What matters more for spiritual growth?

Patience.

Quincy:

I honestly feel like the most spiritually evolved people—if you ask me what "evolved" even means—are the ones living out in the middle of nowhere. Like, tucked away in nature, far from the city grind and all that civilization noise, but without having to worry about hunting for every meal or starving. The only downside is they might miss out on all the new breakthroughs. Science is our biggest win, but we basically traded our connection to Gaia to get it. The cool thing about right now, though, is that maybe we can actually have both. If things go south soon, I guess this is actually the best time to be alive, looking at it pessimistically. So yeah, worth a shot.

you mean like the wilderness?

finally someone gets me😁 ,
ok, knew she was the most enlightened one all along 😂

Quincy:

Maybe the word "growth" just brings up bad vibes for some people—like consumerism, chasing money just to spend it, or feeling totally lost in the shuffle. I guess I prefer calling it "awakening." It feels more like we have this spirit inside us, like untapped potential. But you gotta nudge it a bit to get it moving. Like, maybe our brain cells or neural pathways *are* that spirit, we just need to activate them. And you do that through experiences, thinking, really looking at things (not just staring, but actually seeing), and just living through stuff. The way I do it probably won't work for everyone, since it's such a personal thing, you know? For me, it's nature plus physical grit. Usually, that means intense outdoor sports out in the mountains or the wilderness. It makes me super aware of how my body actually works. That kind of effort and focus on the environment basically kicks all the useless noise out of my head—work stress, traffic, smog, city crowds, all that junk. Just being out there, often alone and in pretty rough conditions, helps me see the miracle of life. It’s like reconnecting with my roots... I call it "hanging out with Gaia." I feel like we’ve drifted way too far from nature. We’ve just paved over everything. Honestly, I want back out. > from the concrete. The only good thing about living in the city is the access to knowledge, since you need a massive pool of specialists to generate new ideas. Real brainiacs. I think the sweet spot—which is actually doable nowadays—is living outside the city (ideally in a cabin deep in the woods) while staying plugged into the internet. Every day I try to motivate myself to stick with the job that lets me afford that, and to be brave enough to finally take the leap. It’s freaking hard, kinda risky, and the worst part is people look at you like a total weirdo. I totally get what you're saying, blue eyes, it's pretty practical, as you can see

I don't think that's quite it, though, specifically regarding this topic...
you're just one of those people who realized that living in a concrete jungle isn't actually that cozy either. All those "perks" aren't all that great, so you just want a little bit of a controlled retreat, which is fine,
it's a way to clear your head from the daily grind of the corporate world, and that's cool, but it doesn't really have much to do with actual growth or awakening...

If someone just sticks to the basics and tosses out anything meaningful, I guess they just lose interest in the real stuff.
Maybe that kind of person just gets boring, you know? Like, totally checked out mentally. They can't even handle a conversation about anything deeper than surface level without someone else pushing them along. It’s not natural for them, unlike everyone else.

If I ever run into someone like that, I'll have to ask if they're more frustrated with the world or if the world is just fed up with them.

honestly, once you meet someone like that, you'll be crawling back and forth to them on your hands and knees 😁, alone, you won't even "meet" them,
people like that aren't hanging out on social media, TV, or in your fridge 😂

they're just these little Dog sages, or like, total saints—if you can even call them enlightened,
and they don't waste their time on petty gossip, nor do they care that the high-society types think they're a bore,

plus they aren't dependent on anything, obviously. They're just totally self-contained, like an absolute unit.

Jack Harris3 said:

walter veli: Spiritual food is pretty much everything if you want to grow spiritually.

finally, someone actually making sense here😁

nimblecobra79 said:I don't really see it that way.

Science—like, actual science based on facts—really helps people grow, you know? Like, expanding consciousness. By connecting all those dots, we understand how things actually work, which makes us... I don't know, more human? More grounded?

Sure, maybe we lose some stuff along the way—human skills or virtues over the centuries, I guess—but if you look at the big picture, we’re definitely gaining more than we're losing.
.

Honestly, you aren't really gaining anything in terms of awareness,
just piling up random data points,
or stuffing your head with useless trivia that's only good for winning some stupid pub quiz,
is totally wrong.

Quoting:

nimblecobra79, you're totally finishing my thought there. I mean, sure, industrialization basically trashed Earth, but it also gave us such huge leaps in how we actually understand everything—like, spiritual growth and all that. Who am I kidding, Jack Harris3, Fly? You can't deny how much we gained from stuff like astronomy or physics. I'm just saying, it's about finding that sweet spot where both sides meet.

Wait, am I reading a bedtime story here?

Do people seriously believe in some kind of golden age for civilization? Like, that's so naive, lol.

I'm honestly shocked, but... whatever,
I guess it’s probably a good thing we have people like that around,😁

Dragonfly said:I honestly think nothing's gonna change until science actually works for people instead of just chasing corporate profits.

😁 😁 ,
but whose profit we talking about here?

some animal's?

idk, I mean, it's obviously "for" humans, though sometimes things definitely get out of hand😁

Jack Harris3:

dream veli; Middle Way. But honestly, just in name only. Patience, I guess.

😁 ,
let me just say this for basically every single post here:

you little compromiser😁
yeah, you're gonna be waiting a while, maybe.

Betty Cooper43 said:don't waste your precious time on just "small talk."

Why wouldn't you? I mean, small talk is basically how we connect... it's fundamental communication. 😂

Why though? I mean, chatting is just basic communication.

haha,
I guess if someone's getting way too cocky,
like, maybe someone with like 15,000 posts actually is,😁

Naive? Or maybe just acknowledging that we actually know more than ever before. Maya keeps rambling on about lost ancient wisdom and all that. I’ll leave those Daniken myths to the others. Personally, I believe things like microscopes, telescopes, and cyclotrons... are achievements that significantly impact our potential spiritual growth. It's based on a clearer view of reality. I could never agree with people who think spirituality isn't linked to our understanding of the physical world. If there's no connection, then it's just pure fantasy. I have no interest in that.

As for the wilderness or some "controlled retreat"—I would never renounce knowledge and technology. I'm never going back to the Stone Age, not even for you, Betty Cooper43. A Stone Age human was just a slightly more advanced animal. Today's human is far more evolved, even if we are currently completely lost in this consumerist civilization. We aren't in a Golden Age right now, not for the human race as a whole (though it might be for individuals who manage a controlled withdrawal 😉), but perhaps it will come if we wise up. Because if we don't, we won't exist at all. I'm certain it will happen, though, because I'm an optimist. Why am I an optimist? Because if we fail, it doesn't matter to me; but if I believe I can help, even in my microscopic way... At least on the level of a collective positive consciousness 😉

haha,
had a similar chat with the little dragon once,
supposedly cyclotrons and microscopes help you grow spiritually?
well, I guess that's why people say I'm a bit slow;
since I don't own a microscope, it all makes sense now, finally😁

the whole damn civilization has basically just worked toward letting as many Homo sapiens multiply as possible, while a tiny handful live better than everyone else and hoard power just to crush the rest of them...
so yeah, that's pretty much it,

and how much do we actually know? what's the actual benefit for an individual's spiritual growth? God knows. You can read tons of books written by random hacks who are still desperately hunting for truths or connections to the past, but when it comes to true personal insight into reality, there's almost zero—sorry, scratch that, almost nothing at all.

A guy from the Stone Age is the exact same human as someone in the Information Age,
except back then, he was less hypocritical; he'd face his enemy eye-to-eye and settle things with brute force to see who was stronger. Nowadays, people do the same thing, just more sophisticated and polite, sitting behind a PC screen.

there are 6 billion humans out there, and most are living in worse material conditions than they did in the Stone Age,
so what are we even talking about here, really?

PS
back in the Stone Age, good was just plain good😁

Betty Cooper43 said:Finally—an actual smart take.😁

Thanks. Honestly, I’ve noticed people in this thread trying to grab the whole pot of chili and all the bacon at once without any patience—it's a bit much.
Is being impossible to understand what makes someone wise? Not really.

If you're talking in riddles and nobody gets you, maybe you're actually enlightened... or maybe you're just crazy. People tend to trip over that distinction.

So, is this thread about spiritual growth from books, or from actually living life?

Betty Cooper43, you’re always on about theorizing and overanalyzing. Reading books, reciting "facts." As if any of that matters for spiritual growth. And you still act all condescending, saying things like, "I'm just too dim because I don't have a microscope 😉." You don't see the connection?
The connection happens when you actually comprehend and internalize what you've read and memorized. When your eyes finally open to where you live, what keeps you anchored to this planet, the reality of your life from a biochemical standpoint, and the actual mechanics behind your own thoughts. That is when you start grasping—as close to the truth as anyone can currently get, and as close as humanity ever will—who you are and what you truly are. On actual, solid ground. The closest thing to the truth possible. If you want to base your spirit on the Bible or pure fantasy without any constraints, be my guest. The "Stone Age" approach has served plenty of people well enough

dustyscout53 said:Is this thread actually about growing spiritually through reading books, or is it more about what we've lived through?

For me, it’s always been built on the foundation of Alan Ford. 😁

Stop acting like children. All you do is throw out emojis—Jack Harris3, what are you, twenty? You just nitpick and tear things down instead of maintaining a positive outlook. Tell us what actually works FOR you, rather than just listing everything that isn't a tool for spiritual growth. Or maybe this kind of growth feels too much like work, so you won't even try to practice it. Are you really only looking for the downsides in everything? Haven't you heard of an opportunist’s approach? Take what serves you and leave the rest...

What actually matters when it comes to spiritual growth—if "growth" is even the right word here.
First off, you’ve gotta actually want it.
Also, what’s the deal with this phrase: is it the power of thought or the power of feeling? I don't quite get it—is that some line from a watchtower or something?
I mean, why all these super deep questions?
Can you even separate thoughts from feelings during spiritual development? Or is one always chasing the other? That's a new one for me.
Like what that Chinese man says: happiness is everywhere, you just have to pull it out. But what kind of tools are you gonna use to do that? What tool helps with spiritual insight? Is it better to use a shovel or a pickaxe?
Honestly, I’m just lost on what kind of spiritual growth we’re even talking about here. Are we talking about the growth itself, or just the tools used to get there?
You could achieve spiritual growth just by running errands at Target, or you could read every single book ever written and still not get anywhere.

And why bring civilization into this? What does that have to do with being spiritual? Are you guys really trying to explain spirituality through the lens of modern civilization?

The thing that's really tripping me up is... what the hell are we even debating here? 😁 😁 😁

Spiritual growth needs spiritual food—there you go. 😁 😁

Betty Cooper43, you're always on about all this theorizing and nitpicking. Like, reading books and banging on about "facts." And how does any of that even matter for spiritual growth? Plus, you're acting all high and mighty with that "I'm just dumb because I don't have a microscope" vibe. You seriously don't get the connection?

😁 😁

haha,
look at me, I'm so clueless,
and yet I'm still bold enough to act superior,

and hey, maybe I'm lying too;

I actually *do* have a microscope 😂

PS
tomorrow I'll get serious,
don't really have the time for this today,
but seriously
😁

Vorkosigan said:(Jack Harris3, you got twenty bucks?)

I’m broke, but hey, you’ve clearly got some cash on you. 😂

As for the rest, Walter already gave you an answer.
I'm moving on to Zen, specifically looking at those Chinese philosophies... feels like there might actually be some truth to it all after all... 😂

Wait, what was it you asked? What tool am I using? Budin. 😁
Just gonna sit here under a tree and wait for things to ripen...