Online banking issues

slycrane94 said:Oh, come on—how are you supposed to prove someone actually swiped your funds if they logged in using your own PIN? Sure, that might work in a textbook scenario, but I highly doubt it’s that simple in the real world.

I have to say, I feel the exact same way. How am I expected to prove a theft occurred if someone used a forged token along with my PIN? Honestly, I don't see the difference.

That being said, does it really fall on me to provide all that proof? If money goes missing, the system logs should be able to show whether the access was legitimate, where it originated from, and which accounts were drained... Besides, logging in isn't just about entering a PIN; it requires a combination of specific credentials that only you should know...

And at the end of the day, as long as we have FDIC insurance protecting our banks, I shouldn't have to lose sleep over my balance.

If you want an insurance payout, you actually have to prove someone else was behind the transaction.

Your PIN and other static info are easy enough to scrape, leaving you with zero proof that it wasn't you. If the logs show you logged in using your own PIN, what are you going to do?

If the bank itself gets hacked, that's one thing—that's visible. But in cases like this, there's basically no way to distinguish between legitimate access and a fraudster.

slycrane94 said:If you grab the PIN and other static data, there's basically nothing left to prove it wasn't you. If the logs show you logged in using your own PIN, then that’s the end of the story.

True, but that logic only holds up if we can actually prove it was me logging in rather than an impostor. That’s really the whole point of having audit logs—to provide evidence of whether any irregularities or illegal activities took place. If something went wrong, your funds should still be protected under federal regulations. Beyond that, those logs serve a second purpose: they track exactly where the money moved after the fact.

I mean, what are the actual odds that someone besides me happens to know my account number, my login credentials, AND my PIN all at once? Is that statistical probability really any higher than the chance of someone physically stealing my debit card or my security token? When you look at it from a standpoint of protecting your assets, both scenarios are equally risky; one just happens to be a lot more expensive for the bank to deal with.

As a regular guy, I don't really worry about getting hacked. I guess the big players haven't been burned yet either, so maybe everything is working just fine for now.
It’ll get tricky once the people actually working at the bank decide to go rogue...😁

The token generates a new code every single time, and you can only use the old one once. Plus, you have to know the token's passcode to even get in.

Right now, there's probably some keylogger tracking every single thing you type. Not to mention, intercepting your connection isn't exactly rocket science either.

Once they have your login, they've got your account number too. Honestly, the odds of losing your physical card are slim, and once you realize something is wrong, you can just freeze everything instantly.

But if someone snatches your PIN or your credentials online? You won't even know it happened until it's too late.

Man, slycrane94... you're being really difficult here. This is the third time I’ve pointed out that logs exist. Whether there’s actually a virus involved or someone just snagged your login credentials isn't the core issue; what matters is exactly where that money went. Money doesn't just evaporate from a bank account; it has to go somewhere. If a theft actually occurs and you report it, banks can easily comb through every single transaction within a specific timeframe to track exactly where those funds were transferred. Is it really that hard to grasp that we aren't talking about someone picking your pocket and walking off with physical cash that leaves no trail? We are talking about digital transactions that leave a paper trail.

Even if you lose your debit card or a security token, or if they get stolen, the finder—or the thief—has a window of time before you even realize anything is missing. That could be a few minutes, or it could be several days...

Think about it: what would you do if I handed you my login and my PIN? Do you honestly think you could just wire money to one of your own accounts without leaving a trace? Or that you could just stroll into a Chase branch and withdraw cash unnoticed? I don't think so...

P.S. You still haven't answered my question over in that thread about the dollar crashing.

I honestly cannot wrap my head around the fact that people in America still get charged for online banking. I’ve been handling everything myself through my bank's website for almost three years now, and let me tell you, the perks are massive. For instance, I can deposit money directly into my account and then just move it wherever I want, whenever I feel like it—all from my computer at home. No lines, no waiting around... you just hit the bank's site, type in your 8-digit PIN and your password, and boom, you're in. It pulls up everything: checking accounts, loans, credit cards, even those side accounts I set up for the kids... everything. It shows every single transaction from the last year. And the best part? I can do it from any computer anywhere.
Then there's PayPal, which means I can settle all my bills right from my desktop too.
And here's the kicker: sitting at my home computer, using my online portal, I can transfer cash directly from my account to my old man's account over at Chase. It actually blew my mind the first time I tried it—the bank's website listed every single Chase branch across the US with every tiny little detail imaginable, so I just had to plug in his name and account number, and that was it!
Having this kind of access is such a lifesaver when I'm traveling around the US because I have eyes on every single cent of my finances. I haven't stepped foot inside a physical bank building in ages, and honestly, managing my money this way is just incredible!👍

Anderlon said:I'm plugging a smartcard reader into my laptop's USB port. The smartcard acts as my ID. Before this, I used a token—basically a little device similar to a calculator that spits out encrypted numbers...

Strange. My bank (JPMorgan Chase, Switzerland) actually went the other way. They started with smart cards, then ditched them after two years in favor of tokens. Is the token actually more secure?

stormylynx14 said:That’s weird. My bank (JPMorgan Chase in Switzerland) actually went backward. They used to have smart cards, then two years later they ditched them for physical tokens. Is a token even more secure?

The smart card is probably more secure, but I guess a token is just easier. Maybe lazy customers couldn't figure out how to install a reader or copy a certificate onto a card, so they gave up, and now banks are "reverting" back to tokens.

Cheers,
Chris Ruiz10

So, I’ve been trying to use the online banking for this one bank here...
The setup was a total nightmare, and honestly, trying to get a hold of their customer service was even worse—it's just constant busy signals or being stuck on hold forever. Once I finally, *finally* got everything installed and working, I tried moving some money around, but the server keeps crashing on me constantly. Transfers just hang there, and then when they actually go through, the transaction date doesn't even match the day I actually sent the funds...

Anyway, because of one of those messed-up transfers, I am in deep s*hit right now...
I mean, sure, if you pay your cell phone bill a day late, nobody cares, right? But if you have a super strict deadline for a payment—like something legally binding—and the bank waits until a day later to process it, and then your whole deal falls through? Then you're totally screwed! 😠

brisknomad6 said:I've been trying to use my local bank's online portal...
The setup was a nightmare, and getting anyone on the phone was even worse—just endless busy signals and hold music. Once I finally got everything running and tried to move some money, the server kept crashing. Transfers get stuck in limbo, and they don't even honor the original transaction date when they finally process them...

Now, because of one of those delayed transfers, I'm in a massive hole...
If you pay a cell phone bill a day late, who cares? But what happens when you have a strict, legally mandated deadline and the bank sits on your funds until the next day, causing you to miss it? Everything falls apart.😠

It’s true. Even here, moving money to an outside account takes at least a full business day. It’s honestly ridiculous considering how much computing power exists and how few major banks there actually are. They probably just pocket the interest and call it a day.

If you rely on them for business, you might want to draft a contract with the bank so there's actual accountability when they screw up.

So, I finally got the official word from them—an actual confirmation that they totally screwed up... but honestly? It didn't really change anything for us. I guess a rule is a rule, no matter how much they messed up 😢

brisknomad6 said:They finally sent an official confirmation admitting they messed up... but it didn't change a thing. Rules are rules, I guess.😢

So shouldn't they be picking up the tab then? Since when did everyone get so petty that they refuse to honor a mistake?

With my own bank accounts, you usually just get a warning if you slip up once. It happens. Why is corporate business treated like such a different beast?

I am

I'm rocking a Goldman Sachs smart card and dealing with the Federal Reserve

There’s zero need for all these smart cards, tokens, or other nonsense. I seriously doubt they simplify anything; if anything, they just add layers of complexity by forcing you to install extra software or hardware, which usually ties you down to a single computer.

At the end of the day, everything runs through a 128-bit encrypted SSL browser layer, and that should be the end of it. Sure, you need a user ID and a password that you can change whenever you feel like it.

Besides, I don't know anyone in the USA who has ever had an issue with online banking or using Bill Pay. To me, that seems like the most secure way to communicate with your bank. In any other scenario—like when you involve the human element—there's always the risk of someone memorizing your card details or robbing you at an ATM... or worse.

And like someone once said, what can a hacker actually do if they manage to log into my account? They can't, unless they have my specific user ID and password, and even then, if they miss three attempts, the whole account gets suspended automatically. Honestly, the dumbest thing they could do is just transfer money to their own account. If you're going to be a real criminal, it would be smarter to figure out how much cash you have and then kidnap a spouse or a sister to extort you...
Then again, you can just set a daily transaction limit—usually a few thousand dollars or whatever you decide—which adds another layer of safety. 🙂

Jason Wells4 said:As they say, what can someone actually do? They'd need my login credentials, and even then, three wrong guesses and the whole account gets suspended automatically. Honestly, the dumbest thing a thief could do is try to transfer cash to their own account. If you're looking for a more sophisticated scheme, you’d figure out how much someone is worth and then go after their spouse or sister to set up some extortion.
Furthermore, you can cap your daily transaction limits—usually at a few thousand dollars or whatever you decide—which adds another layer of security. 🙂

Wells4, I hope you aren't sitting on a massive pile of cash in that USA account of yours. Someone could crack that account and reroute your funds to an address linked to forged documents. And getting those login details is easy enough with a keylogger virus monitoring every keystroke you make.

I’ve spent nearly two years now working on developing online banking systems, and honestly, the technology behind it all is incredibly secure. Still, as a regular guy just trying to manage his money, I find myself much more impressed by hardware tokens than those old-school smart cards...

Chase is fantastic. It’s truly a cut above the rest. I actually made the switch to them for that exact reason!

I’m with you there; I actually prefer this setup too—having online access from any computer just by using your own username and password.

By the way, when you were asking about buying stocks through a bank, I figured you were looking to streamline things and keep everything under one roof—checking, savings, and your brokerage account all in one spot. You can definitely do that with Charles Schwab (that's what I use). You even get a debit card out of it. The only real catch is that you usually need to maintain a pretty high balance to avoid getting hit with fees. Plus, you’ll want to set up online bill pay for most of your accounts. Personally, I still keep a local bank account just for convenience, but having that Charles Schwab checking account works great as a savings vehicle—or if you’re moving around a lot, it’s easy to quickly transfer funds from your local bank over to it. I’ll probably migrate everything over to that single account in the next few years so my whole financial life is centralized in one institution, though maybe there's some wisdom in keeping multiple accounts (whether it's for security reasons, avoiding issues with shady actors, or if you're into conspiracy theories, or even if you're planning a divorce, etc.).

Joe 😁,

It might be a good idea for you to register so people can actually send you a private message, you know... just being neighborly... 😁

That’s not quite what I meant... I already have accounts open with brokers (Charles Schwab and E*TRADE), but I don't really use them for my day-to-day transactions. My reasoning is pretty simple: I want to keep this specific account and my primary source of income separate from everything else.

I use a major international bank—not exactly "local," but you get my point—for all my standard banking needs, whether that's online transfers, checks, or card swipes. They do offer brokerage services too, but they aren't set up for day traders like me, since most of their clients handle daily volume through other specialized brokers...

Of course, I've linked all my accounts together so I can move funds back and forth seamlessly every day... though, mind you, the cash doesn't actually hit until the following day.

BTW, does anyone know what the commission is on Fidelity for stop and limit orders?