Westerners and Eastern spiritual practices

Sedmica said:Jung argues that yoga isn't really built for us Americans. Our collective unconscious functions differently, and he suggests we don't even hit a decent level of psychological balance until we're well into our mid-30s. For those who haven't reached that stability, he claims yoga can become a bit of a refuge for neurotic types trying—and failing—to fix their issues through the wrong channels.

A few days after reading this, I happened to catch a segment on TV about a guy who joined some Eastern religious group. After living with them for just a few months, he ended up in a psychiatric ward. He was suffering from seizures that looked almost like epilepsy and was clearly a nervous wreck. They interviewed both him and his psychiatrist. The doctor explained that Eastern spiritual practices often clash with the American psyche because our inherited archetypes in the subconscious are fundamentally different from those in the Far East. Attempting these techniques can actually be pretty damaging to an American's mental health by triggering archetypes that don't "fit" our psychological makeup. To top it off, the psychiatrist noted that the young man likely would have never faced these specific mental breakdowns if he had sought guidance through a traditional Christian church instead.

I'm curious to hear what everyone else thinks about this. How much truth do you think there is to this idea?

From what I have gathered, Jung frequently argued that the first half of one's life should be oriented "outward"—essentially focused on establishing one's footing and status in society—whereas the second half should shift "inward" toward introspection and self-discovery.

Regardless, the reality is that certain individuals are by default oriented "inward" from their very youth... and that often leads to all sorts of tragicomic consequences regarding their "worldly lives."😁

On the other hand, I would argue that the true role of psychiatrists and psychologists is simply to ensure their clients don't deviate too drastically from societal norms in terms of attitude and behavior, ultimately aiming to keep them functioning as productive members of the workforce, blah, blah...

Can I truly claim any real competence in determining what is actually good for someone or what isn't? 😕

We young Americans tend to get incredibly worked up about all sorts of things and convictions in a way that can look strikingly similar to "religious fanaticism"... and even traditional religion isn't always an exception here.

Enchantress said:A few days after I finished reading this particular thread, I happened to stumble upon a television program discussing a young man who decided to join some sort of Far East religious organization, only to end up in a psychiatric ward after living with them for a few months. He was suffering from seizures that looked remarkably like epilepsy and was clearly in a state of severe nervous breakdown. Beyond just interviewing the individual, they actually interviewed his psychiatrist, who offered a rather striking explanation: he suggested that Far Eastern spiritual approaches are fundamentally mismatched for the Western psyche. The core issue, according to him, lies in the fact that our genetically inherited subconscious archetypes are entirely different from those found in people from the Far East. Engaging in these Eastern spiritual practices can be profoundly damaging to a Westerner's mental stability precisely because it awakens these incompatible archetypes. To drive the point home, the psychiatrist asserted that the psychological trauma this young man experienced would likely never have occurred had he sought guidance within a traditional Christian church instead.

I am curious to hear the community's thoughts on this matter and how much credence we should give to such an argument.

It is quite clear that Jung completely misunderstood the mechanics at play here; frankly, anyone seeking out yoga in the first place must already be significantly disturbed...

I honestly think we’re looking at a bit of an anomaly here—mostly because there are so many examples of Westerners who have successfully integrated Eastern spiritual practices and lifestyles into their daily lives. If this were some kind of widespread, regular phenomenon, then sure, you could take that psychiatrist’s statement seriously. But as it stands? I’d be more inclined to call him a psychiatrist with a bit of a bias... 🙄

Regarding various Eastern physical disciplines, I find myself having no issue with them whatsoever.

However, as far as everything else is concerned, my stance remains unchanged.

The psychiatrist basically explained that the whole Eastern approach to spirituality doesn't really click with the average American. It’s mostly because our subconscious archetypes—the stuff we're hardwired with—are fundamentally different from people living in the Far East. Diving deep into those Eastern spiritual practices can actually be pretty damaging to an American's psyche because you end up triggering all these mismatched archetypes. To top it off, the doctor mentioned that if this guy had just turned to a local Christian church instead, he probably never would have run into these specific mental health issues in the first place!

😂 😂 😂 😂 😂

First off, let's get one thing straight: nobody actually found enlightenment through those "Western" spiritual techniques! (And honestly, they didn't find it out "West" either)

So, have you guys actually stumbled upon any Western spiritual practices yet, or are we still looking? 😂

😕 What do you mean by "Western techniques"?
What even is the West? Which part of the planet are we talking about?

Are you thinking West of us, or... ?

You could argue Kabbalah counts as a Western technique.
Carls BERNER.
Habart.

Everyone has contributed something unique to the mix.
And the Far East didn't just invent everything out of thin air either. Nothing belongs to just one group.
It’s all been built through gathering knowledge over time.
Even if the Far East did lead the way on that front.

Are we seriously talking about Chaldean Kabbalah? Please tell me you don't mean that fake Jewish nonsense cooked up back in the 13th century.

I honestly half-expected you guys to start preaching some Celtic spiritualist garbage at me next!
Or maybe even our dear friend Žika!
Man, what a bunch of Jesam-ti-židovs! Total race traitors!
😁

🙂
If it weren't for the idiots trying to turn reality, the truth, or even God into a joke, this place wouldn't be worth much.

🙂

Enchantress said:...Besides, the psychiatrist claimed that this guy’s mental issues would never have surfaced if he had just reached out to a Christian church.

I'm curious what everyone else thinks about this—how much truth is actually in there?

Oh, there's definitely truth to it! It all comes down to a different kind of collective unconscious. That's actually why Jung wasn't really into Eastern yoga; instead, he suggested techniques that were more aligned with Christian traditions. If Christians haven't come up with anything better by now, that's on them, not Jung.

I mean, let's be real—true, focused prayer is basically just another form of meditation, right? 🙂

Mickey Mouse said:Jung totally missed the mark. If you're part of those yoga crowds, you probably had to be a little messed up first...

He didn't "misunderstand" anything. It’s the people who haven't actually read his work who got it wrong—they're just too quick to try and shove him into some neat little box.
The guy spent his entire life studying the collective unconscious, yet he was rejected most by the very Christians he studied. Then, once he passed away and people finally read his "autobiography" where he opens up about faith... suddenly, he’s their guy. 😉

Must be that yoga thing! 😁

Westerners—basically everyone living in Europe and North America
would probably find a traditional Christian prayer much more relatable than, say, Eastern meditation or yoga. That’s my take on it, anyway. (Or at least, that's how I'm reading the situation. 🙂 )

Simone said:Absolutely. We're talking about a different kind of collective unconscious here. That’s actually why Jung wasn't really a fan of Eastern yoga; instead, he suggested techniques that felt more aligned with Christian traditions. If Christians haven't come up with anything better yet, well, that's on them, not Jung.

Could you expand on that or maybe drop a link regarding the type of yoga that fits better with Christianity?

Besides, deep, focused prayer is essentially just another form of meditation.🙂

I was thinking the exact same thing.

Enchantress said:Can you write more about this (or drop a link) regarding how yoga might fit with Christianity?

Read a little closer. I already covered this:
The fact that Christians haven't come up with anything better yet isn't some Freudian error. 😉

So, which yoga technique would actually align better with Christian values? (I think I finally get what you mean now. 😉 )

Enchantress said:So, which yoga technique would actually be more compatible with Christianity? (I think I finally get what you mean now. 😉 )

Honestly, Christianity is already its own form of yoga...

You go to Mass instead of performing pujas; you take the Eucharist instead of offering prasad...

Prayer, the Rosary, or even Hesychasm—though that’s a dying art these days—serves the exact same purpose as japam or mantras...

What else would there even be to change?

If we really wanted to lean into those Indian methods, perhaps it's just a matter of swapping out the figures. For instance, sitting in the lotus position with your gaze fixed on the bridge of your nose or near your heart center instead of focusing on Vishnu, and rather than chanting specific mantras, you simply repeat a short, rhythmic prayer.

Or maybe it doesn't even need to be that complicated. 😁

Enchantress said:So, which yoga technique would actually be more compatible with Christianity? (I think I finally get what you mean now. 😉 )

Honestly, yoga is just yoga... I don't really see how one style would be "more" Christian than another.

Whether it's West or East, if you ask me, it's all essentially the same thing—just wrapped in different symbols.

P.S. And just for the record, Jung isn't some absolute authority on everything. 😉

Alexander Parker69 said:Prayer, the Rosary, or Hesychasm (though you don't hear much about that anymore)

Hesychasm?

😕