HPV vaccine discussion

Lately, there’s been a ton of talk about HPV vaccines—basically how they could seriously slash the risk of cervical cancer down the line.

Look, I totally see this as a massive win, especially with what two companies—GlaxoSmithKline with Cervarix and Merck & Co. with Gardasil—have pulled off so far (as far as I know, anyway)... but I also get why some people are feeling skeptical.

Anyway, here are the links: gardasil and cervarix

So, there are a few layers to this controversy:

1) Is giving out an HPV vaccine going to encourage risky, unprotected sex?
Personally, I don't think so. 😎 I don't know anyone besides Megan Peterson87 who isn't already stressed out about HPV. Plus, in today's world, the fear of HIV is way more intense than the fear of HPV, so I doubt we'll see a huge spike in unprotected sex just because women have this protection against HPV. We really should be worrying more about the people who think "HIV only happens to other people" and wouldn't even know what HPV is if it hit them in the face...

2) Will the vaccine make people skip their Pap tests? Okay, now *that* actually scares me a little. Even though I don't doubt the scientists at GlaxoSmithKline or Merck & Co. ( 😁 ), shit happens—we have to be realistic. If a vaccine is 99% effective, there’s still that 1% where it just WON'T work. So, you go out, pay a fortune for the shot, they tell you it lasts five years, you skip your Pap test, end up with cervical cancer, and... well. If you had gone for the Pap, maybe it would've been caught early. How are we going to convince women who spent all that money on this vaccine (which leads to point 3) to still show up for their regular screenings? Of course, I realize you can get cancer without HPV too, and there are certain types of papillomavirus that neither of these vaccines covers, but it's still a real issue...

3) It’s going to be expensive. Like, outrageously expensive. I mean, Merck & Co. is looking at a price tag of $500-$900 per dose, which is insane... that means only a tiny fraction of people globally will actually be able to afford it. Don't hold your breath waiting for the government to pick up the tab, either—they won't. Maybe if the price dropped by a hundred times, but let's be real, that's not happening for at least another 20 or 30 years. Would you honestly drop that much cash on something that *might* reduce your chance of catching a nasty virus that *might* give you cancer—something you could potentially catch "in time" just by getting regular checkups?

Man, look at this original post 🙄

a) nah, I don't think anyone's being irresponsible here—it’s more about whether you're vaccinated or not

b) honestly, same thing as my first answer

c) if we're talking constant vs. inconsistent, I wouldn't really separate those amounts... and I'm not totally sure on this one right now. Probably not, because even with HPV, just like with HIV, a condom isn't some kind of perfect shield

you owe me a beer tomorrow for answering your thread so it doesn't just sink into oblivion😁

Is that exclusively for women?
Am I being ridiculous for asking?

placidranger said:is that just for women?
is that a dumb question?

It’s not a dumb question at all—from what I’ve gathered, it looks like they're only giving it to women. Don't ask me why, though... as far as I can tell, it's because women are the ones who can actually develop serious issues from HPV, whereas guys mostly just carry it around without much happening... 😁

there might be some other reason behind it too, I just don't know for sure...

Rachel Brooks63 said:The point being made is that women are the ones who can actually develop serious health issues from HPV, whereas men just act as carriers...😁

And what about when they end up with those white, cluster-like genital warts? That’s nothing, apparently?

a) and b) I honestly think everything will go just like it always has
c) would you personally pay for something like this?
I actually love investing in stuff like this! Even though I don't have a direct need for it right now—but hey, you can never say never 😬!
I’d happily pay for my daughters to have access to it at their doctor's offices right away

Do I get a free beer out of this too?

I mean, does that even make sense? Like, I’m the one footing the bill for the vaccine anyway, right?

And honestly, if they're only offering it to women, isn't that basically just discrimination?

I mean, if you compare it to how brutal cervical cancer can be—and I hate even having to say that, but seriously—it’s not exactly a high bar...

But that’s beside the point. Both companies designed their vaccines EXCLUSIVELY for women. We don't actually know what their reasoning is behind that, so we're just left guessing—unless someone here actually knows the real reason, please let us know

Rachel Brooks63 said:But that’s not really the point here. Both companies designed this vaccine EXCLUSIVELY for women. We don't actually know their specific reasoning behind it—we can only guess (unless someone out there knows the real reason and wants to share!)

It's probably because the consequences are much more severe for women, so there's a way higher likelihood they'll be willing to spend the money on it!

Just speaking my truth here:

1) Will rolling out the HPV vaccine encourage people to engage in more unprotected sex?
No way. 😬
2) Is providing this vaccine going to lead to fewer people getting their regular Pap smears?
Not happening. Even if I were vaccinated, I’d still be showing up for my checkups, obviously.
But wait, we need to talk about question number three ->
3) The cost is going to be insane. Absolutely predatory. We're looking at somewhere between $500 and $900 per dose.
Jeez. Holy mother of god... 😲 Look, if I had an extra few thousand dollars just sitting around in my bank account, I'd get the shot too.

Rachel Brooks63 said:I don't know anyone besides Megan Peterson87 who wouldn't lose their mind over the fear of HPV.

Look, I’m calling out the moderator here—please stop allowing these massive generalizations, dangerous trivializations, and just plain retarded half-jokes.

I’m more worried about actual, dangerous STDs. I mean, basically every woman catches HPV after her first time anyway.
Then again, clearly not everyone is born with a functioning brain.

Megan Peterson87 said:I’m trying to warn people about some of the more dangerous STIs. Besides, basically every woman ends up with HPV at some point after her first sexual encounter.

Hmm... let's not get carried away here.🙂
A doctor once told me—back when I actually suggested bringing
my boyfriend in for testing because it was pretty obvious I had caught
HPV from him: "Why even bother testing him if he's never
had any genital warts? It doesn't matter who gave what to whom; if he
gets it but has a strong immune system, his body will just clear the virus out."

That was honestly the last time I ever stepped foot in her office.

bluejeans said:Look, let’s not get carried away here... 🙂
I had this one doctor tell me—this was back when I actually suggested bringing
my boyfriend in for testing because it was super obvious I'd caught
HPV from him: "Why even bother testing him if he's never
had warts? It doesn't matter who gave what to whom, and if he
gets it but stays healthy with a good immune system, he'll just flush the virus out."

That was the last time I ever set foot in her office.

Estimates suggest that at least 80-100% of young women between 18 and 25 come into contact with this virus through sexual activity.

Source: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hpv-infection/symptoms-causes/syc-20369525

edited by Rachel Brooks63. Megan Peterson87's sex life is off-topic here.
And honestly, if you’re acting like a journalist (if I remember correctly), you really should know how unreliable the internet can be as a source... there are official sites out there, but they don't always sit well with people who just want quick answers... anyway, just "being in contact" isn't the same thing as actually getting infected. It's like saying being in contact with someone who has HIV is the same as becoming HIV positive. It's just not.
On the same websites, you'll see some claims that maybe 5-20% of people carry HPV, which means those numbers are just estimates—and they're obviously worlds apart from that 80% figure.
To actually get infected, you need a micro-tear or a little scratch, and both people have to be unprotected (direct mucosal contact or fluids) and the other person has to be positive... basically, if someone just rips through you without any protection and you don't even know them.

As for the vaccine, it's only going to target the specific strains that pose the highest risk for cervical cancer...

Can we please, please just get back to talking about the HPV vaccine? I feel like we’re getting way too bogged down in these broad debates about how infection happens or how it spreads—that’s really not what this thread is meant for here...

Thanks...

Rachel Brooks63 said:Can we please get back to discussing the HPV vaccine? I think we should skip the general debates about infection risks and transmission methods. That really isn't what this thread is about...

Thanks...

It might not be the main topic, but people clearly don't understand how transmission works. Which is more important right now: understanding how you actually contract it, or having hypothetical discussions about the vaccine?

Alright, let’s look at the math here...
There are about 78 types of papillomavirus out there (though some say even more), and 9 of them are considered high-risk.

So, logically, if a girl gets exposed during her first sexual encounter, she picks up one of those. That would mean roughly 1 in 9 girls—about 12%—would be carrying a high-risk strain right off the bat just from having sex once... which is crazy when you consider how many different types people swap back and forth throughout their lives. I guess it makes you wonder if they’re basically just walking around with a biological disaster zone inside them.

Sure, wipe some stuff out... but you're just clearing out misinformation too, I guess.

Look, if this is way too much text or if I’m totally out of line for posting this here, just let me know. Anyway, here’s a copy-paste from some site that goes over some info regarding HPV:

Genital warts. Honestly, just hearing about them makes my skin crawl. It’s one of those things that people try to act like isn't a big deal, but it really is a massive headache. Whether it's the HPV strain or whatever else is going around, it's just... ugh. I guess it's just part of life now, but still. Such a mess.
So, look, genital warts aren't just some random skin thing—they’re viral. It’s basically clusters of infected cells on your skin or mucosal tissue. And honestly, it gets messy because these things actually trigger abnormal blood vessel growth just to feed themselves. I guess that's how they stay alive. The whole mess is caused by HPV. They've officially identified 78 different types so far, though I heard there might be over 100 out there. It’s not like they're all the same, either. Different strains cause different kinds of warts. Some are way more aggressive than others, some spread faster through your skin, and some have this scary potential to turn malignant. It also seems like how fast they grow or spread depends a lot on whatever kind of shape your immune system is in. Just one of those things, I suppose.
So, here’s the thing about HPV—it doesn't just pick one spot. It attacks basically any squamous epithelium on the body. We're talking the mouth, the tongue, the vocal cords, the esophagus, eyelids, the anus... it's everywhere. And I was thinking about smokers, too. You know how smoking creates those "patches" where the squamous epithelium starts replacing the normal cylindrical or ciliated epithelium in the bronchi? Well, there's this theory floating around that HPV might actually be playing a role in how bronchial carcinoma develops in smokers. I guess it's possible, maybe. It's worth looking into.
So, I was looking into this, and apparently, research suggests that maybe 80 to 100% of women between the ages of 18 and 25 end up coming into contact with HPV. That sounds insane, right? But then they say only about 30% actually develop symptoms. I guess the reason for that gap is this whole phenomenon of spontaneous clearance—basically, your body just heals itself naturally. It all seems to depend on how strong your immune system is at the time. If you're dealing with the low-risk types (like 6, 11, 41, 43, or 44), you get genital warts, which are obviously contagious through sex. But the high-risk types (16, 18, 31, 35, 39, 45, 51, 52, 56) are the real problem. They can be dangerous because they cause abnormalities in the cervical epithelium without showing any actual symptoms at all. It’s scary stuff. A chronic HPV infection can bump up the risk of cervical cancer by 65 times, and if we're talking about those oncogenic high-risk types, that risk jumps by 130 times! Still, I suppose most women who test positive won't actually deal with warts or dysplasia. Maybe.
There’s a real risk of passing an infection to a baby during childbirth. It usually shows up as issues with the eyelids or the vocal cords—basically those typical spots where HPV likes to settle in. I guess that's just how it goes.
So, people say genital warts mostly spread through direct sexual contact, though I guess you can't totally rule out other ways either—like using someone else's razor or maybe getting it through shaving. It's not like they're passed through blood transfusions or some kind of respiratory droplet thing, though. To actually catch an HPV infection, there are two things that have to happen first:
So, I was thinking about those tiny micro-traumas to the mucous membranes—you know, those supposed "entry points"—and... I don't know. It just seems like one of those things people obsess over. Maybe it matters, maybe it doesn't, but it feels like we're always looking for a reason to worry about how stuff gets in. I guess it's worth considering, but I'm not entirely convinced it's the huge deal everyone makes it out to be.
Direct contact between skin or mucous membranes and someone else's infected skin or bodily fluids. I guess that's how it happens.
The number of people catching HPV is just climbing and climbing. I don't know, different studies seem to put the infection rate somewhere between 5% and 20%, which is pretty wild. Everyone keeps pointing the finger at promiscuity as the main reason this thing is spreading so fast lately. It’s actually a huge deal, though, because it's been proven that certain types of papillomavirus can basically mess with the genome of epithelial cells. That's what leads to things like cervical, vulvar, penile, or even throat cancer. It's scary stuff.
So, most HPV strains are basically invisible to the immune system. It’s because they block those TAP1 and TAP2 molecules—you know, the ones responsible for hauling viral epitopes over to the MHC molecules. If those epitopes aren't presented alongside the MHC molecules, the immune system just can't flag the cell as being infected by HPV. I guess it's pretty much the same way tumor cells dodge immune surveillance too. Just one big evasion tactic.
So, if you're looking at how they actually diagnose condylomas, it’s not just one simple thing. I guess it usually comes down to a physical exam, maybe a colposcopy, or using some kind of magnification during the checkup. Then there's the standard stuff like a Pap smear, biopsies, and then testing the tissue or bodily fluids to figure out the specific virus typing. It's a whole process, I suppose.
Dealing with genital warts can be such a massive, exhausting grind—honestly, it’s a headache for both the patient and the doctor. I guess it just takes forever. You really have to be relentless about treating both partners at the same time, too. And you can't cut corners; you've got to use condoms strictly during the whole treatment process, and even for a few months after everything seems to be cleared up. It's just a long road.
I guess the best way to actually handle this is just physically "removing" every single visible wart and then doing some kind of thorough "scrubbing" of any suspicious areas, followed by whatever chemical or drug treatment they suggest.
There are a bunch of different ways to treat these things. Pretty much without exception, they all rely on either using high energy on the affected spots or basically using chemicals to destroy the infected cells.
When it comes to physical methods, you've got cryotherapy (freezing), thermal coagulation, electrocoagulation, radiofrequency vaporization, laser vaporization, or just plain old surgical excision. From what I can see, cryotherapy seems to have the worst results, while surgical excision is technically the most effective—but unfortunately, you can't really do that in most cases. All the coagulation methods seem about equally effective, though the vaporization techniques usually give the best results.
For therapy, they might also use cytostatics like podophyllin or Efudix 5% in a cream or ointment form.
Even though local interferon therapy sounds logical—since it’s supposed to stimulate TAP and MHC molecule expression—it hasn't really delivered the results people expected. Still, it's recommended as an add-on to one of those vaporization techniques.
The biggest wins in treating these come from combining methods, like vaporization plus cytostatics or vaporization plus interferon. Patients always ask me, "Wait, wouldn't vaporization + cytostatics + interferon be even better?" It makes sense, I guess, but from an immunology standpoint, it's actually the opposite. That triple combo isn't any more effective than just doing two at a time.
Early complications from treatment (doesn't matter which method you pick) are usually swelling, stinging when you pee, pain, or changes in vaginal discharge. Later on, you might deal with dryness during sex, or pain and tearing of the vulvar mucosa. All these issues should clear up within two or three months max after the procedure. Honestly, the laser vaporization technique seems to cause the fewest complications, and when they do happen, they aren't nearly as intense as the other methods.

Rachel Brooks63 said:Can we please get back to focusing on the HPV vaccine itself and skip all the general debates about how it spreads or how you might catch it? That really isn't what we're here to talk about...

Thanks!

I actually think a little clarity on "how HPV is contracted" would be super helpful too!
I saw some posts on this forum recently suggesting you could pick it up from showering, sitting on a toilet seat, or using a towel (honestly, wasn't the old rule always to be careful with shared towels anyway?)
Just purely for educational purposes!
Because otherwise, people end up thinking, "Well, what can I even do? It's everywhere, there's no avoiding it."
It’s kind of like hopping on a subway in the middle of winter and thinking, "Oh well, half the car is sneezing, I guess I'll just catch whatever they have tomorrow!"