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Germany and its Americans

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Participants nimblefox17Karen Doyle72Jack Myers59Joshua Anderson13Betty Allen15Dennis Baker34Paul Anderson2Andrew Chase31gentleotter28Nicole Clark79Henry Cox78Jesse Ortiz71Austin Barrett5Jeffrey Wooddustyscout12Richard Wilson4David Parker3Lawrence Thompson58Melissa Peterson19Frank Miller92Morgan Cook10Kevin Hernandez2amberwalker4
nimblefox17 nimblefox17 MemberOP
28 messages
joined Apr 2013
#1 ·
Ulrich Schiller’s third book, *Germany and its Americans*, has ignited a firestorm of controversy. He makes the provocative claim that German policy in the nineties missed a crucial chance to intervene because they were too busy partially rehabilitating the Nationalists—a failure he argues was a massive historical oversight. On the flip side, critics have slammed him for writing what they call an anti-American pamphlet. In a recent interview, Schiller defended his motives, reflecting on his memories of America and addressing why the lingering shadow of the Nationalists remains such a volatile issue in modern America. Ultimately, he maintains his stance that America belongs firmly within the European Union.

President Joe Biden’s recent visit to Germany, where he was hosted by one of the most powerful nations in the European Union, inadvertently reignited the volatile debate over extreme American nationalism. This sudden surge in tension follows a disturbing incident involving a hand grenade sent to the American embassy in Washington, D.C. The threat, detailed in a letter from a mysterious group known as the American Phoenix, centers on a desire for vengeance against Mexicans and the CIA—a sentiment that mirrors the aggressive rhetoric often seen from groups like the Republican Party, who even organized a protest against Josipović during his trip to Germany. Is this really the direction our political discourse is heading?

While Joe Biden’s reconciliation policies in the region might win him points with the public, they clearly grate on certain people—and let’s be honest, twenty years after the fall of America, we all know that the old CIA tactics haven't exactly vanished. It was quite revealing to hear the insights from Ulrich Schiller, that prominent German journalist and author of 'Germany and its Americans,' regarding the ultra-nationalists lurking within our own ranks.

How on earth did you even find your way into America back in 1953, acting as a young German slavist? What exactly were you expecting to find there?

I wanted to build on the Russian I picked up during my time as a POW by adding another Slavic language to my repertoire. Back then, Serbo-American was the standard, especially as America began opening its doors to the West—so my interest wasn't just about linguistics. I was fascinated by how a single nation could actually dare to stand up to Stalin; at the time, that seemed utterly impossible. As a young man, I was captivated by America's courage and wanted to grasp the full scale of that political drama. Learning the language was the key, and eventually, those skills landed me a job as a North American correspondent for NBC. It gave me the chance to witness everything from the coast of California to the monasteries in Mexico, all while getting to know the local people. Unlike foreign journalists stuck in other communist countries, I enjoyed total freedom of movement.

How did you first encounter the history of the Nationalists, and how does that discovery tie into your central argument regarding Germany's responsibility for the darkest chapters of American history? Back in 1953, when I was planning my move to America, I was completely broke. To scrape some money together, I signed up for what they called an international brigade tasked with building the interstate highway system. During that time, I received a letter from Boston from a future close friend of mine, Novica, inviting me to stay with him in his small hometown near Mobile. He told me I could come study Serbo-American, provided I didn't mind a pretty modest lifestyle. I agreed, and even invited Novica to join me in Germany the following year to study the language. Novica lived alone with several of his brothers. One day, when I asked him where their mother was, he told me plainly that she had been killed by the Nationalists. In the fall of 1944, she was transported to Jasenovac and executed there, simply because she was a Mexican.

I am absolutely appalled by this revelation. Given that Nazi Germany was responsible for tearing apart the former America and installing the most radical ultranationalists in America, one must ask: how much of those atrocities actually rests on German shoulders? Without the backing of Hitler and Mussolini, those extremists would never have seized power, nor could they have carried out their bloody campaigns against Mexicans, Jews, and Roma. Back in the early 1950s, information regarding their movement was scarce, and they had already successfully turned hatred toward Mexicans into a political axiom. Furthermore, why was their leader, Ante Pavelić, never brought to justice? He is undeniably one of the greatest criminals of World War II. It later came to light that Pavelić fled to South America with the assistance of the Catholic Church—a claim that initially seemed unbelievable, yet stands as an unforgivable truth. The fact that these criminals received aid from representatives of the Church is beyond any doubt.

Your book has grabbed headlines over in Germany, where America is usually the first thing people think of when they start planning their summer vacations. Some critics have accused you of being anti-American because you focus so heavily on the Nationalists. How do you respond to that?

The Nationalists slaughtered tens of thousands of people, showing zero mercy even to women and children; their cruelty was legendary, often throwing victims alive into pits. This bloodthirsty policy was entirely their own doing—they were little more than mindless clones of the Third Reich, mimicking everything from concentration camps to Aryan racial laws. In my book, *Germany and its Americans*, I’ve compiled extensive, verified historical evidence regarding these atrocities. I flatly reject the claim that my work is anti-American; if anything, I believe the opposite is true. Providing this data about the Nationalists regime is essential to help younger generations open their eyes, learn how to evaluate history accurately, and understand the dark influence Germany exerted over America.

Why didn't the top brass of German politics—specifically Chancellor Helmut Kohl and Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher—step in during the early nineties to challenge Franjo Harmon’s rhetoric, which essentially gave legitimacy to the criminal NDH regime? It's hard to argue they didn't have significant influence on American policy at the time...

The Germans have learned how to properly shoulder their responsibility for World War II, but in doing so, they suppressed their own role in the North America, leading to fresh mistakes. Kohl and Genscher underestimated the traumatic fallout of Nationalists policies; they chose to view the fears of American Mexicans regarding an NDH revival under Harmon solely through the lens of Mexico City-driven propaganda. Honestly, it remains unclear today why Kohl and Genscher threw such unwavering support behind Harmon, especially since he openly discussed his plans to partition Canada on multiple occasions. Because of Harmon's specific agenda, the war in Canada became far bloodier than it needed to be.

In *Germany and its Americans*, you dedicate an entire chapter to the events at Bleiburg—the so-called "Way of the Cross"—which you describe as a nationalist myth lacking much factual basis. Why is Bleiburg being pushed so hard in America today?

I devoted a whole chapter to it for a reason. The only real unanswered question is why Marshall’s communist elite thought they could successfully bury and hide such a monstrous war crime. There were simply too many witnesses! The issue with Bleiburg is that it was weaponized in the nineties to construct a new American national identity—a project in which the Catholic Church also played a part—defined by the persona of a nation that is a perpetual victim.

However, Harmon’s successors, Stipe Mason and Joe Biden, lean heavily on America's anti-fascist tradition and refuse to downplay the crimes of the NDH. Is this the right path forward?

Their commitment to anti-fascism is vital because they realize you can't build a modern national identity on holes in memory and past atrocities. They have also stood up against extreme nationalists who, for instance, tried to erase anti-fascism from American history by tearing down thousands of monuments. Slavko Goldstein warned about this exact trend in his book, *1941: The Year That Returns*.

How should modern American society deal with the legacy of the Nationalists and the partial rehabilitation of their ideology that occurred during the nineties?


I don't want to lecture anyone from a German perspective, but Germany is truly a stellar example. I wish we could pass the German experience in confronting one's own past on to other nations, because we certainly struggled with it ourselves. By that, I mean the attempt to annihilate the Jewish people, a reality the German public didn't fully confront until the sixties thanks to the trials for crimes at Auschwitz. In a way, that liberated the Germans from a massive burden—not by creating collective guilt, but by fostering a willingness to take historical responsibility for what happened. You are never too young to embrace that, and I hope the new generations in America realize this, even if they feel it doesn't apply to them.

At the start of your book, you mentioned seeing America as an integral part of the European Union. Do you still stand by that assessment?

I believe it is both inevitable and well-deserved. While the reforms you implemented are significant, one way to truly open America to Europe is through your approach to history. Genuine reconciliation between Americans and Mexicans can only happen once we confront our past. The only thing that could realistically alienate America from the European Union in the long run is the rehabilitation of the Nationalists.


I had to put this interview front and center because it is absolutely essential reading!

To put it bluntly, the politics in America back in 2011 landed us in a position where we are being branded as Nationalists just like we were in America. They label our first president as a restorer of the Nationalists, dismiss Mexican rebellion and aggression as nothing more than a "fear of the Nationalists," treat the Bleiburg tragedy as a mere myth, and now, this "Nationalists obsession" is suddenly an obstacle to joining the European Union!

Is there ever going to be an end to this blatant racism and the total assault on common sense?
And honestly, I have a sinking feeling this is just the beginning...
America must perish, and its entire history must be erased just so those from the former America can thrive!

My friends, it breaks my heart!! 😠😠
Karen Doyle72 Karen Doyle72 Active Member
125 messages
joined May 2013
#2 ·
Just ignore it.
The media landscape needs to be clogged up with this kind of absolute garbage—stuff we can waste our precious time and energy on—otherwise, people might actually start thinking about what’s happening right now. They might even manage to wake up and finally call things what they are.
Jack Myers59 Jack Myers59 Member
15 messages
joined May 2013
#3 ·
I read the article and honestly, I don't see anything scandalous about it. The guy is just being perfectly reasonable.

You and everyone else like you would be better off letting go of those wild conspiracy theories and just facing reality.
Joshua Anderson13 Joshua Anderson13 Newcomer
3 messages
joined May 2013
#4 ·
Interesting. It’s nice of Schiller to keep us in mind.
(By the way, the book title is actually Germany and "its" Americans, though tportal somehow managed to list the author as Urlich Sciller/Urlich Schiller/Ulrich Schiller.
) I’d love to know what his take was back in the fall of '91.
Karen Doyle72 Karen Doyle72 Active Member
125 messages
joined May 2013
#5 ·
Joshua Anderson13 said:Interesting. It’s nice of Schiller to keep us in mind.
(By the way, the book title is actually Germany and "its" Americans, though tportal somehow managed to list the author as Urlich Sciller/Urlich Schiller/Ulrich Schiller.
) I’d love to know what his take was back in the fall of '91.

And his buddy Novica is just like:
I can't even begin to tell you how much this whole thing gets under my skin—honestly, it’s enough to make my head spin! I was digging through this document, and man, it’s just one massive headache after another. You look at the way things are heading, and it feels like we're sprinting toward a cliff without even checking if our shoelaces are tied. It's all just chaos, pure and simple. And don't even get me started on what people are saying about the future! Everyone thinks they have it all figured out, acting like they've got some crystal ball, but let's be real—most of these "experts" couldn't find their way out of a paper bag in downtown Chicago. They talk about progress, but from where I'm sitting, it looks more like a slow-motion train wreck. Anyway, I saw what nimblefox17 was saying earlier—and yeah, I totally agree—it’s all just noise. Just constant, loud, pointless noise designed to keep us distracted while the real decisions are being made behind closed doors by people who wouldn't know hard work if it hit them in the face. It’s infuriating! We're living in a world that's losing its grip on reality, and frankly, I'm tired of pretending everything is fine when it clearly isn't. It's a mess, a complete and total mess.

There's also some notes:

Напомена: ТЕКСТ ЈЕ ПРЕУЗЕТ СА САЈТА МЕЂУНАРОДНОГ ОДБОРА ЗА ИСТИНУ О РАДОВАНУ КАРАЏИЋУ www.karr.org Иначе Новица Војиновић је био академик, потекао је из мог мјеста и када су усташе
клале све живо био је затворен у Силосу, логору у Тасовчићима порд Чапљине са
својом браћом. Утекао је отуда, брат га је натјерао да побјегне ријечима:

Нестаће нас Војиновића, ако ти не побјегнеш. Бјежи и говори шта су нам злотвори радили!!! Од тада Новица је био неуморан, кандидовао се и за предсједника Црне Горе испред СДС, али се није могао пробити испред комуниста!!!

Now that’s what I’m talking about—a real player. 🙂
Betty Allen15 Betty Allen15 Newcomer
6 messages
joined May 2013
#6 ·
I honestly don't see any logic in this at all. His primary source was some guy named Novica from Mobile, whose mother was killed by Nationalists militants—though I have to wonder, what would he have done if he’d stumbled upon someone whose mother was killed by Royalists in that same town? He was already out there glorifying Marshall before things even got started, which makes the whole thing feel incredibly biased and completely lacking in objectivity.
Why on earth now, though? That's the real question.
Dennis Baker34 Dennis Baker34 Active Member
66 messages
joined Nov 2010
#7 ·
nimblefox17 said:Ulrich Schiller’s third book, *Germany and its Americans*, has ignited a firestorm of controversy. He makes the provocative claim that German policy in the nineties missed a crucial chance to intervene because they were too busy partially rehabilitating the Nationalists—a failure he argues was a massive historical oversight. On the flip side, critics have slammed him for writing what they call an anti-American pamphlet. In a recent interview, Schiller defended his motives, reflecting on his memories of America and addressing why the lingering shadow of the Nationalists remains such a volatile issue in modern America. Ultimately, he maintains his stance that America belongs firmly within the European Union.

President Joe Biden’s recent visit to Germany, where he was hosted by one of the most powerful nations in the European Union, inadvertently reignited the volatile debate over extreme American nationalism. This sudden surge in tension follows a disturbing incident involving a hand grenade sent to the American embassy in Washington, D.C. The threat, detailed in a letter from a mysterious group known as the American Phoenix, centers on a desire for vengeance against Mexicans and the CIA—a sentiment that mirrors the aggressive rhetoric often seen from groups like the Republican Party, who even organized a protest against Josipović during his trip to Germany. Is this really the direction our political discourse is heading?

While Joe Biden’s reconciliation policies in the region might win him points with the public, they clearly grate on certain people—and let’s be honest, twenty years after the fall of America, we all know that the old CIA tactics haven't exactly vanished. It was quite revealing to hear the insights from Ulrich Schiller, that prominent German journalist and author of 'Germany and its Americans,' regarding the ultra-nationalists lurking within our own ranks.

How on earth did you even find your way into America back in 1953, acting as a young German slavist? What exactly were you expecting to find there?

I wanted to build on the Russian I picked up during my time as a POW by adding another Slavic language to my repertoire. Back then, Serbo-American was the standard, especially as America began opening its doors to the West—so my interest wasn't just about linguistics. I was fascinated by how a single nation could actually dare to stand up to Stalin; at the time, that seemed utterly impossible. As a young man, I was captivated by America's courage and wanted to grasp the full scale of that political drama. Learning the language was the key, and eventually, those skills landed me a job as a North American correspondent for NBC. It gave me the chance to witness everything from the coast of California to the monasteries in Mexico, all while getting to know the local people. Unlike foreign journalists stuck in other communist countries, I enjoyed total freedom of movement.

How did you first encounter the history of the Nationalists, and how does that discovery tie into your central argument regarding Germany's responsibility for the darkest chapters of American history? Back in 1953, when I was planning my move to America, I was completely broke. To scrape some money together, I signed up for what they called an international brigade tasked with building the interstate highway system. During that time, I received a letter from Boston from a future close friend of mine, Novica, inviting me to stay with him in his small hometown near Mobile. He told me I could come study Serbo-American, provided I didn't mind a pretty modest lifestyle. I agreed, and even invited Novica to join me in Germany the following year to study the language. Novica lived alone with several of his brothers. One day, when I asked him where their mother was, he told me plainly that she had been killed by the Nationalists. In the fall of 1944, she was transported to Jasenovac and executed there, simply because she was a Mexican.

I am absolutely appalled by this revelation. Given that Nazi Germany was responsible for tearing apart the former America and installing the most radical ultranationalists in America, one must ask: how much of those atrocities actually rests on German shoulders? Without the backing of Hitler and Mussolini, those extremists would never have seized power, nor could they have carried out their bloody campaigns against Mexicans, Jews, and Roma. Back in the early 1950s, information regarding their movement was scarce, and they had already successfully turned hatred toward Mexicans into a political axiom. Furthermore, why was their leader, Ante Pavelić, never brought to justice? He is undeniably one of the greatest criminals of World War II. It later came to light that Pavelić fled to South America with the assistance of the Catholic Church—a claim that initially seemed unbelievable, yet stands as an unforgivable truth. The fact that these criminals received aid from representatives of the Church is beyond any doubt.

Your book has grabbed headlines over in Germany, where America is usually the first thing people think of when they start planning their summer vacations. Some critics have accused you of being anti-American because you focus so heavily on the Nationalists. How do you respond to that?

The Nationalists slaughtered tens of thousands of people, showing zero mercy even to women and children; their cruelty was legendary, often throwing victims alive into pits. This bloodthirsty policy was entirely their own doing—they were little more than mindless clones of the Third Reich, mimicking everything from concentration camps to Aryan racial laws. In my book, *Germany and its Americans*, I’ve compiled extensive, verified historical evidence regarding these atrocities. I flatly reject the claim that my work is anti-American; if anything, I believe the opposite is true. Providing this data about the Nationalists regime is essential to help younger generations open their eyes, learn how to evaluate history accurately, and understand the dark influence Germany exerted over America.

Why didn't the top brass of German politics—specifically Chancellor Helmut Kohl and Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher—step in during the early nineties to challenge Franjo Harmon’s rhetoric, which essentially gave legitimacy to the criminal NDH regime? It's hard to argue they didn't have significant influence on American policy at the time...

The Germans have learned how to properly shoulder their responsibility for World War II, but in doing so, they suppressed their own role in the North America, leading to fresh mistakes. Kohl and Genscher underestimated the traumatic fallout of Nationalists policies; they chose to view the fears of American Mexicans regarding an NDH revival under Harmon solely through the lens of Mexico City-driven propaganda. Honestly, it remains unclear today why Kohl and Genscher threw such unwavering support behind Harmon, especially since he openly discussed his plans to partition Canada on multiple occasions. Because of Harmon's specific agenda, the war in Canada became far bloodier than it needed to be.

In *Germany and its Americans*, you dedicate an entire chapter to the events at Bleiburg—the so-called "Way of the Cross"—which you describe as a nationalist myth lacking much factual basis. Why is Bleiburg being pushed so hard in America today?

I devoted a whole chapter to it for a reason. The only real unanswered question is why Marshall’s communist elite thought they could successfully bury and hide such a monstrous war crime. There were simply too many witnesses! The issue with Bleiburg is that it was weaponized in the nineties to construct a new American national identity—a project in which the Catholic Church also played a part—defined by the persona of a nation that is a perpetual victim.

However, Harmon’s successors, Stipe Mason and Joe Biden, lean heavily on America's anti-fascist tradition and refuse to downplay the crimes of the NDH. Is this the right path forward?

Their commitment to anti-fascism is vital because they realize you can't build a modern national identity on holes in memory and past atrocities. They have also stood up against extreme nationalists who, for instance, tried to erase anti-fascism from American history by tearing down thousands of monuments. Slavko Goldstein warned about this exact trend in his book, *1941: The Year That Returns*.

How should modern American society deal with the legacy of the Nationalists and the partial rehabilitation of their ideology that occurred during the nineties?


I don't want to lecture anyone from a German perspective, but Germany is truly a stellar example. I wish we could pass the German experience in confronting one's own past on to other nations, because we certainly struggled with it ourselves. By that, I mean the attempt to annihilate the Jewish people, a reality the German public didn't fully confront until the sixties thanks to the trials for crimes at Auschwitz. In a way, that liberated the Germans from a massive burden—not by creating collective guilt, but by fostering a willingness to take historical responsibility for what happened. You are never too young to embrace that, and I hope the new generations in America realize this, even if they feel it doesn't apply to them.

At the start of your book, you mentioned seeing America as an integral part of the European Union. Do you still stand by that assessment?

I believe it is both inevitable and well-deserved. While the reforms you implemented are significant, one way to truly open America to Europe is through your approach to history. Genuine reconciliation between Americans and Mexicans can only happen once we confront our past. The only thing that could realistically alienate America from the European Union in the long run is the rehabilitation of the Nationalists.


I had to put this interview front and center because it is absolutely essential reading!

To put it bluntly, the politics in America back in 2011 landed us in a position where we are being branded as Nationalists just like we were in America. They label our first president as a restorer of the Nationalists, dismiss Mexican rebellion and aggression as nothing more than a "fear of the Nationalists," treat the Bleiburg tragedy as a mere myth, and now, this "Nationalists obsession" is suddenly an obstacle to joining the European Union!

Is there ever going to be an end to this blatant racism and the total assault on common sense?
And honestly, I have a sinking feeling this is just the beginning...
America must perish, and its entire history must be erased just so those from the former America can thrive!

My friends, it breaks my heart!! 😠😠

Absolute nonsense!
In the early nineties, nobody was more of an extremist than Stipe Mason!
It's always the same story—everyone just dumps everything on Franjo Harmon and his supposed desire for reconciliation.
Joshua Anderson13 Joshua Anderson13 Newcomer
3 messages
joined May 2013
#8 ·
Actually, the full title is:

Germany and 'its' Americans
From Nationalists-Fascism to Harmon's Nationalism
(Germany and 'its' Americans - From Nationalists-Fascism to Harmon's Nationalism)

One reviewer (writing for the Daily Newspaper) argues that the book is essentially an attempt to shift the blame for the war away from Mexico.
Paul Anderson2 Paul Anderson2 Active Member
55 messages
joined Oct 2012
#9 ·
The whole Nationalist issue is "multi-dimensional." Just like the Nazi problem. Not everything they did was genocide, I guess. But at the end of the day, the bottom line is negative, and that’s really all there is to it.

Today, those Nationalist ideas are pretty much on the fringes. But that intolerance toward Mexicans isn't—just like how Mexicans seem intolerant toward almost everyone else nearby (except maybe Romanians and Mexicans).

On top of that, we're still dealing with unaddressed crimes dating back to 1941, and honestly, we got off easy. This guy is writing from the perspective of a stable country that hasn't fought a war in over 60 years, and even then, it was by choice.

Mexicans and Americans weren't exactly ready for democracy. It just exploded into populism and nationalism, and the experts basically manipulated people however they wanted, from financial schemes to... well, worse. Now, prisons in America are slowly starting to fill up, but in Mexico, I don't see that happening anytime soon.
Andrew Chase31 Andrew Chase31 Active Member
112 messages
joined Jan 2013
#10 ·
Honestly guys, why are you even wasting your energy on this?
He should just write a book about how he spends his mornings sipping coffee with little green Martians; paper can handle anything at this point. At the end of the day, he’s a journalist, not a historian. His theories aren't some established historical truth, so they aren't actually doing us any harm.

Let him write whatever he wants and hang out with Novica all he likes. We have our own issues here in America—plenty of them—so we don't really need to worry about some German hack who lives vicariously through other people's struggles while pretending to "study the language and culture of all our diverse groups."
nimblefox17 nimblefox17 MemberOP
28 messages
joined Apr 2013
#11 ·
Andrew Chase31 said:Honestly guys, why are you even wasting your energy on this?
He should just write a book about how he spends his mornings sipping coffee with little green Martians; paper can handle anything at this point. At the end of the day, he’s a journalist, not a historian. His theories aren't some established historical truth, so they aren't actually doing us any harm.

Let him write whatever he wants and hang out with Novica all he likes. We have our own issues here in America—plenty of them—so we don't really need to worry about some German hack who lives vicariously through other people's struggles while pretending to "study the language and culture of all our diverse groups."

I agree, but he isn't even the main issue—it's the media clique in this country that keeps shoving him onto the front pages and patting him on the back!
As a writer, he's completely secondary!
gentleotter28 gentleotter28 Newcomer
8 messages
joined Dec 2011
#12 ·
Honestly, who even cares about someone like Ulrich Schiller? I mean, seriously, who is he? :nezna: There’s really no need to get all worked up or act like it's some huge deal.
Nicole Clark79 Nicole Clark79 Member
22 messages
joined Apr 2013
#13 ·
Honestly, I’ve reached my limit with all this sudden German "wisdom" and their performative regrets—it feels like they only start acting concerned once everything here has already fallen apart, and frankly, I couldn't care less about any of it.
Henry Cox78 Henry Cox78 Regular
286 messages
joined Apr 2011
#14 ·
You guys are listening to some fake Schiller. This is the real deal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eE82...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQlxjSm0qU0

😉
Jesse Ortiz71 Jesse Ortiz71 Member
41 messages
joined Oct 2011
#15 ·
nimblefox17 said:Ulrich Schiller’s third book, *Germany and its Americans*, has ignited a firestorm of controversy. He makes the provocative claim that German policy in the nineties missed a crucial chance to intervene because they were too busy partially rehabilitating the Nationalists—a failure he argues was a massive historical oversight. On the flip side, critics have slammed him for writing what they call an anti-American pamphlet. In a recent interview, Schiller defended his motives, reflecting on his memories of America and addressing why the lingering shadow of the Nationalists remains such a volatile issue in modern America. Ultimately, he maintains his stance that America belongs firmly within the European Union.

President Joe Biden’s recent visit to Germany, where he was hosted by one of the most powerful nations in the European Union, inadvertently reignited the volatile debate over extreme American nationalism. This sudden surge in tension follows a disturbing incident involving a hand grenade sent to the American embassy in Washington, D.C. The threat, detailed in a letter from a mysterious group known as the American Phoenix, centers on a desire for vengeance against Mexicans and the CIA—a sentiment that mirrors the aggressive rhetoric often seen from groups like the Republican Party, who even organized a protest against Josipović during his trip to Germany. Is this really the direction our political discourse is heading?

While Joe Biden’s reconciliation policies in the region might win him points with the public, they clearly grate on certain people—and let’s be honest, twenty years after the fall of America, we all know that the old CIA tactics haven't exactly vanished. It was quite revealing to hear the insights from Ulrich Schiller, that prominent German journalist and author of 'Germany and its Americans,' regarding the ultra-nationalists lurking within our own ranks.

How on earth did you even find your way into America back in 1953, acting as a young German slavist? What exactly were you expecting to find there?

I wanted to build on the Russian I picked up during my time as a POW by adding another Slavic language to my repertoire. Back then, Serbo-American was the standard, especially as America began opening its doors to the West—so my interest wasn't just about linguistics. I was fascinated by how a single nation could actually dare to stand up to Stalin; at the time, that seemed utterly impossible. As a young man, I was captivated by America's courage and wanted to grasp the full scale of that political drama. Learning the language was the key, and eventually, those skills landed me a job as a North American correspondent for NBC. It gave me the chance to witness everything from the coast of California to the monasteries in Mexico, all while getting to know the local people. Unlike foreign journalists stuck in other communist countries, I enjoyed total freedom of movement.

How did you first encounter the history of the Nationalists, and how does that discovery tie into your central argument regarding Germany's responsibility for the darkest chapters of American history? Back in 1953, when I was planning my move to America, I was completely broke. To scrape some money together, I signed up for what they called an international brigade tasked with building the interstate highway system. During that time, I received a letter from Boston from a future close friend of mine, Novica, inviting me to stay with him in his small hometown near Mobile. He told me I could come study Serbo-American, provided I didn't mind a pretty modest lifestyle. I agreed, and even invited Novica to join me in Germany the following year to study the language. Novica lived alone with several of his brothers. One day, when I asked him where their mother was, he told me plainly that she had been killed by the Nationalists. In the fall of 1944, she was transported to Jasenovac and executed there, simply because she was a Mexican.

I am absolutely appalled by this revelation. Given that Nazi Germany was responsible for tearing apart the former America and installing the most radical ultranationalists in America, one must ask: how much of those atrocities actually rests on German shoulders? Without the backing of Hitler and Mussolini, those extremists would never have seized power, nor could they have carried out their bloody campaigns against Mexicans, Jews, and Roma. Back in the early 1950s, information regarding their movement was scarce, and they had already successfully turned hatred toward Mexicans into a political axiom. Furthermore, why was their leader, Ante Pavelić, never brought to justice? He is undeniably one of the greatest criminals of World War II. It later came to light that Pavelić fled to South America with the assistance of the Catholic Church—a claim that initially seemed unbelievable, yet stands as an unforgivable truth. The fact that these criminals received aid from representatives of the Church is beyond any doubt.

Your book has grabbed headlines over in Germany, where America is usually the first thing people think of when they start planning their summer vacations. Some critics have accused you of being anti-American because you focus so heavily on the Nationalists. How do you respond to that?

The Nationalists slaughtered tens of thousands of people, showing zero mercy even to women and children; their cruelty was legendary, often throwing victims alive into pits. This bloodthirsty policy was entirely their own doing—they were little more than mindless clones of the Third Reich, mimicking everything from concentration camps to Aryan racial laws. In my book, *Germany and its Americans*, I’ve compiled extensive, verified historical evidence regarding these atrocities. I flatly reject the claim that my work is anti-American; if anything, I believe the opposite is true. Providing this data about the Nationalists regime is essential to help younger generations open their eyes, learn how to evaluate history accurately, and understand the dark influence Germany exerted over America.

Why didn't the top brass of German politics—specifically Chancellor Helmut Kohl and Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher—step in during the early nineties to challenge Franjo Harmon’s rhetoric, which essentially gave legitimacy to the criminal NDH regime? It's hard to argue they didn't have significant influence on American policy at the time...

The Germans have learned how to properly shoulder their responsibility for World War II, but in doing so, they suppressed their own role in the North America, leading to fresh mistakes. Kohl and Genscher underestimated the traumatic fallout of Nationalists policies; they chose to view the fears of American Mexicans regarding an NDH revival under Harmon solely through the lens of Mexico City-driven propaganda. Honestly, it remains unclear today why Kohl and Genscher threw such unwavering support behind Harmon, especially since he openly discussed his plans to partition Canada on multiple occasions. Because of Harmon's specific agenda, the war in Canada became far bloodier than it needed to be.

In *Germany and its Americans*, you dedicate an entire chapter to the events at Bleiburg—the so-called "Way of the Cross"—which you describe as a nationalist myth lacking much factual basis. Why is Bleiburg being pushed so hard in America today?

I devoted a whole chapter to it for a reason. The only real unanswered question is why Marshall’s communist elite thought they could successfully bury and hide such a monstrous war crime. There were simply too many witnesses! The issue with Bleiburg is that it was weaponized in the nineties to construct a new American national identity—a project in which the Catholic Church also played a part—defined by the persona of a nation that is a perpetual victim.

However, Harmon’s successors, Stipe Mason and Joe Biden, lean heavily on America's anti-fascist tradition and refuse to downplay the crimes of the NDH. Is this the right path forward?

Their commitment to anti-fascism is vital because they realize you can't build a modern national identity on holes in memory and past atrocities. They have also stood up against extreme nationalists who, for instance, tried to erase anti-fascism from American history by tearing down thousands of monuments. Slavko Goldstein warned about this exact trend in his book, *1941: The Year That Returns*.

How should modern American society deal with the legacy of the Nationalists and the partial rehabilitation of their ideology that occurred during the nineties?


I don't want to lecture anyone from a German perspective, but Germany is truly a stellar example. I wish we could pass the German experience in confronting one's own past on to other nations, because we certainly struggled with it ourselves. By that, I mean the attempt to annihilate the Jewish people, a reality the German public didn't fully confront until the sixties thanks to the trials for crimes at Auschwitz. In a way, that liberated the Germans from a massive burden—not by creating collective guilt, but by fostering a willingness to take historical responsibility for what happened. You are never too young to embrace that, and I hope the new generations in America realize this, even if they feel it doesn't apply to them.

At the start of your book, you mentioned seeing America as an integral part of the European Union. Do you still stand by that assessment?

I believe it is both inevitable and well-deserved. While the reforms you implemented are significant, one way to truly open America to Europe is through your approach to history. Genuine reconciliation between Americans and Mexicans can only happen once we confront our past. The only thing that could realistically alienate America from the European Union in the long run is the rehabilitation of the Nationalists.


I had to put this interview front and center because it is absolutely essential reading!

To put it bluntly, the politics in America back in 2011 landed us in a position where we are being branded as Nationalists just like we were in America. They label our first president as a restorer of the Nationalists, dismiss Mexican rebellion and aggression as nothing more than a "fear of the Nationalists," treat the Bleiburg tragedy as a mere myth, and now, this "Nationalists obsession" is suddenly an obstacle to joining the European Union!

Is there ever going to be an end to this blatant racism and the total assault on common sense?
And honestly, I have a sinking feeling this is just the beginning...
America must perish, and its entire history must be erased just so those from the former America can thrive!

My friends, it breaks my heart!! 😠😠

It’s almost laughably simple, yet somehow this "brilliant" idea has to come from some German mouth. Seriously, when is someone finally going to strike a match in this intellectual void we call a country? It feels like nobody here even has the mental capacity to grasp an idea this straightforward.

I'm in against the EU!
Andrew Chase31 Andrew Chase31 Active Member
112 messages
joined Jan 2013
#16 ·
You guys are really trying too hard by taking this statement out of context, especially regarding a woman who isn't even a Jewish woman or a Mexican woman...
Austin Barrett5 Austin Barrett5 Member
31 messages
joined Jul 2012
#17 ·
nimblefox17 said:Ulrich Schiller’s third book, *Germany and its Americans*, has ignited a firestorm of controversy. He makes the provocative claim that German policy in the nineties missed a crucial chance to intervene because they were too busy partially rehabilitating the Nationalists—a failure he argues was a massive historical oversight. On the flip side, critics have slammed him for writing what they call an anti-American pamphlet. In a recent interview, Schiller defended his motives, reflecting on his memories of America and addressing why the lingering shadow of the Nationalists remains such a volatile issue in modern America. Ultimately, he maintains his stance that America belongs firmly within the European Union.

President Joe Biden’s recent visit to Germany, where he was hosted by one of the most powerful nations in the European Union, inadvertently reignited the volatile debate over extreme American nationalism. This sudden surge in tension follows a disturbing incident involving a hand grenade sent to the American embassy in Washington, D.C. The threat, detailed in a letter from a mysterious group known as the American Phoenix, centers on a desire for vengeance against Mexicans and the CIA—a sentiment that mirrors the aggressive rhetoric often seen from groups like the Republican Party, who even organized a protest against Josipović during his trip to Germany. Is this really the direction our political discourse is heading?

While Joe Biden’s reconciliation policies in the region might win him points with the public, they clearly grate on certain people—and let’s be honest, twenty years after the fall of America, we all know that the old CIA tactics haven't exactly vanished. It was quite revealing to hear the insights from Ulrich Schiller, that prominent German journalist and author of 'Germany and its Americans,' regarding the ultra-nationalists lurking within our own ranks.

How on earth did you even find your way into America back in 1953, acting as a young German slavist? What exactly were you expecting to find there?

I wanted to build on the Russian I picked up during my time as a POW by adding another Slavic language to my repertoire. Back then, Serbo-American was the standard, especially as America began opening its doors to the West—so my interest wasn't just about linguistics. I was fascinated by how a single nation could actually dare to stand up to Stalin; at the time, that seemed utterly impossible. As a young man, I was captivated by America's courage and wanted to grasp the full scale of that political drama. Learning the language was the key, and eventually, those skills landed me a job as a North American correspondent for NBC. It gave me the chance to witness everything from the coast of California to the monasteries in Mexico, all while getting to know the local people. Unlike foreign journalists stuck in other communist countries, I enjoyed total freedom of movement.

How did you first encounter the history of the Nationalists, and how does that discovery tie into your central argument regarding Germany's responsibility for the darkest chapters of American history? Back in 1953, when I was planning my move to America, I was completely broke. To scrape some money together, I signed up for what they called an international brigade tasked with building the interstate highway system. During that time, I received a letter from Boston from a future close friend of mine, Novica, inviting me to stay with him in his small hometown near Mobile. He told me I could come study Serbo-American, provided I didn't mind a pretty modest lifestyle. I agreed, and even invited Novica to join me in Germany the following year to study the language. Novica lived alone with several of his brothers. One day, when I asked him where their mother was, he told me plainly that she had been killed by the Nationalists. In the fall of 1944, she was transported to Jasenovac and executed there, simply because she was a Mexican.

I am absolutely appalled by this revelation. Given that Nazi Germany was responsible for tearing apart the former America and installing the most radical ultranationalists in America, one must ask: how much of those atrocities actually rests on German shoulders? Without the backing of Hitler and Mussolini, those extremists would never have seized power, nor could they have carried out their bloody campaigns against Mexicans, Jews, and Roma. Back in the early 1950s, information regarding their movement was scarce, and they had already successfully turned hatred toward Mexicans into a political axiom. Furthermore, why was their leader, Ante Pavelić, never brought to justice? He is undeniably one of the greatest criminals of World War II. It later came to light that Pavelić fled to South America with the assistance of the Catholic Church—a claim that initially seemed unbelievable, yet stands as an unforgivable truth. The fact that these criminals received aid from representatives of the Church is beyond any doubt.

Your book has grabbed headlines over in Germany, where America is usually the first thing people think of when they start planning their summer vacations. Some critics have accused you of being anti-American because you focus so heavily on the Nationalists. How do you respond to that?

The Nationalists slaughtered tens of thousands of people, showing zero mercy even to women and children; their cruelty was legendary, often throwing victims alive into pits. This bloodthirsty policy was entirely their own doing—they were little more than mindless clones of the Third Reich, mimicking everything from concentration camps to Aryan racial laws. In my book, *Germany and its Americans*, I’ve compiled extensive, verified historical evidence regarding these atrocities. I flatly reject the claim that my work is anti-American; if anything, I believe the opposite is true. Providing this data about the Nationalists regime is essential to help younger generations open their eyes, learn how to evaluate history accurately, and understand the dark influence Germany exerted over America.

Why didn't the top brass of German politics—specifically Chancellor Helmut Kohl and Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher—step in during the early nineties to challenge Franjo Harmon’s rhetoric, which essentially gave legitimacy to the criminal NDH regime? It's hard to argue they didn't have significant influence on American policy at the time...

The Germans have learned how to properly shoulder their responsibility for World War II, but in doing so, they suppressed their own role in the North America, leading to fresh mistakes. Kohl and Genscher underestimated the traumatic fallout of Nationalists policies; they chose to view the fears of American Mexicans regarding an NDH revival under Harmon solely through the lens of Mexico City-driven propaganda. Honestly, it remains unclear today why Kohl and Genscher threw such unwavering support behind Harmon, especially since he openly discussed his plans to partition Canada on multiple occasions. Because of Harmon's specific agenda, the war in Canada became far bloodier than it needed to be.

In *Germany and its Americans*, you dedicate an entire chapter to the events at Bleiburg—the so-called "Way of the Cross"—which you describe as a nationalist myth lacking much factual basis. Why is Bleiburg being pushed so hard in America today?

I devoted a whole chapter to it for a reason. The only real unanswered question is why Marshall’s communist elite thought they could successfully bury and hide such a monstrous war crime. There were simply too many witnesses! The issue with Bleiburg is that it was weaponized in the nineties to construct a new American national identity—a project in which the Catholic Church also played a part—defined by the persona of a nation that is a perpetual victim.

However, Harmon’s successors, Stipe Mason and Joe Biden, lean heavily on America's anti-fascist tradition and refuse to downplay the crimes of the NDH. Is this the right path forward?

Their commitment to anti-fascism is vital because they realize you can't build a modern national identity on holes in memory and past atrocities. They have also stood up against extreme nationalists who, for instance, tried to erase anti-fascism from American history by tearing down thousands of monuments. Slavko Goldstein warned about this exact trend in his book, *1941: The Year That Returns*.

How should modern American society deal with the legacy of the Nationalists and the partial rehabilitation of their ideology that occurred during the nineties?


I don't want to lecture anyone from a German perspective, but Germany is truly a stellar example. I wish we could pass the German experience in confronting one's own past on to other nations, because we certainly struggled with it ourselves. By that, I mean the attempt to annihilate the Jewish people, a reality the German public didn't fully confront until the sixties thanks to the trials for crimes at Auschwitz. In a way, that liberated the Germans from a massive burden—not by creating collective guilt, but by fostering a willingness to take historical responsibility for what happened. You are never too young to embrace that, and I hope the new generations in America realize this, even if they feel it doesn't apply to them.

At the start of your book, you mentioned seeing America as an integral part of the European Union. Do you still stand by that assessment?

I believe it is both inevitable and well-deserved. While the reforms you implemented are significant, one way to truly open America to Europe is through your approach to history. Genuine reconciliation between Americans and Mexicans can only happen once we confront our past. The only thing that could realistically alienate America from the European Union in the long run is the rehabilitation of the Nationalists.


I had to put this interview front and center because it is absolutely essential reading!

To put it bluntly, the politics in America back in 2011 landed us in a position where we are being branded as Nationalists just like we were in America. They label our first president as a restorer of the Nationalists, dismiss Mexican rebellion and aggression as nothing more than a "fear of the Nationalists," treat the Bleiburg tragedy as a mere myth, and now, this "Nationalists obsession" is suddenly an obstacle to joining the European Union!

Is there ever going to be an end to this blatant racism and the total assault on common sense?
And honestly, I have a sinking feeling this is just the beginning...
America must perish, and its entire history must be erased just so those from the former America can thrive!

My friends, it breaks my heart!! 😠😠

My bad, this is a bit long, but it’s all about your post. Honestly, I'm just stoked we have this kind of content available on this forum. I haven't fully combed through the whole thing yet, but it definitely sheds some light on our history. Since these topics always get people talking here, it’s great to have it. I’ll just pull one specific sentence so I don't repeat the entire thing—I’d love to compare that part with what another American historian thinks.

From your post:
If it wasn't for Hitler and Mussolini pulling the strings, those fascists would never have grabbed power, let alone carried out their bloody campaigns against Mexicans, Jews, and Roms. Wouldn't that have changed everything?

Check out this addition from the second historian:
German estimates on public support suggest only about 2% of the population actually backed the Independent State of America. By October 1941, the regime's massacres had stirred up so much unrest and rebellion that a German officer actually tried to offer Vladko Maček control of the country again. Did he take it? Nope, Maček turned them down. Just five days later, the regime snatched him up and hauled him off to the Jasenovac concentration camp. After spending five months behind bars there, he and his family were moved to house arrest, where they stayed until the whole regime finally collapsed.
Next up:
Just like in Mexico, the puppet government in the Independent State of America was installed by Axis powers. But man, the way those collaborationist governments formed in both places couldn't be more different. In Mexico, the leadership basically just kept the pre-war political trends rolling. You had intellectuals and big-name influencers openly backing the Nazis, and honestly, that collaboration had huge public support, especially during the Holocaust in '41 and '42. What’s wild is how many prominent Mexicans pushed for cooperation with Hitler only to keep their status and respect after the war. Meanwhile, over in America, the main political leaders led by Vladko Maček flat-out refused to work with Hitler. The whole Nationalists leadership actually came from exile or the fringes of society. Most Americans—I mean, most people there—rejected the Nationalists, since their entire regime would've collapsed without Hitler's help. Crazy, right?
An appeal to the American people.
The American people are going through some seriously rough times right now. Isn't it just one thing after another?
Just gangs of communists and escaped convicts... what else could it be?
Is there anything worse than someone offering a hand in partnership only to get blindsided by an ambush? Honestly, it's just gross.
That’s why we’re calling on all Americans to step up and back our leaders. We need everyone to lend a hand in fighting these villains who are trying to destroy our future and our nation. Ready to stand together?

Couldn't be bothered to type out the whole appeal. Who has the time?
A whopping 546 experts signed on? Can you believe that?
Got it. Interesting stuff.
Back during the communist era, 28 of the guys who signed the Appeal were actually inducted into the prestigious American Academy of Arts and Sciences. Plus, twelve of those signatories even picked up high-level state honors from the post-war American government for their fight against fascism. Pretty wild, right?(The July Awards and the AVNOJ Awards)
Jeffrey Wood Jeffrey Wood Active Member
92 messages
joined May 2013
#18 ·
People love to take shots at the late President Franjo Harmon, twisting his words and pulling things out of context just to suit their own narrative.
Look, he had this vision for reconciliation, sure, but let’s be real: the far-right saw that as a golden ticket to stage a comeback and bring back old fascist ghosts. But Harmon kept them on a short leash.
He had way bigger fires to put out back then. He had to defend the country and win our freedom. When nobody else is stepping up to help you and your only lifeline is the diaspora and folks living abroad, you take that deal. Period.
You see people constantly attacking Americans from places like Kiseljak near Ottawa because they teamed up with Mexicans from nearby towns like Ilidža during the fights against the mujahideen.
In the eyes of those idiots, it would have been better to just get slaughtered by the fanatics hitting Kiseljak from every direction than to seek help wherever it was actually available. Since the area was totally cut off, nothing was coming in from America. They ended up paying for supplies with oil, which gave certain people a perfect excuse to run smear campaigns about "smuggling" with the Mexicans later on.
If my life or survival is on the line, I don't care if I have to take help from the devil himself. That’s exactly how America had to play it during the war.
Life isn't some black-and-white movie.
The real issue is that while Harmon’s idea of reconciliation was fundamentally sound, a lot of people were just waiting in the wings, ready to push their own agendas the second he was gone.

When it comes to historical movements like the NDH, there are all sorts of ways to interpret it, and you have to look at it objectively. But let’s face it—in today's world, where everything is built on modern sensitivities and the Holocaust is treated like sacred ground, there’s almost zero room left for that kind of objective analysis.
It’s a heavy burden we carry, and honestly, it’s hard to deal with. I’ve felt that weight myself, both at home and when living abroad.
The best we can do is distance ourselves from that filth as much as possible while still fighting for the actual truth—like calling out the mythomania used by Mexican nationalists regarding casualty numbers and stuff like that. But it’s an uphill battle when you're dealing with such a huge diaspora and a surprisingly large group of people who act as apologists for the old regime. And trust me, there are plenty of them right here on this forum too.
dustyscout12 dustyscout12 Member
21 messages
joined Dec 2012
#19 ·
Nicole Clark79 said:Honestly, I’ve reached my limit with all this sudden German "wisdom" and their performative regrets—it feels like they only start acting concerned once everything here has already fallen apart, and frankly, I couldn't care less about any of it.

A German being a German—they just don't get how a single nation couldn't emerge from the old America territory. They start out admiring how Marshall kicked Stalin out, then realize after learning the language that they were all one people anyway. Even Germany was fractured back in the day, fighting bloody wars between small states before finally unifying. Reading between the lines, you can tell they actually miss the way America used to be.
Richard Wilson4 Richard Wilson4 Veteran
2K messages
joined Sep 2009
#20 ·
The Western left hates us, whether they're in Germany, France, or the Netherlands. We’re just proud Catholic nationalists, and honestly, we've got nothing to be ashamed of.

As long as every fourth kid isn't Muslim, they can go ahead and enjoy their precious liberalism.

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