Domestic transfers and payments in USD

Go jump in a lake

but how on earth can you be sure it was actually fraud?

I’ve spent plenty of money online myself over the years and I’ve never run into a single issue.

The thing is, you really have to watch what you're doing when you're checking out.

It’s possible that way down at the bottom of the page, there was some little checkbox—you know, the kind that’s pre-checked by default where you "agree" to everything—for some random subscription service.

So, by just hitting "approve" on the transaction without unchecking that box, they basically signed you up for some membership you didn't even want.

Now, the big question is whether that kind of "forced" membership is actually legal or not—I mean, if they're refunding the money, it clearly isn't sitting right with them—but man, you seriously need to be careful when you're buying stuff online.

And look, laws in the US work a bit differently; people here will sue anyone for pretty much anything, so when a lawyer gets in touch with a company, it’s usually cheaper for them to just cough up those few bucks than to deal with a lawsuit.

Terry Howard said:So, what's your take on this? Ran right into it while I was grabbing some Broadway tickets online earlier.

We’re talking about protection against "interception" here, which is exactly what shadowbison was bringing up, and if I recall correctly, he totally misread my point. The flaws aren't really in that layer of security; the real issue is the entity you’re actually handing your data over to. I’ll be the first to admit you can never truly know who you're dealing with, and anyone could try to play you, but there is a massive difference between using your card at a major retailer like Walmart versus some obscure website that might vanish by next Tuesday. To circle back to the whole question of liability... the buck still stops with you. You're on the hook until you can actually prove the misuse happened, and proving that is an uphill battle when you're browsing the web, especially when your only defense is the weak argument that "it happened to someone else too."

George Barrett35 said:We’re talking about protection against "interception" here, which is exactly what shadowbison was bringing up, and if I recall correctly, he totally misread my point. The flaws aren't really in that layer of security; the real issue is the entity you’re actually handing your data over to. I’ll be the first to admit you can never truly know who you're dealing with, and anyone could try to play you, but there is a massive difference between using your card at a major retailer like Walmart versus some obscure website that might vanish by next Tuesday. To circle back to the whole question of liability... the buck still stops with you. You're on the hook until you can actually prove the misuse happened, and proving that is an uphill battle when you're browsing the web, especially when your only defense is the weak argument that "it happened to someone else too."

But it is true, it did happen to many people. That is why they immediately brought in pro bono lawyers and the money was returned right away. I had mentioned that US banks tend to protect their clients immediately by canceling their cards, and some even go as far as contacting the third-party company themselves to demand a refund.
What I meant to convey was that, regarding my specific inquiry, JP Morgan Chase didn't really do anything at all; instead, they treated me as if I were the primary culprit.
The real kicker was when they told me they would block my card, yet the charges would somehow continue to hit my account regardless.....

Look, there's a cost involved here and someone has to foot the bill. It would be completely absurd to expect a bank to cover for someone else's negligence. Until actual fraud is PROVEN—and honestly, wasn't a receipt necessary in the first place?—this just looks like your own oversight. It would be even more ridiculous if JP Morgan Chase spent their time chasing down some random scammer somewhere in the US just to claw back your $9. And let’s be clear: if they freeze your card, that doesn't magically wipe away the charges you've already racked up.

George Barrett35 said:Look, there's a cost involved here and someone has to foot the bill. It would be completely absurd to expect a bank to cover for someone else's negligence. Until actual fraud is PROVEN—and honestly, wasn't a receipt necessary in the first place?—this just looks like your own oversight. It would be even more ridiculous if JP Morgan Chase spent their time chasing down some random scammer somewhere in the US just to claw back your $9. And let’s be clear: if they freeze your card, that doesn't magically wipe away the charges you've already racked up.

After reading through the original post again, I still think I'm right. This feels less like customer negligence and more like a case of data being "resold."

The issue isn't just about who you hand your info to; it’s about who the companies you trust decide to sell that info to. You see news stories all the time about massive data breaches or credit card info getting stolen from major corporations. Take TJX Companies, for example. They nearly went under when they "lost"—or rather, had stolen—the card details of over 45 million customers (http://www.securityfocus.com/brief/505). Those people didn't even have a direct business relationship with TJX; their payment processors did. I could probably list at least 30 different cases where credit card data was swiped from big retailers or other organizations, not the actual card issuers or the users themselves. Even Visa had a huge amount of data stolen a few years back. In those situations, you don't expect the customer to have to prove they didn't make the transaction.

I mean, isn't it normal for the rules to favor the weaker party? In this case, the end user—the cardholder. Let the big institutions argue among themselves about who owes what. At the end of the day, an individual consumer is always at a disadvantage when trying to debate the "rightness" of a situation with a giant bank.

I knew someone who was a client of Bank of America. Do you know how they handled stuff like this? If they noticed a suspicious charge, they’d just fax over their Bank of America statement, circle the transactions, and ask for them to be reversed. And wouldn't you know it? They’d reverse them, no heavy lifting or proof required. Since Bank of America is such a massive institution, they could easily spot patterns in similar complaints and had a "knowledge base" for these exact types of transactions. Banks and card networks talk to each other constantly; they resolve these things when multiple clients report the same type of fraudulent transaction across different institutions. So, I find it hard to believe the card department at JP Morgan Chase (or any other major bank) wouldn't have access to info showing that this specific scam is popping up everywhere. These "membership fees" are classic—they're small enough that most people don't even notice them, and the names sound totally innocent.

And why do banks often issue refunds without demanding proof that the client didn't make the purchase? (By the way, it is incredibly difficult and ungrateful to have to prove you *didn't* perform a financial transaction.) It's because keeping more people using their cards lowers their operational costs—like the cost of handling cash—and boosts interest income. Because of that, they're willing to absorb a slightly higher loss from fraud. Ultimately, it's bad rules and outdated card processing systems that allow these scams to exist, not the customers. Just look at debit cards. Every single transaction requires a PIN, and since PINs are pretty well-protected, the rate of fraud with debit cards is way lower than with credit cards.

I really appreciate you providing that explanation, shadowbison.
By the way, it seems like JP Morgan Chase managed to lose my new Visa card. I can't quite tell if it was just some random oversight or perhaps something more intentional, but they actually gave me a call yesterday to let me know it had "gone missing."

And then 😁Richard Lewis16
tells me he doesn't even bother with Bank of America.

Yeah, I mean, they’re basically just another version of JP Morgan Chase at this point...

I just sold something and shipped it directly to the buyer's house, so now I need to send over my routing number, account number, and full name.
I’ve got all the numbers ready except for the bank routing number—what actually is that? Where can I find it on my card, and should I be giving him my checking or savings account info?
Please help me out here; I need to get these details to the guy tonight so he can wire the payment.

Note: I have both checking and savings accounts at Bank of America and JP Morgan Chase.

If you look at your card, you’ll see the account number listed there. That first set of digits, say something like 248 followed by all those blanks, that’s just the prefix
whereas the part starting with 32 is actually your real account number.

Is that maybe the routing number? I see this specific number on my card, or is the bank's prefix that sequence of five groups of four digits?

Chase => 2340009- your account number
Bank of America => 2360000 - your account number

I’m just praying they actually dropped that money into your checking account... because if they didn't... 🙄 🙂 😁
the IRS is going to have a field day.

Jessica Fisher4 said:Is that maybe the routing number? I see this specific number on my card, or is the bank's prefix that sequence of five groups of four digits?

Man, that's just the card number itself. 🙂

I wasn't entirely certain whether this topic belonged here or in the appropriate sub-forum, so please accept my apologies if I have misstepped

Yesterday, I discovered an unauthorized charge of $500 on my Mastercard. It was almost certainly an online transaction, given that the physical card remains at home—in fact, I rarely even carry it with me. While I do shop online occasionally, I strictly use PayPal, and there is no record of this specific $500 transaction within my PayPal history. Naturally, I contacted customer service immediately to freeze the card. The charge is scheduled to settle on February 1st. My bank has provided several forms which I have already completed, essentially swearing that I am not responsible for the purchase and have had no dealings with the merchant in question. The transaction originated from a vendor in Italy just before the holidays. What happens next? Am I simply to wait while the bank conducts its investigation? Has anyone else dealt with a situation like this...

It doesn't necessarily mean it happened through an online payment.
If I remember correctly, there were recently reports of cards being skimmed at ATMs and cash being pulled in Italy. Maybe you’re one of those victims and the charge just finally hit your account.
Have you even used an ATM to withdraw cash in the last few months?

I posted earlier about how Microsoft charged me $50 on December 28th, even though I never actually spent that money. It’s not showing up anywhere in my PayPal history, but my online banking shows the charge came from a Square terminal.
It's weird because it's been ten days and the funds are still marked as pending—meaning they're technically sitting in my account—but normally these things clear in two or three days. I'm honestly stuck on what to do next.😢 It's pretty obvious PayPal is pulling some shady moves here.👎

I use this card exclusively for PayPal transactions; I have never, under any circumstances, used it to withdraw cash from an ATM. About a month ago, I made some purchases on credit through Best Buy and Target, but my card information remained secure... unless someone managed to pull something through them.

It also strikes me as rather peculiar that one transaction was processed on December 27th while the second didn't occur until the 31st. One would assume that if someone were actually attempting to steal, they would drain as much as possible in a single go, rather than casually returning four days later to repeat the act. Besides, I cannot be expected to constantly monitor my Mastercard online, and my bank doesn't send SMS alerts for these types of charges—they simply provide a monthly statement once the damage is already done.