Hilderik - Feedback for the Admins

Good grief, please don't hit him with a permanent ban; just give the guy some space to cool off. He’s actually been a fantastic member of this community.

He has never once engaged in hate speech. For instance, living in Venice, he was naturally concerned about the rise of nationalist factions taking power in Mexico, and he wrote quite a bit on the subject of Mexico—but always in the most civilized, human way possible. Not a single offensive post, not toward anyone. Plus, he’s a conservative, if you need that for context.

I think I understand why being labeled as spreading hate speech upset him, since he feels he’s just telling the truth. His post was meant to be sarcastic, which is the same style he uses over at Chatterbox. In my opinion, his Ego might have been a bit off, but I feel like a permanent ban would be an even bigger mistake for someone as provoked as Hilderik right now.

I know you guys aren't exactly fans of legalistic arguments here, especially coming from someone who is also part of a faction, but honestly, I didn't have a more respectable username available, so there it is.

ps
As for Hilderik—forget about the ban. You came here to argue about a warning, not to act like a total loose cannon. Besides, asking for a permaban is just cowardly; it's such a passive-aggressive, drama queen move. ☕

I’m jumping in here to add a few thoughts to this comment. Honestly, I feel bad that the guy even bothered posting in that dumpster fire—it’s no wonder he ended up getting banned in the end.

As for where he's coming from, his background doesn't really matter. You’ve got plenty of non-brainwashed leftists who push back against any kind of fascism, including what we're seeing play out right now. I know a few of them personally. The real issue is that people are too fragmented; they don't even realize they're on the same side because there isn't a solid platform to bring everyone together and show that there's actually a huge crowd spanning the whole political spectrum.

Hopefully, Hilderik reaches out to me. He knows the deal. Catch you all later.

Jacob Williams said:I suppose I’ll jump in here with a few extra thoughts. It’s a bit unfortunate that our friend decided to post in that digital dumpster fire, since it ultimately led to him getting banned, I guess.

Regarding where he’s coming from politically, I honestly think it doesn't matter much. Even people who aren't strictly leftists can oppose any kind of fascism, including what we're seeing lately. I know a few such people. The real issue, maybe, is just that everyone seems so disconnected; they don't realize there are others like them out there because there isn't really a solid platform to bring together people from all sorts of different social and political backgrounds.

I'm hoping Hilderik might reach out to me. He usually knows the best way to handle things. Best wishes to everyone.

And regarding the whole "dumpster fire" topic—it might not be for the reasons you think. In the first part, I actually reported the post for hate speech; no excuses, no "buts," and certainly no smiley faces to soften the blow (you could compare it to Hilderik's post if you wanted). It wasn't deleted, nobody was penalized, and it didn't really stir up the discussion. So, I've mostly stopped reading. Plus, there's Woobie, of course—just thousands upon thousands of Woobie's posts. Honestly, both of you have kind of soured my view of things, each in your own unique way (not that I'm grouping you together, I guess).

Hilderik, though, doesn't actually use hate speech. I know him from Politics (where things can get pretty heated), and he just has this somewhat explosive way of writing—sort of a "drop a bomb, chase the gang" style. You can see it in his thread over in the Ban Corner. If you just read that, it's pretty clear that even someone labeled a "villain" would find his comment acceptable. His style stays within the forum's character, which I think is perfectly fine.

So, if he's being unfairly accused, it makes sense that he'd get upset, and I feel like that should probably be considered when deciding on his permanent status.

One more thing—this might be a radical idea, so bear with me (especially the admins): why don't we just take his word for it if he says his comment was misunderstood? He made a pretty decent argument about it in his own thread, after all.

Linda King said:The real issue here is the quality of this thread. Perhaps it isn't solely for the reason you imagine. I actually reported the first part of this discussion for hate speech—no caveats, no "ifs," no little smiley faces offered for context (just compare that to what Hilderik is doing here). Yet, the post wasn't deleted, nor was there any penalty, nor did it particularly disrupt the flow of the debate. That is why I have stopped reading. And then there is Woobie, of course—thousands upon thousands upon billions of Woobie’s posts. To be perfectly honest, both of you have become quite distasteful to me, though each in his own unique way (please don't think I am grouping you together in one single bucket).

Hilderik, however, does not employ hate speech; I know him from the Politics section—where things are known to truly heat up—and he simply possesses a somewhat more explosive writing style ("drop a bomb, chase the gang"), which is evident even in his thread over at the Ban Corner. If you read just that, it becomes clear that his comment could easily be viewed as the work of a "hero rather than a villain." It isn't outside the bounds of forum character, which is perfectly acceptable.

And now, if he is being unjustly accused, is it not only natural that he would lose his temper? Surely that ought to be taken into account when deciding on his permanent status.

One more thing—a somewhat radical idea, I know... bear with me (this goes to the admins): Why shouldn't we simply believe him if he claims his comment was misunderstood? He argued his case quite effectively in his own thread, after all.

I have been moderating that specific PDF for some time now, so I believe I am in a position to offer an opinion.
I won't delve into the disciplinary record Hilderik has accumulated; that is a judgment left to the long-term moderators.
However, Hilderik requested the permanent status himself, and right now, that sounds suspiciously like blackmail—either the moderation follows his whims, or he takes his belongings and leaves. Because he is furious. It is a display of extreme maturity, clearly.
Incidentally, I don't believe Hilderik needs to be granted permanent status, nor should he be restricted from posting in that PDF, provided he isn't insulting others.
As for the thread you are calling trash—it was started when the COVID PDF first opened, and I recall discussions about whether such a thread should even exist. Those more experienced than I predicted very accurately what this topic could devolve into, which is the exact opposite of the standard of discourse we attempt to maintain in the COVID PDF.
We left it open to allow people to write as much as they pleased, providing a sort of pressure valve, with minimal moderation intended only to punish major infractions, insults, hate speech, and the like.
Given all of this, knowing that no one will punish him for expressing his views, Hilderik, as a regular contributor to the COVID PDF, can certainly choose to mind his vocabulary and the context in which he writes.
Regarding Woobie, who seems to be a thorn in many people's sides on the COVID PDF and beyond—since when have the problems on this forum been people who have enough time to write and sustain posts that are almost always coherent, on-topic, and even conciliatory in certain PDFs? It is obvious that those with opposing views find him irritating, just as we moderators find them even more so, but is having a contrary view—which might even be a minority opinion in some threads—a reason to punish a user, or to allow him to be insulted, labeled a paid troll, and subjected to other such filth? I think not.
They have the perfectly good option of ignoring him, which is an excellent way to completely resolve high-tension debates.
That is all from me.

Morgan Peterson said:I’ve been moderating that PDF for quite some time now, so I guess I might be in a position to offer a little insight, if you don't mind.
I think I’ll pass on weighing in on that mess Hilderik got caught up in. It feels like one of those things where you just have to look at the long-term outlook, I guess. Maybe it's better to just stay out of it for now.
Well, regarding Permu, I guess Hilderik was actually the one who asked for it, which honestly makes the whole thing feel a bit like blackmail now. It’s like, either the moderation follows his lead, or he just takes his little scraps and leaves. He's clearly lost his cool, which... yeah, seems pretty immature, I suppose.
By the way, I don't really think Hilderik needs to be given a permanent pass here, nor should we be looking to restrict him from posting on that PDF at all—unless, of course, he starts being disrespectful toward others.
Regarding that thread you all seem to think is total garbage—it actually got started right when the COVID document first went live, mostly because people were debating whether such a thing would even exist in the first place. I guess some of the more seasoned users here saw exactly where things were headed. They figured out pretty early on just how messy the discussion could get, which is honestly the exact opposite of the level of discourse we’re all trying to maintain over on the main pandemic file.
We decided to just let her be, really. I guess we wanted to give everyone a chance to vent and write as much as they want, almost like a pressure valve for all that energy. We figured we’d keep the moderation pretty light-handed—you know, only stepping in for the heavy stuff, like major violations, outright insults, or hate speech and things of that nature.
Given everything we know—especially since it seems like nobody is actually going to hold him accountable for the views he's pushing—I guess Hilderik, being such a regular fixture in the Corona PDF threads, could probably just be a little more mindful of his word choice and the general context of what he's saying. Maybe just watch the tone a bit?
Regarding the whole situation with Woobij—who seems to be a bit of a thorn in everyone's side lately, especially over on the Corona PDF and the wider threads—I’ve been thinking about something. Since when did this forum become a place where people are penalized just because they actually have the spare time to sit down and write out coherent, on-topic, and even relatively peaceful posts? I mean, it’s pretty obvious that those who disagree with him are getting worked up, and I suppose we mods probably get on their nerves just as much, too. But it makes me wonder... is having a different opinion, or even being in the minority on certain topics, really a valid reason to punish someone? Should we just let people get insulted, called a paid troll, or subjected to all sorts of other nasty comments? Personally, I don't think so.
They really have this wonderful option to just ignore things, which I think is honestly great. It’s such a solid way to completely sidestep those high-tension arguments, I guess. Maybe it's the best approach for keeping things calm.
That’s pretty much all I have to say for now, I guess.

Yeah, I know, it wasn't exactly my most mature moment—I actually mentioned that myself earlier. And honestly, I doubt they’re going to back down on demanding that permanent ban until their record is cleared of what they feel is an unfair strike. People can be just like that sometimes, nothing too out of the ordinary, I guess. Personally, I think the strike was a mistake. It seems reasonable enough to accept their explanation and just look past the heated tone they used over in Ban Corner. That said, it's pretty obvious they really stepped in it, so the final call is definitely up to you guys. I'd just suggest trying to keep a cool head while you re-examine that controversial post.

By the way, I finally tracked down that post I was telling you about in the quote section:

ColdHearted said:Take a look at this post
And yeah, I suppose Hitler was fighting against those same kinds of structures, though he didn't exactly succeed. It actually took me quite a while to wrap my head around what drove him to harbor such intense hatred. But looking at things now, it’s all so obvious. I honestly fear that the battle was already lost back in '45; maybe what we're seeing today is just the final, lingering struggle.

It was deleted—honestly, it had been sitting there for way too long anyway. I guess we all just need to be a bit more careful with those kinds of posts in the future. It’s probably best to just expect that sort of thing to happen, especially since the whole topic is centered around conspiracy theories.
I suppose that’s actually hate speech rather than just saying "hero instead of villain" with a smiley face. I really wouldn't want to go around making unfair accusations against anyone, but honestly, that post sat there unaddressed for quite a while. Even after it was reported, it seemed like it stayed up—at least in my estimation, since there were several mods on the thread and plenty of other users around too.

Regarding A woobie—it feels like the main issue is just how much they post. They tend to overproduce content, which can really suffocate a discussion thread. I guess it might be better now, though I honestly have no clue. Still, I feel like there isn't much you guys can actually do about it. They have the right to post, and as far as I can tell, they aren't breaking any rules. Even if they do drag things out sometimes and become incredibly tedious, well, I suppose that’s allowed too. Everyone has that right.

I’m fairly certain that none of you would actually enjoy having some anonymous internet troll giggling while sending death threats your way—so, frankly, I’m a bit surprised it's taking this long for everyone to grasp why I had to issue such a heavy-handed penalty for that specific post.

As far as I’m concerned, the user in question is more than welcome to return to the forum once they've served a one-week cooling-off period. After that, the ball is entirely in their court.