Mother of four experiences the same enlightenment as Buddha

redrider63, it seems to me that you are overreaching in several respects. This discourse regarding Being, this "I AM" state, isn't nearly as mystical as you seem to imagine it to be.

Where did I ever suggest that it was MYSTICAL?

Why would you assume I am IMAGINING anything at all?

I am merely stating WHAT IS TO BE SAID.

IT IS VERY SIMPLE AND REQUIRES NO IMAGINATION.

What I essentially meant to convey was that Buddha did not explicitly speak of the transcendental, as doing so would only lead the questioners into further confusion. Treat this "BECAUSE" very conditionally, just like any other "since," "therefore," or "due to."

DO NOT introduce the TRANSCENDENTAL
because it is irrelevant to our current discussion. In the example I referenced, Buddha SIMPLY ANSWERED without any concession, immediately rejecting Being directly by simply seeing THAT WHICH IS. In doing so, he stripped away all mental constructs and broke through openly.

In this specific instance, there was no concession. I did not claim that Buddha didn't practice such concessions in other contexts.

The DISSOLUTION OF THE MIND does not mean that a "person" cannot UNDERSTAND. What we refer to as the "MIND" is essentially Being, merely "apparently separate." That is to say, after the dissolution of the mind, the functions of what we previously called the mind still remain, only now they are inseparable from….

THE DISSOLUTION OF THE MIND is THE DISSOLUTION OF THE MIND, and there is no room for UNDERSTANDING here, because once the mind IS DISSOLVED, there is nothing rational left; one might even say that MU no longer exists. All descriptions come afterward and, therefore, have no CONNECTION to the event itself.
That is to say, everything else you are discussing has nothing to do with the DISSOLUTION itself, even if it pertains to describing the INDESCRIBABLE.

Being "speaks" even when a donkey brays, yet we don't "SHINE" at every single donkey's bray.

BEING SPEAKS even when the donkey is SILENT.

And we "SHINE" ALL THE TIME.
👋

soto-njara 🙂🙂

Even if Buddha pushed things further than the Hindu realization of ATMAN, nobody can take that leap without first realizing ATMAN. It’s basic logic. To experience the loss of self, there has to be a self to lose in the first place. That’s just how the gears turn.

Loss of self? What are we even talking about here?

If you’re referring to the self—the ATMAN (the Absolute, God)—then there’s nothing left to lose. What exactly are you aiming at??

Since ATMAN eventually falls away, it clearly isn't the ABSOLUTE or BRAHMAN.

Who says it falls away? And where exactly does it go??

I honestly can't wrap my head around what teta is getting at.😕

What kind of nonsense is this...
----------------------------

I’m talking about those ego-chasers 🙂

He’s just as obsessed with praising Raman here—nothing but an ignorant amateur playing at being a seeker of truth.

It’s simply NOT true

We've already categorized Raman among the enlightened masters.

Four-legged Dugokurčić 🙂

1 - You claim he made no concessions to a particular CONSCIOUSNESS. If that's the case, then quite simply, he wasn't ENLIGHTENED. It’s like Ramanin’s cow—it just isn't.

Why would HE need to make concessions to a specific consciousness? He—the "he," the "she," the "it"—HE IS the specific consciousness.

The Self IS; a specific consciousness functions, and nobody is obligated to make any concessions to anyone else.😁 😉

By "specific consciousness," I mean the personality—the individual and their outward expression (how they write, talk, eat, etc.).

Who, then, would be the one making concessions here? Certainly not him; it would have to be some third party.🙂

ambereagle642 said:That is just plain wrong

We always put Raman in the category of enlightened masters...

I can’t for the life of me remember which page it was on, but I swear Ivancek once claimed that even Raman’s teachings couldn't hold a candle to his own enlightened school of thought. Honestly, I think he only said it because apparently Raman used to pray to some Indian deity or something like that...

🙄

Klimakos Serakose said:I can't recall the exact page, but I remember Ivancek once claiming that even Ramanin's teachings couldn't hold a candle to his own enlightened school of thought. My guess? It was likely because he supposedly spent his time praying to some Indian deity or some such nonsense.

🙄

Klimakos Serakose, listen: placidharbor7 integrated Master Raman's very foundations into his own SCHOOL from day one.
In Master Raman's "COW," he interrogated the first MASTERS: Ygraina, Parsifal, Karen Sanchez19, and Herpes (Daigu).

this is true😁

THE SUBMERSION OF THE MIND is THE SUBMERSION OF THE MIND. There is no room for LOGIC there, because once the mind is submerged, nothing rational remains. They would say even Manchester United doesn't exist then.

Submersion is an action verb. It requires time...

How exactly is a mind supposed to submerge itself???

They mean the mind must be stilled, but only RELATIVELY—because I am not someone who merely thinks...
I AM.
Thoughts continue to exist.🙂

?The Ultimate Long-Distance Marathon?

😂 😂 😂 🙂 🙂

MAJSTOR John said:The four-legged marathon

😂 😂 🙂 🙂

👋 🙂

John, do you remember that debate back at the high school...

We were arguing about the THRONE being upside down.

It was lame how he had five legs.🙂

Klimakosov said:I can't quite recall which page this was on, but I remember Ivancek once claiming that even Ramanin's teachings couldn't hold a candle to his own enlightened school of thought. I think he said that because apparently, Ramanin used to pray to some Indian deity or something along those lines.

🙄

WHAAAAAAT?!

Next time, just jump straight from your chair and go after placidharbor7!
Let's not drag out these misunderstandings at least when it comes to the SKOL.
Forget about placidharbor7 anyway—he’s already "enlightened," haha! 😉

Karen Sanchez19 said:👋 🙂

John, do you remember that crazy debate we had back at the academy?

We were arguing about the nature of the THRONE in such a backwards way!

Master Lame was practically a five-legged creature during that whole thing! 🙂

IIIIII - AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA - IIIII - AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, ...!!!!

How could you ever forget those ENLIGHTENED moments, Karen Sanchez19?

Anyway, you were asking about "devotion."

Zen explained it so simply to us—you know, that idea of "When I'm hungry, I eat; when I'm thirsty, I drink."

You just "take in" life as it comes, without constantly judging or weighing its value.

But honestly, can you even reach that state until you've had that true 'INSIGHT'?
Klimakosov's mistress really flipped the script on that one, much like how Master Lame handled his tripod situation, haha!
😲 👋 🙂

"When I'm hungry, I eat. When I'm thirsty, I drink.

But when I'm on a diet, suddenly I'm fasting. 🙂🙂

Klimakosov's mistress flipped his tripod upside down, just like Master Lame did with his own, haha.

The man uses an asymmetrical five-legged stool.🙂

People claim they need to quiet their thoughts, but that’s only true in a RELATIVE sense, because I am not merely someone who thinks
I AM the thought itself..
The stream of consciousness remains constant.

🙂 🙂 🙂

bluć!

Quote:

Karen Sanchez19 says to redrider63: Who actually thinks redrider63 said that? I mean, seriously... :'' -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Even though Buddha took that extra step beyond the Hindu realization of ATMAN, you simply can't make that leap unless you've first realized ATMAN yourself. It’s just how things work—to experience the loss of self, there has to be a "self" there to begin with. 'So, Karen Sanchez19 is asking redrider63 because they thought the following was actually a quote from them: What kind of nonsense is this now... If you’re focusing on the true Self—on ATMAN, the Absolute, or God—then really, what is there to lose? What exactly do you mean by that? Who on earth is out there deciding what counts as trash and what doesn't? I honestly can't quite wrap my head around what Auntie is getting at.😕

Karen Sanchez19, I honestly don't know what I did to offend you, but man, you really went for the jugular!

Honestly, you’re the only person here who actually manages to get under my skin.
Neither Klimakosov, nor Master Lame, nor John, nor anyone else—not even those die-hard IL fans who always seem to be getting a laugh out of me—can actually pull it off.

What exactly is the secret behind this magical influence you have over my soul? 😈

Maybe it’s just because you’re my favorite person here—you really are our little mascot! 🙂

***
Just a heads-up for Karen Sanchez19—you know, the one who manages to show up 45 minutes late to every single meeting while simultaneously losing her phone so nobody can actually reach her. 😠

Just so everyone else is in the loop.

The top Quote that Karen Sanchez19 keeps citing—which she’s convinced was actually written by reddrider63—is quite something.
It’s definitely not redrider63's keyboard that did this.

So, hiddenpuma7 is actually quoting Bernadette Roberts from her work—specifically that deep dive into "what is self." It’s pretty fascinating stuff when you really sit with it.

It’s all laid out beautifully in those introductory posts by hiddenpuma75—provided, of course, that you actually know how to read. It’s much easier to just speculate about the absolute than it is to actually sit down and look at what’s written on the page.

***
And you, redrider63, might want to be a little more careful with how you quote things... you're starting to leave people feeling a bit confused.

It feels like you often find yourself just quoting things rather than actually offering your own take on them.
It’s exactly like that—that’s how you were acting in that thread I started, the one about where the individual ends and everything else begins.

He went and quoted my entire post, but did it in such a way that he just lifted the whole thing word-for-word—without even giving me credit or putting his own name on it! He basically just slapped his own handle at the bottom and called it his own.

Look, I know you weren't trying to rip anyone off.
🙄

Maybe you were just looking for a way to recreate that feeling you enjoyed so much.

Or maybe you were planning on saying something else and just lost your train of thought?

Or, if anyone actually knows what you meant by that... please, do tell! 🙂

But that’s just not how you handle things. You end up leaving people completely in the dark, creating this unnecessary confusion for folks who don't even realize what's actually going on.

**
Please, let’s learn how to properly use the quote function. When you reply, take a moment to actually comment on what you’re quoting—tell us why you’re bringing it up or clarify exactly who you are addressing. Let's try to keep our threads organized and, more importantly, let's maintain some decorum. Be polite and stay classy.

What exactly is the deal with the daycare lady?
If anyone’s struggling with how to use the quote function, don't sweat it—just reach out to our wonderful moderator, Auntie Blaise, and she'll get you sorted. 🙂

Karen Sanchez19 said:What kind of "self" are we even talking about here?..

If you’re referring to the true Self—the ATMAN (the Absolute, God)—then there isn't much to lose. What exactly do you have in mind??

The issue is that the spiritual community is plagued by total terminological confusion.

And honestly, hardly anyone—whether they are seasoned DUHOVNJAKs, newcomers, or even established masters—bothers to study Kabbalah. It is essentially the mathematics of spirituality, providing a precise place for everything under the heavens within a perfect hieroglyph known as the Tree of Life.

It’s a clever idea, but frankly, half of it is wrong and a bit crude, if I may say so.

The Tree of Life, through its ten emanations, serves as a blueprint of the universe as designed by the Architect—showing how it is, how it is perceived, and how things ought to be viewed correctly.

Think of the Tree of Life as a "cabinet" with ten shelves; you can place every single thing, concept, or idea onto a specific shelf, ensuring you don't confuse anyone else.

It’s quite beautiful and useful, but it has one tiny catch.

Mathematics is the final veil standing before the image of Truth.🙂

Accordingly, Kabbalah and its glyph, the Tree of Life, represent the ultimate veil preceding the image of spiritual truth (because, just as math governs the physical world, Kabbalah governs the spiritual realm).

The problem is that Kabbalah is just as rigorous as mathematics; it requires a lifetime of dedicated study.
But why spend years studying Kabbalah when you can become a Reiki master in two or three years, perform a few tricks, and charge people hundreds or even thousands of dollars for various "initiations"?

***
Still, it’s a good question to ask: what actually constitutes the "self"?

Our friend Bernadette Roberts worked hard to answer this in her third book, *What Is Self*, spanning 216 pages of serious inquiry without any chat rooms or emojis.🙂

Everyone seems to think they know exactly what is meant when they say "I," "Self," "Ego," "Consciousness," "Enlightenment," or "God"—and then they claim victory and move on to prosperity...

When in reality, they don't know at all!!

So, Bernadette diligently demonstrates

what the "self" truly is

by examining various spiritual traditions, such as

Hinduism,
Jungian psychology,
Buddhism,

her own experiences,

and more.

For instance, she begins her discussion with a vital premise:

"Because the terms 'self' and 'consciousness' express THE SAME EXPERIENCES (as noted by hiddenpuma75),

and since nothing can be said of one that cannot be said of the other, we use these terms interchangeably and affirm that the true nature of self IS consciousness."

(This reminds me that I was actually the one who started this thread

asking how you all would translate the distinction between CONSCIOUSNESS and AWARENESS into American English,

since they aren't quite the same thing in the teachings of Nisargadatta, yet we seem stuck with just one word to cover it all.)

hiddenpuma75 said this:

I honestly don't get what Auntie is on about.

😂😂

I just don't understand her—I'm talking about Aunt Bernadette.

What is the secret behind this magical influence you have over my soul?

I’m not even trying, yet I still manage to impact you. How does that work?🙂

There you go again, being Parsifal:

hiddenpuma75

The quote above that Karen Sanchez19 is citing while mistakenly thinking it was written by reddrider63
It wasn't the work of reddrider63's keyboard

Rather, it's hiddenpuma75 quoting (translating) the words of Bernadette Roberts from her book—*What Is Self*

Honestly, why is it such a struggle to decipher Karen Sanchez19's words?

I just don't understand this aunt.

=

I just don't understand that aunt; I mean aunt Bernadette.

Just so everyone is aware regarding Karen Sanchez19 (who manages to show up 45 minutes late to meetings while simultaneously losing her phone so you can't even call her to find out where she is).

Seriously, redrider63, by the time he finally showed up to meet us under the statue of George Washington in the middle of D.C., we were practically covered in bird droppings from waiting so long, yet somehow he was still running behind.

🙂

Waiting for 50 minutes.😉 🙂 🙂

Karen Sanchez19 said:Man, why did redrider63 make us wait under the spray of Niagara Falls? By the time he finally showed up, we were practically covered in pigeon droppings from waiting so long!

🙂

He was 50 minutes late.😉 🙂 🙂

Basically, if you're meeting up with Karen Sanchez19, you should probably tell her you want to meet 50 minutes before you actually intend to show up.

JUST DON'T LET HER KNOW THAT'S THE PLAN. 🙂

(Otherwise, she’d probably end up being 100 minutes late herself. 🙂 )

***
It reminds me of when a struggling amateur golfer once asked me:

"How can I actually improve my game?"

-hiddenpuma75: "Listen, stop trying to play the shots you *think* are good. Instead, try playing the ones you think are weak—they'll likely turn out to be much better moves than what you originally intended." 😁

I gave him some pretty wise advice there. 🙂