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Stages of Spiritual Growth

Started by Zachary Green2 · · 👁 5 views · 58 replies

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Participants Zachary Green2Sarah Gray11James Cruz6Daniel Thomas26swiftcobra15rowdydriver52briskrider8Elizabeth Miller8Jack Harris3Bradley Fisher20Scott Nguyen2Olivia Barnes2Rachel Gonzalez7steelstag4hiddenpuma75Grace Collins2Ryan Wilson2Kenneth Ward8AJamie Newman40John Walker74jadewalker25bluemason3
Zachary Green2 Zachary Green2 NewcomerOP
7 messages
joined Dec 2002
#1 ·
Level 1—chaotic/antisocial.

I guess we're looking at the bottom tier, which accounts for roughly 20% of the population.
Characteristics:
A lack of spirituality, a lack of morality, and a total absence of empathy.
People don't seem to give much thought to the existence of God or the spiritual realm, nor do they particularly care to.
Relationships with others are driven exclusively by one's own selfish interests. They are built on manipulation—something people are often quite efficient at concealing.
They’re chaotic, I suppose, mostly because a total lack of morality leaves them drifting on nothing but raw impulse.
They frequently find themselves in compromising situations, spiraling into criminality, sexual deviancy, assault, or even murder. I guess the path toward misconduct remains wide open for them, since a total lack of morality or conscience does nothing to deter their actions.
I suppose some people at this stage of spiritual development actually manage to achieve self-discipline, though they mostly just use it as a tool to further their own personal ambitions.
They’re completely unscrupulous when it comes to their own ambitions; I suppose they'll do just about anything to reach their goals.
This frequently allows individuals to climb the ladder toward positions of power and personal prestige, which I guess is why so many people eventually become household names.
People at Level 1 occasionally face the chaos within their own being. It’s a painful experience, and I suppose they might try to simply reject it, though if they fail to process it, it can even lead to suicide. Sometimes, however, this friction serves as a catalyst for spiritual growth toward Level 2. You see this quite often with notorious criminals who, while serving time in prison, encounter a religion and suddenly transform into fanatic believers.

Level 2—formal institutional.

This represents the next level of spiritual development.
It’s been labeled institutional because people at this level tend to have a deep-seated attachment to whatever authority oversees them. For some, that might be an entity like the U.S. military, though for most, I suppose it's more likely a formal religion.
People at this level tend to cling tightly to their religious institutions. I suppose it provides them with a sense of stability, preventing the kind of chaotic existence seen in those living at Level 1.
Most of their moral values seem to be heavily shaped by their religious beliefs, I suppose.
People at this level tend to rely heavily on religious institutions for protection and oversight. They seem particularly attached to the outward formalities of faith—things like rituals, ceremonies, scheduled prayers, specific rites, and the constant reading of "sacred" texts. I guess that's just how they operate.
They regularly believe that God will punish those who fail to respect the commandments and rituals prescribed by their religion—their "divine laws," if you will.
They seem convinced that only believers within their specific faith will make it into heaven, while everyone else is destined for purgatory or hell.
People operating at Level 2 are exceptionally sensitive to any shifts in religious structure. This is because they rely entirely on that specific framework to escape chaos. Consequently, most attempts at religious reform inevitably lead to schisms. Because of this pattern, many religions have failed to evolve for centuries, leaving them stuck at lower stages of civilizational development.
Level 2 visions of God are honestly quite childish. People constantly imagine God as some entity sitting high above in the clouds, wielding massive power and waiting for the opportunity to punish them for their sins.

It is a vision of God acting as a Master and a policeman—a figure that Level 2 individuals feel compelled to obey out of sheer fear. In this mindset, there is very little understanding of the other half of the divine: the part that resides within us, or the divinity present in the human spirit. I suppose this kind of tyrant-like God is actually necessary for people at Level 2 to achieve any spiritual growth. That specific fear of God keeps them from sliding into sin and immorality, while their religion provides the basic framework for distinguishing right from wrong.
Apparently, they insist on viewing God through a strictly masculine lens. It seems they struggle to conceive of a universal entity, let alone a female one, God forbid.

Level 3—Skeptical/Individualist

I suppose people at this level tend to distance themselves from formal religion, viewing it instead through a lens of critical reasoning and logic.
They seem to operate under their own private moral code, one that isn't particularly influenced by religion, I guess.
They place unconditional faith in the power of reason, trusting only what can be truly perceived and proven. Consequently, I suppose they generally don't even subscribe to the existence of God.
- They frequently assume that believing in God is a regressive relic of the past, suggesting that believers are somehow intellectually inferior to them.
- They rely strictly on scientific explanations for life and the cosmos, yet they rarely consider the possibility that there might be parts of the universe entirely beyond human comprehension.

Level 4: Rational Gnostic

This represents the highest stage of spiritual development.
People at this level share certain traits with those at Level 3—specifically, a distance from organized religion, a tendency toward critical inquiry, and a well-defined moral framework.
However, what distinguishes them from Level 3 individuals is as follows:
- They believe in the power of reason and objective knowledge, though certainly not unconditionally.
- Those at Level 4 maintain open minds; they don't reject anything out of hand. No matter how improbable a phenomenon may seem, they analyze it from multiple perspectives without prejudice before reaching a conclusion.
- Their capacity for open, rational thought leads them to insights that remain incomprehensible to those at Level 3, particularly regarding the potential to perceive the spiritual realm and God. It is quite common for Level 3 individuals to wonder how someone so educated and intelligent could possibly believe in such things.
- People at Level 4 are acutely aware of the inherent limitations of human sensory perception. Rather than dismissing scientific findings, they typically integrate them with their own spiritual insights, creating a worldview that feels like one cohesive, meaningful whole.
- The vision of God held by those at Level 4 bears almost no resemblance to the view held by Level 2: God is not some separate entity or a master to whom one must submit. Instead, God is an abstract essence—the all-pervading spirit of the universe, the order and meaning of existence, a part of which resides within us as well.
- Even though Level 4 individuals aren't tied to religious institutions, they may still choose to follow a specific formal religion if they feel it aligns most closely with the Eternal Truth.

From the book by Scott S. Peck: “The Road Less Traveled”
Sarah Gray11 Sarah Gray11 Newcomer
3 messages
joined Dec 2002
#2 ·
I dig this breakdown, but let’s be real—what percentage of people actually fit into these neat little boxes? No matter how clever you think you're being by categorizing people into "higher" vs. "lower" spiritual levels, it still feels way too broad.

By this logic, I’m somewhere stuck between level 3 and level 4, though I don't fully vibe with either group.
Where do you land? (Distant Shore)
Zachary Green2 Zachary Green2 NewcomerOP
7 messages
joined Dec 2002
#3 ·
Spiritual development levels aren't strictly defined; there are naturally transitional stages involved. I suppose you could say roughly 60% of people fall into distinct categories, while the remaining 40% occupy those middle ground phases.

Where would I place myself? Maybe two or three years ago, I would have categorized myself at level 3—back when I was an atheist—but today, I think I could reasonably claim level 4.

Based on the book mentioned, and certainly according to my own convictions, the whole point of life is spiritual growth.
One might view this development as a process of constant refinement, involving the acquisition of new insights along with ethical and moral principles.

We are all placed within specific life circumstances so that, through certain events and situations, we can gain new experiences and evolve spiritually.

Ultimately, the goal of spiritual growth is to realize Eternal Truth and move closer to the perfection of God by overcoming the ego.
James Cruz6 James Cruz6 Member
38 messages
joined Dec 2002
#4 ·
I honestly can't bring myself to agree with any of those points at all.

I consider myself to be at a Level V, which I personally call the Lavender level.😁

It’s not about rejecting reason as the sole guiding force in our existence, though it remains vital...
Rather, it's about not strictly adhering to organized institutions—especially religious ones—that try to dictate a specific set of values; instead, I prefer a kind of syncretism, blending my own sense of morality, dharma, truth, and all those other spiritual perspectives we happen to gather along the journey of our own lived experience...
And of course, the whole thing is seasoned by what I believe is the most noble pursuit of all: recognizing Unity within diversity through that sublime essence we call Love.😁
😁
Daniel Thomas26 Daniel Thomas26 Newcomer
1 message
joined Dec 2002
#5 ·
A beautiful way to look at it.
That was an incredibly sharp and well-reasoned breakdown of the "Levels."

Exactly!
It’s all about that person on level three—no theoretical nonsense here—actually finding common ground with those on level one or five.

And that’s the bottom line!!!!!

What is humanity going to do... DESTROY ITSELF... THE END
swiftcobra15 swiftcobra15 Regular
305 messages
joined Dec 2002
#6 ·
We should probably take Heisenberg's uncertainty principle into account here.

Zachary Green2 said:Level 4—intellectual Gnostic.

This represents the absolute peak of spiritual growth.

From the book *The Road Less Traveled* by Scott S. Peck:

I have a lot of respect for what the gentleman said, but you really shouldn't have picked the worst possible interpretation of his writing. Any kind of classification is somewhat arbitrary at best, and once you try to attach numbers to it, you end up with something like
"Mara walks through sixty percent of the unhappy villagers."

Besides, I'm not quite sure what "intellect" is doing at Level 4. Surely it involves reasoning?😕
rowdydriver52 rowdydriver52 Member
38 messages
joined Dec 2002
#7 ·
That’s an interesting way to break it down...
But I think there’s actually one more level to this whole progression.
Those first four stages you mentioned—they really just describe the evolution of the ego...
By the fourth stage, a person is supposed to become their own "spiritual ego"—essentially the very thing they used to navigate those initial four steps...
And then, presumably, you have to let that go too. It's just another intellectual construct, really—a transitional phase before moving toward something else entirely. Something characterized by acting and walking the Path based on a completely different set of principles.
Once you start operating from that second principle, it begins to pull the seeker away from everything their mind, logic, or conscious intellect might normally cling to in this reality...

We could call it a Gnostic level...
Though, I suppose there's no point in getting hung up on specific labels or rigid divisions...
Call it whatever you like...
For instance...
Mara walks through the countryside, lightning flashing above her, feeling perfectly at peace...
briskrider8 briskrider8 Member
37 messages
joined Dec 2002
#8 ·
Hey, I actually held that book in my hands once!
I didn't sit down and read the whole thing from cover to cover, but I did dive deep into this specific chapter regarding levels—I just happened to find the book while hanging out at a buddy's place...
And honestly, those levels were a massive eye-opener for me.😉

But, if my memory serves me right, the author goes on to explain how some people can end up with their head stuck in one level, their hands in another, and their feet somewhere else entirely...

(Forgive me if my memory is a bit fuzzy on the details😳 )
Zachary Green2 Zachary Green2 NewcomerOP
7 messages
joined Dec 2002
#9 ·
It seems to me that Level 2 is the easiest group to decipher:

Here is my assessment of which users fall into Level 2:

Lukić (though he could easily be Level 1 😁), the Lukićevac crowd (doshljak, znanac, passenger, submarine, and the rest), krschanin, Gorčin, Shady, Adura, and the other Muslims.
As for Adura, there might be some hope for upward mobility; I get the impression he's constantly battling between logic and rigid religious dogma.

Baphomet is most likely at Level 3, while semargl would be my top candidate for Level 4.

I have no idea where I would even place pesek 😕 😕
Elizabeth Miller8 Elizabeth Miller8 Active Member
63 messages
joined Dec 2002
#10 ·
Personally, I am of the opinion that this fourth level isn't actually the final stage of the journey.

In my view, the true ultimate level is reached only when an individual achieves total liberation from all worldly attachments. At that point, they finally possess the genuine choice to either transcend this realm entirely or return to Earth in the capacity of our Savior.

So, if anyone here actually manages to ascend to that particular level, do be a dear and let me know.😉
Jack Harris3 Jack Harris3 Regular
451 messages
joined Dec 2002
#11 ·
Just toss it in a bag and dump it in the creek. 😁🙂

And hey, if four is the absolute limit, then I’m definitely a five... 😁😁😁
Bradley Fisher20 Bradley Fisher20 Active Member
142 messages
joined May 2005
#12 ·
Zachary Green2, I’m telling you, you aren't gonna find anyone here who actually shaves down to a 4. Not a chance. Just like Jack Harris3, I’m at least a 5 🙂
Jack Harris3 Jack Harris3 Regular
451 messages
joined Dec 2002
#13 ·
Whoa there, slow down! You’ve got to actually write a post first... We aren't exactly taking your word for anything right out of the gate, especially since you're coming straight from the New York Times. 😁🙂
Scott Nguyen2 Scott Nguyen2 Member
18 messages
joined Dec 2002
#14 ·
Man, Hrvoje Vukčić Americanć, you really have some next-level subjective standards when it comes to judging people's character...
"The very court you judge by will be the one that judges you," right?
🙂

I don't have any "dogmas"—though, wait, would calling my own stance an "absolute" make it a dogma? Someone might wonder about that... but honestly, that's just playing word games... I just "feel" it deeply in my gut. When it comes to faith, it isn't just about what you believe—it’s about how you actually live your life. That’s my private business, my soul, and the people who actually know me get that. Here, we're just "discussing" certain themes.
Jack Harris3 Jack Harris3 Regular
451 messages
joined Dec 2002
#15 ·
Someone already mentioned that these levels are just way too broad. And honestly, I’m inclined to agree.
It’s actually pretty hard to categorize this stuff at all. To me, it feels a lot like intelligence... some people just start with better advantages, and even so, they'll still end up learning from someone else eventually...
Olivia Barnes2 Olivia Barnes2 Newcomer
1 message
joined Dec 2002
#16 ·
Hrvoje Vukčić Americanć!
You are wallowing in a mire of sin and human delusion, and frankly, it’s pathetic. You need to repent—if you even have any time left to do so.
Zachary Green2 Zachary Green2 NewcomerOP
7 messages
joined Dec 2002
#17 ·
Is this guy joking, or does 😕 actually believe what he's saying?

He’s probably just one of those Level 2 fanatics.

Scott Nguyen2:

"The judgment you pass will be the judgment you receive."

I certainly hope so.😁 😁

By the way, Scott Nguyen2, I’m going to ask you a quick question to determine if you’re a dogmatic person or a reasonable one (I think I already know the answer based on your posts, but I suppose I should ask just to be sure):

1. Do you truly believe the entire Quran is the word of God received by Muhammad from God (including Sharia laws)?

If the answer is yes, then you are definitely at Level 2. That means instead of 72 virgins waiting for you after death, you'll likely face 72 new reincarnations until you finally wake up and achieve some spiritual progress.
Scott Nguyen2 Scott Nguyen2 Member
18 messages
joined Dec 2002
#18 ·
1. Do you honestly believe the entire Quran is the word of God received by Muhammad from God (including Sharia laws)?

First off—and this is huge—I make a massive distinction between the core Quranic message and the countless interpretations of Sharia law. Seriously, there are so many different schools of thought when it comes to interpreting that law... they aren't even the same thing!

The Quran is basically guidance sent to the Messenger of God, Muhammad, to confirm the truth of previous books. It recognizes all of God's former Messengers without making any distinctions between them, which leads people to perform good deeds as a way to prove their faith in God. Plus, it constantly asks people to actually *think*—to look at the signs of God in nature, in science, and everything else out there...
It literally "challenges" anyone who doubts that the Quran is God's word to try and produce a Book just like it (without calling upon God as a witness, obviously), or to find a single contradiction within its pages.

The Quran is a Message and a Guide for humanity so we don't lose our way—it was sent to Muhammad, it's been preserved, and it's just packed with wisdom.

So, yeah, stop comparing apples to oranges here. There are wildly different interpretations of the Quran versus Sharia law, and they are definitely not identical.

And if you're asking me about the rules laid out in the Quran regarding daily life? They're perfectly fine and clear, and they bring real good to the people who actually follow them.
Rachel Gonzalez7 Rachel Gonzalez7 Member
19 messages
joined Dec 2002
#19 ·
Zachary Green2, if you actually lived up to the standards you claim to have, you wouldn't be dividing people—you'd be bringing them together.

Luckily for the rest of us, you aren't.

Oh, and one more thing!
Actually...
It seems you're lacking a bit of class.
Well, not you, specifically.
More like whoever you copied this from.

By the way, where are all those categories of yours?

Do they even exist?

And where would you even land on them?

Is it even possible for you to show up under these Themes?
Rachel Gonzalez7 Rachel Gonzalez7 Member
19 messages
joined Dec 2002
#20 ·
Audra said:If you’re asking about the rules laid out in the Quran regarding how to live, they’re perfectly sound. They bring good to those who actually follow them.

Audra, the guidelines in the Holy Quran benefit people when they apply them to themselves.

Trying to force any rule onto someone else is just wrong.

So, I really hope you know the difference between the penal code and spiritual guidance.
You have to distinguish the Holy Quran from Sharia—not to mention some arbitrary local law.
They aren't the same thing.
Regardless of how you interpret them.
We aren't talking about different takes on the same idea; we're talking about entirely different things.
The Holy Quran was a message for humanity.
A long time ago.
For the mindset, knowledge, and behavior of people back then.
Just like the Bible.

Plenty of messages in the Holy Quran are still relevant today.

Which means it isn't time for a New Book yet.

But it will come.

Once people finally grasp the Previous Books.

Not just the ones religions kill each other over...

But all the ones people actually live by.

And if—or when—people truly understand the Previous Books, they won't need an alien to descend and reveal anything.
They'll write the New Book themselves.

But before that happens, they'll live it.

All the Previous Books described life as it was and gave instructions on how to survive it.
So that those who practiced law acceptance could endure.

The New Book will describe life as it ought to be lived, while it is being lived.
So that all creatures—not just humans or divine beings—can truly exist.
Not just survive, but thrive.

Because the death of one being isn't an end.
It's a continuation in another.

Oh, right.
That doesn't even have to be a human.
And why would it have to be?

The New Book is being created.

And right now, humans are the ones writing it.

Humans, for the time being.

Just like they did with the Previous ones.

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