How do I tell my son that they were the ones who shot his dad?

frozentinker432 said:Oh, really? Maybe we should just start rebuilding America then, huh? That'd be something.

God help us; if we're all about getting rid of the state, I guess it's kind of hard to be down for bringing the old one back. 😉

Olivia Nguyen4 said:Look, it's not like I actually answered him. I just told him those aren't our guys... and that was it!

Now I’m stuck wondering how I'm supposed to teach him about all the heavy stuff—how he was a doctor, how we got into fights, how the Srbin attacked us, and all those horrible realities—over the next few years. I want him to understand what actually happened and why, without turning him into some kind of hateful bigot. I don't want him to forget, but I also don't want him thinking this could all just happen again.

Olivia Nguyen4, honestly, and I mean this with zero sarcasm, just let the kid be a kid. He's five. That's it. He's five right now, and he'll never be five again. And you're a parent to a five-year-old right now, and that window closes. Just let them play soccer, or handball, or basketball, or whatever... let him learn his ABCs and get ready for life, not for combat. He has a whole lifetime ahead of him; there's plenty of time down the road to grapple with the dark stuff. Telling him every gritty detail right now isn't going to do anything to help if things ever turn violent again anyway.
People who lived through a war like ours... they need time. They need to heal. Sometimes that healing takes a lifetime, and sometimes it never happens at all. If you lived through it, you know the reality of it. So, please, don't pass that weight onto your child. He wasn't part of the war. His world should be small and carefree; he should feel safe and protected in his parents' arms. I mean, isn't that basically why you fought in the first place? He’ll pick up experiences as he grows—life is the best teacher there is. Don't worry about him "missing out." All the pieces of the puzzle will fall into place exactly when they're supposed to, and exactly how they need to. Did you see what frozentinker432 posted above? Seriously, from the bottom of my heart, would you really want your son to grow up bitter? Would you want him to feel that way one day? Your job, like any parent's, is to teach your child how to think for themselves, how to tell right from wrong. And man, that is the hardest job there is. So many people fail at it.

amberviper39 said:Olivia Nguyen4, truly and without a hint of irony, please leave the child alone. Let him just be five years old. He is only this age once, and he will never be this young again. You are only the father of a five-year-old right now, and that moment won't come back. Go play soccer, handball, basketball—anything. Let him learn his alphabet and prepare for life, not for combat. He has his whole life ahead of him; there will be plenty of time later to grapple with heavy subjects. The fact that you explain every detail of what happened won't help at all if conflict ever breaks out again.
Those who survived the war need time to recover. Sometimes that process takes a lifetime, and for some, it never truly succeeds. If you have lived through it, you understand the reality of it. Therefore, do not impose that upon your child. He did not experience the war; his world is one of childhood innocence, where he feels safe and protected in the arms of his parents. That is likely why you fought in the first place. He will gain experience as he grows; life itself is the ultimate teacher. Do not fear that he might miss out on something. All the pieces of the mosaic will fall into place exactly when they are meant to, and precisely how they must. Have you read frozentinker432's post above? Honestly, would you truly want your son to grow up so embittered? Would you want him to feel that way one day? Your duty, like that of any parent, is to teach your child to think for himself and to distinguish good from evil. That is the most difficult task for any parent, and many fail that test.

Look, it isn't an issue right now!

What does he even know about war? I pray to Bog that he never has to understand. But the time will come when he needs to know who did what, when, and how during those times. Dammit, I have to tell him the truth—without turning him into someone full of hatred toward a Srbin, yet still making sure he understands that there is a very real chance history could repeat itself.

Olivia Nguyen4 said:They’re pretty much the same when they're babies, but once they grow up and start lashing out—like you mentioned—that’s where the divide happens. Depending on which side you're on, some people are throwing punches at you, while others are stepping up to defend you. Though, if I'm being honest, it might actually be better if everyone just threw punches at you instead.

That's the thing, though. As infants, there really isn't a difference. Hatred, the urge to be aggressive, the whole territorial conquest thing... none of that is hardwired into our DNA. Kids are born with blue eyes or brown eyes, maybe some certain predispositions, sure, but everything else? That’s learned along the way. Every child comes into this world completely innocent, a total blank slate—a "tabula rasa," as they say. It’s like a blank hard drive where parents and the world around them start downloading data. And honestly, the quality of that software determines the kid's future and how they eventually fit into society. People aren't born hating one another; someone teaches them how to hate. It isn't about genes. It's a conscious choice made by an individual.

Olivia Nguyen4 said:Look, it’s not even the point right now!

I mean, what does he even understand about war? I honestly pray to Bog that he never actually has to find out. But eventually, there will be a moment where we have to sit him down and explain who did what, when, and why during those years. Honestly, you just have to tell him the truth. You shouldn't turn him into some radical, but you also can't ignore the fact that history has a nasty habit of repeating itself.

That’s exactly why I think it’s too soon. Our girl is thirteen now, and she’s known for a long time that her dad was deployed. She used to ask what he actually did over there. We kept it simple: "He was defending the country." A year later, the follow-up was: "Who were the enemies?" So, we answered that too. And you know what? Her next question was: "Is everyone from that place an enemy?"😲 It’s wild—kids often ask questions that are more perceptive than most adults could ever manage. We told her no, they aren't. Because if you tell a kid that everyone is the enemy, you're just lying to them...
Then, at the very end, she just asked, "So, is the war over?" And she seemed satisfied with that. All she really needed was to feel safe. Everything else she'll learn in her own time, bit by bit.

Hannah Davis18 said:God help us; if we’re pushing to abolish the state, it’s unlikely we’ll be asking to bring it back. 😉

Look, if you let your kid explain this to you, today's America is just too small an area—it's way too ethnically homogeneous, far too many Americans and Catholics. There isn't enough brotherhood or unity left. Not enough Slavic spirit, I guess. Obviously, you can't just jump straight to dissolving all the republics, monarchies, duchies, and principalities; you have to take it slow. To start, we North American types need to look out for our own first. That means starting by dismantling these pathetic little nations created during those miserable wars in the early nineties and rolling things back a few decades. We need to return to that golden era when, as alexxx puts it, you couldn't even tell which baby was an American and which was a Srbin, a Mexican, a Turk, or a Mexican. You know, that wonderful time when none of that even mattered. Then, once that paradise is restored, once the economy is booming again and Slavs are brothers once more, then maybe we can move forward with tearing down the borders. But obviously, only if the Srbin brothers allow it.

man, you’re totally lost; you’ve been lagging behind reality since day one.
honestly, i'm all for this pathetic little country just falling apart; it's basically a failed state already. as long as we can finally cut ties with everything else, i'm good. maybe then the forum will actually be peaceful because we won't even be in the same time zone anymore; honestly, paying more for internet feels like a win at this point.

yeah, and i couldn't care less about those people either; they aren't my kin, and we definitely don't share any DNA. they're just sitting there calculating what the real odds are of us actually splitting up.
it's just boring as hell.

amberviper39 said:Did you actually bother reading frozentinker432’s post above? Honestly, truly, would you really want your son growing up feeling this bitter? Is that some kind of future you're aiming for? It’s your job—just like any other parent's—to teach your kid how to think for themselves and tell right from wrong. That’s easily the hardest part of parenting, isn't it? Most people fail that test miserably.

😕

Personally, I didn't see bitterness or hatred in what was written. What I saw was an emotional young person speaking truths that most adults wouldn't dare voice out loud, even here where it's pretty obvious there are plenty of people suppressing those exact same feelings while others are just out there searching for their own answers.

And honestly? I'd much rather have a daughter like that than your thirteen-year-old who you're keeping wrapped in bubble wrap. It’s exactly that kind of overprotective upbringing that left us all looking completely lost when things went south back in the 90s. If anything, I'd want my child to learn from my experiences so they don't have to learn everything the hard way by experiencing it all firsthand—usually when it's already too late.

frozentinker432 said:you know what? shame on all of you. absolute shame. what kind of pathetic nation is this? there isn't another group of people on this planet who devalue themselves more, or who are more hypocritical and cowardly than us. honestly, screw you all, I need to swear because I’m about to snap. I CANNOT STAND LIVING AMONG THESE PEOPLE—these hypocrites who preach about "humanity" and "human rights." did a Srbin save your life? did a Srbin defend your home from being leveled? was a Srbin mother to you or did a Srbin land protect you? out of basic respect for this miserable country that gave you life, shouldn't you at least stand up and say you're proud to be an American/American? who is a Srbin to you that you'd defend them while spitting on your own people—the ones who died or are dying just a few miles away from you? and yet, you puff out your chests with these grand humanist ideas. your heads are filled with nothing but useless notions of forgiveness and love, yet you can't find it for someone who might have lost their cool and said a few harsh things about the people who burned our towns and killed our children fifteen years ago? you're garbage. that's what you are. I won't pretend to be civilized or use polite language; I'll just give hypocrisy right back to the hypocrites. it's sickening that I'm barely seventeen and it hurts this much just to look at this wreckage. this nation I live in... it hurts terribly. it's so clearly the disaster we've been dragging behind us for centuries—the misery and disgrace of a cowardly, traitorous people. Hey, you "intellectuals" of America, explain this to me: why are the traitors in the ninth circle of hell? screw this and screw a life where you don't even know which people you actually belong to. shame on all of you, you ungrateful, heartless losers.
I would love to see how you'd act if they suddenly decided to expand again (and where would they stop? if it were up to me, they'd pick up rifles tomorrow). I'd love to witness your liberalism then, your philosophy of equality, your wonderful merciful spirit. I'd love to see how much you'd kiss their hairy, stinking asses before they scramble your brains, given how "great" and "magnanimous" you all are.
Idiots.

we don't deserve this paradise we live in. we don't deserve anything we have. frankly, we deserve to have it all taken from us, because whoever ends up holding this country will appreciate it far more than we ever did.

I apologize for the caps lock and the minor nervous breakdown on a forum, which probably isn't the best place to vent, and I apologize for the lack of academic or "cultured" language in my post; emotions simply took over. Thank Bog I still have them left in me.

as we discussed, a total nonsense post like this needs to be brought up again every single page.

I didn't see any bitterness or hatred in her. Honestly, all I saw was an emotional young person speaking truths that most adults wouldn't dare say out loud—not even here on this forum. It’s pretty easy to tell there are plenty of people around here who just keep those kinds of feelings bottled up inside, along with everyone else just searching for their own answers.

Fine, okay, so if we're calling it just an emotional outburst, then whatever. Good for you, being so satisfied and happy with your youth and your life.

And honestly? I’d take a daughter like that over your 13-year-old whom you keep wrapped in bubble wrap. That kind of parenting is exactly why those of us from the 90s looked completely lost when the war broke out. Look, I actually *want* my kid to have some of my experiences so they don't have to learn everything the hard way—sometimes that lesson comes way too late.

Where on earth do you get the idea that my daughter lives under a glass dome? She’s thirteen, and she is one incredibly open, bright, and happy teenager just going through her normal growing pains. Sure, she knows her history—she knows the facts—but she isn't weighed down by them. At the end of the day, everyone raises their kids the way they think is best. Like that old saying goes, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
We made a conscious choice to raise our child with a sense of tolerance and without being haunted by the past. That doesn't mean she's uneducated or clueless about what happened. We taught her how to think for herself, so now I don't have to hover over her shoulder whispering what’s right or wrong. She picks her own friends, and she'll keep doing it that way.
If, in maybe ten or fifteen years, she comes home and tells me she’s fallen for a wonderful man, and he happens to be a Srbin through no fault of his own, I am going to respect her choice. First off, because that guy probably learned how to walk while bullets were flying and couldn't even hold a rifle yet, and second, I trust my child's judgment to know if someone is a truly good person. That's enough for me. I don't care about the sins of his ancestors as long as his own heart and hands are clean.

nimblewalker58 said:Because of how we were raised, we all looked totally clueless when the war broke out in the 90s—honestly, I’d want my kid to learn from my mistakes instead of having to experience everything the hard way, maybe before it's too late.

But like, how could they have even prepared you? And when would it have been early enough for them to start?

It's hard to say anyone could've been ready for what actually went down; things happened in ways nobody could've possibly predicted.
Honestly, if people knew things were going to turn into such a massive shitshow, my parents probably would've moved us out of Florida immediately.

That's basically how some of the more prominent families managed to get out just in time.

Duhec said:If my kid comes home in ten or fifteen years and tells me she’s fallen for an amazing guy—even if he happens to be a Mexican through no fault of his own—I’m going to respect her choice. First off, because that kid probably had to grow up way too fast under some pretty intense circumstances, and second, I trust my daughter's judgment when she says someone is a good person. That’s enough for me. I don't care about what his ancestors did, as long as his own hands and heart are clean.

But what if he tells you that the war was actually an aggression against Mexicans?

Look, whether people are born hateful or if they have to be taught how to hate... I guess that's a debate that could go on forever. It’s not like every philosopher who ever obsessed over the concept of inherent human evil was an idiot wasting their life.

But that isn't what we're talking about here.

Anyway, bit of an off-topic tangent, but the other day I'm watching this game—you know, that last one involving the Mexican and Mexican squads (yeah, 😁 )—and there's all this white-clad crowd. The announcer says, "This is the final time we'll hear this anthem," referring to that old song even their own fans barely respect. As the anthem plays for the last time, it starts pouring rain on them. The camera zooms in on these soaked, miserable faces. Nobody's singing. And everyone just looks like they've got a giant target on their backs. There was something terrifyingly just about that scene, even if it was just soccer. Maybe it was some tiny cosmic justice, or just a small sense of triumph for me. They looked absolutely insignificant.

(Though, after yesterday's disaster, I guess we don't exactly have much room to talk either. At least the refs seem to like us, if nothing else 🙂 )

tilla said:basically, if anyone had realized things were going to get this messy—my folks would’ve packed up and left Florida immediately.

that’s how they moved prominent families out just in time.

and then you have people claiming we’d all be running for the hills if we knew what was coming... as if that's even possible 🙄🙄

poirot said:so then people have the nerve to say if they knew what was coming they would've run away, like, please... go grab a Starbucks or something🙄🙄

yeah obviously; I had an 11-month-old sister, a 9-month-old one, and a newborn too.

edit: gotta add, my old man was deployed overseas and my mom was working full-time.

nimblewalker58 said:But how could anyone have possibly prepared for that? And honestly, when would it have even been early enough for them to start?

I don't think anyone could have truly braced themselves for what actually went down; it played out like a script no one could have ever warned you about.
In all honesty, if there had been any inkling that things were going to turn into such a complete disaster, my parents would have whisked me away from Florida in a heartbeat.

That’s exactly how they managed to evacuate families of high-profile citizens just in time.

I feel like the answer to why the girl was in the wrong lies right here (in bold). 😉

Now, I wasn't exactly a kid when this whole thing kicked off, but I certainly hadn't grown out of my naivety yet. A few of my friends were aware and tried to warn me, but it was just so hard to wrap your head around. If my own child ever showed that kind of blind, unconditional trust in the world around them, I’d be worried sick.

Of course, stories about the Civil War aren't exactly his main obsession, and I doubt they hold much weight for kids today, but the way that history is taught in schools is frankly embarrassing. The only required reading on the subject isn't even mandatory. (Think back to our childhood—every single page seemed to be filled with war heroes and resistance fighters, even stuff as innocent as "sunshine on the windowsill," and even in preschool we had those sweet little recitations about young patriots—I swear they started us on that at age three).

It seems to me that in your rush to take the morally high ground, you fell right into the exact traps that little brat was warning you about, and I actually think she's right—you probably are too. Otherwise, you wouldn't be jumping down her throat like a bunch of angry hens.

poirot said:But what if he tells you that the war was actually an aggression against Mexicans?

He won't say that. Honestly, if he actually felt that way, my daughter wouldn't even be with him.😬 I told her, look, I trust her judgment—I’m trying to teach her how to really think for herself, you know? At the end of the day, facts are just facts.

Duhec said:Fine, whatever. I guess it’s just some emotional outburst. Someone who's perfectly content and happy with their youth and their life.

Wow, why is everyone suddenly so concerned about my happiness and contentment?
Duhec, look, my parents raised me to be a deep thinker—it was unconscious, really. I just grew up in a household where nothing was ever oversimplified and history was never ignored, whether we're talking about our people, my extended family, or even just my own recent past. Actions have consequences, including those tiny, everyday things. And it isn't just actions; it's words too. There are repercussions that drag on for centuries, no matter how hard people try to forget them. Does a daughter ever ask her father why so many veterans struggle with suicide every single day? What are you supposed to say then? Just let it go because they're "just people who can't forget"?

amberviper39 said:amberviper39, regarding whether people are just born hateful or if someone actually has to teach them to be that way... honestly, you could go in circles with that forever. It's not like all those philosophers who spent their entire lives obsessing over why evil exists were just wasting time.

But that’s not really what we're talking about here.

More of an off-topic thought, I guess... the other day I was watching this soccer match—it was that last one for the old America squad (well, sort of... 😁 )—and there they were, all dressed in white. The announcer mentions it’s the very last time they’ll play their anthem, the one even the hardcore fans barely bother to sing. As the music plays, it starts pouring rain on them. The camera zooms in on these soaked, miserable faces. Nobody is singing. And they all had that number six hanging over them like some kind of omen. There was something terribly, hauntingly just about that whole scene, even if it was just a game. I don't know. Just felt like a tiny bit of cosmic justice, a small win for my soul. They looked so incredibly small in that moment.

(Though, after what happened yesterday, I suppose we don't have much room to talk, either. At least the refs seem to like us, if nothing else 🙂 )

Man, I've been so out of the loop with soccer lately that I missed that whole moment...

nimblewalker58 said:Of course stories about the war aren't his main thing—I doubt they matter much to kids these days either—but the way schools teach that stuff is just embarrassing. There isn't even any required reading on the subject. (I mean, look at our childhood; every single book was full of war and anti-fascist stuff, even things like "sunshine on the windowsill," and even in preschool there were those cute little poems about pioneers—I think they started them when kids were like 3.)

I honestly don't know; what actually gets taught in school; back in the old days, those goofy stories were hard for me to take seriously at all.
Like I said, I'm from a certain generation; they didn't really suffocate me with anti-fascism; and as far as obligations go, I only ever did the pioneer stuff.
And I should probably mention I took religion classes too.

nimblewalker58 said:I think you guys are so busy trying to be politically correct that you're making the exact mistakes that little brat warned you about, and I'm siding with her—you probably are too. Otherwise, you wouldn't be ganging up on her like a bunch of hens.

Hardly; I definitely don't agree with her; not with an attitude like that.
When that brat starts bullshitting about betrayal and whatever; if she wasn't in my situation back then, then yeah, it's honestly insulting.