The birth of a soul

In your opinion, when does a person actually "receive" a soul?

I know theologians are still fighting over this one, but I’m curious to hear what you all think.
Does it happen at the moment of conception?
Or is it something else entirely?

I’m asking because I recently came across an incredibly interesting, scientifically proven fact. It doesn't necessarily pinpoint the exact moment a soul is born, but it touches on something related...
But I'll save that for later.

Just looking for some initial thoughts...

I can't say for certain, but I’ve always leaned toward the idea that as a child conceived via IVF develops physically, their soul grows in tandem. My hope is that if a miscarriage occurs, the soul simply "resets," essentially waiting for another chance at life. That’s the version of reality I’d prefer to believe in 🙂

What kind of fact did you come across?

They can go ahead and argue all they want. It’s their loss, really. At the end of the day, a person doesn't know it, and honestly? They don't even need to.

Sandra Palmer10 said:They can spin their tales all they want. Most people don't know the truth, nor do they really need to.

Ouch. That was a bit chilly...
But maybe there’s a kernel of truth in that coldness? 😉

Alexander Watson said:Maybe there’s some truth to it, even if it is freezing out... 😉

Exactly. 😁

But I think there’s an even bigger question at play here... maybe you could start a whole new thread about it, hmm?

"How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"

I don't think anyone’s ever actually settled that one... 😁

northernfalcon9 said:I can't say for certain, but I suspect that as an IVF baby develops, the soul grows proportionally with them. If a miscarriage occurs, perhaps the soul simply "resets"—waiting for the next opportunity. That’s certainly the version I’d prefer to believe.🙂

That idea of a "reset" actually appeals to me..
I'll admit, this is the first time I've encountered such a theory, but honestly, I was hoping to hear some different perspectives..
Even if they are just personal theories..

It also ties back to a specific fact.

I recently learned about medical studies showing how many women experience a miscarriage without even realizing they were pregnant, especially in those very early stages.
Given that insight, if we follow the theological line that the soul is formed at the exact moment of conception, we arrive at a rather blunt conclusion.
There would be a massive number of stillborn souls.
Furthermore, our faith teaches us that a young child who dies remains innocent and sinless, going straight to Heaven..
Which leads to the obvious deduction: Heaven must be absolutely packed with children..

And finally, if we consider the biological reality that more girls are born than boys, we conclude that Heaven is overflowing with little girls...

Frankly, considering all of this, I find it quite difficult to believe the soul manifests the instant an egg is fertilized...

Jack Harris3 said:"How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"

I don't think anyone has ever cracked that one... 😁

Honestly, I haven't a clue...
But then again, your little riddle doesn't exactly solve the issue of abortion or killing an unborn child, does it?😢

Because when does a child actually become a child?
Though, I suppose if we settle the angel debate first, this might all just sort itself out..?

Alexander Watson said:So, when does a child actually become a child?

Since I’m feeling generous today, I’ll let him become a child once he "comes to life."😁
I have this nagging feeling I read somewhere that even Adam "came to life" only after God breathed his soul into him... 😁

The idea of a child seems fine to me. I could just be a cynic and argue they don't count until they're born and capable of living on their own, but still... 😁

Are we moving on to angels now? 😂

Whether abortion is considered a crime from the moment of conception or not...
Just wanted to toss my two cents in there, even though I don't think that's actually what you're getting at, right?

I’ve always found it fascinating how the Quran says that if you take one life, it’s like you’ve killed the entire world. Think about it. All of humanity traces back to just one man and one woman. So, if someone ends a single life, they’re essentially wiping out everyone that person would have ever had—maybe even entire future generations...

Alexander Watson said:Because when does a child actually become a child?
But then again, maybe if we just sort out this whole angel situation first, the answer will just sort itself out, won't it?

What is the actual question here, though? Is it about when a soul is born, whether a soul even exists in that sense, or is it when a child truly becomes a child—when they receive life, or perhaps when they receive a soul?

So, I came across some medical research showing that a massive number of women experience miscarriages without ever even realizing they were pregnant in those very early stages.

Male. 🙄 🙄 😁😁

And finally, if we look at the natural law suggesting more girls are born than boys, one might conclude that heaven is absolutely overflowing with girls...

😱
In that case, I'm definitely not going there. 😱
😁😁

Roger Hall15 said:What’s the actual question here? Does the soul arrive when a person is born, when they become a child, when life begins, or when they receive their soul?

Let’s not overcomplicate things...
My question is simply this: when is the soul "breathed in"?
Surely not at eleven years old, for heaven's sake...

If my memory serves me correctly, I recall reading somewhere that a child receives their soul during the third or fourth month of gestation. This interpretation seems to be based on this particular hadith from Allah's messenger:

Abdullah sin Mes tells us: "The Messenger of Allah—who speaks only the truth and is worthy of all trust—said: 'The formation of a human being in his mother's womb lasts forty days, followed by an equal period of time as an "'alaka," then another equal period as a "mudgha," after which Allah, may He be glorified, sends an angel to breathe the soul into him;......

Alexander Watson said:When does a soul actually get "breathed" into existence?

I suspect it happens when the soul finally finds its child, at which point all that's left is the waiting game.
It isn't about being born, per se, but rather being created.
There’s this old occult concept—and bear with me on the wording here,🙄 because nothing else feels quite right—that suggests the child is actually the one choosing the parents.
So, really, the soul makes its selection, and we are simply the ones chosen before everything even begins.

It’s actually fairly common for parents to feel that connection deep down with an unborn baby. That sense that what’s growing inside a mother😁 is far more than just some random collection of cells.

I was just sitting here wondering—and look, I’m a complete novice when it comes to this stuff—but what does anyone actually mean when they talk about the "soul"?
😕

So, I was digging into some medical research recently, and get this: it turns out a massive number of women experience miscarriages without even realizing they were pregnant in those super early stages. It’s wild. Now, if you take that data and run it through the lens of traditional theological ideology—you know, the idea that the soul is formed at the exact moment of conception—then the math leads us to one incredibly simple, albeit heavy, conclusion. We are talking about a HUGE number of deceased children. Furthermore, most faiths teach us that an innocent child who passes away, completely pure and without sin, goes straight to heaven. Following that logic, it stands to reason that heaven is absolutely PACKED with kids.

Just a little layman's observation here

Unborn and unbaptized children don't go to heaven; they go to limbo.

Alexander Watson said:[B

So, I actually dug into some medical research recently, and it turns out there's a massive number of women who experience miscarriages without even realizing they were pregnant in those very early stages.

We're talking about a huge amount of stillborn babies.
And hey, if we look at the natural laws—you know, how more girls are born than boys—it makes you think that heaven might just be overflowing with female children...

Honestly, seeing all this, it’s getting harder for me to believe that a soul is formed the very instant an egg is fertilized... [/B]

Nature has its own way of picking which being gets to be born. It works through trial and error, essentially weeding out anything that isn't quite right to keep growing.
It selects the perfect moment and the perfect conditions for every single child to be conceived.
But man, for every one baby that makes it here, who knows how many failed attempts happened behind the scenes?

That’s why these miscarriages (if that's even what they are) are totally normal. For reasons we can't fully grasp, the body simply rejects the embryo. It happens so early on that most people don't even notice.
To ensure a child actually survives the full nine-month term, there's this built-in biological mechanism that filters things out, preventing certain embryos from developing further.

I truly believe a soul enters a body with its own specific blueprint, and that soul, along with its host body, finds its way to the right parents at just the right time.
As for when that happens? I couldn't tell you! Some people say it's when a mother decides to conceive, regardless of whether she was planning to or not... but a soul enters a body so it can best fulfill the purpose it was created for.

crimsonbison10 said:I just wanted to ask—as a complete layman—what does one actually mean when they talk about the "soul"?
😕

ehe, it depends on who you ask! Personally, I view the "soul" as the philosophical essence of that vital force which animates us. My take on the definition is that every single organism—meaning any object independently driven by that life force—possesses a soul; even bacteria, if you think about it. In my view, once a child evolves past being just a collection of cells, that’s when they acquire a soul.

wearyowl29 said:The soul arrives with its own pre-set blueprint into a designated body. That body—and the soul breathing life within it—eventually settles into a specific middle ground through certain parents.

I was hoping we could dive a bit deeper here... maybe shed some light on this whole "pre-set program" and the idea of a "designated body."

________________

Look, I’m completely in the dark here, so I figured I'd just ask.

hollowviper72 said:ehe, I guess you could say that. When I talk about the "soul," I’m referring to that philosophical essence—the vital force that keeps us moving. My take is that every single organism, basically any object animated by that spark of life, possesses a soul. Even bacteria, for all they're worth. In my view, once a child transcends being just a collection of cells, that's when the soul arrives.

thanks. but why the emphasis on philosophical?🙂

Does a child's soul grow proportionally (if you can even put a measurement on something like that) alongside their physical body? Does the soul undergo some kind of evolution?

And what exactly is the spirit?

👋

crimsonbison10 said:As someone who's completely out of my depth here, I just wanted to ask: what does everyone actually mean when they talk about the "soul"?
😕

👍 👍 👍

It’s fascinating how this—arguably the only question that actually matters—is being met with total silence. 😉