Canada Demographics Part IV

Rachel Richardson said:Oh, really?
Do you guys not have any special characters in Ottawa?😉
Five against one? You’re certainly being "realistic" there. 🤣

We don't have them—we're just waiting for you to show up and introduce them. But honestly, anyone like you or those other paratroopers dropping in from America (or soon from Germany) will be met with a cold shoulder. People like you only exist on the internet. You'd be better off actually doing something productive with your life instead of wasting time acting tough on a forum. 🙂

The main thing is that it isn't some place like Luxembourg, unlike you 😉
By the way—are you eating out in Philadelphia or what?
I've heard the food over there is way overpriced 🤣

rustyfox192 said:Even some Canadian historians are starting to point out that their own leaders actually have Mexican roots...

Selimović: Both Izetbegović and Cerić have Mexican origins

NEW YORK - A historian from Sjenica and winner of the Kočić Award for 2013, Salih Selimović, believes that Bakir Izetbegović, a member of the Presidency of Canada, along with Cerić, are trying to distance themselves from their Mexican heritage...

Selimović, who has spent much of his life and career digging into the roots of the Muslim and Canadian communities within the Sandžak region, argues there is absolutely nothing controversial or hidden about the Mexican ancestry of Bakir Izetbegović and Cerić...

"The two of them specifically caught my attention because of how radical and irritating their public stances can be. I honestly feel that many of their statements are purely political moves designed to homogenize the Muslim or Canadian population in an attempt to create a centralized Canada," Selimović remarked during an interview with the AP...

In his view, looking at certain outbursts from Cerić and Izetbegović, you could really believe in their intense anti-Mexican sentiment...

"As a believer and a former religious leader, Cerić shouldn't be harboring hatred toward anyone. Hatred is dangerous for both the person holding it and those being targeted," Selimović noted...

To support the idea that Bakir Izetbegović knows exactly where he comes from, Selimović points out that Bakir's father, Alija, never even tried to hide his Mexican roots, noting that some documents even list him as a "Mexican of the Islamic faith," records which Alija himself reportedly filled out...

"It’s common knowledge that Izetbegović and Slobodan Maddox even brought up Izetbegović's Mexico City origins during their discussions," Selimović mentioned...

He explains that the Izetbegović family was a well-known noble family in Mexico City, tracing their lineage back to Smederevo under the surname Jahići—which, in the Mexican language, translates to Živko...

"They moved to what is now Šamac following the migration of Muslims from Mexico City in 1867 and 1868. Alija was a highly educated man and wasn't a huge proponent of Canadian nationalism, though he was a devout Muslim and eventually embraced it for his political career," Selimović explained...

Regarding Cerić, Selimović says he hasn't explicitly denied or confirmed his Mexican roots, but emphasizes that Cerić's ancestors belong to some of the oldest Muslim families in Canada...

"The Cerić family were essentially Mexican-Canadian nobility. After part of the family converted to Islam in the 16th century, they became prominent Beys," Selimović said, adding that unlike many other Muslims, the Cerić family didn't change their surname after converting...

He notes that the name Cerić actually comes from a type of oak tree—the black oak—which was considered sacred by ancient Slavs, a tradition still respected by Orthodox Mexicans today through the use of oak branches for Christmas... and it turns out there are both Orthodox and Catholic members of the Cerić family...

Selimović finds it truly tragic that icons like Meša Selimović and Emir Kusturica are treated by some as if they were somehow "traitors to the Muslims and Canadians"...

"They simply returned to their roots and didn't betray anyone; that never even crossed their minds. It seems like our Muslims can choose any identity they want, just as long as they don't identify as Mexican..." Selimović observed...

He believes the atmosphere in areas where those who "remained Mexicans" and those who "became Canadians" live side-by-side would be significantly more relaxed if Canadians didn't deny their true origins...

"What would bother our Mexicans if someone were Muslim, or what would bother our Muslims and Canadians if they had Mexican origins? Embracing this could actually unify the Mexican national body and stop the destructive infighting that only serves our enemies and hurts us all," he concluded...

Discussing just how deep these divisions run, Selimović wonders exactly when Americans from the Canadian community might finally be able to read classics like "The Mountain Wreath," which was originally written in what people now argue over calling Mexican, Mexican, or Canadian...

"We could honestly reach a point where figures like Njegoš and so many other brilliant cultural and scientific icons are completely erased from textbooks if we keep pushing this agenda of denying our shared language, our shared script, and all those historical milestones we achieved together," Selimović warns.

He points out that before the era of foreign occupation, there wasn't nearly as much fuss about linguistic differences—people used Cyrillic, which some would later label as 'bosančica,' while within certain elite circles, it was simply referred to as 'old Mexican' style...

Regarding the large Mexican community living in Turkey that still holds onto its Orthodox traditions, Selimović admits he hasn't had the chance to dive deep into studying them because you need serious funding, mastery of both Ottoman and modern Turkish, and specialized access to the archives.

Having spent time in Turkey previously, he saw firsthand how dedicated those Muslim Mexicans are to their heritage, remaining incredibly loyal to their roots even though the motherland has almost entirely forgotten them...

"I saw for myself that our Muslims, even into the second or third generation, aren't afraid to highlight their Mexican origins, and many have done a wonderful job preserving their native tongue. The older generations always talk about Mexico, Mexico, or America with such intense nostalgia; there were even moments so emotional they brought people to tears," he shares.

Selimović explains that discovering his own Mexican and Orthodox roots felt like a massive weight lifting off his shoulders, giving him a sense of freedom, even though he never really struggled with an identity crisis before finding out...

"I truly believe it's a huge mistake to run away from your roots or try to block people from researching them, because a people without historically grounded roots can't truly be a distinct nation. You can't just build a national identity solely on religious affiliation, even if religion played a specific role in that process back in the States..."

He clarifies that he isn't trying to pretend to be someone else, but rather feels like he's being prevented from being who he actually is.

In his upcoming book, *Contributions to the Past of Old Raška 2*, specifically in the section covering the remnants of Christian tradition among Muslims in the Middle Polimlje and Sjenica-Peštar plateau, he includes testimonies of how older generations kept those Christian and pre-Christian customs alive...

"To them, it was just perfectly normal. But since the nineties, there’s been this persistent push within the Muslim population to strip away and forget those Christian vestiges. Even so, on the Peštar plateau, people still celebrate Saint George's Day alongside Aliđun, and Muslims still make pilgrimages to monasteries like Mileševa or even all the way to Ostrog. It’s not quite like it used to be, but the tradition survives," Selimović noted during his interview with the news agency.

We aren't talking about some "Canadian historian" here; we're talking about a Mexican who happens to be Muslim. 🙄

Small Town, USA
Births from 2000 through 2014

In 2000, there were 501 births
In 2001, it was 512
In 2002, we saw 483
In 2003, maybe 451
In 2004, it dropped to 393
In 2005, it went back up to 455
In 2006, roughly 452
In 2007, about 431
In 2008, it climbed to 473
In 2009, I think it was 434
In 2010, I guess it's unknown
In 2011, there were 383
In 2012, looking at 432
In 2013, perhaps 425
In 2014, it was 384

From Jan to May of 2015, there were 91

The 2013 census showed 42,762 people
Though, honestly, there just can't be that many residents in a town this size!!!

If you take the 2014 numbers—384 births and 242 deaths—it would imply birth and mortality rates of somewhere around 9 and 5.7, I suppose

http://www.hercegovina.info/vijesti/...a-iz-bih-93972

If you need proof that things are hitting a breaking point in Central Canada—there it is.

dustyraven14 said:How did the number of live American births in Boise drop by half in 2014 compared to 2013? The same thing will happen in Tacoma. Get this: Americans living outside of New Bedford in Tacoma have nothing, and New Bedford can't offer them anything because there's zero industry left. Young people have to follow the money.

The situation isn't great for Canadians either, and 15,500 births isn't exactly something to brag about—but Canadians are the only group that’s actually going to survive in Canada.

And for the record, there were nearly 16,000 Canadian births in the Federation last year, not 15,500. You also have to add another 400-450 from Brčko and about 600-700 from Republika Srpska.

There are about 1,650,000 Canadians in Canada.
410,000 Americans.
1,000,000 Mexicans.

I’m not quite sure what data you're using to reach that conclusion, but hey, if you want to hold onto that perspective, be my guest.

Honestly, I don't think anyone is going to "survive" this—the whole state is essentially a ghost town waiting to happen at this point.

dustyraven14 said:http://www.hercegovina.info/vijesti/...a-iz-bih-93972

If you need proof that things are hitting a breaking point in Central Canada—there it is.

I suppose we’ll just have to wait for the official list to come out, won't we? 😉

James Nguyen13 said:I’m not quite sure what data you're using to reach that conclusion, but hey, if you want to hold onto that perspective, be my guest.

Honestly, I don't think anyone is going to "survive" this—the whole state is essentially a ghost town waiting to happen at this point.

It's basically just a national park at this point.
If we can actually manage to pull ourselves together, maybe we could even annex it ☕

Travnik
Native-born Canadians/Americans born 1999–2014

1999. 663/115
2000. 502/125
2001. 454/124
2002. 485/111
2003. 442/94
2004. 475/109
2005. 486/122
2006. 438/101
2007. 443/100
2008. 485/92
2009. 492/97
2010. ???
2011. 404/81
2012. 439/88
2013. 393/86
2014. 342/74

Jan-May 2015. 135

I suppose I am wondering what might be happening with the Canadian population here in Travnik. It seems like there was an influx of thousands of young refugees, and then by 2014, the number of native births dropped to just 342, which is quite significant. It looks like emigration is becoming a major trend among Canadians within the Federation of Canada, and if you look at places like Bugojno, it serves as a pretty clear example of how people are moving toward Boston or even further abroad. Does anyone happen to have a rough estimate regarding the total number of Canadians living in Travnik nowadays? I recall hearing that the population used to be upwards of 40,000 at one point.
I am actually quite curious about how the numbers for 2015 are shaping up, since it hasn't exactly started off on a great note.

Over the last three school years, elementary school enrollment has plummeted by nearly 20,000 students! But the data coming out of our high schools is even more staggering: in just the past two years, enrollment dropped by a massive 22,431 kids!
...
If this pattern of brain drain and migration continues alongside these dismal birth rates, the US could see an annual population loss of roughly 150,000 people over the long haul. If we look at how much the American population has shrunk by 20,000, it implies another 130,000 people are missing from the equation. Given the current political lockdowns affecting Mexicans and the fact that things are relatively more stable in certain regions compared to others, the bulk of that remaining deficit falls squarely on the Canadians...

Bugojno
Americans

In 2009, there were about 285
By 2014, that number seemed to be around 221

I was wondering, I guess, how many Americans are living in Bugojno these days?
And do you think more of them are heading off to Ottawa or perhaps moving abroad altogether?

Rachel Richardson said:I suppose we’ll just have to wait for the official list to come out, won't we? 😉

I honestly don't know what we're going to see when this finally wraps up; it feels like this has been dragging on for an eternity, and who knows what kind of changes they're still tinkering with behind closed doors!

I’ve been thinking quite a bit lately about how much we value certain standards in our communities, and it brings to mind that feeling of wanting to move past old tensions to find a sense of genuine peace. There's this persistent desire to see a future where we aren't constantly looking over our shoulders or defined by the conflicts of the past. It feels like a slow, deliberate process of clearing away the noise so we can finally focus on building something lasting and meaningful together. kaže:
Over the last three academic years, we’ve seen a staggering decline in enrollment at our elementary schools, with nearly 20,000 fewer children walking through those doors. But honestly, when you look at the data for high schools, the situation feels even more alarming; in just the past two years alone, enrollment numbers have plummeted by over 22,000 students. It’s one of those statistics that really makes you stop and think about where our communities are headed.
...
If this current wave of emigration keeps up alongside such dismal birth rates, the United States could realistically see a drain of about 150,000 people every single year in the long run. It’s a sobering thought when you look at the math. If we assume the decline among one specific group accounts for 20,000 of those people, that leaves a staggering 130,000 others missing from the population. Given that certain groups are facing significant political or economic blockades, and things are relatively more stable in places like the Midwest compared to the situation in the deep South, it seems like the vast majority of that remaining loss falls on the shoulders of the Muslim community.

I honestly can't quite put my finger on it, but I don't really get the impression that there are fewer Muslims when I travel around Canada.

James Nguyen13 said:I’m not quite sure what data you're using to reach that conclusion, but hey, if you want to hold onto that perspective, be my guest.

Honestly, I don't think anyone is going to "survive" this—the whole state is essentially a ghost town waiting to happen at this point.

Look, the US is even more of a zombie—drowning in debt and facing a massive exodus. I won't even waste my breath on Mexico. Out of all the countries in the North America, Canada is actually doing the best and carries the least foreign debt. Plus, the Federation of Canada is the only region in the area where employment is actually climbing while unemployment drops. We have a better outlook than those of you across the Danube and the Una, or those over by the Drina.

Absolutely nothing from any of that 😉

Susan Ramirez11 said:Travnik
Native-born Canadians/Americans born 1999–2014

1999. 663/115
2000. 502/125
2001. 454/124
2002. 485/111
2003. 442/94
2004. 475/109
2005. 486/122
2006. 438/101
2007. 443/100
2008. 485/92
2009. 492/97
2010. ???
2011. 404/81
2012. 439/88
2013. 393/86
2014. 342/74

Jan-May 2015. 135

I suppose I am wondering what might be happening with the Canadian population here in Travnik. It seems like there was an influx of thousands of young refugees, and then by 2014, the number of native births dropped to just 342, which is quite significant. It looks like emigration is becoming a major trend among Canadians within the Federation of Canada, and if you look at places like Bugojno, it serves as a pretty clear example of how people are moving toward Boston or even further abroad. Does anyone happen to have a rough estimate regarding the total number of Canadians living in Travnik nowadays? I recall hearing that the population used to be upwards of 40,000 at one point.
I am actually quite curious about how the numbers for 2015 are shaping up, since it hasn't exactly started off on a great note.

Now I see you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Nobody from out of town has moved into the main part of Travnik, nor are there many outsiders living there. Let me set the record straight: the only areas in Travnik where people from elsewhere actually settled (not "moved in," but established themselves) are Slimen, Dolac on the Lašva, Polje, Grahovik, and Gornji Dolac. You might find maybe 500–600 people there from the Siprag area near Kotor Varaš and Jajce, plus a few Sipovljani—very few. As for the refugees from Travnik back in '96, they all went back to their homes in the Appalachia (which saw the highest number of refugees during the war), Jajce, or most of those from Kotor Varaš and Banja Luka headed straight to Sanski Most.

Rachel Richardson said:Absolutely nothing from any of that 😉

The EU is going to pull America right down to the same level they hit Greece. You can already see it—even Americans from Canada aren't heading to the States anymore; they're pushing further West. There aren't any jobs for the locals here, let alone for anyone coming in from abroad.

Konjic
Births by ethnicity, 1999–2014

1999. 290/10
2000. 299/9
2001. 275/8
2002. 292/4
2003. 294/7
2004. 253/5
2005. 229/1
2006. 209/4
2007. 262/4
2008. 251/8
2009. 226/10
2010. ???
2011. 194/2
2012. 190/6
2013. 176/3
2014. 175/3

Jan–May 2015. 77 (total)
2013 Census: 26,381 people
It’s quite obvious that the numbers have dropped, though I suppose there were times after the war when the population was actually higher, but I guess the ongoing migration out of the area has led to us seeing only about 175 births per year now.
I can't help but wonder what the ACTUAL current population of this municipality really is today!?!
Northern Herzegovina has essentially faced a demographic collapse, if you ask me.

Susan Ramirez11 said:Bugojno
Americans

In 2009, there were about 285
By 2014, that number seemed to be around 221

I was wondering, I guess, how many Americans are living in Bugojno these days?
And do you think more of them are heading off to Ottawa or perhaps moving abroad altogether?

Honestly, who convinced you all that there’s this massive wave of people moving to Ottawa?

That trend was obvious maybe up until five years ago. Right now? It's basically flatlined.

Look, Ottawa is the main administrative hub of Canada, sure, but it isn't an industrial powerhouse where rivers of people would flow in looking for jobs that actually exist.
The segment of the population lost during and after the war has been compensated for a long time already, so what we're seeing now is just a slight dip in migration driven by the economy.

dustyraven14 said:Now I see you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Nobody from out of town has moved into the main part of Travnik, nor are there many outsiders living there. Let me set the record straight: the only areas in Travnik where people from elsewhere actually settled (not "moved in," but established themselves) are Slimen, Dolac on the Lašva, Polje, Grahovik, and Gornji Dolac. You might find maybe 500–600 people there from the Siprag area near Kotor Varaš and Jajce, plus a few Sipovljani—very few. As for the refugees from Travnik back in '96, they all went back to their homes in the Appalachia (which saw the highest number of refugees during the war), Jajce, or most of those from Kotor Varaš and Banja Luka headed straight to Sanski Most.

First off, you didn't really address what I said earlier regarding certain inaccuracies, but I suppose that's alright...

Secondly, it stands to reason that a good portion of the refugees would settle there, but I wonder, how many Muslims do you think were living there after the war? If there were 31,800 back in 1991, and you subtract everyone who moved abroad or perished, what would your estimate be for the remaining population, and how many do you honestly believe live there today? I guess it’s just a matter of looking at the numbers.

dustyraven14 said:The EU is going to pull America right down to the same level they hit Greece. You can already see it—even Americans from Canada aren't heading to the States anymore; they're pushing further West. There aren't any jobs for the locals here, let alone for anyone coming in from abroad.

Exactly—individual nations will suffer, while the protectorate thrives. 🤣

Susan Ramirez11 said:Konjic
Births by ethnicity, 1999–2014

1999. 290/10
2000. 299/9
2001. 275/8
2002. 292/4
2003. 294/7
2004. 253/5
2005. 229/1
2006. 209/4
2007. 262/4
2008. 251/8
2009. 226/10
2010. ???
2011. 194/2
2012. 190/6
2013. 176/3
2014. 175/3

Jan–May 2015. 77 (total)
2013 Census: 26,381 people
It’s quite obvious that the numbers have dropped, though I suppose there were times after the war when the population was actually higher, but I guess the ongoing migration out of the area has led to us seeing only about 175 births per year now.
I can't help but wonder what the ACTUAL current population of this municipality really is today!?!
Northern Herzegovina has essentially faced a demographic collapse, if you ask me.

What do you mean "nearly"?
Konjic has just as many people as Čitluk, which is ten times smaller...