actually sell—or in this case, until you start drawing from your retirement—and before that happens, this market will likely swing wildly "100" more times between hitting the moon and crashing into the abyss.

Try telling me nothing was lost—or stolen—when I actually hit retirement age. Then we'll see how much I really lost. Besides, I can't exactly "sell" anything like you're claiming, because this is a mandatory fund that nobody ever bothered to ask if I actually wanted to participate in. And let me repeat: it would have been better if the money just sat in my bank account, but then all these so-called managers wouldn't have a reason to exist, would they?
And yeah, I still think politics belongs in this discussion, just like the stock market belongs in politics, considering policy is what drives everything anyway.

And one last thing, do you even know what investing means to me?
I'm sure it isn't this endless cycle of moving money from one empty pocket to another based on market whims...

shadowscout20 said:At the very least, you have to wonder about pension funds buying into overpriced stocks (Ingra at 60,000, IGH at 15,000, JPMorgan at 12,000...) while certain managers are walking out the door at the same time! Was it just poor investment forecasting? Or is there something else going on?

Or maybe it's just an outright heist...

How else would you label buying into massively overvalued stocks, unless it's a glaring sign of the deep crisis everyone was warning us about months ago?

And oh yeah, they’re even coming up with "solutions" for the losses at OMF—like suggesting we increase the allocation for the second pillar from 5% to 9% of our paychecks!!!

I mean, who actually thinks that's a good idea?

Should we just throw more money into the furnace so they can squander (and lose) even more of it?

dustymarlin10 said:Or maybe it's just an outright heist...

How else would you label buying into massively overvalued stocks, unless it's a glaring sign of the deep crisis everyone was warning us about months ago?

And oh yeah, they’re even coming up with "solutions" for the losses at OMF—like suggesting we increase the allocation for the second pillar from 5% to 9% of our paychecks!!!

I mean, who actually thinks that's a good idea?

Should we just throw more money into the furnace so they can squander (and lose) even more of it?

Which basically means OMF can lend even more cash to the government (by buying up bonds).

A drop in unit value isn't bad news; it’s actually good—you get more units for the same price. It's the exact same logic as a stock market dip; American pension funds are just accumulating assets right now, so it's actually beneficial for them to buy in at lower prices.

Larry Williams5 said:Which basically means OMF can lend even more cash to the government (by buying up bonds).

A drop in unit value isn't bad news; it’s actually good—you get more units for the same price. It's the exact same logic as a stock market dip; American pension funds are just accumulating assets right now, so it's actually beneficial for them to buy in at lower prices.

Sure, but that doesn't really help me out since I already bought in at the higher price.

slypilot13 said:There's some truth to that, I guess. But we're talking about a MANDATORY pension fund here. Mandatory. Nobody really gives you a choice. Whether you want to take that kind of risk or sit through twenty more recession cycles, it's happening. Maybe the fund managers should be a bit more cautious with those investments, considering it's a mandatory fund?
I'm no expert, but I feel like they should probably be more careful.

But they didn't add that extra 5% specifically for the pension fund...
Instead, they carved out 5% of the total retirement allocation for OMF.

Basically, if that 5% hadn't been set aside, everything would still be running on the old model—and then a total collapse would have been a 100% certainty.

dustymarlin10 said:Try telling me nothing was lost—or stolen—when I actually hit retirement age. Then we'll see how much I really lost. Besides, I can't exactly "sell" anything like you're claiming, because this is a mandatory fund that nobody ever bothered to ask if I actually wanted to participate in. And let me repeat: it would have been better if the money just sat in my bank account, but then all these so-called managers wouldn't have a reason to exist, would they?
And yeah, I still think politics belongs in this discussion, just like the stock market belongs in politics, considering policy is what drives everything anyway.

And one last thing, do you even know what investing means to me?
I'm sure it isn't this endless cycle of moving money from one empty pocket to another based on market whims...

Man, you’re lecturing people on things you clearly don't understand.
You want to stash it under a mattress? Or just let it rot in a savings account? ...
With inflation sitting at 3-5%, if it climbs any higher, they'll bleed your account dry long before you ever reach whatever "dream amount" you're aiming for in 20, 30, or 40 years.

You'll have plenty in the bank $100 but you'll only be able to afford a single bag of pepper with it.

Mandatory retirement funds? Honestly, they’re just one more way the elites have figured out how to fleece us regular folks. The whole system is rigged from the ground up—nobody is actually guaranteeing a damn thing. If you ask me, this whole setup was cooked up by some corporate mafia just so a handful of high-level managers can play games with our hard-earned capital, doing whatever they feel like with money that isn't even theirs. It's basically the government washing its hands of us—they just don't want to carry our weight anymore.

But here's the kicker: the government has been meddling since day one. The entire structure is built so brokenly that it can't even function properly, which makes these fund schemes nothing more than a desperate move by people who have already lost. As for what this will actually achieve? We'll see, but I don't see anything good coming out of it. God help us when we finally reach old age—if we even make it that far.

William Mitchell2 said:But they didn't add that extra 5% specifically for the pension fund...
Instead, they carved out 5% of the total retirement allocation for OMF.

Basically, if that 5% hadn't been set aside, everything would still be running on the old model—and then a total collapse would have been a 100% certainty.

As if. People say the government can't go bust, sure, but these private funds? They could crumble in a heartbeat because there’s zero incentive for them not to. It’s honestly ridiculous—I'm basically forced by law to hand over my hard-earned capital to people I don't even know. Like, who are these folks anyway? And what do you even call this setup... some kind of "state-mandated capitalism" or whatever?

dustymarlin10 said:Sure, but that doesn't really help me out since I already bought in at the higher price.

A market crash is the last thing anyone wants to see right before retirement.
However, most Americans haven't even built up their core positions yet, so honestly, the lower the entry price, the better.

William Mitchell2 said:Hey, take a breath and chill out.
You haven't lost a dime.
I could go back and forth with you on investment theory all day, but it's clear you aren't even trying to make a real point—if you were, you'd actually be talking about the economy. Instead, you're just leaning on politics so you can spout nonsense without any real consequences.

Just look at how much the Nasdaq has tanked lately—not to mention the surrounding markets, or the global situation for that matter.
Even OMF managed to scrape by. Though, honestly, they share the blame for this Nasdaq slump since the government incentivized investing in those funds, which eventually triggered those massive sell-offs.

Your money isn't gone unless you actually sell—or in this case, until you start drawing from your retirement—and before that happens, this market will likely swing wildly "100" more times between hitting the moon and crashing into the abyss.

SIGNED!

William Mitchell2 said:Man, you’re lecturing people on things you clearly don't understand.
You want to stash it under a mattress? Or just let it rot in a savings account? ...
With inflation sitting at 3-5%, if it climbs any higher, they'll bleed your account dry long before you ever reach whatever "dream amount" you're aiming for in 20, 30, or 40 years.

You'll have plenty in the bank $100 but you'll only be able to afford a single bag of pepper with it.

Oh, so inflation is gonna "eat" my money, huh? Like it's gonna hit me with 15% annual inflation like these absolute clowns did!

And who actually caused that mess?

Those "brilliant" Wall Street fund managers?

William Mitchell2 said:Man, you’re lecturing people on things you clearly don't understand.
You want to stash it under a mattress? Or just let it rot in a savings account? ...
With inflation sitting at 3-5%, if it climbs any higher, they'll bleed your account dry long before you ever reach whatever "dream amount" you're aiming for in 20, 30, or 40 years.

You'll have plenty in the bank $100 but you'll only be able to afford a single bag of pepper with it.

He's got a point. It's his money, and he should be allowed to spend it however he damn well pleases. Making these types of funds mandatory is just foolish. If he wants to buy an old steam locomotive and burn fuel with dollars or euros, let him.
Mandatory funds shouldn't exist. If someone wants to save, they should do it their own way. If they don't want to, then they can deal with the consequences later. For those who physically can't save, that's a different issue entirely, which is why Social Security exists.

I've been playing in stocks, commodities, and gold for a long time. I was even messing around with shipping futures before that became a trendy pastime for Americans. Personally, I prefer making my own calls. If I blow it all, so be it. At least I'll know exactly how it happened and who to blame. As long as the game was interesting. 😉

dustymarlin10 said:I purposely posted this on the general politics board, even though in a functional country, this would belong in Forbes. But hey, we aren't exactly running a functional country here, are we?

So, what's the deal?

I’m a "proud" member of a mandatory pension fund managed by the Federal Reserve. I fall into that lucky demographic that nobody bothered to ask if they actually wanted to be part of a pension reform where you're forced to subsidize current retirees, and when it's finally my turn to collect... who knows if anyone will give a damn?

I got my account statement the other day.

Back at the start of 2008, my balance was $10967.
During the year, I contributed about $1500.

By the end of the year, my account value sat at $10733.

Basically, I got robbed of $1733, which is nearly an entire month's salary for me.

Robbed—because there isn't any other way to describe what just happened.

Those brilliant fund managers, through their sheer genius in investing, managed to evaporate my entire year's worth of contributions, and then some.

Just beautiful.

If they had just left the cash sitting in the account, it would actually be worth more.
But then there wouldn't be much point in them existing, would there?
All those massive salaries, bonuses, the prestige...

Of course, they made sure to pay themselves their full salaries and bonuses all year long. Every single month. As if they were actually doing a good job.
What a bunch of top-tier economists. People who probably couldn't find Times Square if their lives depended on it.

They estimate that this kind of heist within Vanguard amounted to 3 billion dollars last year. And that's just here in the US.

What kind of robbery? Have you not been paying attention to what's happening in the world lately? Funds are inherently volatile investments. You're overestimating the loss.

Casey Stewart17 said:What kind of robbery? Have you not been paying attention to what's happening in the world lately? Funds are inherently volatile investments. You're overestimating the loss.

That’s exactly the point. People are complaining because they're being forced into high-risk plays.

Nicole Collins13 said:That’s exactly the point. People are complaining because they're being forced into high-risk plays.

It isn't that simple. People want their cash now, but in thirty years when they realize they have zero retirement savings, they’ll happily vote for some populist party—kind of like how people flock to the Democratic Party today—just so they can lean on the government for handouts.

Is a second pillar really the smartest move here? Considering 90% of Americans don't have a college degree—which isn't even the worst part—the issue is systemic. While the market was booming, nobody complained about the second pillar, but the moment things start sliding, suddenly everyone has an opinion. Honestly, hearing someone argue they "lost money" in this climate just tells me they haven't got the slightest clue what's actually happening in the world around them...