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Freezing cold

Started by Bradley Fisher20 · · 👁 7 views · 64 replies

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Participants Bradley Fisher20Harold James9Rachel BishopJohn Walker74Henry Barrett11Ryan RuizPaul Campbell3Kenneth Hill37blueharbor42Adustywolf32Andrew Alvarez6hiddenviper9Andrew HernandezAlexander Hallswiftcobra15jadetinker85Nancy Chase2granitetrucker3
A Anonymous Veteran
3.6K messages
joined May 2005
#21 ·
little dragon says
Secondly, I don't think hate is actually the opposite of love.

Thirdly, hate usually crops up when we feel like our lives are being dictated by everyone else. It happens when we feel trapped, rigid, and like we’ve lost our ability to make our own choices. See, any negative emotion—hate included—actually carries a seed of liberation within it.
The thing about emotions, though, is that they are exactly what they claim to be: emotions. They're irrational, instinctive reactions triggered by whatever is happening around us. And honestly? You have to let them out. If you're angry, be angry! Go smash some plates and glasses if you have to. But once the dust settles, sit down and actually figure out why you were so pissed off in the first place. That way, you don't lose your moral compass or your freedom of choice by letting everything sink into pure hatred.

...The goal isn't to suppress or control your emotions, but to control your actions.

If you're mad about something, fine. Go punch a pillow or something, just don't go out and take it out on your neighbor.

As far as I'm concerned, hate is just a wasted emotion.
Bradley Fisher20 Bradley Fisher20 Active MemberOP
142 messages
joined May 2005
#22 ·
Dragonfly said:Hate?
Like, a mild version of hate would be: I love eating chocolate, but I absolutely loathe spinach puffs. Okay, if someone serves me those damn spinach puffs and forces me to eat them, I’m gonna get pissed at them. If they lock me in a basement and feed me nothing but spinach puffs every single day, I might actually start hating them😁.

Hmm. Now I'm just confused. If love is unconditional acceptance, then maybe hate is just unconditional non-acceptance?

However, (answering the other question), it could happen that I suddenly discover the beauty of the taste of spinach puffs. Then hate turns into affection—not just toward the puffs, but toward the person who unconsciously or consciously forced me to love those freaking spinach puffs, making me realize everything in life is relative.😁 Or I could just stop eating and starve to death, but I guess that’s just a form of hating myself, right...😁

And once you accept it, you start loving it 🙂.

bipolar says
I wonder, I really wonder... isn't the mechanism you're describing just that—a mechanism? One that can work through all sorts of different ways of showing various shades of feeling, basically camouflaging the Truth which is the hardest thing to reach. Maybe hate is something else entirely.

Hmm, hate is a feeling. You could look at that feeling as a mechanism to escape reality. But then again...

That's why I can love without hating.

Heh. A mirror of the universe. One way to explain it. Satisfying enough 🙂.

Dada says
yeah, and hate can have positive consequences too. Just like love can have negative ones. Because on their own, they're just pure abstractions, and people or circumstances make them what they are (again, it's just human perception and reacting to how things are). (God, I can't get rid of this damn relativity aaaaaaaa)

Dada, Dada. You're just missing the absolute 🙂.
zubatac said
Hate and love are linked by an intermediate phase, and that's obsession. It can happen under certain circumstances that love, even when it's sincere and real, turns into obsession. It happens all the time in human relationships.

Eeeeee. Finally getting some 🙂 RL. I hate it, honestly, because then I have to actually get stuff done. Isn't that whole gap between real love, obsession, and pure hatred just down to people being too delusional? And their refusal to face the Truth? BTW, so many people just deny the Truth exists, claiming everything is a lie or that there's no such thing... they just build these houses of cards and then wonder why they're so fragile. It’s got nothing to do with actual love, which—as an idea—is basically just pure Truth. So, from what I see, real love, that unconditional kind of acceptance, can't really turn into hate. But fulfillment built on illusions? Yeah, that definitely turns into hate. Ufffff, man, these new concepts and ideas... we should probably move this over to the wiki 🙂.
A Anonymous Veteran
3.6K messages
joined May 2005
#23 ·
Quincy:
So, what I see here is that true love—the kind based on unconditional acceptance—can't coexist with coldness. But if you're just trying to fulfill someone based on an obsession? Yeah, that can definitely thrive in a frozen environment.
👍 🙏 🙏 🙏 That's it!

To me, real love is the only kind that actually deserves the title. Everything else is just an "obsession with satisfying emotional needs," which is something else entirely... and those kinds of things are always prone to shifting in every direction imaginable.
Andrew Alvarez6 Andrew Alvarez6 Newcomer
1 message
joined Jul 2003
#24 ·
I was actually supposed to write something deep and philosophical here. But honestly, I just got back from grabbing a coffee outside about half an hour ago, where it was—practically speaking, not philosophically—way more pleasant. 🙂
Now... since I was sitting there on that patio enjoying a nice little breeze while letting my thoughts wander, I’m feeling pretty lazy about having to sit here and ponder life's mysteries. It's stifling in this room without any airflow; I just checked (just to be sure), and it's a sweltering 100 degrees in the shade. And now I have to think, too? 😠

So, you're supposed to notice the difference between these two smiley faces and tell me how you really feel:

I love it... when things are comfortable.
I hate it... when it's this hot.

Then again, I think I heard someone say once—though it wasn't specified here—that there's a very thin line between Love and Hate.

But you guys probably already know all about that, right?

Which means, for me, the boundary is simply whether or not there's a
breeze.

As for using a fan... well, that's a different story altogether. That's just practical matters. 😁

If I actually had to cast a vote for Love or Hate... well, it's pretty obvious, isn't it? 🙂
Rachel Bishop Rachel Bishop Active Member
80 messages
joined Jul 2003
#25 ·
Bradley Fisher20:

Quincy:
Listen, Rachel Bishop, are emptiness and love actually the same thing? I’m asking seriously. Since your philosophical stance seems coherent enough, I’ll start a thread to prove it. Or maybe you can prove me wrong. Everything you say boils down to everything being one and love being everything. That's fine, but can you actually go deeper than that?
It isn't about what I can do; it's about what you can do.
And if you don't even know how to answer your own questions... there's no point expecting others to provide answers and then being dissatisfied when they don't.

What emptiness, Bradley Fisher? What emptiness are we even talking about?
You're mixing apples and oranges, probably because you took one too many hits to the head.
If you ask me, everything is just emptiness... but what if that isn't enough for you? Who gets the blame? Me, because I "can't go further"?
Good grief... Bradley Fisher... stop confusing your own desires with what other people are capable of.

It's clear you aren't happy with my way of being, but I can't help you there. I'm not here to satisfy you, you know what I mean? Figure it out yourself.

So, you'll open a thread to prove my philosophy is useless?

If you truly have nothing better to do with your life and this is enough to keep you occupied... be my guest.👍
Henry Barrett11 Henry Barrett11 Member
30 messages
joined Jul 2003
#26 ·
Essence said:The more I think I know, the more I realize how little I actually understand.
Are you really going to push for even more "knowledge" after that😁?

If you want things for me that I don't want for myself, I assume you hate me.
But then again, I can't always be sure what I actually want, because sometimes the fallout of an event doesn't show its true impact until much later.
Your supposedly malicious intentions might actually end up doing me some good.

So how am I supposed to say for certain that you ever hate me?

😉

You’re implying that hate is entirely relative: just because you want something for me that I don't want for myself doesn't mean you wish me ill. So, you're right when you say the consequences aren't immediately clear, and you can't claim to wish me harm. (Does that mean you accept that hate is evil?) I don't know if you remember, but I mentioned earlier that I believe love is a byproduct of reason. I think the same applies to hate. Like any emotion, hate has an expiration date. How can hate become chronic or pathological unless it's being fueled by reason?
Just like you said: you can't truly know if someone hates you. It's pure logic.

Dada:
Yeah, and hate can actually have positive outcomes.

Agreed. It's a matter of logic.

Bradley Fisher20:
Do you agree that hate isn't good for the person feeling it?

Well, that's where the logic breaks down. Emotions are messy, and I honestly have no clue where the line is between good and bad. Just like love can cause misery for the person loving in certain situations, hate can lead to something good.
My last two answers were about the external effects of hate—how it hits the masses—whereas your question focused on the individual.
I think hate can be a great motivator.😎
A Anonymous Veteran
3.6K messages
joined May 2005
#27 ·
It’s true... hate actually stems from love, specifically an excessive love for oneself. Why do you hate someone? It’s because they screwed you over, cheated on you, ripped you off financially, or just caused you pain. Essentially, they did something that disrupted your smooth little life... and let's face it, nobody likes having their peace disturbed.
You hate people because they didn't play by your rules, and you hate them even more if they ran you through and then had the nerve to act like it was no big deal.
You hate someone because you loved them, gave them everything you had, and they betrayed that trust and trashed it... basically, they bruised your ego. Everything ultimately revolves around us—around the "me" as an individual. When things don't go exactly the way I expected, it becomes an unacceptable outcome, and that's how hatred is born... it's as simple as that.
dustywolf32 dustywolf32 Newcomer
6 messages
joined Jul 2003
#28 ·
dustywolf32 said:It's true... hatred stems from love, specifically from an excessive love for oneself. Why do you hate someone? It’s because they screwed you over, cheated on you emotionally, ripped you off financially, or just caused you pain. Basically, they did something that disrupted your life without any regard for your comfort... and nobody likes having their peace disturbed.
You hate someone because they didn't act the way you wanted them to, and you hate them even more if they actually hurt you and then walked away acting like nothing happened.
You hate someone when you loved them, gave them everything you had, and they betrayed that trust or just ruined things... essentially bruising your ego. Everything revolves around us—around the "me" as an individual. When things don't go according to my expectations, it becomes an undesirable situation, and that's how hatred starts... it's that simple.

Why would hatred resulting from being screwed over be caused by "excessive" self-love? Is it really okay to love someone who consciously mistreated us? Everyone loves to trash talk the ego, but the ego is the foundation of personality. Without a personality, there is no love or any of the stuff we discuss here. Only once you have a sense of self do you actually have something to offer someone else. To consciously subordinate yourself to another at any cost—to act "unconditionally," going against your own ego, your dignity, and your backbone—that is quite literally losing yourself.

But before we can determine what hatred is and if it’s truly linked to love, we first need to define what love actually is. From my own perspective and experience, love isn't just a feeling toward someone; it's the relationship we build with that person. A relationship characterized by respect, affection, tenderness, and trust. Furthermore, any relationship requires at least two people. If one person isn't participating, there is no relationship. If one person keeps trying to build that connection while the other refuses, then what we're talking about is unrequited love—which is really just a polite euphemism for obsession. Love doesn't just happen; it is built. It is earned, just like trust, respect, and affection must be earned.

In my view, hatred is a volatile reaction to unrequited or undeserved love. It serves a purpose in that it acts as the fastest, most effective "ointment" for an open wound. Of course, it's destructive and corrosive in the long run, but it functions as a natural defense mechanism, serving its purpose as a form of first aid.
Harold James9 Harold James9 Active Member
76 messages
joined Mar 2008
#29 ·
Illegal said:Hmm. What even is hatred? Why does it exist? To what end?

Hatred is an intense emotion driven by hostility and the desire to see someone suffer.

It is a sickness of the spirit and the direct opposite of love. I haven't personally dealt with such a condition, so I can't say why it happens, but doctors should probably look into it.

🙂 🙂 🙂
hiddenviper9 hiddenviper9 Active Member
81 messages
joined Oct 2003
#30 ·
Illegale,

Does this count as part of the "Hatred" thread?

I absolutely HATE checking my teeth and legs before I head to bed.
And you know what’s funny? I hate doing it even more when it’s raining—mostly because I can't stand the rain (unless it's just enough to cool things down).😁
A Anonymous Veteran
3.6K messages
joined May 2005
#31 ·
Is it actually okay to still have feelings for someone who played you on purpose?

And is it alright to hate them? Wouldn't it be easier to just ignore them? What does hatred really achieve besides draining your energy for no reason? Not to mention how much unnecessary drama hating brings along, making everything even more complicated... honestly, you just need to write that person off and move on with your life.
Andrew Hernandez Andrew Hernandez Member
20 messages
joined Nov 2005
#32 ·
Strider says:

What’s the point of holding onto hate, other than just wasting energy? Not to mention how much unnecessary drama it drags along, making everything even more complicated... honestly, you just have to move past that person and let life go on.


I agree. But life doesn't usually work out that way.

Love feels more like an impulse toward fusion—a desire to become one.

Hatred is just a natural impulse. Its only goal is to divide, destroy, and kill.
She is the complete opposite of love.

Hate is just a negative reaction to its opposite—love.

Hatred exists on its own. It’s like a gift we're handed at birth. You don't even need a target for it to surface.
Hatred comes first. It seeks out an object only after the fact, just to have somewhere to land.
Most people assume it works the other way around. I suppose I'm wrong about that.

It’s much the same when it comes to love.
No one planted love within us. It just grew there on its own. Eventually, it simply overflowed toward the most fitting target.
Alexander Hall Alexander Hall Member
38 messages
joined Oct 2005
#33 ·
Walker said:Is it okay to love someone who intentionally screwed us over?

And is it okay to hate them? Isn't ignoring them enough? What does hate actually achieve besides wasting energy? Not to mention how much unnecessary drama it drags in, making everything even more complicated... just cut that person out of your life and move on.

Of course it isn't "okay" to hate them, though I don't think people actually reach that level that often.
Usually, people just feel anger, fury, or hurt.
I doubt it escalates to pure hatred very frequently.
Most of the time, once the hurt fades, the other negative feelings go with it.
The second factor is whether we choose to feed those negative emotions later on.
If we do, we're really just hurting ourselves.

I agree that ignoring them is the way to go. Once you've worked through your own feelings.
Why waste time and energy on people we've already decided have nothing
positive to offer ( 🙂 which is an exaggeration—everyone has something positive to offer
), and with whom we simply don't feel right for various reasons.
We took the lesson from that relationship (if there was one to be learned),
so we move on.
A Anonymous Veteran
3.6K messages
joined May 2005
#34 ·
I don't have much else to say after Aeneas 🙂 👍

The only thing is, Aragorn, is it worth crossing someone off the list...? 😕

They definitely shouldn't be written off or labeled as "beyond saving." You've gotta keep a little hope alive for them, but at the same time, you need to step back and just let them follow their own path.
Andrew Hernandez Andrew Hernandez Member
20 messages
joined Nov 2005
#35 ·
Anya said:Basically, most people just feel anger, fury, or hurt back then.
I don't think it turns into hatred that often.
Usually, once the feeling of being hurt fades, all those other negative emotions go with it.

I can't accept that so easily because... aggression is visible at every turn throughout human history.

Every biological imperative carries an inherent "must."
Action has to follow.
It's the same with aggression (which is just a visible form of hate).
It exists within us like hunger, and it has to be satisfied just like any other biological drive.

If we don't find a person, a phenomenon, or a behavior to direct our hate toward,
or if we were raised with a strict taboo against hating,
then aggression finds its only available target—ourselves.
Aggression becomes self-aggression.
Suicide is nothing more than "firing" that aggressive impulse at oneself.
The solution would be finding another object; then the hatred shifts outward, and there's relief.

Many well-meaning attempts to avoid conflict in places where it’s common simply fail.

The same mechanism drives international conflicts.
When collective aggression rises past a certain threshold, wars break out.
War theorists distinguish between the cause of a war and its pretext.

However, conflict happens when aggression goes unchecked, or when someone gives the green light to treat killing (the product of hate)
as an honor or a duty rather than a crime.

And suddenly, a mass of peaceful, decent bureaucrats, engineers, and workers—all acting in the name of some "higher" cause—become bloodthirsty killers fueled by hate.

It's easy to lead a person toward evil
once they've been given PERMISSION to offload their aggressive baggage.

We, as neighbors, first rush out with pale faces and a bit of confusion,
but soon we're enraged, wanting to kill as many so-called enemies as possible.

The absurdity of warfare is obvious to everyone—yet who will admit that the essence of war is venting one's own aggression rather than actually killing the enemy?

Because let's not forget—peace always returns eventually. Enemy becomes friend again.

In the meantime, the impulse for love has grown unbearably high, and the drive to build, unite, and progress pushes us toward peace and love.

Only for us to tear it all down again when the next opportunity arises.
Not for some grand purpose, but because of an internal need, an internal tension.
A Anonymous Veteran
3.6K messages
joined May 2005
#36 ·
Hmm, a little fairy tale, huh? Interesting... :think: 😎

But how are we actually supposed to live a relatively normal life while dealing with that aggressive impulse?

And do we really have to take things to such an extreme?

Look, there's internal tension—which is basically just fuel for energy—and that psychological "current" is always there. But I still believe that how a person processes things internally matters most; that’s what determines which direction they eventually channel all that energy.

Does that make sense? 😕 🙄 😕
Alexander Hall Alexander Hall Member
38 messages
joined Oct 2005
#37 ·
Aggression isn't always born from hatred.
Regardless of the type of aggression we're talking about.
Even just a simple act of mindless violence.
It's more often the result of raw anger or emotions spiraling out of control,
things that don't necessarily require hate to fuel them.
Ryan Ruiz Ryan Ruiz Member
49 messages
joined Dec 2002
#38 ·
Illegal inquiry:
Quincy:
Have you ever actually hated anyone? Has there ever been a moment where your feelings for someone just flipped from positive to negative overnight? Did you genuinely care about them before that happened?

I have never harbored hatred toward anyone in my life. My feelings for people don't just flip from positive to negative in an instant because for me to feel any kind of affinity toward someone, they have to earn it through our interactions as I get to know them and understand their core values. I simply can't develop an affection for someone out of thin air, and if I truly love or care about a person, I find it impossible to turn that into hate.
swiftcobra15 swiftcobra15 Regular
305 messages
joined Dec 2002
#39 ·
There is way too much chatter going on in this thread. I’d appreciate it if everyone could please settle down. M
Andrew Hernandez Andrew Hernandez Member
20 messages
joined Nov 2005
#40 ·
Solaris said:But how can one live a relatively normal life while dealing with that aggressive impulse?


How do we master the arsenal of hate that lives inside all of us
though for some, it becomes obvious?

Through love.
The path and the solution to this eternal puzzle: how to exist within a life of both love and hate, of both existence and death.

It’s impossible to cast off or ignore death and hatred, because they are part of us—part of our nature, our very existence.

And if we can't reject them (since rejection itself is an act of aggression—aggression being any form of division), then our only option is to assimilate them.

Merging love with hate, life with death—it is possible through love
(because it is the only thing that unifies us).

No matter how much we love others, there is always enough love left for ourselves.
It’s a matter of primary narcissism that keeps us alive—a fine-tuned regulator that kicks in automatically when life is threatened.

In that same way, alongside self-love, exists primary self-aggression. Ancient cultures understood this well, developing stories about original sin. It is essentially guilt without cause.

There is simply an impulse within us that seeks to destroy the bearer itself. How? Why?
There is no need for a reason; just as we cannot answer why we live. We live because life exists.
We die because death exists.
If we have found love in the psyche as a reflection of life, then hate is the reflection of death, and it exists in the psyche as well.

From the most innocent examples of self-aggression (self-hatred):
I drive too fast, taking a sharp turn without braking...
I drink black coffee... this is my fifth cup... I'll order another.
I smoke... this is my second pack... I'm lighting the next one.
I'm exhausted... I know how wonderful it would be to sleep, but instead, I turn on the PC.
I eat... I know my blood pressure is high... yet I eat more.
I write, crafting sentences beautifully... then I write faster... losing my thread... writing even faster... getting angry at myself...
I face a choice regarding my own life... I've submitted all my paperwork... I only have one left to hand in... days pass... I wait until the last second... racing to the post office...
I pick up fruit with unwashed hands.
I dress lightly even though it's freezing out.
I insult a friend for no reason...

These and many other "innocent" acts of hate clearly point toward self-hatred.
Why?

There is no answer...

Within us, there is often a saboteur, preventing us from rising above the mud of our own lives.

As if there were a fear of change, or of success...

Avoiding change...

And aggression (hate) toward oneself and toward one's surroundings is so often intertwined...

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