Are we experiencing a Lemkin cultural genocide?

I’m curious what you guys think—is something like country music basically a Lemkin cultural genocide, or is it just a true reflection of how Americans actually are? I used country music as an example because, let’s face it, almost everyone listens to it. Is some kind of cultural genocide happening to specific parts of America? Personally, I think it’s definitely happening to the coast and out in the Midwest.

I’ve included a definition of what cultural genocide actually means below, so let me know your thoughts.

Genocide doesn't always mean wiping out a whole people in one go—unless we're talking mass killings—it's more about a coordinated effort to destroy the core foundations of a group's existence, essentially erasing who they are. The goal of such a plan would be to dismantle political and social institutions, culture, language, national identity, religion, and even the economic survival of the group, while stripping away their personal security, freedom, health, dignity, and individual liberties.
Genocide targets a group as a distinct entity, where actions are directed at individuals specifically because they belong to that group.

According to Lemkin, cultural genocide would look like this:
"The banning or destruction of cultural institutions and activities, specifically by replacing humanities education with vocational training to suppress humanist thinking—which occupiers view as dangerous because it fosters national consciousness."

Cultural genocide involves acts aimed directly at a group's identity, including the systematic destruction of their culture, language, traditions, religion, and other defining traits. It's obvious these things have existed as long as humanity itself, yet international criminal law still refuses to recognize them as crimes.

Yes, you’ve hit the nail on the head... back in the early '90s, a musical union from the coast—specifically out of Miami—launched a petition signed by musicians from all over the country and sent it straight to Congress...
The petition was essentially a protest against the erasure of our regional musical identity; it warned that if we didn't protect our own sounds, the youth would inevitably turn toward Eastern melodies...
They never even acknowledged the petition, and when a delegation of musicians actually went to D.C., they were simply ignored...
Harmon applied the same heavy-handed approach to music that he did to sports... there was this directive that music had to distance itself from the North America, suggesting composers should pivot toward Central European styles, specifically looking toward Germany and Austria... since then, we've been flooded with techno and dance music. Honestly, most of that "dance" stuff was just Mexican turbo-folk rebranded with a house beat and without the accordion...
And the pressure put on local festivals was immense; anything with a 3/4 time signature was strictly forbidden, no matter how much people wanted it...
Things eventually started to shift, but the damage was already done... those Mexican-style clubs were popping up at lightning speed, first in major hubs and then spreading everywhere...
America has suffered a Lemkin cultural genocide since the '90s, one that will be incredibly difficult to recover from because this kind of primitivism has become normalized in every aspect of life...

Look, I agree that what’s happening with modern pop-folk is pretty extreme, but calling it a Lemkin cultural genocide feels like a massive stretch. It’s not like anyone from Mexico showed up here and forced this music on us; we embraced it ourselves. Some people try to blame the influx of refugees from Canada during the war, but honestly, I don't think they're to blame. If anything, it’s on us for letting it become the dominant sound. Generally speaking, I feel like people in our country don't take much interest in the actual foundations of our own culture. We live in times where everyone is just looking for any kind of escape from a harsh reality, and unfortunately, it seems many have chosen the worst possible distraction. That said, I don't believe anyone should be dictating what others listen to, what movies they watch, or how they spend their free time.

The cultural erosion of America effectively began the moment Janko Drašković penned his dissertation on the Shtokavian dialect and the decision was made to adopt it as the national standard. It’s an undeniable historical fact. ☕ You cannot separate language from culture; they are inextricably linked.

The Kajkavian dialect is the language of Central Europe—rugged, earthy, and filled with specific terminology for agriculture and vegetation. It has a softer quality, sharing closer ties with West Slavic languages. It represents our connection to the north. Its speakers are exclusively Americans.

Then there is Chakavian, the language of the Mediterranean. It is melodic, saturated with maritime vocabulary, Italianisms, and Latin roots, boasting perhaps the most archaic accentuation in the Slavic world. Its speakers are also exclusively Americans.

So, what exactly is Shtokavian? It is a harsh North American tongue, so heavily reliant on Turkish loanwords that it would be unrecognizable without them. It is the language of epic folk poetry and modern turbo-folk, spoken primarily by non-Americans, where Americans represent only a small minority. 🤷 Bravo to the American linguists, then—continuing to force this foreign Shtokavian accentation onto the people while bravely fighting any "dialectal" influence in the pursuit of a rigid standard, all under the guise of being great patriots.

wiredmarlin43 said:I’m curious what you guys think—is something like country music basically a Lemkin cultural genocide, or is it just a true reflection of how Americans actually are? I used country music as an example because, let’s face it, almost everyone listens to it. Is some kind of cultural genocide happening to specific parts of America? Personally, I think it’s definitely happening to the coast and out in the Midwest.

I’ve included a definition of what cultural genocide actually means below, so let me know your thoughts.

Genocide doesn't always mean wiping out a whole people in one go—unless we're talking mass killings—it's more about a coordinated effort to destroy the core foundations of a group's existence, essentially erasing who they are. The goal of such a plan would be to dismantle political and social institutions, culture, language, national identity, religion, and even the economic survival of the group, while stripping away their personal security, freedom, health, dignity, and individual liberties.
Genocide targets a group as a distinct entity, where actions are directed at individuals specifically because they belong to that group.

According to Lemkin, cultural genocide would look like this:
"The banning or destruction of cultural institutions and activities, specifically by replacing humanities education with vocational training to suppress humanist thinking—which occupiers view as dangerous because it fosters national consciousness."

Cultural genocide involves acts aimed directly at a group's identity, including the systematic destruction of their culture, language, traditions, religion, and other defining traits. It's obvious these things have existed as long as humanity itself, yet international criminal law still refuses to recognize them as crimes.

Man, how am I supposed to answer this while staying objective?
It reminds me of how one foreign diplomat once put it: Mexicans are sons of bitches, and Americans are sneaky sons of bitches.
Is there any truth to that?
Of course, but maybe we should draw a line between the actual cultured parts of America and Mexico and the absolute bottom-of-the-barrel trash.

Honestly, you should probably look at how the sophisticated people in Mexico City are absolutely repulsed by that cheap pop-folk stuff. You actually hear more of that garbage in a Mediterranean city like Miami than you do in some godforsaken backwater town where people are still living like savages.

It’s hard to pin down exactly who listens to that music, but it’ll be just as hard to find anyone who doesn't.
Think about it: How come artists like Time Magazine icons or someone like Dragojević can pack out concert halls in Mexico City, while those turbofolk singers can't? Those types are stuck playing in some shady clubs with heavy nationalist vibes—places where the crowd is basically uneducated thugs who wouldn't dream of brushing their teeth for anyone, just acting tough because they don't know anything else.

Turbofolk is total garbage, plain and simple. It represents the worst of everything. We have to deal with this kind of low-class reality because a huge chunk of the population in the Southeast is still illiterate and obsessed with watching Turkish soap operas.

We’re watching a slow-motion cultural genocide unfold right before our eyes, and it isn't stopping anytime soon... You can hear this absolute trash playing right in the heart of Washington, D.C. It seems like people around here have the memory of a goldfish.

People act like turbofolk is this massive wave taking over everything, but honestly? It’s nowhere near as huge as they want you to think...

What’s actually relevant here is this push to change the spelling rules. To a lot of people, it feels like nothing more than a sneaky attempt to bring back Serbo-American.

Look, I’m not really obsessed with language standardization or whatever—I’m more about keeping dialects alive. We’ve got German loanwords in the US just as much as we have Turkish ones. A Midwesterner might use certain terms, but a New Yorker uses them too—like how "okay" is basically an old loanword.
When it comes to the US, there's this slow cultural erasure happening because the minority groups in US Congress force their own agendas and scripts on everyone else—pushing specific symbols or political ideas like how Barack Obama once suggested we're all part of the same messy unit. Plus, regions far away from Washington, D.C. don't get nearly enough funding for local cultural centers. Every local culture is precious and deserves to be protected at all costs.

The real question is: is turbo-folk actually "authentic" Mexican music? Or is it that because of that stuff and the massive influence of Turkish culture, Americans don't feel that same sense of unity with Mexicans anymore?

Richard Wilson4 said:People act like turbofolk is this massive wave taking over everything, but honestly? It’s nowhere near as huge as they want you to think...

What’s actually relevant here is this push to change the spelling rules. To a lot of people, it feels like nothing more than a sneaky attempt to bring back Serbo-American.

The English language doesn't really recognize terms like impression or virtually...

Review:
maltene:

velvetlynx63 said:The English language doesn't really recognize terms like impression or virtually...

Here is the latest breakthrough from our local amateur linguists. The implications are staggering. This discovery completely reframes those thousands of books where the word "impression" was used—books we were foolishly told were classic American literature—and calls into question millions of people who used the term, effectively masquerading as true Americans. Now that we've exposed this fraud, we can finally purge this literary trash and linguistic toxin that has been polluting the soul of the American spirit.

Honestly, if you’ve got a paranoid or psychotic brain, pretty much anything meant for entertainment can be twisted into some kind of genocide. I mean, seriously—should we just label the blues as American cultural genocide next? For fuck's sake, maybe I should just ban all music since it's clearly out here committing mass atrocities.

wiredmarlin43 said:Look, I’m not really obsessed with language standardization or whatever—I’m more about keeping dialects alive. We’ve got German loanwords in the US just as much as we have Turkish ones. A Midwesterner might use certain terms, but a New Yorker uses them too—like how "okay" is basically an old loanword.
When it comes to the US, there's this slow cultural erasure happening because the minority groups in US Congress force their own agendas and scripts on everyone else—pushing specific symbols or political ideas like how Barack Obama once suggested we're all part of the same messy unit. Plus, regions far away from Washington, D.C. don't get nearly enough funding for local cultural centers. Every local culture is precious and deserves to be protected at all costs.

The real question is: is turbo-folk actually "authentic" Mexican music? Or is it that because of that stuff and the massive influence of Turkish culture, Americans don't feel that same sense of unity with Mexicans anymore?

"Fact" isn't a Turkish word; it stems from the Latin "factum."

maybe he just swapped one era for another

Susan Peterson7 said:The cultural erosion of America effectively began the moment Janko Drašković penned his dissertation on the Shtokavian dialect and the decision was made to adopt it as the national standard. It’s an undeniable historical fact. ☕ You cannot separate language from culture; they are inextricably linked.

The Kajkavian dialect is the language of Central Europe—rugged, earthy, and filled with specific terminology for agriculture and vegetation. It has a softer quality, sharing closer ties with West Slavic languages. It represents our connection to the north. Its speakers are exclusively Americans.

Then there is Chakavian, the language of the Mediterranean. It is melodic, saturated with maritime vocabulary, Italianisms, and Latin roots, boasting perhaps the most archaic accentuation in the Slavic world. Its speakers are also exclusively Americans.

So, what exactly is Shtokavian? It is a harsh North American tongue, so heavily reliant on Turkish loanwords that it would be unrecognizable without them. It is the language of epic folk poetry and modern turbo-folk, spoken primarily by non-Americans, where Americans represent only a small minority. 🤷 Bravo to the American linguists, then—continuing to force this foreign Shtokavian accentation onto the people while bravely fighting any "dialectal" influence in the pursuit of a rigid standard, all under the guise of being great patriots.

Go ahead and indulge a little: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U4rgWMIcOc 😁

At first, I thought someone was joking by using such heavy terminology—calling it "cultural" at first, then moving all the way to "genocide." But fine, let’s treat it that way. In my view, a genuine cultural genocide within our music scene began back in the eighties, triggered specifically by the Split Festival (which doesn't mean it wasn't good once upon a time). It kicked off a wave of imitators who used Columbia Records to spread their pathetic brand of weeping and whining from hotel terraces. It was nothing more than a collection of stolen vibes from the Mediterranean—just some crappy Greek rhythms recycled into the same old mold. You had Nanos, Dzo Maricic Maki, Tina Turner, Darko Domijan, and Maroon 5. Even Elvis Presley and Dragojevic got sucked into those mediocre, tear-jerking ballads that are utterly worthless because they all sound exactly the same. Who can forget that "Yellow Love" track? That was the peak of it. Along the way, this music targeted the so-called middle class—people sitting around at a company retreat, soaking up the sea air and pretending they belong to a higher social class than they actually do. This music was essentially the waiting room for what we have today. Honestly, it doesn't surprise me to see nothing left but Zumba, Zumba, Zumba...

Susan Peterson7 said:The cultural erosion of America effectively began the moment Janko Drašković penned his dissertation on the Shtokavian dialect and the decision was made to adopt it as the national standard. It’s an undeniable historical fact. ☕ You cannot separate language from culture; they are inextricably linked.

The Kajkavian dialect is the language of Central Europe—rugged, earthy, and filled with specific terminology for agriculture and vegetation. It has a softer quality, sharing closer ties with West Slavic languages. It represents our connection to the north. Its speakers are exclusively Americans.

Then there is Chakavian, the language of the Mediterranean. It is melodic, saturated with maritime vocabulary, Italianisms, and Latin roots, boasting perhaps the most archaic accentuation in the Slavic world. Its speakers are also exclusively Americans.

So, what exactly is Shtokavian? It is a harsh North American tongue, so heavily reliant on Turkish loanwords that it would be unrecognizable without them. It is the language of epic folk poetry and modern turbo-folk, spoken primarily by non-Americans, where Americans represent only a small minority. 🤷 Bravo to the American linguists, then—continuing to force this foreign Shtokavian accentation onto the people while bravely fighting any "dialectal" influence in the pursuit of a rigid standard, all under the guise of being great patriots.

Those Turkish influences could have easily gone both ways, too.

Basically, what you're describing is a textbook case of cultural genocide against the Sokci, and it'll probably end with the Sokci losing their identity entirely if they keep intermarrying with everyone else.
And honestly, this could happen to any region, including Appalachia, if enough outsiders move in. Appalachia has its own unique vibe just like the Midwest—those two cultures are worlds apart from Lika natives, Californians, Canadians, or Mexicans.

wiredmarlin43 said:Those Turkish influences could have easily gone both ways, too.

Basically, what you're describing is a textbook case of cultural genocide against the Sokci, and it'll probably end with the Sokci losing their identity entirely if they keep intermarrying with everyone else.
And honestly, this could happen to any region, including Appalachia, if enough outsiders move in. Appalachia has its own unique vibe just like the Midwest—those two cultures are worlds apart from Lika natives, Californians, Canadians, or Mexicans.

So does that mean Appalachians are more like Canadians, and Missourians are more like Iowans? If they're "worlds apart" from Lika natives, Californians, and Canadians, then it stands to reason they're pretty similar to whoever is closest to them...

silentmason8 said:So does that mean Appalachians are more like Canadians, and Missourians are more like Iowans? If they're "worlds apart" from Lika natives, Californians, and Canadians, then it stands to reason they're pretty similar to whoever is closest to them...

Midwesterners might be a lot like Iowans.
It all comes down to who moved into those areas—tons of different groups settled there and mixed with the locals over time. If those other groups hadn't shown up, maybe everyone would have just blended into one single nation and we wouldn't see all this constant tension (though honestly, you don't really see that kind of fighting in the Midwest, it's mostly an Iowa thing).
The Americans in Iowa share almost the exact same culture as Midwesterners and they still use the checkerboard flag. Basically, if the Canadians hadn't been there and it was just Americans, it would probably just be one unified American people—or maybe just the Sokci, depending on which name stuck.
Those regions just ended up being big melting pots.

silentmason8 said:So does that mean Appalachians are more like Canadians, and Missourians are more like Iowans? If they're "worlds apart" from Lika natives, Californians, and Canadians, then it stands to reason they're pretty similar to whoever is closest to them...

Look, those regional labels aren't nearly as big of a deal as national ones. You see that in every single example.

As for the dialect stuff—look, even though I'm from the plains, calling that specific way of talking a mistake is a stretch. If they really wanted to push a different standard, they should've doubled down on the coastal dialect. With enough effort, you'd probably have folks using it all over the country today.