Getting into Kenjutsu

Does anyone here practice Iai, and are there any Kenjutsu schools located in the US? Which ones?

I practice Kenjutsu and Iai (specifically Katori Shinto Ryu). Regarding my club: www.dangun.com

You can actually drop in and watch a training session there if you want...

Jonathan Johnson67 said:You can always drop by and check out a training session there.

The Bujinkan practice Kenjutsu.
Some of our local schools have their own specific styles of Kenjutsu, though I can't pinpoint the exact ones off the top of my head right now.

Kenjutsu (Zen Ken Iai) is baked right into the curriculum of the American Kendo Federation. Every single club practices it, though honestly, it’s hard to find a true parallel to how we approach Kendo. Up until now, I wouldn't say the practice of Iai has been totally walled off, but let’s be real—nobody’s exactly out there shouting from the rooftops about it or putting much effort into promoting it. Over in Chicago, there’s actually another club (iaido-kendo) that puts a bit more weight on the Iai side of things. To be honest, I couldn't tell you exactly which style they follow besides Zen Ken, and personally, I’m pretty skeptical about it. That club spent a long time under the heavy influence of S. Vogrinc from St. Augustine, which leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. If you want to get in touch with the clubs, just head over to www.kendo.hr

Jonathan Johnson67 said:It’s actually possible to go by and observe a training session there.

Of course you can.

placidbison20 said:The Bujinkan focuses on Kenjutsu.
Some of our local schools have their own specific Kenjutsu styles, though I can't say for certain which ones right now...

Honestly, you ninja types are a bit too broad for my taste.
And while I’m all for the empty-hand stuff—it's decent, really—I feel like we aren't getting nearly enough weapon work in... maybe two or three extra sessions a month at most.
So, yeah... an extra session focused primarily on weapons would be great, specifically to see how actual Kenjutsu is done.

dustywolf52 said:For sure...

I'll be swinging by on Tuesday for Kempo. Looks like the instructor hasn't changed, so... maybe I'll try to catch him for a quick word after class ends.

Secular question:
Why did the gentleman—a Canadian expert, a master of both Iai and Kendo (who’ll be at the 101st on Sunday)
claim that true Kenjutsu is incredibly rare? He mentioned that any amateur who dabbles in Kendo or Iai just opens up a "McDojo" and pretends they're teaching Kenjutsu when they actually aren't.

Gerald Smith76 said:A quick secular question here:
Why did this guy—this self-proclaimed big shot, master of both Iaido and Kendo (who’ll be at the 101 club this Sunday)
claim there are very few true Kenjutsu practitioners left, and that any punk who dabbles in a bit of Kendo or Iaido just opens up some McDojo and pretends they're teaching actual Kenjutsu when they really aren't?

Well, look, there are significantly fewer people practicing Kenjutsu compared to Kendo. I don't have the exact math, but if we use the old ballpark figure where roughly 10 million people practice Kendo globally—which isn't perfectly accurate, but you get the scale—with 9 million of them right there in Japan, then even in a best-case scenario, Kenjutsu practitioners are down by hundreds of thousands. We're talking an entire order of magnitude difference. And that's accounting for all the different styles. It shouldn't come as a shock; Kory is inherently much rarer, and what's worse, interest is actually waning.
Any individual doing Kendo and/or Iaido who intends to operate within the framework of a national federation or the International Judo Federation simply cannot claim to be practicing Kenjutsu under any circumstances.
It would be wise to actually do some homework—look at the structure of the member organizations of the American Kendo Federation, check their curriculum, and so on. You'll see that alongside the International Judo Federation, Kendo is one of those rare disciplines with a very straightforward, transparent hierarchy. That transparency basically makes "McDojos" impossible within the system. Those weird hybrids only happen with independent actors who work outside the structure, and those are the ones who might try to claim they teach Kendo, Iaido, Kenjutsu, Iaijutsu, and so on and so forth.
And honestly, it would be good to show a little respect and leave that arrogant, condescending attitude to private conversations.

crimsonbison10 said:.
It would be worth doing a bit of digging into how the various members of the international kendo federation are structured—looking at their curricula and such—to see that, alongside the International Judo Federation, kendo is one of those rare disciplines with a very straightforward, transparent setup. That kind of organization pretty much makes "McDojos" a non-issue...

that’s all well and good 👍 but I suspect that’s also just part of that specific Japanese mindset and tradition they insist on maintaining... unfortunately, the Chinese approach is quite different 😢 for instance—you'll find as many different Wing Chun federations as there are practitioners 😁. 👎

ruggedfalcon2 said:That’s all well and good, 👍 but I honestly think it's just part of that Japanese mindset—that deep-seated sense of tradition they cling to. Unfortunately, the Chinese approach is night and day compared to that... 😢 it’s like how much Wing Chun you practice, that's how much influence the Wing Chun federation holds. 😁 👎

Hmm. Fair enough. But let's be honest, the Japanese aren't exactly "without sin" either; there’s a massive rift within their organizations. You have one group that is strictly traditionalist, people who wouldn't dream of spreading or popularizing these arts outside of Japan, and then you have this other side of the population that’s actually quite globalized and willing to take on foreign students right there in Japan. It’s a bit of a tug-of-war. Still, when it comes to their external policy, they maintain a pretty solid structure that, in this day and age, could actually serve as a blueprint.

crimsonbison10 said:Fair enough. Even the Japanese aren't perfect, and there’s definitely a split within their organizations. One major reason is the divide between the hardcore traditionalists—who have zero interest in spreading these arts outside of Japan—and the more global-minded crowd that's actually open to welcoming foreign students right there in Japan. Still, when it comes to their external policy, they maintain a solid structure that serves as a decent model today.

I get that... honestly, I lean toward the traditionalist side myself🙂 but that consistency in "external policy" is what matters. Unfortunately, with the Chinese, you just don't see it... you have the traditionalists (who, by the way, often refuse to teach white students—just look at how Bruce Lee was forced to leave Ip Man simply because he was considered "half-Chinese") who are incredibly rigid, and then you have the non-traditionalists who are willing to sell any "snake oil" for a quick buck... and the kicker is they practically hate each other to the point of violence!🙄 So, when it comes to the Chinese, there's really no cohesive external strategy whatsoever.😢

ruggedfalcon2 said:I get where you're coming from... honestly, I lean more toward the traditionalist camp myself🙂 but there's got to be some kind of consistency in their "foreign policy." Unfortunately, when it comes to the Chinese, it's a mess. You have the hardcore traditionalists—who, let’s face it, often refuse to teach anyone who isn't ethnically Chinese. Just look at the way things played out with Bruce Lee; he was essentially forced to walk away from Ip because he wasn't "pure" enough. Then, on the flip side, you've got the total non-traditionalists who are willing to sell out anything just for a quick buck. And the kicker? These two groups absolutely loathe each other. It's practically a blood feud!🙄 So yeah, with the Chinese, there is zero unified external strategy.😢

It’s a massive shame, really, because in the end, that lack of cohesion trickles down and poisons the actual skill itself.

I am curious whether the Kenjutsu or Iai instructors here in the States have any superiors or an overarching organization that oversees the work of clubs like this.

jademarlin26 said:I was wondering, do the Kenjutsu or Iai instructors here have any kind of superiors or an umbrella organization overseeing how their clubs operate?

Like I touched on earlier, Iai is actually baked right into the curriculum of the All Japan Kendo Federation (ZNKR)—specifically the All Japan Iaido Federation (ZNIR). Now, you have to understand that the Iai practiced under the ZNKR, what we call Seitei Iai, is fundamentally different from the Koryu styles. Some Koryu schools are indeed members of the ZNKR—take Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu, for example—but then you also have various styles that exist entirely outside that organization, operating more or less on their own. If you want to dig deeper, you could always cross-reference that with the Koryu records held by the Nihon Kobudo Kyokai.
As far as actual instructors go, things really started picking up pace here just a few years ago, and most of the Iai development is heavily influenced by Mihalik Sensei (who holds 4th Dan Kendo and 5th Dan Iaido).
Regarding Kenjutsu, though... honestly, I couldn't tell you if a Katori Shinto Ryu instructor holds a direct license from Otaka Risuka Shihan or not.

Thanks.

crimsonbison10: "It would be wise to show some respect and keep your personal American biases regarding someone's looks to yourself."

That Canadian guy is a standout, and I didn't mean it as an insult.
What, do I need to clarify that I'm only on my fifth day of Kendo and sixth day of Iaido so you don't take it the wrong way?👍

Cross Armlock said:The guy is a total badass, I wasn't being insulting.
What, do I need to clarify that I’m only on my fifth day of Kendo and sixth of Iaido just so you don't take it the wrong way?👍

I know exactly what "badass" means. But since you brought him up right after talking about those McDojos, it didn't exactly scream "compliment" to me.