Mother of four experiences the same enlightenment as Buddha

Master John said:Master Parsifal, would you be so kind as to share those lovely little sentiments from that lady who completely paralyzed Master Klimakos?

Let’s lean into those insults for a moment and see if we can brew up an antidote.

Master John was doing a bit of late-night Googling, and honestly, I stumbled upon a digital jungle so thick and tangled, I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like it.

It's a bit much, isn't it? Let's see where Isusic stands regarding our Master's tightrope walk, alongside Sister Bernadette. 👋

Klimakos said:No, I didn't mean "literally." It was more about certain "experiences" of my own that forced me to verify their authenticity this way. After all, I walked this path on my own terms and saw it through by myself. As for reading anything lately? Honestly, I don't do much of that anymore.

P.S. And yeah, I still plan on picking up "King Kong" once the American or perhaps the German edition is released!

😁🙂

Master John said:Looks like Klimakos finally helped John see the light.

But seriously, why don't you just share some of that wisdom from Sister Bernadette yourself? Maybe then we could actually pull you out of this paralysis, Asterix! 🙄

Master Klimakos said:Well, what exactly am I supposed to bring to the table?

Women are in a league of their own!

Honestly, I’m not quite sure why, but it seems like I’ve ended up learning most of my life lessons from women!

🙄 😲 😁

Master John said:The amateurs in the big leagues don't have a clue about what you just credited the Master for.
Come on, Klimakos, let's show them how it's done—maybe even teach a few women a thing or two along the way. Especially Sister Bernadette. 👋

Master Klimakos said:Oh, come on, of course he knows. You really should read her work yourself—then you'd see what I mean.

I honestly haven't found anyone who describes the "process of ego dissolution" with more clarity or depth than she does.

Master John said:Well then, if you're so sure you know where it is, why don't you just lay it out right HERE, Master Klimakos?
This isn't some autocratically run institution.
Everyone is more than welcome to join the conversation.

But look, the whole point of this SCHOOL is to vet ideas and establish what actually holds water.

There’s a massive disconnect between what this lady Bernadette claims to have realized and the actual experience being left for all of us here, Master Klimakos.

Let's see where this "discrepancy" is coming from. Go ahead and post her best passages right HERE—Master John is asking you nicely. 👋

hiddenpuma75 said:There have been plenty of moments in my life that left an impression on me—some were profound, others were just okay—but...

Regarding "spirituality"—whatever that might actually mean—it’s really got me thinking.

Regarding that "goose grab" (as John puts it).

Three authors and their wisdom.

Once upon a time...

Vesna Krmpotić shares her moving testimony: A Mountain Above the Clouds.

And then he goes, "He stopped me."

Nisargadatta Maharaj (Life and Words)—honestly, I’m at a loss for which to value more.

***
Then there’s Bernadette Roberts—a mother of four and a former nun—who provides this incredibly clear, sincere, and deeply convincing account. She goes into exhaustive detail, laying out exactly what happens when a person finally lets go of that "last thing" they cling to: that ultimate sense of certainty, the stubborn belief that there is a solid "yes" or an objective reality to hold onto. 😲

The sensation of "I AM."

Actually, Experience of no self was her very first book.

The mere fact that she didn't want it, didn't seek it out, and didn't even know it was coming—yet it happened to her anyway—is honestly pretty staggering.

***
Master John...

I took note of that question you posted regarding her.

I'll get those four or five key pages translated for you and everyone else.

Unfortunately, I've got some pretty heavy lifting to do over the next four or five days. My schedule is looking a bit packed with more pressing matters, but I’m really hoping to get back to this very soon.
Please, feel free to give me a nudge if you really want me to dive back in. I have to admit, though—paraphrasing someone else's words isn't exactly my favorite way to spend my time!
So, if you're looking for more, just say the word! Otherwise, I might just "accidentally" forget that there’s still more work left to be done on the translation. 😁 )

***
Now, if I were to take a quick, surface-level look at this and try to translate it—just to see what might actually be worth our time—what do you think would be the most important takeaway?

For me, my wife, and even the wise ones among us, there is something incredibly striking and deeply symbolic about how two seemingly distinct systems of ancient wisdom converge. It’s truly fascinating to see how Chinese I Ching and the Kabbalistic Tree of Life align so perfectly, despite the fact that these two traditions have no idea the other even exists.

The sheer symmetry and consistency we see here serve as a powerful testament to the truth behind both systems. 😉

It’s actually quite similar to what happens when a Christian manages to grasp and truly realize the very things Buddha taught—even if they never stepped foot in a temple or spent a single second studying Buddhism.
This event is truly massive—it’s a game-changer for Buddhism, Christianity, and honestly, anyone out there searching for the truth.

So, it’s actually happening. It's finally becoming a reality. ANNATE In the Christian tradition, there is one particular element that I hold quite dear. To me, it feels like that vital lifeline—the one thing that might actually prevent the greatest spiritual tragedy on Earth by helping Christianity find its way back to itself and undergo a true revitalization.

***

I’m going to translate that specific part where she describes her total confusion—that feeling of being completely blindsided because traditional Christianity doesn't teach about this kind of experience. It fails to prepare both the laity and the clergy for "THAT."

It really struck me how much she knew nothing about Buddhism or even the teachings of Buddha—which made it all the more fascinating when she "stumbled" upon his concepts regarding the "skandhas."

I’m also leaning toward that idea of Anatta—the concept of no self.

She finally realized that she was going through the exact same thing—the same cycle that hits him, just as much as it hits her. 😲

I was just sitting here reading through that chapter a few hours ago, and I wanted to share a few snippets of her words. I've put together my own translation of them for you all.

These are some excerpts from her third book—so, what exactly is the "self"?

str 114
My own journey toward discovering Buddha wasn't some sudden, lightning-bolt moment of clarity. It was more of a slow burn—a gradual realization that the noise of everyday life was drowning out something much deeper. For a long time, I was just running on autopilot, trying to find stability in all the wrong places. It started with a quiet curiosity, almost by accident. I began looking for ways to make sense of the chaos, searching for a way to find some inner stillness amidst the constant hustle of American life. What I eventually stumbled upon wasn't just a philosophy; it was a completely different way of perceiving reality itself. The more I delved into these teachings, the more I realized how much of my "self" was actually just a collection of habits, reactions, and social conditioning. Learning about the Experience of no self was particularly challenging—and honestly, a little humbling. It’s one thing to read about it in a book, but it's quite another to sit there and realize that the "me" I've been protecting so fiercely might not be as solid as I thought. It hasn't been an easy path, and I certainly haven't mastered anything yet. There are plenty of days where I fall right back into old patterns. But even in those moments, there's a newfound sense of grace. This discovery hasn't changed my external world, but it has fundamentally shifted how I inhabit it. It’s less about finding answers and more about learning how to sit comfortably with the questions.

''.....

Whoever first came up with this teaching about the five Skandhas clearly had firsthand experience with that permanent sense of losing them altogether.

...
Whatever happens, I feel like I finally stumbled upon exactly what I was looking for. I came across Buddha’s teachings regarding the Five Skandhas and his comparison of losing the sense of self to the collapse of a house's ridgepole. Honestly, it felt like everything clicked—it provided every single piece of insight I needed to understand Buddhism.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind: Buddhism holds a profound, far-reaching, and incredibly heavy truth.

In my view, that stands as Buddhism's most significant contribution to humanity.

I don't think we truly grasp just how monumental, massive, and profound this truth really is..
It’s easy to take certain things for granted, failing to realize just how difficult they actually are to attain..

Countless books have been written about the self and consciousness, yet none of those authors truly understood or lived what it actually entails....

...

When Buddha proclaimed that there is no eternal self (soul), he was speaking after having experienced enlightenment—that is, after the moment when the ATMAN (the self) fell away.
Therefore, it is a mistake to believe that the self doesn't exist at all;
The concept of "non-self" or "no-atman" makes no sense if it doesn't negate an experience that actually exists.
So, even though Buddha went one step further than the Hindu realization of ATMAN, nobody can take that leap without first realizing the ATMAN. To experience the loss of the self, it has to exist first. That's just how the universe works..
Since the Atman eventually falls away, it clearly isn't the Absolute or Brahman.
What we perceive as our "self" is undoubtedly the illusion we discussed earlier—an illusion that *is* the self.
However, using the term "illusion" doesn't mean the self is a lie; it simply means it is a relative truth rather than an absolute one..

....

Consciousness isn't the medium through which we perceive the self; consciousness can only perceive what it is NOT..

Master John said:BERNADETTE ROBERTS - A Believer in the Emptiness of the Mind
_________________________________

Mrs. Roberts is such a devoted, steadfast believer. I honestly think her true mission in this blessed life is to keep people like our old school mentor, Master Klimakos, firmly anchored within the bounds of Christian doctrine. She’ll hold onto those traditional teachings with everything she's got—staying consistent and unyielding—until that good man finally loses his grip on reality and goes completely mad.

It’s hard to ignore the fallout from Mr. Roberts' intense little skirmish. You can see the effects on that Master quite clearly—it's almost a bit tragic, isn't it? But really, why even try to hide it?
It seems to me that some of you are being far too hard on the virtuous Lady, treating her with a level of scrutiny she certainly hasn't earned—and honestly, I think you're being just as unfair to our enlightened Master Parsifal. Perhaps a few others in this group are guilty of the same thing, too.

That’s exactly why we should take a moment to dive into the wonderful, endless chatter of this lovely lady—it's a necessary distraction from the rigid, stuffy traditions of those heavy-handed institutional schools of enlightenment.
Roberts.

Let's be honest, Mrs. Roberts doesn't exactly start "rambling" right out of the gate—she lays it all out right there in the introduction.
Well, as the painter Tintoretto used to say, "The further you step, the deeper the sea becomes." I think that applies perfectly here. We have to face the fact that our sovereign little observer is going to start struggling somewhere around the 25-cubit mark from the surface.

Since Master Parsifal didn't immediately lose his cool after those harsh remarks—and since Master Klimakos is being even more aggressive about it—why don't we all just join forces and take down one more of those Christian golden hens? I suppose calling it a "golden calf" would be too cliché, so let's stick with the hen.
_______________________ 👋

Mrs. Roberts says, among other things:

Consciousness acts as both a veil that conceals the abyss and a bridge that spans it. Once we’ve finally made it to the other side, naturally, the bridge becomes obsolete. That’s why I don't think it matters if we begin this long trek carrying our little kits of holy cards, ringing gongs and bells, clutching sacred texts, or leaning heavily on intense religious fervor. It all serves its purpose for a time, even if it isn't the destination itself.

So, all you really have to do is just "kickstart" your spiritual journey.
Flirting—whatever the method. It honestly doesn't matter if you’re using your own specialized toolkit to get by, whether that involves things like tarot cards, meditation bells, heavy religious texts, or just leaning into peace and spiritual vibes. Hehe.

"All that 'spiritual' maneuvering, along with all the stumbling and foolishness inherent in this whole wandering endeavor, is completely acceptable," our clever little workshop specialist points out.

So, my dear Masters, Mistresses, and everyone else following along—before you dive into your diligent little notes, please make sure to notice one thing: Mrs. Roberts doesn't mention that legitimate "option" anywhere or in any way. She completely ignores the actual substance in favor of just rambling about "spirituality."
So, what she’s really saying is that she holds her silly, nonsensical little antics in the highest regard—treating them as if they're somehow beyond reproach or high quality. As if that’s the only way she can function, haha.

It also signals her complete lack of awareness regarding the personal and global "consequences" stemming from this practice she favors so much.
It’s honestly a bit exhausting to deal with how much of "humanity" seems to obsess over the supposed "necessity" and "meaning" behind chasing every single spiritual rabbit hole out there. It feels like people are constantly scrambling toward some new enlightened goal, whereas our author clearly reached a much more grounded, greener stage of understanding long ago—simply by having the wisdom to know when to step back and let things be, rather than forcing her way into places she didn't need to go.

Everything we go through should ultimately serve the purpose of growth and deep transformation. It’s all about that final, total surrender—letting go of the rigid images we hold of ourselves and the narrow concepts we cling to, until we arrive at a life defined by selfless giving. Once you reach that point where there is truly nothing left to surrender and nothing left to offer, you finally reach the end of the path. That is when consciousness itself ends, along with our small, personal ideas of what God might be. Honestly, once you catch even a single glimpse of the true Godhead, you wouldn't ever want a version of God back.

"Surrender"—though some might say that's a bit of an overstatement—is what this spirited Christian woman is preaching to us. According to her, it’s the absolute baseline, the non-negotiable prerequisite if you want to actually pull off her recommended version of the Christian way of life.

Just some random thoughts, dear Lady Roberts.

Playing out this whole "surrender" routine gesture by gesture—especially before you’re actually ready—is nothing more than an exercise in coddling your own ego. It’s just a way to stroke that very "self" we're talking about; the same one that clings so desperately to all those mental images and concepts of yours. Heh.
That whole idea of "devotion" driven by logic and willpower? Honestly, it’s about as useful as shoving a hot chili pepper up a donkey's backside just to get it to sit still.

To all my dear Masters, Mistresses, aspiring practitioners, and students of this incredible school: please make sure to add this one crucial point to your diligent notes. True devotion isn't just a feeling you chase—it is entirely possible and achievable, but it can only be born from genuine realization. We are talking about that profound moment of insight. It is only after reaching that ultimate understanding that true devotion becomes real.
That’s exactly how Master John used to teach us back in the day.

Do you really disagree with what I just said in my last insight? Honestly, we’re just holding ourselves back—it’s hard to even lie to ourselves when we're being this stubborn.

True devotion is impossible without first recognizing that we are all kin, and it remains out of reach until we truly grasp the fundamental Unity of all things.
And that right there is a significant trend, brothers and sisters.
It’s that healing flash of recognition—that sudden clarity regarding everything and anything—that has to be firmly established within your very being first. Only then can you truly grasp and live out True Superiority. I'm certainly not talking about that meager, forced version our Sister Bernadette tries to push. That pathetic Christian take just doesn't cut it.

Stephan: In what ways does the journey toward the Experience of no self within the Christian contemplative tradition diverge from the paths outlined in Hindu and Buddhist teachings?

Bernadette Roberts: I honestly feel like the window might have closed on me truly grasping how other faiths interpret this specific passage. Because if you aren't prepared to surrender your entire existence—your very consciousness—to a personal God whom you love and trust, then what exactly is the point of the surrender?

Has our dear Lady Roberts ever even heard of the "Iron Gauntlet Challenge"? Honestly, we’ve been gliding through her shallow little ramblings at our local community college like a hot knife through butter—and it hasn't even been a full year. Who exactly does she think we are?

Unless you’ve truly surrendered every single ounce of your being—unless you have completely "poured out" your entire consciousness... well, hehe.

To whom or for whom?
Who is actually the one doing the paying? Or rather, who is footing the bill?
For what purpose?
Why?
How exactly?
How long is too long?
Is it a daybreak, or just another long night?
But just how much are we talking about here?
Is anyone actually measuring this fairly?
.........................................

Mrs. Roberts is going to be owing you all answers to your questions for a long, long time.
I can't help but chuckle at how wildly optimistic Master John is being—assuming he’ll actually grasp the essence of what you're even asking him in the first place! Hehe.

Why even bother with the act of surrendering? People often get hung up on the idea that losing the ego or dissolving the self is the whole point. But honestly, that's just a side effect of the process. Losing yourself isn't the actual objective or the ultimate destination—it’s just something that happens along the way.

It’s really just the same old story, isn't it? A classic case of "same old, same old."
Mrs. Choking Christian—who’s basically acting like some sort of rogue disciple of Master Klimakos—is completely flipping everything we know about the "Spiritual Path and Life" on its head. Honestly, watching her try to reinterpret those core experiences is like watching someone stumble through a bar at closing time.

Oh, the tragedy of it all! Honestly, I can't say I’m surprised that Master Klimakos is dealing with this kind of supernatural spiritual constipation. It’s like one of those old sayings—just hang in there, buddy, you're still breathing!

Maybe this aligns with the perspective found in Mahayana Buddhism as well. In that tradition, the ultimate mission is to liberate every living being from their suffering, viewing the dissolution of the ego—the experience of no self—as a vital stepping stone toward achieving that much larger, more compassionate purpose.

Since when did Mahayana Buddhism suddenly decide it needed a specific, set-in-stone goal? Seriously, my goodness, people! It feels like we're just making up rules now.
It feels like we’re all standing here trying to puff out our chests and act like tough guys—pardon me, I suppose we're all supposed to be masculine "Masters" here, right? I guess that's just what happens when we all have that noble, lofty spiritual "goal" staring us right in the face.

The goal and true spirituality are like two old friends hanging out together—they go hand in hand with everything from the devil’s tridents to the scent of liturgical incense. It’s what defines a real lady and a true gentleman.
How can we even let someone like Christian—our very own Iron Lady—be such an embarrassment? It’s honestly pathetic to listen to her blathering on about some supposed "higher purpose." And don't even get me started on how she weaponizes all that bitter, nasty rhetoric from this world just to make her point.

No matter how you look at it, there’s barely any distance between having a "goal" and finding true MEANING. It's such a razor-thin margin that any overeager missionary can easily slip through the cracks.

This perspective aligns perfectly with the Christian longing to ensure that every soul finds salvation. From where I stand, if you don't have a personal God to lean on, a Buddhist essentially needs a much more robust, unshakable faith in the "unconditioned and unbegotten." It’s a different kind of strength compared to what’s required of a Christian contemplative, who views their spiritual journey as a direct act of God—something being done *to* them, rather than anything they are accomplishing through their own effort.

Master John really needs to take a breather tonight from all these high-minded theories people are throwing around. It’s getting a bit much. And honestly, it isn't just about what was said here—Master John was also spinning quite a tale earlier regarding our dear Sister Bernadette, who has always been such an inspiration to Master Klimakos.

The snow is truly a miracle of our Christian faith, yet Master John stands all alone and quite vulnerable.
So, I am asking all of you to step up and help us protect Master Klimakos from this stagnation and paralysis. Let’s get him back on his feet. Thank God he hasn't been struck by AIDS yet, though given how this medical service operates, it could have easily happened.

The lovely Lady Roberts—in case you weren't aware—is also so sweetly identified by her Christian name, haha. She is the sole sweetness in the heart of this mute cyclone and the source of all this endless bickering.

Dear honored guests and listeners, Master John realizes that those twenty-five laps around the bags might already be far beyond your reach. No matter. Just take Master John at his word.

The Master has seen the enlightened Lady Roberts struggle and writhe many times, and she wasn't even halfway there. What would Tintoretto say about that? He’d probably just make a quick sketch of the lady. "A Lady in Agony," perhaps is what the painter would call it.

She struggles and writhes, Bernadette, and she blames him so piercingly that Master John’s very manhood stood erect at the mention of those eras:

"Klimakoseeeeeeee, Klimakoseeeeee! Spaaaaasiiiiii meeeeeee, spaaaaaaasiiiiii meeeeee."🙂 🙄 😎

ambereagle642 said:You're absolutely right, John! I couldn't agree more. 😁

hiddenpuma75 said:AMBEREAGLE642 SAYS: ''

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I just want to add a little more to this straight-shooting commentary from our one and only, truly untouchable placidharbor7! In my opinion, he still hasn't quite shaken off—or rather, wrestled down—that fourth or fifth stubborn Zen-Bull that seems to be hovering over him. It’s not even bothering him, really; it's just standing there, refusing to let him get even an inch of progress, making it impossible for him to actually stare those fierce eyes down and "conquer" them so he can finally move forward.

quote:
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placidharbor7 says: There is no DEVOTION without "recognizing" the Self, nor can there be any without "realizing" ONENESS.
And let me tell you, brothers and sisters, that is a massive MOMENT.
It’s that healing FLASH OF RECOGNITION regarding everything and anything, which must first be evidenced within your own being before you can truly grasp and practice TRUE DEVOTION. Not that pathetic, forced version we see from our sister Bernadette. That poor, typical Christian kind.

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If you had actually read her book instead of just pulling random snippets out of context like this, you’d realize she’s saying the exact same thing!

The term 'Christian mystic'—that seems to be your hang-up—is why you're stuck on that possessive label. If you ignored that, maybe you could actually find something worth praising in her words!

🙄 😁

ambereagle642 said:John, I’m not looking for someone to blame here; I’m just stating what I see.

I don't see "John" when I look at you—I see God, who chooses to manifest through this temporary human shell called John. And right now, in this very moment, he decides to act like an 'ENLIGHTENED, ARROGANT FOOL,' spoiling everyone else's blissful joy. But please know, I love you. I really do...

The language of the SPIRIT is pure paradox, which is why everything feels so contradictory and disconnected. But hey, that’s just how it works for those clever, interconnected schemers out there. I love you...

😁 🙂

placidharbor7 said:I mean, it could have been written in Klingon for all we care, right?

What's even the point of all this noise?

That’s really the heart and soul of placidharbor7's objection.

When it comes to books—a Probudjenog can read between the lines using just a single word.
If that one word touches on PROBUDJENOST, then even a single letter is enough to get the point across.

As for those "Christian mystics," placidharbor7 has already pointed out what their fate would be.

If they had lived in a different era, none of them would even be labeled "Christian."

Garota was always lurking in the shadows, trying to catch a break, dear truth seeker.

A million lies have been served up from that mess.
And honestly, it's still happening today. 👋

ambereagle642 said:Look, once someone actually reaches the CORE, they simply can't identify with anything anymore—even if they wanted to! Why? Because there’s nothing left to latch onto.
At the same time, they are everything. It’s both everything and nothing at once.

Now, WHO she chooses to identify with is a completely different story altogether.