Consciousness

Exactly... and there’s one more thing. In my view, meditation is neither easy nor straightforward. Telling someone it's simple is like me telling you that running a marathon is a breeze... you just have to clear 26 miles miles and you're done.

Ryan Wilson2:

Look... I don't entirely agree with that saying—I think it's only half true. Honestly, I feel like finding a student is just as much of a struggle for the teacher, mostly because everyone seems to be lazy, dim-witted, or just looking for shortcuts to get what they want—usually power, sex, or cash.

First off, a teacher isn't out there hunting for students. Those "students" you're describing? They’ll happily settle for any one of those Llewellyn books that has some catchy slogan about "a powerful way to money, love, and power" plastered across the back in bold letters. Secondly—and this is key—a teacher doesn't even have to be a person. And thirdly, a true teacher doesn't actually give "lessons," because, as I've said before, there aren't really lessons here. We aren't memorizing diagrams or meditation schematics; nobody can draw a blueprint of the soul. That’s why a teacher doesn't lecture—they radiate. A teacher leads by the sheer example of their own existence, not through spoken words. And a student can only follow that lead once they are actually ready to notice it.

Oh, and... one more thing... personally, I don't think meditation is easy or simple at all. Telling me it's easy feels like telling someone a marathon is easy... you just have to run 26 miles and you're done.

Well, everyone experiences meditation differently. For me, it's straightforward. I can clear my mind even on a bus packed with screaming kids if I have to. Maybe you just have a different approach, or perhaps you're trying to push further than you're currently capable of. And maybe it is because you get tricked into drugs, alcohol and sex with women, mkay? 😉 😛

hollowviper72 said:Ryan Wilson2:

First off, let’s get one thing straight: a teacher doesn't go out looking for a student.

Secondly, I suggest you actually read the very next sentence I wrote, unless you decided to just skip over it entirely:

'...the student appears only when the teacher is ready.'

hollowviper72 said:Look, everyone experiences meditation differently. For me, it's simple. I can empty my mind even on a crowded bus full of teenagers. Maybe you just have a different approach, or perhaps you're trying to push further than your current capacity allows. And maybe it is because you get tricked into drugs, alcohol and sex with women, mkay? 😉 😛

As far as I am concerned... meditation has nothing to do with "emptying" the mind; true meditation is the intense concentration on a single thought.

Furthermore, based strictly on the quality of your posts, I highly doubt you are advanced enough to actually empty your mind on a bus full of kids. Perhaps you can daydream, certainly—but emptying the mind? Hardly.

hollowviper72 said:And maybe it is because you get tricked into drugs, alcohol and sex with women, mkay? 😉 😛

If anyone actually intends to pursue anything "spiritual," they first need to test their own limits. I personally have no fear of having a few extra beers, smoking some weed, or losing myself in the arms of beautiful women, because for the most part, I am fully capable of controlling my reactions to all of it. This stands in stark contrast to those self-righteous purists who flee from these experiences simply because they lack the willpower to master them.

Ryan Wilson2:

Also, take another look at that next sentence I wrote—I think you might have accidentally skipped over it: "...the student appears only when the teacher is ready."

I’ve gone through everything here—really, I have. My issue with that specific sentence is that it hinges on the assumption that a teacher actually possesses some sort of active interest in instructing their students. Personally, I’ve always felt that spiritual teachers don't truly "teach" anything at all—but, then again, I’ve already voiced my thoughts on that. Beyond that, the statement itself doesn't hold much water; it feels like one of those clever inversions that sounds deep and profound right up until you turn it over in your head about fifteen times and realize there's nothing actually there. 😛

From what I gather—and please, correct me if I'm wrong here—meditation isn't actually about "emptying" your mind. That’s such a common misconception, isn't it? In my view, true meditation is more about intense, singular concentration—just focusing your entire attention on one specific thought or anchor.

The meditation technique I personally lean into always starts with centering the mind. For me, that means essentially cutting off the stream of consciousness—putting the brain into a sort of "idle" mode. Now, you could probably achieve something similar by hyper-focusing on a single thought, but I’ve always preferred the path of non-thought. It’s more like a sort of mental white noise—sort of like when you’re tuning an old radio and you just get that static from a station that doesn't exist. As I see it, meditation is really about perceiving the Totality. Since the Totality is far too massive to be captured by any single word or concept, it can only truly be grasped through this meditative state. Focusing on one specific thought might allow you to glimpse a tiny fragment of that whole, but personally? I much prefer the approach of walking straight through the wall.

Personally, looking back at everything you’ve posted, I have to say—I don't think you're quite advanced enough to pull off that "mind-emptying" trick in a bus full of kids. I mean, sure, maybe you can daydream—we all do that—but actually clearing your head like that? I just don't see it happening for you.

Why not? Honestly, my only real concern would be if those kids started throwing things at you or constantly bumping into you—that’s where I’d draw the line. As for the noise? That’s the least of it. To me, it’s all just background noise that you can easily tune out. I’ve actually found that I can clear my head almost instantly—in fact, during high-stress situations, I find that being able to just empty my mind like that is exactly what helps a person maintain their composure.

If anyone actually wants to pursue a "spiritual" path, they need to start by testing their own limits first. Personally, I’m not afraid to have a few extra beers, roll up some weed, or lose myself in the arms of beautiful women—mostly because I can actually stay in control of my reactions when things get wild. It’s a far cry from those self-righteous types who run away from everything just because they lack the willpower to handle it.

Look, Grumpel—honestly, take a breath! It was just a joke! 🙂 Wait, you’ve seriously never seen South Park: BL & ? Honestly, I can't believe that—but no, actually, that whole thing is straight out of that cartoon!

Walk me through your routine, step by step. Where did you even stumble upon this method? Did you actually engineer it yourself from scratch, as you claimed earlier?

Ryan Wilson2 said:To really expand on that... a student only shows up once the teacher is truly ready.

🙂 I'm right there with you.

hollowviper72 said:Furthermore, that sentence doesn't actually carry much weight; it's just one of those clever inversions that sounds profound until you turn it over in your mind about fifteen times... 😛

I remember thinking a similar phrase sounded quite deep—that a teacher appears only when the student is ready... until I applied a modicum of logic and realized it was nothing more than a half-baked, hollow sentiment. After all, a teacher cannot exist without a student.
There is your sentence; feel free to spin it around in your head for a while.😉

hollowviper72 said:The meditation technique I employ begins with centering the mind. This is achieved by interrupting the stream of thought—specifically, by placing the mind into "idle mode." Focusing on a single thought likely yields a similar result, but I prefer non-thought, a sort of "mental static," akin to tuning a radio to a dead station. As far as I am aware, meditation is the contemplation of Totality. Since Totality is far too vast to be captured by a single word or thought, it can only be perceived in its entirety through meditation. Perhaps focusing on a single thought allows one to perceive the whole through a single segment, but I would rather run headfirst into a wall.

In that case, why don't you attempt to provide even a rudimentary explanation of this sense of "Totality" you claim to experience when you silence the mind?

hollowviper72 said:Why not? My only concern would be if those kids started throwing things at me or constantly bumping into me.

Oh, certainly... and my only problem with running marathons is that I can't seem to finish them.
A fundamental prerequisite for any form of meditation is the "mastery" of the body and its incessant, distracting signals.

hollowviper72 said:First off, a teacher isn't out there hunting for students.

Are you actually sure about that? Honestly, I must have been drunk every single time I read those accounts of certain teachers practically groveling before their actual students—those "spiritual sons"—whom they would gladly hand everything they own to, unlike this greedy mob that refuses to accept anything beyond blessings, healings, passing the buck, and spiritual ego-tripping and sheer stupidity.

Ryan Wilson2 said:Hold on a second... either everyone is a teacher, or no one is. You have to pick a side. 😉

I don't see what the confusion is. 😕
I know plenty of teachers out there, but since I'm not looking to follow anyone right now, I don't actually need a teacher. 😉

Ryan Wilson2 said:Actually, my only issue with running a marathon is that I can't actually finish one.
The absolute baseline requirement for any meaningful meditation is "mastering" the physical body and silencing its tedious little signals.

Can I wander back toward Ramakrishna for a moment? 🎉 😁

He used to recount this story—or perhaps it was one of his disciples recounting it—about a time when his students were out meditating. A swarm of mosquitoes descended upon them, and everyone scrambled away except for Naren (the future Vivekanand). He described being literally blanketed in mosquitoes, like he was wearing a shroud, yet he didn't notice them at all.

Now, that is what actual meditation looks like. Until the mind is completely stilled, focused, and singular, calling it "meditation" is just a formal label; prior to that, it would more accurately be categorized as dhyana (concentration). Actually, even that isn't quite right, because true concentration implies a rock-solid singularity of purpose—this was likely just an attempt at concentration. In those old texts, meditation is frequently compared to the steady pouring of oil (a perfectly balanced stream) or the flame of a candle in a room without a draft, just to give you a sense of the intended state. When the mind is truly focused, directed, and entirely oblivious to its surroundings—free from stray thoughts, sensations, or external stimuli—that is the goal. That is merely one step on the ladder toward samadhi in the classical breakdown, and it certainly isn't some easy feat. The fact that "meditation" has become a catch-all term for every little breathing exercise doesn't mean it has anything to do with true dhyana.

Ryan Wilson2:

Quote:>

I used to think that line about the teacher arriving when the student is ready was pretty profound... until I applied a little logic and realized it’s actually quite a hollow, half-baked idea. I mean, let's be real—a teacher isn't even a teacher without a student.

Exactly! See, the issue is that it isn't even the right way to phrase it. 🙂The correct version uses the verb "to appear," rather than "to come." There is a massive distinction there. I have to emphasize again that a teacher doesn't necessarily have to be a human being; they can be any segment of the Totality. The thing is, the teacher exists as a principle, not just an individual. The fundamental difference between a principle and an individual is that a principle teaches simply by existing—it provides an existential example—whereas an individual often comes with their own personal agenda.
Consequently, the student simply notices (the principle) the teacher within things, phenomena, and even people that they weren't capable of perceiving in that way before. Because they weren't ready. You get what I mean?

Well then, at least try to give me a rough explanation of that sense of Totality you get when you finally quiet the mind.

Look, my only problem is that this sensation is—as I mentioned earlier—far too vast for conventional words. I can mention certain feelings... the feeling of the planet beneath my feet. The weight of the clouds. The current of consciousness from billions of living beings all around us. The timelessness of the moment... and so on. But those are just words; they can't convey the essence of the thing. For someone else to grasp the essence, they have to experience it themselves. I once tried to explain to a friend what it feels like to let your consciousness flow through a tree. I didn't succeed while standing face-to-face with a particularly magnificent oak, so I highly doubt I'd have more luck doing it over the internet... 🙂

Fair point... I guess my only problem with running marathons is that I can't actually run them.

Nobody is saying meditation is a finished task accomplished in a single afternoon. On the contrary, as a person grows into the technique, their abilities increase—much like physical training. But the principle remains the same. Now, obviously, I am nowhere near the level of concentration or depth achieved by people who have been practicing this much longer than I have. But I *do* know that I can shut out the necessary elements of noise and chaos to reach a meditative state on a bus full of screaming kids. Though, I absolutely cannot stand mosquitoes. That's why a conscientious spiritual leader should always carry a supply of Autan on them. :P

Alexander Parker69:

Are you sure about that? Honestly, I must have been drunk every time I read stories about how certain teachers would literally babble nonsense to their actual students—their "spiritual sons"—who could have had everything they owned, yet refused to take this crowd of greedy people looking for blessings, healings, passing off responsibility, spiritual inflation, and general buffoonery.

The desire to pass on knowledge is as natural to humans as the drive to have children. However, that desire has less to do with spiritual teaching and more with a simple attempt to secure a kind of quasi-immortality—ensuring our work is passed down to younger generations so that our knowledge, which largely constitutes what we call the "self," won't vanish forever when our bodies eventually fail us. In the pursuit of a "true student," there is also the factor of wanting people who will truly understand us. One person who understands us to the core is worth more than legions of people who just flatter us, or simply nod along while simultaneously translating everything we say into whatever they want to hear.

A few times now, people have actually approached me asking if I could mentor them or teach them certain things. But—to be perfectly honest—it’s not just that I don't feel ready to step into a formal teaching role; I've realized that I don't even really want students. What I'm actually looking for are companions—people I can walk alongside, sharing experiences and perspectives as we go. After all, these paths are incredibly solitary by nature. Everyone has their own unique journey to navigate, and I've never been much of a believer in following a pre-packaged caravan.

These little pamphlets constantly compare meditation to pouring oil—you know, that perfectly steady stream—or perhaps the flame of a candle sitting in a room where the air is completely still. It’s their way of trying to paint a picture of what the state should actually feel like.

I assume you're reading from our usual crowd of authors, 🙂
.
hollowviper72

How long have you been practicing, and how much time do you put in daily?

hollowviper72 said:The meditation technique I go by starts with centering the mind. You get there by cutting off the constant stream of thoughts—basically putting your brain into "idle mode."

That’s exactly how I approach it, too. I'm curious, though... how much time do you usually spend meditating each day?

Casey Palmer5

I was wondering how much time you actually spend meditating on a daily basis—since we’re all talking about it anyway—and... what’s your actual technique?

p.s.
(I don't bother with any of that mind-centering stuff; instead, I focus on centering within the heart😁, where the mind starts creating these little gaps, or what someone once called "idle gear," which ultimately leads to some pretty solid insights into whatever you're searching for, or it just leaves you feeling relaxed, clear-headed, and warm))

Karen Sanchez19 said:hollowviper72

Why is it impossible to find any actual Transcendental Meditation techniques anywhere—and do written instructions even exist? I suspect... that the teacher plays a massive role in this process...

😁

One doctrine of Mahesh's masters suggests that every Westerner should have their own guru—someone they pay ten percent of their monthly income to in exchange for an "initiation"... which essentially just covers the cost of a personalized mantra and a private lesson on how to meditate...

The science behind TM benefits can actually be explained by entering what’s known as an alpha state of consciousness—essentially a way to "rest while staying awake"... One prerequisite, which someone else here already touched upon, is the reduction of thought—ideally reaching that point where you aren't thinking about anything at all...

Even Fromm pointed out that it’s actually the best remedy for stress...
In the books regarding TM, however—you see—there is all this praise for the volume itself, and of course the mantra and specific techniques... but you really do need a guru...

When it comes to astral projection, you can find plenty of material in works by Crowley or Dion Fortune—and others like them... But they seem to suggest that for a "true" astral experience, one would actually need to be clinically dead "here" just to wander "there"... Otherwise, it’s nothing more than a visualization exercise. Honestly, looking back, both Crowley and Fortune feel a bit unserious to me nowadays...

Honestly, TM is such a solid remedy for stress—just fifteen minutes in the morning and again at night... It’s tough to get moving at first, though—you might find yourself getting frustrated when you just can't seem to quiet that constant mental chatter...

Autogenic training definitely leads to that relaxed state—but there’s a catch—after a while, you can become resistant to those mental images, like feelings of lightness or airy sensations, until they just stop working for you...

I settle into a comfortable position—sometimes cross-legged, sometimes something else, though I don't think the exact pose matters much—close my eyes, and... just tune out the rest of the world. I slip into that famous "empty void," as hollowviper72 calls it, which is honestly impossible to put into words.

How much time do I spend on it daily? Over the last decade of practicing meditation, it’s definitely shifted (in the beginning, I could only manage short bursts). These days, I usually aim for about half an hour. I can go longer if I need to, depending on how life is treating me. I also don't really stick to a strict schedule or a specific time of day.

It’s similar with my practice in general; some days I feel more drawn to AT, and other days I just want to meditate. I don't typically do both in the same day.
Afterward, I feel like I’ve had the best sleep of my life... my mind feels completely rested and clear.

What about you?

What about you?

I usually make sure I’m sitting perfectly upright, 😁keeping my spine straight—because honestly, how could anyone even imagine trying to meditate in a recliner?—with my right palm resting on my left, fingers joined, and my hands resting right in my lap over my crossed legs.
Yeah, I just close my eyes and lock onto my heartbeat, following that rhythm until the world around me just fades away, staying there until I feel this warmth starting to spread through my solar plexus and eventually my entire body, or at least until my legs start falling asleep. 😁(And then I have to get up and waddle around like a penguin for a bit.)
Doing it for half an hour would be way too long for me, even though I do feel like I’ve just stepped out of the most incredibly refreshing shower afterward; usually, I just stick to ten or fifteen minutes, mostly first thing in the morning.

John Walker74 said:And what about you?

I usually make sure to sit properly—very disciplined—😁 though I always keep my spine straight (honestly, I can't even imagine trying to meditate in an armchair)—with my right palm resting over my left...

That is how a Lefty should handle it. 😉 😁

Flemming said:That’s exactly how a leftist should operate. 😉 😁

Oh please, do I really look like some radical leftist to you?

I'm more of a right-winger, buddy—if you can call it that—since I use my right hand to grab what I want and my left to take what's mine.😁(desnim uzimam, lijevom primam😉)