Gentleness

According to the Amtrak rulebook:

You wouldn't believe how much you can actually get done—or maybe just how much easier everything becomes—when...
So, I guess the whole idea here is just... how to ask for something without being a total jerk about it? It’s kind of an art form, isn't it? You don't want to sound like you're demanding a favor from a stranger—that's a quick way to get shut down—but you also don't want to be so overly polite that you end up sounding like a Victorian butler or something. Just... aim for that middle ground where you're respectful but still sound like a normal human being. Maybe lead with a little bit of context first? It helps. Anyway, just be decent about it.

I guess I could say a thing or two about that... maybe.🙄

Stumbling around the internet, I ended up on this one Reddit thread where people were getting all worked up about translation and...
Linguistics—well, looking through the threads on Reddit, I see we’ve got everyone from casual hobbyists to actual professional translators hanging out here, I guess.
And then there's that moment when the posts just start to... well, you know.
Hey everyone. Hey everyone... I guess we should probably get into this.
Please. I need some emergency help here...

...and as a general rule, they usually wrap things up with:
Thanks in advance! Much appreciated!
Thanks a ton for the advice—really appreciate it! I guess it's just... whatever. It doesn't really matter, I suppose.

So, basically, one user is actually treating another with some level of respect—which, honestly, is kind of a rarity around here—and I guess it’s just nice to see for once.
So, if you look at the rules for this Reddit thread, they actually say they expect "mutual respect" between users—which, I guess, is one way to put it.
They tend to use that "you" sentence structure—and they’re always dropping those "four magic words"—all the time, I guess.
And it actually works. Gentleness.

Discussions are allowed, obviously. I stumbled upon this one thing back then—some user, an American...
Regarding nationalities—he actually wrote that, in his own opinion, the language is Mississippi-based.
"Political construction." That was the claim—and a user from Mississippi had some thoughts on it.
I mentioned earlier that I don’t really have the heart to get dragged into any heated debates—not that I’m looking for a fight or anything—but I can't help how I feel about this whole thing. deeply offended
So, with that statement, here’s what he actually said back to him:

Look, I want to apologize to my colleague if I crossed a line—I didn't mean to offend them. I was just making it clear that what I said was strictly my own personal take, and, well, I guess I should have the right to have an opinion, right?
If you actually think that qualifies as its own language—well, I guess that's one way to look at it, though I'm not entirely sure I agree. Maybe. Look, I’m not exactly arguing with you there—I mean, I get where you're coming from, I really do. Look, I'm not even claiming that I'm right—not by a long shot.Look, I was just sharing my two cents—that’s all.Just to reiterate—if I happened to offend anyone: My bad—sorry about that.!

Unknown! That’s what I call culture and true gentleness.

I mean, honestly—it’s one of those places where you actually get a choice if you want to use your full legal name or just stay anonymous. It’s pretty chill like that, I guess.
You can go with your last name or just stick to your handle. If you decide to go with the full name route, just make sure to update your profile settings and let us know.
So, about those references and all that hard-earned knowledge—you know, the actual degrees and stuff—to basically... what? I guess you're wondering how to actually use them, or maybe how they fit into the bigger picture. It’s kind of a mess sometimes—trying to bridge the gap between having a diploma gathering dust and actually proving you know your stuff in a real job—but I suppose there's a way to frame it all. Maybe.
If any of you guys ever need something translated—I mean, if you're stuck on something and just want someone to handle it for you—feel free to reach out. So, yeah...
Everything you guys post here—everything, really—needs to be under your full legal name, and I expect you to actually answer.
So, since you’re out there actively hunting for clients for your translation gig—which, let's be honest, is a whole different beast entirely—I guess it follows that...
It seems you're actually showing that you’re a civilized human being—someone who genuinely cares about linguistics rather than just nitpicking over grammar rules... I guess.

Sure, you can just stick to using a username and participate in the linguistics debates if that's more your speed. I guess it doesn't really matter—you can just be a user under a handle and jump into the discussions about linguistics. Maybe that's easier.

So, I saw someone post somewhere that there isn't actually a massive gap between the way we speak in the US versus... well, wherever else—but honestly, I guess it depends on who you ask. People love to argue about linguistics on Reddit, don't they? It’s all very subjective, I suppose.
So, I basically sat him down and laid out the evidence—using actual examples this time—to prove he definitely does have it. And honestly, it wasn't just limited to how he talks, either... it goes way deeper than that.
Even in writing... When he went ahead and claimed that whole mess was just "Serbo-American," I had to step in again using...
He basically proved that he isn't—well, I guess you could say it's just not for Americans. Snow White What we have going on with our people out East—well, I guess you could say it's just how things tend to play out there.
I guess I should probably mention something about the neighbors—not that anyone really asked, but it's been on my mind lately. It’s one of those things where you just sort of observe from a distance, maybe over a cup of coffee, wondering how everyone ended up living exactly like this. It’s a bit strange, honestly—how much we all just... exist alongside each other without actually knowing anything. Anyway, just a random thought. Snow White ...so, I ended up bringing up the whole history behind where the word "necktie" actually comes from.
I guess it was because of his American roots—anyway, that probably finally shut him up, since he hasn't come back with any more of those claims of his.
Everything stays on a cultural level—with actual proof to back it up.
...with some examples...

Well, what about this side of things? It’s a completely different world over here—even if they do make a big show of appealing to gentleness:

You know, there’s that old saying—the Golden Rule, I guess—about not doing to others what you wouldn't want done to yourself. It sounds simple enough, almost cliché, but when you actually stop to think about it... well, it gets complicated. Most people say they live by it, but then life happens, or maybe it's just human nature being, well, human. I don't know. It's probably easier said than done in practice, but it's a decent baseline to aim for, I suppose.
Let’s try to keep the fighting and the insults to a minimum—it’s probably better if we all just focus on actually contributing something useful to this Reddit thread.
I don't know—it’s hard to say for sure without more context, I guess. Looking at how things have been lately, maybe we should just wait and see if anything actually changes. It feels like one of those situations where everyone is talking at once, but nobody is really listening, which is pretty typical for politics, isn't it? Anyway, I was reading this thing on Reddit the other day about similar issues in Chicago, and it made me think that we might be heading down a similar path here in the States. Not that I'm an expert or anything—definitely not—but you can kind of see the patterns forming. It's all a bit much, honestly. Just my two cents, though.

Honestly, I don't think this Reddit can be anything other than a mirror of society—because, let's face it, it just isn't.
He isn't actually outside of society—he’s more like its reflection... I guess. Or maybe just a mirror held up to it, if you want to get all philosophical about it. It's less about him being an outsider and more about how he basically embodies everything else, which—let's be honest—isn't always the most pleasant thing to look at.

No, if any user here actually has a positive example where—I don't know—a mod actually apologized to them for... well, you know.
So, I guess we're back at this... did he actually go too far with how he handled him, or was it just a case of overreacting? Maybe he was being way too aggressive, or maybe—and this is just my two cents—he was actually being a bit too lenient. It’s hard to say, really. It feels like one of those situations where there isn't a clear right answer, which is always the most annoying part, I suppose.

So, if there happens to be anyone out there who—after getting a warning from a moderator and maybe catching up on some much-needed sleep—decides to...
He basically rolled over after getting called out—admitted everything and gave his word. Yeah, maybe I shouldn't have done that—or that, or whatever—I guess.
I guess I should probably start by saying sorry—just my way of clearing the air, I suppose.... feel free to jump in here...
Does an apology combined with a confession actually count as a mitigating factor—you know, like something that could potentially lead to a lighter sentence?

Or, what if one user actually owns up to it and apologizes to someone else for messing up...?

Maybe we could highlight some of those positive examples to push for change...

Jose Edwards16 said:No, if anyone here actually has a positive example where—I don't know—a mod actually apologized to them for...
Did he go too far with how he handled him, or was it actually just enough? I can't quite decide!

I know plenty of people like that—actually, I’m right there with them! But since I'm not an active user at the moment, I'm guessing this won't count for anything.

Jose Edwards16 said:So, if there's anyone out there who, after getting a warning from a mod and finally catching some decent sleep...
He took the warning to heart and finally owned up to it: Yeah, maybe I shouldn't have done that or whatever. My bad!
My bad, sorry about that!Feel free to jump in here! Anyone can chime in.
Does an apology plus a confession actually count as a mitigating factor? Like, could it lead to a lighter sentence?

I mean, I earned my cards. Seriously. I don't see any reason why they should be taken away when I know I worked my tail off for them!

This stuff happens every single day. Seriously. Even last night, a few people on Reddit were chiming in, saying they deserved a ban and even throwing out suggestions on what we could fix.

Jose Edwards16 said:Or, what if someone actually stepped up and owned their mistake? Like, just admitted they were wrong to another user?
Let’s highlight some actual wins for once! We need more positive examples of things actually changing for the better.

I'm all over this Reddit every single day, dozens of times!

What's even the point of this thread? Seriously.

An anti-complaint book for moderators? Honestly, we don't need that. It’s enough if there just aren't many valid reasons to complain about them in the first place!

Look, you really think everyone’s out here fighting with the mods like you are? Trust me, they aren't. You don't even need my word on it. Just go scroll through some of the other threads on Reddit—seriously, just dive into the different PDFs and sub-topics. You'll see tons of totally normal conversations happening. Plenty of heated, smart debates between the mods and users, too. It's all good!

P.S. Seriously, just once, try to hold back on the massive off-topic tangents and those epic sagas that belong in a Russian novel!

Here’s a recent example, starting from post 1607.

A quick heads-up to the "old-timers" on how to handle this discussion:

Charles Davis88 said:Look, guys, just let Mr. Black Jacko speak. The man is being civil enough—aside from that polymer misunderstanding, which I really hope stays an isolated incident 😉. He's a far cry from the preachy types we've had to deal with from certain Americans abroad.
If he's getting under your skin, just put him on ignore. As long as he isn't trolling, he's entitled to his opinion. 🤷

The responses:

Emericzy said:Sorry, Colby, I already jumped the gun before your warning. I'll back off. I'll leave the guy alone. Honestly, he isn't some rude nuisance; I'll admit that much. That's why I've been showing him some Gentleness. 🙂

judolino said:Alright, like Charles Davis88 said, you're entitled to your opinion.

I ended up getting a warning—with an apology, mind you—after walking them through a misunderstanding on the Politics subreddit. To top it off, one of the admins actually suspected I was some kind of bot account, though we cleared that up via PM after I offered an apology as well. Honestly, I don't see what the big deal is.🤷

I actually had two entire cases taken away from me (and honestly, I can't even blame them).

So I actually experienced getting a ban lifted along with an apology. Honestly, why is anyone even surprised?🤷

The way I see it, the whole point is to file an appeal that’s actually reasoned and civil. If you got flagged unfairly—like if the moderator totally misread what you were trying to say—just calmly explain your intent and why the penalty doesn't make sense.😉 There's at least a 75% chance🤷 they'll roll it back. Of course, if you start the whole process by being a jerk and insulting the moderator, the other users, or whoever else, then there's a 99.99% chance you won't just stay banned, you'll probably get hit with a brand new one too.

I don't get why people find this so confusing. It’s baffling to me, really.🤷

Basically, it’s perfectly normal to expect that if you treat someone with respect, they'll return the favor. Sure, there are exceptions, but you should always start with the assumption that decent, civilized communication is actually possible, rather than assuming the opposite.🤷

I haven't personally had the opportunity to witness any instances of true Gentleness when it comes to discarding those cards, not even the ones produced out of pure confusion.

That sentence probably could have wrapped up right after the word Gentleness 😁

Since this thread is already active, I might as well use it to point out an instance of moderator behavior that lacks a certain level of gentleness. Specifically, pointing out spelling and grammar mistakes where nobody asked for them—and where they aren't even relevant, given we are discussing Religious Education within the Social Science section—is simply uncalled for... It’s particularly ironic considering that back when Linguistics branched off from Social Science, it was established that such trifles are tolerated within Linguistics, yet in the rest of the Social Science department, people get reprimanded for much less... like mere hyphenation errors in declensions (!).

It would be refreshing if the moderators focused on following basic netiquette first, before attempting to enforce their own subforum rules.

Some people don't even want you to point out their flawed logic when they're making an argument. Doesn't matter to me though—if we didn't have these clashes, there wouldn't be any debates or even a Reddit to talk about. 🙂

Regarding your complaint, I’m going to quote the offending post—it'll just give more people a chance to read it and learn exactly what my point is:

I’d kindly ask everyone on this subreddit to watch their grammar.
Specifically this one detail:

Foreign words and names DO NOT take hyphens.

So,
mainstream, new age, Harry Potter.

Save the hyphens for acronyms (Republican Party, CIA, IBM).

Thanks in advance. 👍

(Yeah, I do hand out bans for this sometimes. Sue me. 😈)

A while back, I banned Jose Edwards16 after they kept intentionally using hyphens over in Linguistics. Since then, I haven't noticed them using hyphens—at least not with "us." So, I guess the adjustment process worked, at least regarding that issue. 👍
I don't think I've ever handed out bans for grammar on non-linguistic topics. Anyway, I don't recall doing so.

Even if I did (which, frankly, I doubt), nobody died from it. No one's going to walk away with incurable trauma. 😉 Of course, I'm not talking about you! You're entitled to your own opinions and feelings.

PS It's a shame you didn't start a new thread. I bet it would've gotten more views.

Regarding this specific part:

Especially since back when Linguistics split from the Social Sciences, it was established that such things are tolerated within Linguistics itself—whereas in the rest of the Social Sciences, people get tossed out for it. And I mean for pointing out actual errors, not just for hyphenation mistakes (!).

I was actually thinking about those sudden "drive-by" corrections like:

it's spelled "man," not "mann" 👎

I haven't noticed any of those lately. Since I still think hyphen usage is pretty outdated (unlike getting this/that wrong), I allow myself to step in occasionally—just a warning—on that issue. This might be the first time we've seen this on the Social Science section since the Linguistics sub-forum split off. 🙂

No, we didn't write a thirteen-point manifesto spread across four articles regarding the rule on getting kicked out.
I don't have any intention of doing that... 😉

Chloe Hughes15 said:I don't believe I've ever been flagged for grammar or spelling outside of the Linguistics threads. At any rate, I can't recall such an instance...

But I certainly remember. Not for me, perhaps, but for you. 😉 And I distinctly recall your colleague weighing in on the matter using those exact words I just quoted. So, while it might happen in Linguistics, it doesn't occur in the rest of Social Science. To be perfectly clear—it wasn't just about grammar or spelling, but rather about someone being penalized for pointing out a mistake. That is my point.

Are you really going to ask me to overlook the sheer pedantry of this unnecessary off-topic nitpicking and call it "pedagogy"?

PS It’s a shame you didn't start a new thread. I suspect it would have garnered much more attention.

I believe you've had plenty of opportunities to peddle your specific vision of the PDF as the only viable option. You don't need a dedicated thread for that. Besides, you haven't convinced me, and I doubt you ever will...

vividtiger922 said:But I remember. Not me—you... ;

Regarding the splitting up of the subreddits—honestly, I don't think I am...
I already gave an example of how it's going to be carded...

Are you really going to expect me to see any kind of actual teaching method through all this useless, off-topic nitpicking?

I'll allow it.

Look, don't take this as me nitpicking over nothing—just take it as free advice... 🙂

I think you’ve had plenty of chances to sell your vision of that PDF as the only way forward—and the most desirable one, too...

I never said that, nor is that what I meant. Please—stop putting words in my mouth... 😉

And you didn't convince me before—you aren't going to start now...

Then there’s really no point in us even arguing... 👍

It doesn't matter... UnknownI see this all the time... import I'd actually like to use this platform to point that out as well...

Chloe Hughes15 said:I don't believe I've changed my mind regarding the separation of sub-sections...
Above, I provided an example of what would result in a post being flagged.

It wouldn't hurt if, instead of resorting to demagoguery, you tried actually comprehending what is written. For instance, some time ago, a user on this Reddit had their post flagged because they pointed out an error. It was classified as off-topic. She filed a complaint, and the admins upheld the decision, agreeing the post deserved that classification. That is precisely what you did in your own post. That is the first point.

Secondly, why should Social Science be treated differently from the rest of the platform? I am thinking specifically of the lower section of Social Science. Why would something be flagged there that wouldn't be flagged anywhere else? Is it simply because Linguistics happens to be upstairs? Or perhaps because certain things are tolerated there that aren't tolerated elsewhere?

I'll allow it.

Please, allow me to frame this not as unnecessary nitpicking, but as free advice. 🙂

In this specific instance, it might pass as off-topic free advice, regardless of how Netiquette views the matter... though if it’s accompanied by a comment like "you're hilarious," one might suspect the intended goal wasn't really advice at all, but rather a final jab.

I never said that, nor is that my intention. I would kindly ask that you stop putting words in my mouth.😉

Well, I suppose I will be bold enough to form an impression of how you view the rules based on how they are actually enforced—and then, looking back at past debates and how you've voiced your stances on them, I find my conclusion is quite confirmed...

Then there is no need for us to continue this discussion.👍

Actually, this wasn't meant as a grievance, nor was it directed at your statement.

The topic is titled "Gentleness," isn't it? You chose to present an example of gentle communication, while I happen to be identifying its exact opposite... and coincidentally, that example is you. That doesn't mean I was asking for your official statement.

vividtiger922 said:Since we're already talking about this, I'll use it as a quick example of some non-Gentleness from the mod team.

I mean, calling something rude when it starts with "please" and ends with "thanks in advance" is a stretch. It's hard to call that anything but polite.

vividtiger922 said:It was flagged as off-topic. She reported him, and the admins agreed it fit the description. That’s exactly what you did in your own post. Just stating facts!

Not even looking at this specific case, if you check the rule PDFs, they actually ask users to try and watch their grammar and stuff.
It's totally different when a mod politely asks someone to clean things up versus everyone jumping in to fix every typo and turning this whole site into a Grammarly tutorial.

vividtiger922 said:Actually, this wasn't meant to be a complaint, and it definitely wasn't aimed at your comment.
The thread is called "Gentleness," right? You chose to show an example of gentle communication, and I'm just pointing out the opposite. It just so happens to involve you! Doesn't mean I was asking for your input.

That last line in the post felt a bit clunky and maybe unnecessary, but saying the post was "not gentle" is definitely a reach.

Thanks for the effort and the example! No need for any rulings since this isn't an official complaint anyway.

dustyranger64 As stated by...
It’s hard to label an example that begins with a polite request and wraps up with a sincere thank you as anything other than pure gentleness...

So, if I were to politely request that someone simply go jump in a lake, and then follow up by thanking them for taking my well-intentioned advice... I suppose I wouldn't exactly be lacking in gentleness, would I...? 😁 Ever heard the term "grammar Nazi"? In the realm of online etiquette, it’s generally considered rather uncouth... perhaps not entirely unforgivable, but certainly lacking in any sense of gentleness.

It isn’t necessarily tied to one specific instance, but within the guidelines of several PDFs, there is a polite request for users to maintain proper grammar and spelling, among other things...
There is a world of difference between a moderator stepping in with genuine politeness to ask for a bit of restraint, and this current trend where everyone feels entitled to nitpick every single post until this whole place turns into a glorified grammar workshop...

Such a request is perfectly reasonable, given that seeking clarity certainly doesn't hinder our understanding... I am simply asking a straightforward question—why was that user's post flagged as off-topic in the first place, and more importantly, what exactly was it that caught the moderators' attention?

You know, there are hundreds of other linguistic dilemmas out there. I’m convinced that if you looked at that specific thread, you'd find countless examples of much deeper, more systemic errors... But just because someone finds a misplaced hyphen more offensive than anything else doesn't give them the right to make snide remarks about a post under the guise of a "moderator warning," especially when that specific error doesn't even impact the actual meaning of the text!

That final line felt a bit clumsy and perhaps unnecessary, though I wouldn't go so far as to say the post lacked any sense of gentleness...

It might lack the right shape and the substance certainly isn't there, but the intention... well, that was clearly present. If you want to call it clumsy and unnecessary, go ahead then...

I appreciate the effort and the example provided. No rulings are actually necessary here, given that this isn't an appeal...

God forbid I would ever even consider asking for something like that... no precedents required.

vividtiger922 said:So, if I politely ask you to go screw yourself, and then I thank you for actually taking my well-meaning advice... does that mean I’m not being unkind? Just asking! 😁

That was some pretty clever trolling right there. Seriously, nothing like that was even in her original post!

vividtiger922 said:I’m asking a really simple question here—why was that user's post flagged as off-topic back then? I mean, what exactly was bothering the mods?

I already gave you my answer on that!
Maybe try actually reading what’s written for once instead of just playing the demagogue! Just a thought.

Yeah, true. It’s definitely not normal to start policing grammar on threads where it doesn't even matter!
There’s absolutely no question about it—there's zero malice or lack of gentleness here!

There’s really nothing left to say here. Especially after that tone in the first part of the post. Honestly!

dustyranger64 said:That’s some clever trolling. Nothing like that was actually in her post...

The whole metaphor about telling someone where to shove it was just meant to illustrate how a request doesn't really change the outcome—telling someone to get lost is still just telling them to get lost. Honestly, that was my first thought when I wrote it. I suppose I could have used a different analogy, though I doubt it would have changed much... oh, and my poor little smiley face is clearly losing its luster by now.

I already addressed that.
It wouldn't hurt if you tried actually understanding what's being written once in a while instead of relying on pure demagoguery.

Forgive me, but is this also trolling? 😁
And I notice you conveniently skipped over my point about how there are a million things one could nitpick, yet none of them should be pointed out by anyone except a moderator. I agree that it’s unnecessary. So, let the moderator lead by example then...

True, it isn't standard practice to police grammar in threads that aren't specifically about it.
But there is absolutely no question of malice or a lack of Gentleness.

I wonder, where exactly did I mention malice? 🤔

There isn't much left to say here. Especially given the tone of the first half of the post.

I was asking for clarification on what exactly was meant. How many times do I have to repeat that I wasn't looking for an official ruling or a verdict? I am simply exercising my right to say I don't like something, based on my own human, Redditor, professional, and other various motivations. Is this the place for that? It is. Did I ask for an answer specifically from you? No. Did I ask for an answer from the moderator? No. Of course, she is free to speak up herself, I'm not questioning that, but I didn't solicit her response. She is bothered by a minor grammatical slip and uses her moderator authority to call it out. Personally, I am bothered by the linguistic tyranny happening across the rest of this Social Science section. I am using Amtrak to point it out. That is all...

And for the record, it really wouldn't hurt if we all just stuck to our own business here. I don't bother with your tone or your attitude simply because I don't think anyone cares what I think about them. Perhaps you could be kind enough to extend that same courtesy to me. Please, just read the words, not the person writing them...

dustyranger64 said:There’s really nothing left to say here. Especially considering how they sounded in the first half of their post.

I’m kindly asking the supermods to stop letting people judge someone else's tone when they're supposed to be handling appeals in the proper section.

Thanks in advance. 😍

Sarah Doyle54 said:I would kindly ask the supermoderators to refrain from judging the tone of others when they are simply responding to appeals filed in the correct section.

Much appreciated... 😍

Just a quick correction regarding the previous statement: this isn't an appeal, regardless of how much some people might try to find one where none exists.

vividtiger922 said:Look, I was just asking for clarity. How many times do I have to say I wasn't asking for an official statement or a ruling? I’m just using my right to say I don't like something. It's a human thing, a forum thing, a professional thing—whatever. Is this what this place is for? Yes. Did I ask *you* specifically for an answer? No. Did I demand one from the moderator? No.

Aha. So you have a comment on someone's work, but that comment isn't actually directed at the explanation or arguments being made by the person you're referencing. Nor is it meant for whoever is overseeing the disputed document or the moderators.
I think you're totally missing the point of the entire forum and how these discussions are supposed to work.

vividtiger922 said:By the way, it really wouldn't hurt if we all just stuck to our own business here. Honestly, I don't even bother with your tone or how you act because I don't think anyone cares what I think about it. Maybe you could be polite enough to stop doing the same to me. Read the content, not the person. Please.

Part of a moderator's job is actually dealing with different tones used in discussions. They can get insulting or just plain weird. Clearly, you missed that.

This whole thread has been a total waste of time and feels pretty misused, so I'm locking it.