Gratitude

cosmictinker21 said:That isn't really possible, because we aren't purely spiritual beings; we're material ones too. A human being is an integrated mix of matter and energy, weaving together emotional, intellectual, physical, intuitive, and instinctive layers... it's all tangled up. My ego, in terms of consciousness, has to be present just to distinguish what's happening in the first place. On a purely instinctive level, you could try to describe a snail or a tomato that way, though even that wouldn't be quite right. Every single reaction is proof of how complex the system is, since it requires at least a receptor and a reactor. In humans, that happens at a reflex level. You have to understand at least the basics of neurology to realize there are parts of the brain specifically designed to enable consciousness and the understanding of that consciousness. If we've reached this stage of development, why deny the necessity of consciousness when it comes to gratitude

Do you honestly think a dog isn't consciously grateful?? If you've ever owned a dog, you'd know they show their gratitude very deliberately. And it’s not just to anyone—it’s to the person they love and who has been kind to them. You really think that's just pure automation? Then you clearly don't know animals. Gratitude is a highly conscious emotion; if it were just automatic, everyone would feel it. But many people don't feel it at all. Some can't even form the thought of gratitude. You're really underselling the gift of consciousness...

Just so we are clear, I am not denying any of the points you've raised; rather, I am suggesting they are tied to the ration. I have a dog and grew up surrounded by animals.

What I am referring to is primordial being—that state which exists beyond all rational dimensions, whether you choose to call it enlightenment or something else entirely.

In that dimension, we are indeed material beings, complete with all the attributes that come with physicality. Rationally speaking, I agree with everything you are saying.

However, the spiritual realm is something else altogether, and one must arrive there in their own way, along their own path, and in their own time. Nothing happens by accident; everything serves a purpose.

The same applies to gratitude; I don't "feel" it in the traditional sense, nor do I choose whom or what to direct it toward; it is simply a fundamental part of my being, much like unconditional love.

Rational gratitude or love always expects something in return; without that expectation, they cease to exist.
Primordial gratitude and love are the very fabric of the entire universe, asking for nothing in return—they simply exist. Each of us will either realize this or not, and perhaps that is precisely why we live these lives.

wearyowl29 Asks:
First you say it’s not about your ego, and then suddenly it totally is... pick a side...😉

I’m not entirely sure if slyfox23 was making a distinction between the classic concept of the ego—you know, as self-knowledge, the actual sense of self, or just basic self-awareness—and that other version of the ego. That’s the one everyone talks about when they mean selfishness, greed, or being full of oneself... that constant need to belittle others, act superior, or hunt for praise and validation, sometimes bordering on total idolatry. I suppose you could also throw in the side effects like being overly sensitive, intolerant, or just generally aggressive... maybe.🤔

wearyowl29 said:First you say it has nothing to do with the ego, and then you say it does—pick a side!😉

My friend, you’ll come to realize all of this on your own eventually, as everything tends to unfold exactly when it's meant to, don't you think? 👍

cosmictinker21 said:

wearyowl29 Asks:
First you say it’s not about your ego, and then suddenly it totally is... pick a side...😉

I’m not entirely sure if slyfox23 was making a distinction between the classic concept of the ego—you know, as self-knowledge, the actual sense of self, or just basic self-awareness—and that other version of the ego. That’s the one everyone talks about when they mean selfishness, greed, or being full of oneself... that constant need to belittle others, act superior, or hunt for praise and validation, sometimes bordering on total idolatry. I suppose you could also throw in the side effects like being overly sensitive, intolerant, or just generally aggressive... maybe.🤔

The ego and reason are essentially two sides of the same coin, which naturally means they carry both their virtues and their flaws together.

Based on your username, I’m assuming you’re a guy. 😁

slyfox23 said:The ego and reason are essentially two sides of the same coin, which naturally means they carry both their virtues and their flaws together.

Based on your username, I’m assuming you’re a guy. 😁

The real question is what you actually mean when you say "ego." Are we talking about the first definition or the second one, huh?

Because if you're defining ego as pure egocentrism, selfishness, or vanity, then you aren't necessarily correct. Those traits stem from the deepest parts of a personality; they’re often unconscious, making them pretty much impossible to catch through rational detection, cognitive processing, or any kind of logical insight and correction. But, if you're defining ego as self-awareness, then obviously that’s inextricably linked to reason... which doesn't inherently have a "bad side" in and of itself.

You still seem to be missing the point that gratitude is an incredibly active process. It isn't just some passive emotional vibe; it's a conscious acceptance of that feeling and a deliberate decision to express that thanks to whoever did the good deed. Those are the fundamental pillars of gratitude. You can't truly feel grateful without being aware that you *are* feeling it and recognizing it as your response to someone's kindness. Maybe try looking into the nuances a bit more instead of just chasing this intense urge to pivot toward spirituality while ignoring everything that exists outside your own desires. Your stance on the concept of gratitude is pretty rigid and misses several key components... you're essentially blinding yourself to certain truths. Try opening your mind and actually learning. Without the egocentrism. When there's more to the story, try to see it too...

cosmictinker21 said:The real question is what you actually mean when you say "ego." Are we talking about the first definition or the second one, huh?

Because if you're defining ego as pure egocentrism, selfishness, or vanity, then you aren't necessarily correct. Those traits stem from the deepest parts of a personality; they’re often unconscious, making them pretty much impossible to catch through rational detection, cognitive processing, or any kind of logical insight and correction. But, if you're defining ego as self-awareness, then obviously that’s inextricably linked to reason... which doesn't inherently have a "bad side" in and of itself.

You still seem to be missing the point that gratitude is an incredibly active process. It isn't just some passive emotional vibe; it's a conscious acceptance of that feeling and a deliberate decision to express that thanks to whoever did the good deed. Those are the fundamental pillars of gratitude. You can't truly feel grateful without being aware that you *are* feeling it and recognizing it as your response to someone's kindness. Maybe try looking into the nuances a bit more instead of just chasing this intense urge to pivot toward spirituality while ignoring everything that exists outside your own desires. Your stance on the concept of gratitude is pretty rigid and misses several key components... you're essentially blinding yourself to certain truths. Try opening your mind and actually learning. Without the egocentrism. When there's more to the story, try to see it too...

None of this would even exist if it weren't for the ego and the intellect. In truth, perhaps none of it exists at all, because we are the ones constructing it—the ego, the mind, the self. Every single one of us constructs our own version of truth and our own sense of self. Consciousness is also something we each create, and for each individual, that creation becomes their "reality."

I wonder why you assume I have this intense longing or that I am somehow lacking in understanding? Before I realized everything I know now, I was one of those strictly literal, "what you see is what you get" types of people. I didn't have any such desires, nor did I believe that anything existed beyond what was exact, provable, visible, and tangible; in fact, I used to find the idea of anything else completely impossible and unacceptable.

Then, life happened, and I experienced death—literally, I was dead. When I woke up, the intensity of it meant I was no longer the person I had been just the day before. During that window of time when I was physically deceased, I realized everything that has fundamentally changed me from the roots up.

I was given exactly what I needed to receive, and I realized exactly what I was meant to realize. That is precisely why it is so difficult to understand and discuss these things with others; everyone has their own unique realizations, and there is no requirement for them to align with mine. Because of that, I don't think it's fair to say someone is "lacking" or needs to struggle to "perceive" something, or that they are incapable of understanding. I can say with absolute certainty—unless you have undergone a similar experience to mine—that you may not be able to grasp what I am describing. You have your own experiences, which I respect and find interesting; I am certainly not trying to impose my experiences as the sole truth or as something final.

It feels as though you are attempting to rationalize something that simply cannot be subject to rationalization.

Yes, I am grateful for everything, I am grateful to you, and I am genuinely interested in the experiences of others. What I survived isn't even the point, because that which I truly am does not die—to suggest otherwise would imply that everything dies, which simply isn't possible. Please don't assume that I have mastered gratitude just because I am still alive.

I am certain that I haven't realized everything yet, but I am equally certain that I will, whenever the time is right.

I'm not claiming to be right; I am simply sharing my own journey.

Look, if you didn't have an ego and a sense of reason (though you still haven't actually defined what you mean by "ego" in this context), you wouldn't be sitting here typing this out. You wouldn't even be aware that you’ve experienced anything at all. You wouldn't be able to process life in a way that allows you to talk about it here. You'd just be reacting to stimuli purely by reflex, kind of like a worm or a clam...

I phrased that poorly—"trapped"—my apologies for being so blunt. I'm also sorry that you aren't able to grasp or accept the reality that we are composed of that specific slice of matter/energy/whatever it is that gives us the genetic and biological capacity to possess self-awareness and awareness of our surroundings. A lot of people don't feel the need to seek out knowledge, especially the "how things work" kind of deep dive, because it requires so much effort, energy, contemplation, and time... it goes on and on...

As for those near-death experiences and similar events, yeah, I've been through one and survived, along with a few other things. But honestly, it just reinforced my feeling that I still have a massive amount of learning left to do. Besides, even worms have those genetic predispositions, so why not make use of them? Good luck with your continued investigation into the nature of life...🙂 🙂

slyfox23 said:My friend, you’ll come to realize all of this on your own eventually, as everything tends to unfold exactly when it's meant to, don't you think? 👍

You really think you get it?

You aren't even walking in my shoes—honestly, you don't even know what size I wear...

The ego represents everything I consciously experience and how I choose to present myself within this dimension—this version of me existing in this physical realm, defined by logic and precision, whether that persona I project toward this material world happens to be perceived as good or bad.

wearyowl29 said:You really think you get it?

You aren't even walking in my shoes—honestly, you don't even know what size I wear...

No, I really don't think there's much point in me repeating myself since I feel like I've already covered just about everything, haven't I? And honestly, if my previous comments came across as being condescending or arrogant, I truly am sorry—that definitely wasn't my intention at all.

wearyowl29 said:You really think you get it?

You aren't even walking in my shoes—honestly, you don't even know what size I wear...

Would you be so kind as to share the details with me? I find myself genuinely curious and would love to hear more about it, if you don't mind!

Our ego is basically our survival kit, but there’s a massive catch: we often mistake that drive to survive as a free pass to tear down everything in our path.

Look, the ego serves a purpose, sure. But things go sideways the moment we let it run wild. We get tunnel vision and can't see past our own reflection. Honestly, very few people actually manage to tuck their ego away into a tiny little matchbox, because almost everything we interact with in this world just feeds that sense of self.

I've noticed that people who practice genuine gratitude tend to keep their ego on a much shorter leash—some more successfully than others. They've realized, or are at least trying to grasp, that they aren't actually pulling all the strings in their lives and that there's usually a deeper reason behind the chaos.

When things go right, you give thanks. When things go south? Well, you give thanks that it wasn't a total disaster, or you take the hit as a necessary lesson learned.

I couldn't agree more with everything you've laid out here. 👍
Before I found myself navigating the exact situation I described above, I was actually going through an incredibly destructive period myself—specifically, a phase defined by intense self-sabotage. Looking back, I truly believe that my downward spiral happened precisely because of that underlying mindset.

cosmictinker21 said:Look, if you didn't have an ego and a sense of reason (though you still haven't actually defined what you mean by "ego" in this context), you wouldn't be sitting here typing this out. You wouldn't even be aware that you’ve experienced anything at all. You wouldn't be able to process life in a way that allows you to talk about it here. You'd just be reacting to stimuli purely by reflex, kind of like a worm or a clam...

I phrased that poorly—"trapped"—my apologies for being so blunt. I'm also sorry that you aren't able to grasp or accept the reality that we are composed of that specific slice of matter/energy/whatever it is that gives us the genetic and biological capacity to possess self-awareness and awareness of our surroundings. A lot of people don't feel the need to seek out knowledge, especially the "how things work" kind of deep dive, because it requires so much effort, energy, contemplation, and time... it goes on and on...

As for those near-death experiences and similar events, yeah, I've been through one and survived, along with a few other things. But honestly, it just reinforced my feeling that I still have a massive amount of learning left to do. Besides, even worms have those genetic predispositions, so why not make use of them? Good luck with your continued investigation into the nature of life...🙂 🙂

Hmm. Spent a lot of time working with dementia and Alzheimer's patients. My former mother-in-law has Alzheimer's—saw her just yesterday.
She doesn't recognize me. Has zero clue who I am. It's a wild disease. The ego seems to hang on even when the logic, the memory, and the thought process are totally gone. Just... gone.

She asked my age. When I told her, she looked shocked, like, "I don't feel that old at all." 76 years old? She was like, "Oh man, that's ancient."

The point is... even though she had coffee this morning, she doesn't remember it. But the second I mention she had coffee earlier, she gets pissed and insists she definitely didn't. 🤣

Logic is dead. So is that ego refusing to be messed with?
Yeah, people could argue it's just the disease and I'm not a perfect case study, but it's worth looking into. Fascinating stuff.

slyfox23 said:The ego represents everything I consciously experience and how I choose to present myself within this dimension—this version of me existing in this physical realm, defined by logic and precision, whether that persona I project toward this material world happens to be perceived as good or bad.

So, if you’re feeling gratitude and you actually realize it's gratitude... if you understand exactly why it surfaced, and then you lean into it by intentionally cultivating a sense of goodness, and finally manifest that outward to show thanks... well, that’s a conscious act. It’s inherently tied to your entire existence, because self-awareness is baked into the very core of being human (barring some extreme circumstances involving severe illness or specific neurological conditions). We aren't perfect, obviously, but we possess our own kind of wholeness, an integrity born from the necessity of our constituent parts. Otherwise, we wouldn't be *Homo sapiens* at all...

Unfortunately, with Alzheimer's and certain other forms of dementia, we see this non-congruent tissue degeneration. It’s not uniform; different trajectories, nuclei, and centers get hit at different rates. Usually, it starts with the cortex—which basically governs consciousness. This means people remain aware of their own existence for quite a while... they know they're there. But gradually, those finer details of the past start slipping away. And those details are essentially the foundation you need to prove your own ego-status in the moment. A woman might know she exists and that *this* is the present moment, but she can't really anchor herself in an objective context anymore. Her observations and associations—the very things needed to explain what she's seeing—are slowed down, defective, or just gone entirely. If the part of the cortex responsible for recent memories is hit, which happens all the time, then the actual mechanism for encoding information is broken. The immediate, working memory fails. You lose the ability to process what you perceive, to deposit it into primary memory, let alone move it into secondary or tertiary stages—those deeply ingrained, "learned" memories, like knowing how to count or childhood recollections reinforced by a lifetime of repetition. As the physical material degrades, the structure and function follow suit. In this scenario, the "ego" is nothing more than a failing mental construct. Our true, total ego is actually scattered across various parts of the brain...

Maher, spot on. Thanks for breaking that down. 👍

Henry Edwards78 said:Gratitude is a powerful thing... if more people actually practiced it, life on this planet would be a much better place to exist..

I’ve always been fond of this particular Quinn from the book Secret by Rhonda Byrne:

''For whoever is grateful, shall receive even more and overflow.
But those who are not grateful, will lose even what they currently possess.''

When I first started following *The Secret*, I experienced an instant healing. I had a dream where a massive scar on my left hand from when I was a kid just faded away. When I woke up and checked, the physical mark was gone, and that heavy, traumatic memory felt neutralized too. A little over a month later, after raising my consciousness to 93 degrees—which aligns with the concept of Agape (Love)—I'm finally seeing the fruits of it. Love, wealth, peace, freedom, and solid health. Just grateful for the blessings.

In a psychological sense, I truly believe there is a profound wellness in periodically pausing to look inward and reflect on what we owe to others or to the universe at large—whether that gratitude is directed toward God, the gods, ancestral spirits, specific individuals, our families, the natural world, the laws of physics, or even just the simple reality of gravity 🙂 or whatever else might move us. Now, I don't mean this in some naive, wide-eyed way; one cannot be sincerely grateful for absolutely everything. It’s healthy because, frankly, we tend to take so much for granted. When we actually stop to realize how many circumstances had to align perfectly—through sheer cosmic coincidence, the steady hand of natural law, or the kindness of strangers—to grant us our current lives, it becomes much easier to cultivate a sense of respect for the things we usually overlook. For instance, Jewish Kabbalists (and indeed Orthodox Jews in general) recite daily blessings during specific actions to infuse those moments with spirit, acknowledging their dependence on a higher power as they perceive it. I would argue that maintaining this sense of being dependent on something greater isn't a weakness; quite the contrary, it serves as an excellent remedy for the rampant consumerism and narcissism we see today. Even when life feels particularly bleak, if one sits down to objectively examine all the variables at play, you can often find small glimmers of light, which can spark a spontaneous feeling of gratitude. Whether someone believes in God or several gods is almost secondary; one can feel thankful to something abstract and impersonal without needing to address a specific entity. There are plenty of atheists and humanists who practice a sort of "daily gratitude inventory" to build emotional resilience and strengthen that Stoic part of the self that seeks peace by accepting reality as it is. The core idea here is the ATTITUDE, rather than the specific ritual or practice itself. It can be tailored to fit anyone's worldview or value system. It could manifest as something incredibly "hippie-fluffy" and New Age, or it could be strictly secular or traditionally religious—whatever suits the individual. We see historical precedents for this among atheists too, such as the Epicureans, who used daily reflections to acknowledge the small, good things they often took for granted (acts which, if unacknowledged, tend to lose their value). While it sounds like something reserved for theistic traditions, history shows us that both secular and pagan people have engaged in similar practices. Our ancient pagan ancestors, for example, held rituals of thanks to Zeus, Hades, and other deities for everything from successful harvests and fair weather to general health and prosperity. Honestly, it is difficult to find any tradition—be it monotheistic, polytheistic, pantheistic, occult, or purely secular—where the concept of ritualized gratitude doesn't play some role, whether explicitly or implicitly.

Honestly, you just gotta be grateful for everything. Everything is a choice, right? From who your parents are to the exact millisecond you were born, even the country you live in or what planet we're stuck on. It's all part of the deal. So yeah, just be thankful for it all.

Thanks 🙂

Gratitude is just that feeling where you don't really have the words, even though you're feeling everything.