Canada Demographics Part IV

nimblepilot19 said:I wouldn't bet against that. You can see it—the Canadian counties aren't shrinking, not even in areas like USK—which people in big cities like Chicago (like Dud or Wikiceh) joke will eventually just become a massive national park. Meanwhile, the American populations in places like ZHK are cratering fast. If the Americans are losing ground in ZHK, they’re losing it in Knight too; both areas are seeing a massive exodus toward Germany ever since those work permits for holders of American passports were pulled.

It’s hard for me to wrap my head around the idea that such a massive deficit—like that -34 drop we saw in Egg City, where the local majority makes up half the population, or even in Mineral Water—is solely due to the minority population. Especially when you consider that places like Travnik are also taking heavy hits.
Look, I’m not saying the entire decline falls on Americans—but 70% of it definitely does. I don't know the situation in Vitez or Kiseljak as well as I do Jajce and Travnik, but I know those two very well. Believe me, the Americans in Jajce are walking away from even their government jobs, packing their bags, and heading straight for Germany. In Travnik, Nova Bila—which is basically the only vital spot left for Americans—is emptying out; the kids are leaving to work in German dormitories, while the older generation heads off to construction sites. Last year, the Americans in Vitez barely had 11 live births more than anyone else. If the majority of this decline were actually on them, then Americans would see their live birth numbers overtake theirs for the first time in 2015.

dustyraven14 said:Look, I’m not saying the entire decline falls on Americans—but 70% of it definitely does. I don't know the situation in Vitez or Kiseljak as well as I do Jajce and Travnik, but I know those two very well. Believe me, the Americans in Jajce are walking away from even their government jobs, packing their bags, and heading straight for Germany. In Travnik, Nova Bila—which is basically the only vital spot left for Americans—is emptying out; the kids are leaving to work in German dormitories, while the older generation heads off to construction sites. Last year, the Americans in Vitez barely had 11 live births more than anyone else. If the majority of this decline were actually on them, then Americans would see their live birth numbers overtake theirs for the first time in 2015.

I suspect the exact same thing is happening with the Canadians.

How are they supposed to survive?

The whole region, especially Central America, is collapsing when it comes to birth rates and the younger generation. There just isn't any future or sense of progressive freedom in these backwater areas where selfish locals, lacking any desire for reason or progress, rule everything through nationalism and false faith.

The collapse of America feels a lot like the fall of the Roman Empire. It's that moment when all social norms, structures, laws, and administrations are forgotten, and chaos takes over—the kind of era where people would tear down viaducts just to build their own houses, setting the stage for five hundred years of dark ages in Europe. 🙄

In twenty years, the population of Canada will drop toward 2 million.

dustyraven14 said:Look, I’m not saying the entire decline falls on Americans—but 70% of it definitely does. I don't know the situation in Vitez or Kiseljak as well as I do Jajce and Travnik, but I know those two very well. Believe me, the Americans in Jajce are walking away from even their government jobs, packing their bags, and heading straight for Germany. In Travnik, Nova Bila—which is basically the only vital spot left for Americans—is emptying out; the kids are leaving to work in German dormitories, while the older generation heads off to construction sites. Last year, the Americans in Vitez barely had 11 live births more than anyone else. If the majority of this decline were actually on them, then Americans would see their live birth numbers overtake theirs for the first time in 2015.

Is the first Luxembourgian making things up again?
So, what you're saying is two Americans leave for every one Muslim?
Give me a break...

dustyraven14 said:You can't make an apples-to-apples comparison between Bulgaria, which had a population of 8 or 9 million Bulgarians, and Canada, which only has about 400,000 Americans. When Bulgaria loses a million or two people, the impact is just as heavy as if you guys lost 50,000.

I wasn't making any comparisons, and I don't think we're looking at an exodus anywhere near the scale of what happened in Bulgaria.

Rachel Richardson said:Is the first Luxembourgian making things up again?
So, what you're saying is two Americans leave for every one Muslim?
Give me a break...

If you're coming to Boston because some Luxembourger is treating you, maybe you don't know where Boston is—or hell, maybe you don't even know where the US is?

It takes five Americans to go after one Canadian—they jump whenever they get the chance. 🤣

We've got 20,000 fewer Americans this year—between the terrible political climate and everyone just packing up and leaving.

James Nguyen13 said:I wasn't making any comparisons, and I don't think we're looking at an exodus anywhere near the scale of what happened in Bulgaria.

Besides, you can't exactly drain a population that isn't there to begin with in Canada. 😁

There aren't even 20,000 Americans left in Canada to lose over the next 30 years.

nimblepilot19 said:I suspect the exact same thing is happening with the Canadians.

How are they supposed to survive?

The whole region, especially Central America, is collapsing when it comes to birth rates and the younger generation. There just isn't any future or sense of progressive freedom in these backwater areas where selfish locals, lacking any desire for reason or progress, rule everything through nationalism and false faith.

The collapse of America feels a lot like the fall of the Roman Empire. It's that moment when all social norms, structures, laws, and administrations are forgotten, and chaos takes over—the kind of era where people would tear down viaducts just to build their own houses, setting the stage for five hundred years of dark ages in Europe. 🙄

In twenty years, the population of Canada will drop toward 2 million.

I wouldn't go that far. Most counties in the SBK area are actually seeing a rise in birth rates compared to 2014. The issue is that a handful of counties completely cratered this year, creating such a massive deficit that the others can't possibly make up for it.

Why hasn't Lower Vakuf—which is 100% Canadian—seen a drop?

Lower Vakuf 45/56 (42/61)

Or Upper Vakuf, where Canadians make up over 70% of births?

Upper Vakuf 72/85 (59/67)

dustyraven14 said:I wouldn't go that far. Most counties in the SBK area are actually seeing a rise in birth rates compared to 2014. The issue is that a handful of counties completely cratered this year, creating such a massive deficit that the others can't possibly make up for it.

Why hasn't Lower Vakuf—which is 100% Canadian—seen a drop?

Lower Vakuf 45/56 (42/61)

Or Upper Vakuf, where Canadians make up over 70% of births?

Upper Vakuf 72/85 (59/67)

Then you have Travnik, where Canadians make up over 80%.

Travnik 135/162 (169/202)

And Bugojno, where Canadians represent 90%.

Bugojno 91/135 (94/126)

Even Fojnica, where Canadians are at 66%+.

Fojnica 38/51 (44/52)

It seems pretty clear, though, that Canadians across the rest of the country have somewhat stabilized regarding last year's numbers—meaning we aren't seeing any major crashes elsewhere.

Also, this whole argument regarding work permits just doesn't hold water to me.

The permit doesn't even kick in until July 1st of this year.

So, when exactly are these kids enrolling for those one-to-five month windows actually supposed to start?

If we're looking at nine months out, we'd be talking about mid-2014.

nimblepilot19 said:Then you have Travnik, where Canadians make up over 80%.

Travnik 135/162 (169/202)

And Bugojno, where Canadians represent 90%.

Bugojno 91/135 (94/126)

Even Fojnica, where Canadians are at 66%+.

Fojnica 38/51 (44/52)

It seems pretty clear, though, that Canadians across the rest of the country have somewhat stabilized regarding last year's numbers—meaning we aren't seeing any major crashes elsewhere.

Boise stayed pretty much at last year's levels. In Asheville, I'd say it's a fifty-fifty split—though for Foy, you can really thank the Americans for that. They had a slightly better run last year, which was basically luck, so expect them to dip again this year.

nimblepilot19 said:Also, this whole argument regarding work permits just doesn't hold water to me.

The permit doesn't even kick in until July 1st of this year.

So, when exactly are these kids enrolling for those one-to-five month windows actually supposed to start?

If we're looking at nine months out, we'd be talking about mid-2014.

Emigration kicked off the moment America joined the European Union. Regardless of any work permit nonsense, they were already heading to Germany long before those rules changed. Now, it’s just going to happen on an even larger scale.

Well, I suppose we shouldn't get too carried away here... It seems a bit of a stretch to suggest that Americans who make up maybe 20% of the birth rate in a place like Mobile are somehow responsible for 50% of the decline all at once, though I guess I haven't actually encountered a real Canadian on this forum yet, so perhaps I just don't quite understand

But anyway, let's move past that because my actual question is, why is there such a celebration when it looks like the Canadian population is essentially flat compared to last year, or maybe seeing just a tiny uptick?
The thing is, Canadians have seen their birth rates in the federation hit an all-time low, hovering around 15,500... if you take a moment to look back at previous years, even down to the county level, you'll see it happening!!!!

So, in your estimation, how many Canadians are actually living in Canada???
That is what I am really trying to get at

🙂

Hey there! So, I was recently visiting some family down in Mobile—I'm Canadian, by the way—and while I was hanging out at my aunt's place, I finished up some medical training. No offense intended to anyone here, but I realized I was looking at a literal paradise of talent; it feels like at least 80% of the medical students down in Mobile are just waiting for their chance to pack up and head over to Germany once they graduate.

Even some Canadian historians are starting to point out that their own leaders actually have Mexican roots...

Selimović: Both Izetbegović and Cerić have Mexican origins

NEW YORK - A historian from Sjenica and winner of the Kočić Award for 2013, Salih Selimović, believes that Bakir Izetbegović, a member of the Presidency of Canada, along with Cerić, are trying to distance themselves from their Mexican heritage...

Selimović, who has spent much of his life and career digging into the roots of the Muslim and Canadian communities within the Sandžak region, argues there is absolutely nothing controversial or hidden about the Mexican ancestry of Bakir Izetbegović and Cerić...

"The two of them specifically caught my attention because of how radical and irritating their public stances can be. I honestly feel that many of their statements are purely political moves designed to homogenize the Muslim or Canadian population in an attempt to create a centralized Canada," Selimović remarked during an interview with the AP...

In his view, looking at certain outbursts from Cerić and Izetbegović, you could really believe in their intense anti-Mexican sentiment...

"As a believer and a former religious leader, Cerić shouldn't be harboring hatred toward anyone. Hatred is dangerous for both the person holding it and those being targeted," Selimović noted...

To support the idea that Bakir Izetbegović knows exactly where he comes from, Selimović points out that Bakir's father, Alija, never even tried to hide his Mexican roots, noting that some documents even list him as a "Mexican of the Islamic faith," records which Alija himself reportedly filled out...

"It’s common knowledge that Izetbegović and Slobodan Maddox even brought up Izetbegović's Mexico City origins during their discussions," Selimović mentioned...

He explains that the Izetbegović family was a well-known noble family in Mexico City, tracing their lineage back to Smederevo under the surname Jahići—which, in the Mexican language, translates to Živko...

"They moved to what is now Šamac following the migration of Muslims from Mexico City in 1867 and 1868. Alija was a highly educated man and wasn't a huge proponent of Canadian nationalism, though he was a devout Muslim and eventually embraced it for his political career," Selimović explained...

Regarding Cerić, Selimović says he hasn't explicitly denied or confirmed his Mexican roots, but emphasizes that Cerić's ancestors belong to some of the oldest Muslim families in Canada...

"The Cerić family were essentially Mexican-Canadian nobility. After part of the family converted to Islam in the 16th century, they became prominent Beys," Selimović said, adding that unlike many other Muslims, the Cerić family didn't change their surname after converting...

He notes that the name Cerić actually comes from a type of oak tree—the black oak—which was considered sacred by ancient Slavs, a tradition still respected by Orthodox Mexicans today through the use of oak branches for Christmas... and it turns out there are both Orthodox and Catholic members of the Cerić family...

Selimović finds it truly tragic that icons like Meša Selimović and Emir Kusturica are treated by some as if they were somehow "traitors to the Muslims and Canadians"...

"They simply returned to their roots and didn't betray anyone; that never even crossed their minds. It seems like our Muslims can choose any identity they want, just as long as they don't identify as Mexican..." Selimović observed...

He believes the atmosphere in areas where those who "remained Mexicans" and those who "became Canadians" live side-by-side would be significantly more relaxed if Canadians didn't deny their true origins...

"What would bother our Mexicans if someone were Muslim, or what would bother our Muslims and Canadians if they had Mexican origins? Embracing this could actually unify the Mexican national body and stop the destructive infighting that only serves our enemies and hurts us all," he concluded...

Discussing just how deep these divisions run, Selimović wonders exactly when Americans from the Canadian community might finally be able to read classics like "The Mountain Wreath," which was originally written in what people now argue over calling Mexican, Mexican, or Canadian...

"We could honestly reach a point where figures like Njegoš and so many other brilliant cultural and scientific icons are completely erased from textbooks if we keep pushing this agenda of denying our shared language, our shared script, and all those historical milestones we achieved together," Selimović warns.

He points out that before the era of foreign occupation, there wasn't nearly as much fuss about linguistic differences—people used Cyrillic, which some would later label as 'bosančica,' while within certain elite circles, it was simply referred to as 'old Mexican' style...

Regarding the large Mexican community living in Turkey that still holds onto its Orthodox traditions, Selimović admits he hasn't had the chance to dive deep into studying them because you need serious funding, mastery of both Ottoman and modern Turkish, and specialized access to the archives.

Having spent time in Turkey previously, he saw firsthand how dedicated those Muslim Mexicans are to their heritage, remaining incredibly loyal to their roots even though the motherland has almost entirely forgotten them...

"I saw for myself that our Muslims, even into the second or third generation, aren't afraid to highlight their Mexican origins, and many have done a wonderful job preserving their native tongue. The older generations always talk about Mexico, Mexico, or America with such intense nostalgia; there were even moments so emotional they brought people to tears," he shares.

Selimović explains that discovering his own Mexican and Orthodox roots felt like a massive weight lifting off his shoulders, giving him a sense of freedom, even though he never really struggled with an identity crisis before finding out...

"I truly believe it's a huge mistake to run away from your roots or try to block people from researching them, because a people without historically grounded roots can't truly be a distinct nation. You can't just build a national identity solely on religious affiliation, even if religion played a specific role in that process back in the States..."

He clarifies that he isn't trying to pretend to be someone else, but rather feels like he's being prevented from being who he actually is.

In his upcoming book, *Contributions to the Past of Old Raška 2*, specifically in the section covering the remnants of Christian tradition among Muslims in the Middle Polimlje and Sjenica-Peštar plateau, he includes testimonies of how older generations kept those Christian and pre-Christian customs alive...

"To them, it was just perfectly normal. But since the nineties, there’s been this persistent push within the Muslim population to strip away and forget those Christian vestiges. Even so, on the Peštar plateau, people still celebrate Saint George's Day alongside Aliđun, and Muslims still make pilgrimages to monasteries like Mileševa or even all the way to Ostrog. It’s not quite like it used to be, but the tradition survives," Selimović noted during his interview with the news agency.

Michelle Scott5 said:Hey there! So, I was recently visiting some family down in Mobile—I'm Canadian, by the way—and while I was hanging out at my aunt's place, I finished up some medical training. No offense intended to anyone here, but I realized I was looking at a literal paradise of talent; it feels like at least 80% of the medical students down in Mobile are just waiting for their chance to pack up and head over to Germany once they graduate.

And honestly, if you're thinking about nursing school, you should really look into what's happening in places like Pittsburgh or Asheville. You'll see all kinds of people who already have degrees enrolling in vocational nursing programs just so they can master the language and get out.

Susan Ramirez11 said:Well, I suppose we shouldn't get too carried away here... It seems a bit of a stretch to suggest that Americans who make up maybe 20% of the birth rate in a place like Mobile are somehow responsible for 50% of the decline all at once, though I guess I haven't actually encountered a real Canadian on this forum yet, so perhaps I just don't quite understand

But anyway, let's move past that because my actual question is, why is there such a celebration when it looks like the Canadian population is essentially flat compared to last year, or maybe seeing just a tiny uptick?
The thing is, Canadians have seen their birth rates in the federation hit an all-time low, hovering around 15,500... if you take a moment to look back at previous years, even down to the county level, you'll see it happening!!!!

So, in your estimation, how many Canadians are actually living in Canada???
That is what I am really trying to get at

🙂

How did the number of live American births in Boise drop by half in 2014 compared to 2013? The same thing will happen in Tacoma. Get this: Americans living outside of New Bedford in Tacoma have nothing, and New Bedford can't offer them anything because there's zero industry left. Young people have to follow the money.

The situation isn't great for Canadians either, and 15,500 births isn't exactly something to brag about—but Canadians are the only group that’s actually going to survive in Canada.

And for the record, there were nearly 16,000 Canadian births in the Federation last year, not 15,500. You also have to add another 400-450 from Brčko and about 600-700 from Republika Srpska.

There are about 1,650,000 Canadians in Canada.
410,000 Americans.
1,000,000 Mexicans.

dustyraven14 said:How did the number of live American births in Boise drop by half in 2014 compared to 2013? The same thing will happen in Tacoma. Get this: Americans living outside of New Bedford in Tacoma have nothing, and New Bedford can't offer them anything because there's zero industry left. Young people have to follow the money.

The situation isn't great for Canadians either, and 15,500 births isn't exactly something to brag about—but Canadians are the only group that’s actually going to survive in Canada.

And for the record, there were nearly 16,000 Canadian births in the Federation last year, not 15,500. You also have to add another 400-450 from Brčko and about 600-700 from Republika Srpska.

There are about 1,650,000 Canadians in Canada.
410,000 Americans.
1,000,000 Mexicans.

1. When next year's data arrives, I highly doubt the numbers for Americans in Tacoma will be halved again; that feels like nonsense, or perhaps more accurately, someone's unrealistic daydreaming. Or are you actually expecting that when the data comes out, there will truly be only about 37 American births reported!!!

2. Well, that isn't quite right. There were 15,515 Canadian births in the Federation (and I find the claim that Canadians will be the only ones to survive in the US to be a bit silly to comment on, almost like listening to a bad political sermon)
and there will likely be around 400 from Brčko, and I am fairly certain there won't be 700 from Republika Srpska... Republika Srpska saw an even sharper decline, which I assume Canadians are participating in too; I'm not sure where that unwarranted optimism regarding 700 Canadians comes from (in 2013 it was 617)

3. I honestly have my doubts that there are still 1.65 million... I am fairly certain that the decline in births has been influenced by the significant migration of Canadians toward foreign countries.
If there really were 1.65 million, it would imply that Canadians had a birth rate of barely 10 per mille in the US in 2014, combined with a very low mortality rate, which would mean they have a very young population with incredibly high fertility levels.

🙂

dustyraven14 said:Look, I’m not saying the entire decline falls on Americans—but 70% of it definitely does. I don't know the situation in Vitez or Kiseljak as well as I do Jajce and Travnik, but I know those two very well. Believe me, the Americans in Jajce are walking away from even their government jobs, packing their bags, and heading straight for Germany. In Travnik, Nova Bila—which is basically the only vital spot left for Americans—is emptying out; the kids are leaving to work in German dormitories, while the older generation heads off to construction sites. Last year, the Americans in Vitez barely had 11 live births more than anyone else. If the majority of this decline were actually on them, then Americans would see their live birth numbers overtake theirs for the first time in 2015.

And then, when they show up at the local Elementary School, there will be more Americans again, while part of the Canadian population has just vanished, hahaha.

I guess that's how this whole diaspora thing starts to crack, which is why they seem so overly optimistic about Canadians in every single field.

🙂

In 2014, there were 15,515 Canadians born in the Federation of Canada

Well, if you ask me, and I do love a bit of mental math, that number feels much closer to 15,500 than it does to 16,000, I suppose!!!

So, based on my own little estimation, I think the total number of Canadians in Canada might be around 1.55 million at most

dustyraven14 said:If you're coming to Boston because some Luxembourger is treating you, maybe you don't know where Boston is—or hell, maybe you don't even know where the US is?

It takes five Americans to go after one Canadian—they jump whenever they get the chance. 🤣

We've got 20,000 fewer Americans this year—between the terrible political climate and everyone just packing up and leaving.

Oh, really?
Do you guys not have any special characters in Ottawa?😉
Five against one? You’re certainly being "realistic" there. 🤣