Spirituality and money

So, where did all the wealthy elites disappear to?

nimbleranger5 said:Honestly, there’s no such thing as a "bad" student—there are just students. 🧐

William Roberts3 said:🙂 and honestly, there aren't even any students left—it's just this!
🧐

And now I love you all!

🙂

Larry Moore83 said:And now I love you all!

🙂

Once again—unconditional love is just sweeping through this forum🙂

🙂

Long live love!🙂

Larry Moore83 said:^
There’s no such thing as a "bad" teacher—there are only "bad" students!
🧐

Look, a student doesn't actually *know* anything yet, so they can't exactly be "at fault."

Money itself, just like anything else, isn't inherently good or bad—it’s like a knife... you can use it to cook a great dinner or cause some serious harm... the choice is entirely yours. Having a ton of cash doesn't mean someone lacks spiritual depth; it's only the obsession with money that does that. Same goes for getting too attached to anything material—whether it's a house, a car, a person, or even an idea...

That being said, in today's world, money often acts as this awesome catalyst for spiritual growth... so honestly, thanks for existing, money! I'm a fan.=)

Robert Fisher9 said:Money itself, just like anything else, isn't inherently good or bad—it’s like a knife... you can use it to cook a great dinner or cause some serious harm... the choice is entirely yours. Having a ton of cash doesn't mean someone lacks spiritual depth; it's only the obsession with money that does that. Same goes for getting too attached to anything material—whether it's a house, a car, a person, or even an idea...

That being said, in today's world, money often acts as this awesome catalyst for spiritual growth... so honestly, thanks for existing, money! I'm a fan.=)

Hehe.🙂
It is certainly easier to buy meat from a butcher than it is to raise and slaughter the animal yourself.
I find the same applies to spirituality. One must give something to receive something—that is simply how the universe works. While money might hold no weight for some spiritual seekers, for others, it carries far too much.🙂

Robert Fisher9 said:Money itself, just like anything else, isn't inherently good or bad—it’s like a knife... you can use it to cook a great dinner or cause some serious harm... the choice is entirely yours. Having a ton of cash doesn't mean someone lacks spiritual depth; it's only the obsession with money that does that. Same goes for getting too attached to anything material—whether it's a house, a car, a person, or even an idea...

That being said, in today's world, money often acts as this awesome catalyst for spiritual growth... so honestly, thanks for existing, money! I'm a fan.=)

It's like a circular argument, really.

wearyhawk83 said:Look, a student doesn't actually *know* anything yet, so they can't exactly be "at fault."

🤦
But aren't they at fault simply because they don't know? Is there not a certain culpability in being a student—in that state of perpetual unknowing?🧐
😁

hollowpuma762 said:It's like a circular argument, really.

Once you've burned through enough of it in this life, things start to become clear.

Robert Fisher9 said:Money itself, just like anything else, isn't inherently good or bad—it’s like a knife... you can use it to cook a great dinner or cause some serious harm... the choice is entirely yours. Having a ton of cash doesn't mean someone lacks spiritual depth; it's only the obsession with money that does that. Same goes for getting too attached to anything material—whether it's a house, a car, a person, or even an idea...

That being said, in today's world, money often acts as this awesome catalyst for spiritual growth... so honestly, thanks for existing, money! I'm a fan.=)

Using "too often" as a rule of thumb is flawed, because that would be the first sign that someone is, figuratively speaking, bowing before the altar of Mammon. Jesus spoke extensively on this topic... regarding the spirit of greed, and how one cannot serve two masters.

The pursuit of spiritual fulfillment and the pursuit of material wealth cannot be forced simultaneously; if you have a goal, you have one ultimate objective, not ten or fifteen conflicting ones.

Of course, there are wealthy and influential people who might, say, follow a Divine mission, but for them, money is merely a by-product rather than being their primary life purpose.

In the first instance, money will not bring happiness to a person, whereas in the second, it truly can.

Benjamin Taylor6 said:It’s because people spend so much time pouring over the Bible and various Eastern texts. They all lean into that idea—you know the one—that it's easier for a camel to squeeze through the eye of a needle than for a wealthy person to enter heaven. So why does that narrative stick?
Because, let's be real, money buys comfort. And when you have plenty of material wealth, it's easy to get lost in indulging the physical self. Some people hit their limit quickly, others take longer... and then you have those who find a way to balance pleasure with purpose—meditating in a Rolls-Royce, for instance. 😁

yes, why? 😁

* because for the (pagan) rich man in the parable, money clearly got in the way of much more important things?

* because for the (pagan) rich man in the parable, wealth is the center of his life, thereby occupying God's place.

* because (for the rich man in the parable) wealth creates a distorted relationship with material goods—things like recklessness, greed, self-reliance, and so on.

Generally speaking, it's because

* it isn't wise to prioritize financial success.

Quincy:

No one can serve two masters. Either they will hate one and love the other, or they will hold to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Mammon. (Matthew 6:24)

(what does the English word Mammon actually mean? well... Christian theologians claim Jesus is actually naming a demon in cases where such people are truly being controlled. does the word money derive from it? possibly).

In general, while it isn't impossible, it is difficult for the wealthy to enter God's kingdom.

(again, the point is about trust—about priorities. plus motivation—why do they want money and for whom or what.

* and because the love of money leads to Evil.

* and because human satisfaction is not tied to the amount of money or the size of the fortune one possesses (but rather to their spiritual state and relationship with God).

* because a person's interests lie wherever they invest their money. (if their priority is earthly, that is what they attach themselves to)

Quincy:

For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. (Matthew 6:21)

etc etc

Oh yeah, they actually ran some statistics on this in the United Kingdom and it was published in all the newspapers just a few months ago. The study looked at which faiths were most prominent in high-level positions within banking and finance.

According to the research, 8 out of 10 were Jewish, followed by Hindus in second place. Christians were the least represented. Catholics weren't even close, lol. Good news, I guess 😁 and it's somewhat expected that it might turn out that way. It seems Christians don't 'worship' Mammon, even in the UK, 2000 years after that true story in the Bible about the rich man whose only treasure was material and transient rather than spiritual.

.

The issue is that a wealthy individual lacks any real drive for more, since they can simply acquire whatever they desire. Eventually, they might realize money isn't everything, though they'd likely just spend it all again to find out. To them, money becomes meaningless once you have an abundance. That is why you have to force such a person to sacrifice something to gain 🙂. Some people actually exploit this; instead of asking for cash, they demand something far more Divine from him.

Sandra Morales said:The issue is that a wealthy individual lacks any real drive for more, since they can simply acquire whatever they desire. Eventually, they might realize money isn't everything, though they'd likely just spend it all again to find out. To them, money becomes meaningless once you have an abundance. That is why you have to force such a person to sacrifice something to gain 🙂. Some people actually exploit this; instead of asking for cash, they demand something far more Divine from him.

I can't say I agree with that.

Whether you’re wealthy or struggling, everyone is driven by that same restless hunger. It’s a universal constant. Kids and young adults are the perfect example—they’re always reaching for something more than what they currently have, ranging from tiny trifles to massive ambitions. To someone sitting on a mountain of cash, the "big dreams" of an average person might seem trivial or even meaningless, but that's no consolation. Even those at the top are constantly chasing the next thing, forever looking for something more.

If we could just solve that one single issue—this relentless hunger for power and wealth—humanity would be in a vastly better place. It really comes down to a fundamental flaw in how we think. Honestly, I believe a broken mindset is the root cause of pretty much every problem and all the evil we see today. When people let that distorted thinking drive them, the fallout is nothing short of catastrophic.

The average person struggles with a skewed mindset regardless of their circumstances. When they’re doing well, they let their greed and endless desires run wild. When they’re facing an existential crisis, they might become more practical and focus on survival, but the negative thoughts still pile up either way. If you look at how human civilizations have actually progressed, history shows that growth usually happens when people aren't constantly starving. There’s an old saying that goes, "Religion isn't for empty stomachs." Essentially, having enough material stability provides the foundation needed for spiritual growth. Unfortunately, most people stay trapped by their worldly cravings, obsessing over whether their material wants will be met or not. That constant cycle of desire and disappointment? That’s the root of all suffering.

Back during the socialist era in America, we didn't actually solve our core issue: our flawed mindset. Even though most people were—let’s call it what it was—perfectly fine with their material status in many cases, the underlying rot remained. They still dealt with systemic negative thinking and chronic stress. Think of it this way: that stress is purely psychological. On its own, it might not seem like a massive hurdle to clear, but because people live in ignorance, they carry these patterns for thousands of years. It becomes an ingrained part of the human condition that most people don't even realize they have until it completely wrecks their nervous system, leading to debilitating chronic illnesses. If you aren't willing to throw yourself headfirst into fixing those internal patterns—if you aren't absolutely relentless about resolving that conflict within yourself—you simply cannot achieve spiritual growth.

The way most people think every single day is fundamentally broken. This constant loop of negative thoughts and unnecessary stress is arguably the root cause of almost all our societal issues. It wears down your nervous system, which essentially sabotages every part of your life. You end up stuck, limited, and completely unable to tap into the massive potential sitting right inside you—potential that’s far greater than anyone could ever imagine.

Wealthy people are just as selfish as everyone else, mostly because they're operating from a place of ignorance. If they actually understood the bigger picture, they’d be working to build a world that prioritizes the common good—but that would require them to confront their own greed. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule, but those people are few and far between.

The religious paradox is staring us right in the face. Look at Vatican City today—as the heart of the Christian organization, it stands as a massive monument to wealth and the pursuit of Mammon. It’s the polar opposite of the core essence of Christ's teachings regarding serving humanity. Meanwhile, we have millions of people around the globe dying from hunger every single year, most of them just children. On the flip side, you look at Islam, which for centuries has been intensely focused on the "desire for power." Sure, those two things are always intertwined, but in one case, greed takes center stage, while in the other, control is the main driver. In many Islamic nations, religious organizations hold the reins of government, but even where they don't currently rule, they remain an incredibly powerful opposition. They have massive followings and are essentially just waiting for the right moment to topple the current leadership through violence and everything else that comes with it.

Susan Price30 said:yes, why? 😁

* because for the (pagan) rich man in the parable, money clearly got in the way of much more important things?

* because for the (pagan) rich man in the parable, wealth is the center of his life, thereby occupying God's place.

* because (for the rich man in the parable) wealth creates a distorted relationship with material goods—things like recklessness, greed, self-reliance, and so on.

Generally speaking, it's because

* it isn't wise to prioritize financial success.

Quincy:

No one can serve two masters. Either they will hate one and love the other, or they will hold to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Mammon. (Matthew 6:24)

(what does the English word Mammon actually mean? well... Christian theologians claim Jesus is actually naming a demon in cases where such people are truly being controlled. does the word money derive from it? possibly).

In general, while it isn't impossible, it is difficult for the wealthy to enter God's kingdom.

(again, the point is about trust—about priorities. plus motivation—why do they want money and for whom or what.

* and because the love of money leads to Evil.

* and because human satisfaction is not tied to the amount of money or the size of the fortune one possesses (but rather to their spiritual state and relationship with God).

* because a person's interests lie wherever they invest their money. (if their priority is earthly, that is what they attach themselves to)

Quincy:

For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. (Matthew 6:21)

etc etc

Oh yeah, they actually ran some statistics on this in the United Kingdom and it was published in all the newspapers just a few months ago. The study looked at which faiths were most prominent in high-level positions within banking and finance.

According to the research, 8 out of 10 were Jewish, followed by Hindus in second place. Christians were the least represented. Catholics weren't even close, lol. Good news, I guess 😁 and it's somewhat expected that it might turn out that way. It seems Christians don't 'worship' Mammon, even in the UK, 2000 years after that true story in the Bible about the rich man whose only treasure was material and transient rather than spiritual.

.

Theoretically, you’ve got a point there. But then again, you have to consider the psychology of the complete opposite extreme—the idea that people might just decide to walk away from material progress altogether and start Living like the Amish!
Or maybe like humble friars—honestly, if everyone had actually stuck to the literal teachings of Jesus, we’d still be out here driving horse-drawn carriages instead of high-tech EVs.

So, some group of so-called "expert" theologians got together—you know how it goes, they sit around in their ivory towers—and decided to cook up an entirely different set of rules for the game. Apparently, they think they’ve found a way to tie everything directly to the evolution of modern capitalism. It's all very interconnected, if you ask me...
The Protestant work ethic—it’s one of those concepts people love to toss around in academic circles, but if you actually sit down and look at the gears turning underneath, it gets a bit complicated. It isn't just about being a "good worker" or showing up to the office in Chicago at 8:00 AM sharp; it’s a deep-seated psychological framework that shaped how much of our modern world was built. Back in the day, particularly within certain branches of American Protestantism, there was this intense idea that success wasn't just about luck or divine favor—though people certainly prayed for it—but rather a sign of one's standing with God. If you were industrious, disciplined, and avoided the "sinful" temptations of leisure or excess, your prosperity was seen as a sort of outward evidence of your inner grace. It turned the act of working itself into a spiritual discipline. You weren't just grinding away to pay the rent; you were fulfilling a calling. Now, I know what some might say—and I’ve heard folks like Benjamin Taylor6 argue similar points in different contexts—that this mindset is what fueled the massive industrial expansion we saw in the US during the 19th century. And they aren't wrong. That relentless drive to optimize, to save, and to reinvest instead of spending on frivolous luxuries... well, that's the engine that powered the American Dream. It created a culture of extreme productivity, but let’s be honest—it also laid the groundwork for the burnout culture we’re all drowning in today. I remember my grandfather used to talk about his time working in the steel mills back in Pennsylvania. He didn't see it as a "career path" in the modern, sanitized sense; he saw it as a duty. To him, wasting time was practically a moral failing. There was no "quiet quitting" back then—not because the bosses were nicer (they certainly weren't), but because the internal compass pointing toward hard work was so heavily calibrated. But here’s where it gets messy. When you take a spiritual motivator and turn it into a purely economic one, things start to warp. We moved from a belief in "calling" to a blind worship of Mammon. We traded the pursuit of meaningful labor for the sheer accumulation of capital. It’s a slippery slope, really—one where the dignity of the individual often gets lost in the pursuit of the bottom line. We kept the "work" part of the equation, but we slowly stripped away the "spiritual" foundation that was supposed to keep it grounded. It’s why so many people feel like they’re running on a treadmill that never stops, even though the religious fervor that started the race has long since faded into the background.

The whole idea behind the Protestant work ethic really boils down to this sense of sincere, straightforward devotion—you know, that deep-seated focus on honoring the Holy Trinity. It’s all rooted in that classic Christian heritage where you live out your faith through personal prayer and studying the Bible, while also being an active part of the community within the Church. There’s this one core theological principle that drives the whole thing—and it’s simple, though I think people overlook how vital it actually is: any job, no matter what it is, can be done for the glory of God if you approach it with honesty, dedication, and sheer persistence. It’s about putting your heart into the grind. To put it plainly—and I mean this in the most essential way—this kind of piety naturally encourages thriftiness. When you combine hard work with being smart about your money, you start creating the exact social conditions needed for capital to accumulate. Once you have that capital, and you use it rationally instead of just blowing it, you reinvest it to generate profit. Eventually, that leads to material prosperity for both the individual and society at large. It’s a cycle, really—work, save, invest, prosper. Simple as that.

See, the modern Christian capitalist doesn't actually get a kick out of just hoarding piles of cash to spend on himself—that’s not the point at all. No, his real goal is to scale up, to build more factories and provide enough jobs so that his workers can actually enjoy a decent standard of living.
The owner takes a tiny slice of the profit for his own personal luxuries, while the lion's share goes right back into the business—you know, upgrading technology and improving the actual foundation of the work. Take the owner of a massive retail chain like Walmart, for instance; he’s the textbook definition of this kind of capitalist.

It is the polar opposite of those nouveau riche American capitalists you see popping up everywhere lately—the ones whose only real ambition is to grab as much cash as possible and build gaudy mansions. They’ll even drive their own companies straight into the ground just to do it. Then again, most of them probably snatched up their businesses for pennies during some shady privatization deal anyway.
Take someone like a local tycoon looking to make a quick buck; they represent that classic, shallow American capitalist mindset. And apparently, once an American capitalist hits fifty with a fat bank account, the rule is that he absolutely has to marry a much younger woman.😁

I mean, let's be honest, that counts as accumulating material goods too:

Michael Gonzalez77 said:I can't say I agree with that.

Whether you’re wealthy or struggling, everyone is driven by that same restless hunger. It’s a universal constant. Kids and young adults are the perfect example—they’re always reaching for something more than what they currently have, ranging from tiny trifles to massive ambitions. To someone sitting on a mountain of cash, the "big dreams" of an average person might seem trivial or even meaningless, but that's no consolation. Even those at the top are constantly chasing the next thing, forever looking for something more.

If we could just solve that one single issue—this relentless hunger for power and wealth—humanity would be in a vastly better place. It really comes down to a fundamental flaw in how we think. Honestly, I believe a broken mindset is the root cause of pretty much every problem and all the evil we see today. When people let that distorted thinking drive them, the fallout is nothing short of catastrophic.

The average person struggles with a skewed mindset regardless of their circumstances. When they’re doing well, they let their greed and endless desires run wild. When they’re facing an existential crisis, they might become more practical and focus on survival, but the negative thoughts still pile up either way. If you look at how human civilizations have actually progressed, history shows that growth usually happens when people aren't constantly starving. There’s an old saying that goes, "Religion isn't for empty stomachs." Essentially, having enough material stability provides the foundation needed for spiritual growth. Unfortunately, most people stay trapped by their worldly cravings, obsessing over whether their material wants will be met or not. That constant cycle of desire and disappointment? That’s the root of all suffering.

Back during the socialist era in America, we didn't actually solve our core issue: our flawed mindset. Even though most people were—let’s call it what it was—perfectly fine with their material status in many cases, the underlying rot remained. They still dealt with systemic negative thinking and chronic stress. Think of it this way: that stress is purely psychological. On its own, it might not seem like a massive hurdle to clear, but because people live in ignorance, they carry these patterns for thousands of years. It becomes an ingrained part of the human condition that most people don't even realize they have until it completely wrecks their nervous system, leading to debilitating chronic illnesses. If you aren't willing to throw yourself headfirst into fixing those internal patterns—if you aren't absolutely relentless about resolving that conflict within yourself—you simply cannot achieve spiritual growth.

The way most people think every single day is fundamentally broken. This constant loop of negative thoughts and unnecessary stress is arguably the root cause of almost all our societal issues. It wears down your nervous system, which essentially sabotages every part of your life. You end up stuck, limited, and completely unable to tap into the massive potential sitting right inside you—potential that’s far greater than anyone could ever imagine.

Wealthy people are just as selfish as everyone else, mostly because they're operating from a place of ignorance. If they actually understood the bigger picture, they’d be working to build a world that prioritizes the common good—but that would require them to confront their own greed. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule, but those people are few and far between.

The religious paradox is staring us right in the face. Look at Vatican City today—as the heart of the Christian organization, it stands as a massive monument to wealth and the pursuit of Mammon. It’s the polar opposite of the core essence of Christ's teachings regarding serving humanity. Meanwhile, we have millions of people around the globe dying from hunger every single year, most of them just children. On the flip side, you look at Islam, which for centuries has been intensely focused on the "desire for power." Sure, those two things are always intertwined, but in one case, greed takes center stage, while in the other, control is the main driver. In many Islamic nations, religious organizations hold the reins of government, but even where they don't currently rule, they remain an incredibly powerful opposition. They have massive followings and are essentially just waiting for the right moment to topple the current leadership through violence and everything else that comes with it.

👍
In a sense, you make a fair point. I am uncertain, however, if you are speaking from personal experience regarding having unlimited wealth, or if this is simply your general philosophy.

If one reflects deeply enough, a wealthy individual eventually realizes that their capital holds little intrinsic value. We see this today with various Hollywood stars and pop artists who, despite being extremely well-off, suffer from depression. While not all depression stems from a lack of spiritual life, I believe many of these individuals realize there is "something more" to existence through such struggles. Of course, I am generalizing here, and that is not always the case.

What such a person typically does—and finds easiest—is pay a "guru" to teach them the secrets of life. Some might claim they wouldn't, but let's be realistic: if I had as much money as I wanted, I would certainly find myself attending the most expensive spiritual seminars available.
I am not questioning their desire for knowledge; rather, I suspect that someone accustomed to handing out money still retains the habit of "paying for a service" instead of "working for a service."
To my mind, that is a flawed concept because money truly possesses no value, especially to them.

If we simplify the idea: suppose this wealthy person loves driving their Lamborghini at 150 mph on a specific highway. That is a passion. They also enjoy the money they possess.

But if you asked them, would they rather give up a portion of their wealth or the experience of driving that Lamborghini at 140 mph? Personally, I believe they would surrender the cash before they would ever give up the thrill of the drive.

Similarly, I believe that to receive something, one must first give. If you give away something that holds no personal value—money, for instance, which you view as trivial because you have plenty—then the act won't feel significant since you didn't work hard for it. However, if someone sacrifices something precious—an experience, in this case—they will perceive its value as much greater because they gave more of themselves. Eventually, they may realize that the value of driving a Lamborghini isn't inherently better or worse than riding a bicycle, even if a Lamborghini is certainly not a bicycle.
I hope this clarifies my perspective to some extent.

I had never viewed religion from that angle, but it makes sense. Thank you for sharing that. 🙂
Living.

Benjamin Taylor6 said:Theoretically, you’ve got a point there. But then again, you have to consider the psychology of the complete opposite extreme—the idea that people might just decide to walk away from material progress altogether and start Living like the Amish!
Or maybe like humble friars—honestly, if everyone had actually stuck to the literal teachings of Jesus, we’d still be out here driving horse-drawn carriages instead of high-tech EVs.

So, some group of so-called "expert" theologians got together—you know how it goes, they sit around in their ivory towers—and decided to cook up an entirely different set of rules for the game. Apparently, they think they’ve found a way to tie everything directly to the evolution of modern capitalism. It's all very interconnected, if you ask me...
The Protestant work ethic—it’s one of those concepts people love to toss around in academic circles, but if you actually sit down and look at the gears turning underneath, it gets a bit complicated. It isn't just about being a "good worker" or showing up to the office in Chicago at 8:00 AM sharp; it’s a deep-seated psychological framework that shaped how much of our modern world was built. Back in the day, particularly within certain branches of American Protestantism, there was this intense idea that success wasn't just about luck or divine favor—though people certainly prayed for it—but rather a sign of one's standing with God. If you were industrious, disciplined, and avoided the "sinful" temptations of leisure or excess, your prosperity was seen as a sort of outward evidence of your inner grace. It turned the act of working itself into a spiritual discipline. You weren't just grinding away to pay the rent; you were fulfilling a calling. Now, I know what some might say—and I’ve heard folks like Benjamin Taylor6 argue similar points in different contexts—that this mindset is what fueled the massive industrial expansion we saw in the US during the 19th century. And they aren't wrong. That relentless drive to optimize, to save, and to reinvest instead of spending on frivolous luxuries... well, that's the engine that powered the American Dream. It created a culture of extreme productivity, but let’s be honest—it also laid the groundwork for the burnout culture we’re all drowning in today. I remember my grandfather used to talk about his time working in the steel mills back in Pennsylvania. He didn't see it as a "career path" in the modern, sanitized sense; he saw it as a duty. To him, wasting time was practically a moral failing. There was no "quiet quitting" back then—not because the bosses were nicer (they certainly weren't), but because the internal compass pointing toward hard work was so heavily calibrated. But here’s where it gets messy. When you take a spiritual motivator and turn it into a purely economic one, things start to warp. We moved from a belief in "calling" to a blind worship of Mammon. We traded the pursuit of meaningful labor for the sheer accumulation of capital. It’s a slippery slope, really—one where the dignity of the individual often gets lost in the pursuit of the bottom line. We kept the "work" part of the equation, but we slowly stripped away the "spiritual" foundation that was supposed to keep it grounded. It’s why so many people feel like they’re running on a treadmill that never stops, even though the religious fervor that started the race has long since faded into the background.

The whole idea behind the Protestant work ethic really boils down to this sense of sincere, straightforward devotion—you know, that deep-seated focus on honoring the Holy Trinity. It’s all rooted in that classic Christian heritage where you live out your faith through personal prayer and studying the Bible, while also being an active part of the community within the Church. There’s this one core theological principle that drives the whole thing—and it’s simple, though I think people overlook how vital it actually is: any job, no matter what it is, can be done for the glory of God if you approach it with honesty, dedication, and sheer persistence. It’s about putting your heart into the grind. To put it plainly—and I mean this in the most essential way—this kind of piety naturally encourages thriftiness. When you combine hard work with being smart about your money, you start creating the exact social conditions needed for capital to accumulate. Once you have that capital, and you use it rationally instead of just blowing it, you reinvest it to generate profit. Eventually, that leads to material prosperity for both the individual and society at large. It’s a cycle, really—work, save, invest, prosper. Simple as that.

See, the modern Christian capitalist doesn't actually get a kick out of just hoarding piles of cash to spend on himself—that’s not the point at all. No, his real goal is to scale up, to build more factories and provide enough jobs so that his workers can actually enjoy a decent standard of living.
The owner takes a tiny slice of the profit for his own personal luxuries, while the lion's share goes right back into the business—you know, upgrading technology and improving the actual foundation of the work. Take the owner of a massive retail chain like Walmart, for instance; he’s the textbook definition of this kind of capitalist.

It is the polar opposite of those nouveau riche American capitalists you see popping up everywhere lately—the ones whose only real ambition is to grab as much cash as possible and build gaudy mansions. They’ll even drive their own companies straight into the ground just to do it. Then again, most of them probably snatched up their businesses for pennies during some shady privatization deal anyway.
Take someone like a local tycoon looking to make a quick buck; they represent that classic, shallow American capitalist mindset. And apparently, once an American capitalist hits fifty with a fat bank account, the rule is that he absolutely has to marry a much younger woman.😁

I mean, let's be honest, that counts as accumulating material goods too:

You've dissected that quite precisely, almost surgically.🙂 👏

Quincy:

Benjamin Taylor6 Asks: Some theologians looked into this and decided to rewrite the rulebook to better suit the evolution of modern capitalism. What exactly defines the Protestant work ethic? Is it just about being busy, or is there something deeper at play within the American spirit? The Protestant work ethic is rooted in a sincere, straightforward devotion directed toward the worship of the Holy Trinity. It stems from a Christian heritage that encourages personal piety through prayer and studying the Bible, alongside communal devotion within the Church. This ethical framework is built upon a fundamental theological premise: any profession can be done for the glory of God if performed with honesty, dedication, and persistence. Simply put, this type of devotion fosters thriftiness; when diligent work is paired with saving, it creates the social conditions necessary for capital accumulation. When capital is used rationally and reinvested, it generates profit, ultimately leading to material prosperity for both the individual and society at large.

Yes. 🙂 Perhaps it’s worth pointing out that many of the early bankers—or capitalists, if you prefer—in the United Kingdom were actually Quakers. They happened to be some of the most successful, with businesses that managed to endure for generations.

Tell me more about them. Is there anything else? Known as the "Society of Friends"—a Christian movement that operates without priests or formal rituals.

They were truly frugal people—never wasteful, mind you. They possessed an incredible work ethic and felt a deep sense of duty to support those in our society who needed it most.

Some nations—whether they be entire countries, major cities, or even just individual people and their unique destinies—are truly something else. Blessed.Some are on the fringe, perhaps. Is it just bad collective karma, as some might say? Or is it more like those heavy "sins of the fathers" that Christians believe haunt generations?

.

Quincy:

The religious paradox is just as glaring—today, Vatican City serves as the hub for the Christian organization, which stands as a manifestation of immense wealth, driven by a desire for riches. This seems fundamentally at odds with the essence of Christ's teachings regarding service to humanity, especially considering millions of people worldwide die from hunger every year (most of them children). On the other hand, Islam has been fervently focused on the "desire for power" for centuries, though the two are often intertwined; in one case, one aspect dominates, while in the other, it's the opposite. Furthermore, Islamic states are largely led by religious organizations, and even if they aren't currently in power in a specific nation, they remain a powerful opposition with massive followings, simply waiting for the moment to overthrow the government through violence and everything else that entails. __________________

Well, of course it's wealthy because it's the largest religious group (one in four people on this planet is Christian, and Catholics make up the largest portion), and they pour the most funding into missions, humanitarian aid, and social projects globally—projects intended for everyone, not just Christians per se.

Clergy, monks, or nuns personally own nothing. They take vows to live without material wealth, focusing entirely on the spiritual realm. It’s all about serving the Church, after all.

The logic is probably quite simple: if the world's largest religious organization were as poor as anyone else, it would be difficult to achieve anything with their work. They wouldn't have any social influence, and the mission of the Church is precisely that—to have social influence, to improve society, and to provide help where it is needed most.

I think that is exactly what distinguishes the Church from all other groups. And by the way, who funds the Church? 😁Atheists? No, the believers give. By giving to the Church, believers are giving for everyone.

Who does Islam help, since you brought up that religion? Additionally, if you "stand against" a Muslim, they believe evil should be answered with evil (doing even greater harm to those who wronged them)—which is completely and 100% contrary to what Christians believe or what any other faith practices, as far as I know.

That isn't what Gandhi ever believed or preached to Indians, for example.😉 Using such principles—inspired by figures like Martin Luther King—they effectively dismantled the influence of one of the most powerful and greatest Empires in history, the British one, in India. That seems to be the strength; there is a certain spiritual power there that truly has the potential to tear down everything in its path.

Susan Price30 said:Quincy:

The religious paradox is just as glaring—today, Vatican City serves as the hub for the Christian organization, which stands as a manifestation of immense wealth, driven by a desire for riches. This seems fundamentally at odds with the essence of Christ's teachings regarding service to humanity, especially considering millions of people worldwide die from hunger every year (most of them children). On the other hand, Islam has been fervently focused on the "desire for power" for centuries, though the two are often intertwined; in one case, one aspect dominates, while in the other, it's the opposite. Furthermore, Islamic states are largely led by religious organizations, and even if they aren't currently in power in a specific nation, they remain a powerful opposition with massive followings, simply waiting for the moment to overthrow the government through violence and everything else that entails. __________________

Well, of course it's wealthy because it's the largest religious group (one in four people on this planet is Christian, and Catholics make up the largest portion), and they pour the most funding into missions, humanitarian aid, and social projects globally—projects intended for everyone, not just Christians per se.

Clergy, monks, or nuns personally own nothing. They take vows to live without material wealth, focusing entirely on the spiritual realm. It’s all about serving the Church, after all.

The logic is probably quite simple: if the world's largest religious organization were as poor as anyone else, it would be difficult to achieve anything with their work. They wouldn't have any social influence, and the mission of the Church is precisely that—to have social influence, to improve society, and to provide help where it is needed most.

I think that is exactly what distinguishes the Church from all other groups. And by the way, who funds the Church? 😁Atheists? No, the believers give. By giving to the Church, believers are giving for everyone.

Who does Islam help, since you brought up that religion? Additionally, if you "stand against" a Muslim, they believe evil should be answered with evil (doing even greater harm to those who wronged them)—which is completely and 100% contrary to what Christians believe or what any other faith practices, as far as I know.

That isn't what Gandhi ever believed or preached to Indians, for example.😉 Using such principles—inspired by figures like Martin Luther King—they effectively dismantled the influence of one of the most powerful and greatest Empires in history, the British one, in India. That seems to be the strength; there is a certain spiritual power there that truly has the potential to tear down everything in its path.

hmm... what about prebendaries?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prebendary

Sandra Morales said:👍
In a sense, you make a fair point. I am uncertain, however, if you are speaking from personal experience regarding having unlimited wealth, or if this is simply your general philosophy.

If one reflects deeply enough, a wealthy individual eventually realizes that their capital holds little intrinsic value. We see this today with various Hollywood stars and pop artists who, despite being extremely well-off, suffer from depression. While not all depression stems from a lack of spiritual life, I believe many of these individuals realize there is "something more" to existence through such struggles. Of course, I am generalizing here, and that is not always the case.

What such a person typically does—and finds easiest—is pay a "guru" to teach them the secrets of life. Some might claim they wouldn't, but let's be realistic: if I had as much money as I wanted, I would certainly find myself attending the most expensive spiritual seminars available.
I am not questioning their desire for knowledge; rather, I suspect that someone accustomed to handing out money still retains the habit of "paying for a service" instead of "working for a service."
To my mind, that is a flawed concept because money truly possesses no value, especially to them.

If we simplify the idea: suppose this wealthy person loves driving their Lamborghini at 150 mph on a specific highway. That is a passion. They also enjoy the money they possess.

But if you asked them, would they rather give up a portion of their wealth or the experience of driving that Lamborghini at 140 mph? Personally, I believe they would surrender the cash before they would ever give up the thrill of the drive.

Similarly, I believe that to receive something, one must first give. If you give away something that holds no personal value—money, for instance, which you view as trivial because you have plenty—then the act won't feel significant since you didn't work hard for it. However, if someone sacrifices something precious—an experience, in this case—they will perceive its value as much greater because they gave more of themselves. Eventually, they may realize that the value of driving a Lamborghini isn't inherently better or worse than riding a bicycle, even if a Lamborghini is certainly not a bicycle.
I hope this clarifies my perspective to some extent.

I had never viewed religion from that angle, but it makes sense. Thank you for sharing that. 🙂
Living.

🙂 I’m not wealthy, I’ve never been wealthy, and honestly, I have no desire to be. Chasing massive wealth can actually be a trap that stunts your spiritual growth. In this world, being rich usually means you're profiting at someone else's expense. We don't live in a world of infinite resources, so trying to hoard everything for yourself is just selfish and completely disconnected from reality.

There are a few people out there who ended up wealthy, but let’s be real—they didn't get there because they were hungry for success. It wasn't about ambition or grit; it was just pure luck, like hitting the jackpot on a Powerball ticket.

Instead, it’s better to just aim for security, peace of mind, and a little bit of comfort.

Look, what I’m getting at isn't actually about the money itself. Money is just money—it only carries weight because we collectively decide to give it that much importance. But unfortunately, for most people, that value is tied into every single aspect of their lives.

I’m talking about how human desire often crashes headfirst into reality. People end up drowning in debt chasing things they don't actually need, and once that credit card bill hits, they just pivot to the next shiny object. Or, they burn themselves out chasing impossible, pipe-dream goals. Even the ultra-wealthy fall into this trap—someone might have $100 million in the bank, but they’re already obsessing over how to hit $200 million. I’m just looking at the broader principle here; you can find examples of this pattern everywhere you look if you know where to peek. Of course, there’s always that group of conscious people driven by pure humanism. They've always been around, and hopefully, we'll see more of them.

Sandra Morales said:👍
In a sense, you make a fair point. I am uncertain, however, if you are speaking from personal experience regarding having unlimited wealth, or if this is simply your general philosophy.

If one reflects deeply enough, a wealthy individual eventually realizes that their capital holds little intrinsic value. We see this today with various Hollywood stars and pop artists who, despite being extremely well-off, suffer from depression. While not all depression stems from a lack of spiritual life, I believe many of these individuals realize there is "something more" to existence through such struggles. Of course, I am generalizing here, and that is not always the case.

What such a person typically does—and finds easiest—is pay a "guru" to teach them the secrets of life. Some might claim they wouldn't, but let's be realistic: if I had as much money as I wanted, I would certainly find myself attending the most expensive spiritual seminars available.
I am not questioning their desire for knowledge; rather, I suspect that someone accustomed to handing out money still retains the habit of "paying for a service" instead of "working for a service."
To my mind, that is a flawed concept because money truly possesses no value, especially to them.

If we simplify the idea: suppose this wealthy person loves driving their Lamborghini at 150 mph on a specific highway. That is a passion. They also enjoy the money they possess.

But if you asked them, would they rather give up a portion of their wealth or the experience of driving that Lamborghini at 140 mph? Personally, I believe they would surrender the cash before they would ever give up the thrill of the drive.

Similarly, I believe that to receive something, one must first give. If you give away something that holds no personal value—money, for instance, which you view as trivial because you have plenty—then the act won't feel significant since you didn't work hard for it. However, if someone sacrifices something precious—an experience, in this case—they will perceive its value as much greater because they gave more of themselves. Eventually, they may realize that the value of driving a Lamborghini isn't inherently better or worse than riding a bicycle, even if a Lamborghini is certainly not a bicycle.
I hope this clarifies my perspective to some extent.

I had never viewed religion from that angle, but it makes sense. Thank you for sharing that. 🙂
Living.

I don't think you're generalizing.

In about 99% of cases, when people actually experience true spiritual growth and personal evolution, they don't just magically find peace. It usually starts by slamming headfirst into every external wall in their path. They have to hit those limits hard enough to break through. Once someone is truly broken down like that, they’re left with no choice but to look inward—unless, of course, they're a fool. And honestly? There's no helping a fool.

Look, there are plenty of people who dive into these "alternative" trends just because they're bored, chasing a fad, or looking for some quick hit of self-validation. For them, it’s just a phase—they obsess over it for a minute and then move on to the next shiny object. But let's be real: that's a world away from the actual spirituality that sits quietly deep within all of us.

Sandra Morales said:👍
In a sense, you make a fair point. I am uncertain, however, if you are speaking from personal experience regarding having unlimited wealth, or if this is simply your general philosophy.

If one reflects deeply enough, a wealthy individual eventually realizes that their capital holds little intrinsic value. We see this today with various Hollywood stars and pop artists who, despite being extremely well-off, suffer from depression. While not all depression stems from a lack of spiritual life, I believe many of these individuals realize there is "something more" to existence through such struggles. Of course, I am generalizing here, and that is not always the case.

What such a person typically does—and finds easiest—is pay a "guru" to teach them the secrets of life. Some might claim they wouldn't, but let's be realistic: if I had as much money as I wanted, I would certainly find myself attending the most expensive spiritual seminars available.
I am not questioning their desire for knowledge; rather, I suspect that someone accustomed to handing out money still retains the habit of "paying for a service" instead of "working for a service."
To my mind, that is a flawed concept because money truly possesses no value, especially to them.

If we simplify the idea: suppose this wealthy person loves driving their Lamborghini at 150 mph on a specific highway. That is a passion. They also enjoy the money they possess.

But if you asked them, would they rather give up a portion of their wealth or the experience of driving that Lamborghini at 140 mph? Personally, I believe they would surrender the cash before they would ever give up the thrill of the drive.

Similarly, I believe that to receive something, one must first give. If you give away something that holds no personal value—money, for instance, which you view as trivial because you have plenty—then the act won't feel significant since you didn't work hard for it. However, if someone sacrifices something precious—an experience, in this case—they will perceive its value as much greater because they gave more of themselves. Eventually, they may realize that the value of driving a Lamborghini isn't inherently better or worse than riding a bicycle, even if a Lamborghini is certainly not a bicycle.
I hope this clarifies my perspective to some extent.

I had never viewed religion from that angle, but it makes sense. Thank you for sharing that. 🙂
Living.

You can't buy spirituality. Even though you pay for access in all sorts of places, you aren't actually buying anyone's soul or enlightenment.🙂

Everyone has to do the heavy lifting themselves, regardless of what they do or who they hang out with. Even if you're standing right next to a Perfect Teacher and have every resource imaginable to grow, you still have to put in the work and cultivate the openness required to actually receive that help.

Books, seminars, courses, lectures—these are usually run by people who haven't reached enlightenment. In rare cases, they might be highly evolved individuals who can be incredibly helpful to those ready to listen. It's even rarer to encounter truly enlightened beings. Most people struggle to recognize them because they're too focused on the surface level, trying to fix their immediate problems rather than letting go of them entirely. All of this should serve as inspiration to deepen one's spiritual orientation through practical experience; if you're just collecting theories like trivia, then none of it really matters.